Is it time to have the United Nations keep an eye on our elections?
The working title of this article used to be “Election 2006: Can Diebold Save the GOP?” but as more and more evidence mounts, that’s actually become a rhetorical question. The new question is will they, as increasing substantiation and public opinion seems to be favoring the forgone conclusion that they surely can.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Ray Ellis
I like JOM. Guys like him ensure that the Republicans don't have a prayer. By all means, keep spewing.
77 - Bill B
Arch,
All you have to do is google it and it just might open your mind. Some id laws have already been overturned by the courts. Oh wait, it's those pesky activist commie judges at it again.
Either way you conveniently dodged my other main point. Where are the lead repubs pushing the mandatory paper trail legislation? Arguably tampering with the programs is a much greater threat to our voting process than ids? Why swat flys when there's a nest worth of wasps feasting on your head?
Or is your support for id's simply lockstep, mindless hogwash?
78 - Bill B
Just to clarify, the id laws are being challenged as placing an undue burden on the poor, most of whom are white but with the black poor being disproportionately affected. This is where my reference to Jim Crow came from and in my opinion relevant.
If one prefers to discard the racial aspects, feel free to view it as another shining example of compassionate conservatism at work.
79 - JustOneMan
Here ya go boys, girls and Jeters....a little dose of reality...gee I feel like the left-wing-looney NostraDUMBASS from the middle east...
By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN
October 24, 2006 -- The latest polls show something very strange and quite encouraging is happening: The Republican base seems to be coming back home. This trend, only vaguely and dimly emerging from a variety of polls, suggests that a trend may be afoot that would deny the Democrats control of the House and the Senate.
With two weeks to go, anything can happen, but it is beginning to look poss- ible that the Democratic surge in the midterm elections may fall short of control in either House.
Here's the evidence:
* Pollsters Scott Rasmussen and John Zogby both show Republican Bob Corker gaining on Democratic Rep. Harold Ford Jr. in Tennessee, a must-win Senate seat for the Democrats. Zogby has Corker ahead by seven, while Rasmussen still shows a Ford edge of two points.
* Zogby reports a "turnaround" in New Jersey's Senate race with the GOP candidate Tom Kean taking the lead, a conclusion shared by some other public polls.
* Even though Sen. Jim Talent in Missouri is still under the magic 50 percent threshold for an incumbent, Rasmussen has him one point ahead and Zogby puts him three up. But unless he crests 50 percent, he'll probably still lose.
* Even though he is a lost cause, both Rasmussen and Zogby show Montana's Republican Sen. Conrad Burns cutting the gap and moving up.
* In Virginia, Republican embattled incumbent Sen. George Allen has now moved over the 50 percent threshold in his internal polls. (He'd been at 48 percent.)
Nationally, Zogby reports that the generic Democratic edge is down to four points, having been as high as nine two weeks ago.
None of these data indicates that the Republicans are out of trouble yet, but Democrats must win one of these three races: Ford in Tennessee, Menendez in New Jersey or Webb in Virginia. If not, they'll fall at least one seat short of controlling the Senate even if they succeed in knocking off all five vulnerable GOP incumbents in Montana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Missouri.
Why are Republican fortunes brightening?
The GOP base, alienated by the Foley scandal and the generally dismal record of this Congress, may have fast forwarded to the prospect of a Democratic victory and recoiled. They may have pondered the impact of a repeal of the Patriot Act, a ban on NSA wiretapping and a requirement of having an attorney present in terrorist questioning - and decided not to punish the country for the sins of the Republican leaders.
Bush's success in dealing with North Korea and his willingness to reassess tactics in Iraq could also play a part in the slight shift now underway.
Then, too, some in the Democratic Party must be finally realizing what a disastrous decision it was to put Howard Dean in as party chairman. The Democratic National Committee is broke and borrowing, while the GOP can afford to fund fully its key races.
Right now, we would have to say that control of Congress has gone from "lean Democrat" to a "toss-up." And that's progress for the Republicans.
Eileen McGann co-authored this column.
80 - JustOneMan
JustOneSmarter..[Edited]..as most Dumbocrats you fail to see that I give credit to my sources [Edited]
81 - JustOneMan
EDITOR - THE PC VERSION
unlike those that just retype others work and take credit for it - not that theres anything wrong with that
82 - Jet in Columbus
Bill B... Well put, and I have nothing more to add. Thanks for contributing.
83 - Jet in Columbus
Arch, this article has to do with happens after the voter decides, voter fraud has nothing what so ever to do with this.
af for your mindless, repetitive and automatic critisisms write your own article if you,re so wise and knowledgeable!. Otherwise you're just wasting time here.
Arch, one thing I won't fault you is your intellect. Too bad you use it for evil instead of good.
Can you dish it out but not take it?????
Write your own articles, express your own thoughts, and see what it's like on the other end of the stick...
84 - Jet in Columbus
Hmmmmm I just found an interesting article by Dick Morris and co-authored by Eileen McGann
In part it reads...
...The Gallup poll of Oct. 6-8 shows that, in the wake of the Foley scandal, the number of "white frequent churchgoers" who are planning to vote Republican has dropped from 58 percent to 47 percent since last month. The margin of their support for Republicans over Democrats, 26 percentage points in September, has entirely disappeared and the parties are tied among this core element of the Republican base...
...The Gallup poll also reveals that Democrats now win all eight major issues, including terrorism and morality. Asked which party would do more to enhance "moral standards in the country," Democrats now win 47 to 36! And on terrorism, Democrats now have a 47-to-42-percent advantage....
...According to the latest Fox News poll, 61 percent of voters believe that Hastert knew about the Foley affair early on and did nothing to stop it...
...With this kind of defection, Republican Sens. Mike DeWine (Ohio), Conrad Burns (Mont.), Rick Santorum (Pa.), Jim Talent (Mo.) and Lincoln Chaffee (R.I.) seem likely to be gone. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist's (R-Tenn.) seat seems likely to go to Rep. Harold Ford (D-Tenn.). And Sen. George Allen (R-Va.) may also be on his way out. In New Jersey, after trailing Tom Kean Jr. for most of September, Sen. Robert Menendez (D) seems to have moved out to a small lead that will probably grow...
For the rest of this INTERESTING article click anywhere in the colored section.
Thanks Just One Man [Edited] for recomending this writer in your comment 79! You're sweet to bring it to my attention!
85 - Jet in Columbus
I mean if you can't trust and her Eileen McGann and her FamilySecurityMatters.org as an unbiased news source, who can you trust?
86 - Baronius
- In December 2000, the US total public debt outstanding was $5.66 trillion. In July 2006, the most recent published data, the US total public debt outstanding was $8.44 trillion. Depending on the price deflator you use, about 40% of the increase was inflationary. $8.44 trillion is a lot of money, but it’s not $43 trillion.
(I think the numbers that you’re using are GAO’s estimated fiscal exposures. The most recent numbers show an increase from 2000 to 2005 of $26 trillion. $20.7 trillion of this increase is Medicare. If you want to argue that the Democrats will drastically cut Medicare, feel free. Note that the numbers are estimates of net present value of projected commitments based on current laws.)
- “The manufacturers, instead of admitting there were problems, are blaming human errors such as forgetting to distribute materials necessary to run the machines and insufficient memory cards to count the votes.” Considering that Maryland officials did forget to distribute the memory cards, and in some cases failed to even show up, it’s hard to see how Diebold is at fault.
- It’s a good thing you didn’t mention the Princeton University or Carnegie-Mellon University studies, because you don’t link to any. The articles that you do link to have quotes from teachers. So those really aren’t university studies, are they? Similarly, the US Federal Election Assistance Commission article quotes a few former officials, but cites no specific studies. I didn't bother checking your other links.
- Are this year’s Ohio Republican campaigns really focusing on freedom fries and flag burning?
- I’m glad you consider your article to be intelligent, but it’s a bit unseemly to mention it so often. Especially since your article revolves around insinuations of a GOP / Diebold conspiracy that you can’t support. “Oh, did I mention that Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell coincidentally was George Bush’s 2004 Presidential campaign co-chairman?” Yes, you just did. Why did you mention it? If you’re accusing him of something, do it.
87 - Jet in Columbus
Especially since your article revolves around insinuations of a GOP / Diebold conspiracy that you can't support
Duh
In 2003 the head of Diebold blatantly declared at his Republican $1,000-a-plate fundraiser that it was his intent to ensure President George W. Bush Ohio’s electoral votes. CEO Walden O’Dell asked everyone at the dinner he was hosting to raise up to $10,000 each towards Ohio’s Republican Party
As for the debt figures...who am I (or you for that matter to arbue with CNN?
from the Situation Room transcripts...
DOBBS: Let's go to some other issues that sometimes I think many don't associate with your office and your role in the federal government. Looking at the federal debt, the national debt, the trade debt. We're talking trillions of dollars, unfunded liabilities, for Social Security, for Medicare, for Medicaid. What in the world does Congress say when you tell them, folks, this is no way to run a government?
WALKER: Well, many people know that we have a serious financial problem. But they don't realize how serious. We have gone from $20 trillion in total liabilities and unfunded commitments five years ago $46 trillion.
DOBBS: Can you say that again? WALKER: From 20 trillion to 46 trillion in five years and it is going up every second of every minute of every day because we're still running debts at or near record rates.
Demographics are working against us. Interest costs are compounding against us because we're a debtor, not an investor.
For the rest of this CNN article click anywhere in the colored section
88 - Jet in Columbus
Oh and by the way I did say I was skipping the studies, that you went looking for them isn't my fault, I blatantly said I was skipping over them in the name of fairness.
That's a direct quote from Diebold's CEO, there's no "insinuating" about it.
By the way, Mr. Walker is with the federal government in the quote above.
89 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Well, JOM, I see you posted something intelligent. And Jet, you've made it reasonably clear that Diebold has certain Republicans they want to remain in power.
Now, for the alcohol slap, boys. It doesn't matter which party is in charge of your government. Both parties are infested with representatives of the oil and banking establishment, and those few politicians who make it to major office who aren't part of the oil and banking establishment and who don't tow the line manage not to survive, for one reason or another, or find themselves marginalized to the point of irrelevance.
Put differently, the only choice you get is whether it is an oilman or a banker who's got his hand in the federal and, in most cases, state till.
So much for democracy at any but the very local levels in your country.
I got to participate in a real democracy in Minnesota (precinct caucuses) and saw it spurned by the vast majority of the population - which doesn't give a damn. They couldn't be bothered to get off their lazy asses and go to a Republican or Democratic precinct caucus and try to take control of or even express their views within the party that they thought was relevant to them. You get the government you deserve. An apathetic fool deserves the stick he gets rammed up his ass.
90 - JustOneSmarterMan
JustOneDanRhiel, you're awfully touchy. I didn't know that your identity was a secret here. That explains why you removed my questions from your blog rather than deny the accusastion. Next time use an alias that doesn't match your email address, genius.
Also, just because I am aware you are a %$&*( doesn't make me a Democrat. I think both parties are screwed up.
91 - steve
jet or dave...could you please better explain this issue to me? From my eyes, If you consider the past two elections...democrats have been begging for electronic voting machines for accuracy purposes. Next, I see RFK Jr. on Fox News saying that the GOP will use electronic voting machines against them. Liberals now question the use of such machines. when will they make up their mind?
92 - Jet in Columbus
Ruvy if you're talking about #79, I found an article by the exact same authors that completely contradicts it on #84.
93 - Jet in Columbus
JOSM, while I agree completely, no one can remove anything from these articles except the Comments editor Chris Rose0... not even me the author.
That would explain him quoting himself all the time though.
94 - Jet in Columbus
Steve one of the most outspoken critics of electronic voting machines is Republican Governor Robert Ehrlich of Maryland... did you read the article?
The problem isn't the machines, it's the ease in which they can be manipulated, and the fact that one of the major manufacturers pledged Ohio's electoral votes to Bush, hardly a fairminded pledge from the manufacturer of the very machines we vote on, unless you're a republican... in which case it'd make perfect sense.
95 - Jet in Columbus
Next?
96 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Jet, regarding my comment #89, my point was not to highlight JOM's submitted article or yours, or to argue between the two. The point of the comment was that alcohol slap that starts in the second paragraph...
Unfortunately, your democracy has been slowly killed by a combination of authoritarian work practices (there can be only one boss and if he says the sky is green, the sky is green, etc.)and a dumbing down of both education and standards of writing, reading and mathematics. From those simple realities flow a whole host of consequences, starting with a very simple one; school is boring for most kids.
Heh. I probably should write my own article on the subject, but the source work I'd need, the writings of Carol Quigley, are really hard to get.
97 - Jet in Columbus
No Problem Ruvy, I just thought I was misunderstood. I'd googled his article and couldn't find it, only to find one by the same authors that said the exact opposite of what h'ed posted.
No worries my friend
Jet
98 - Jet in Columbus
...Potential problems in Ohio include voting machine difficulties like those Cuyahoga County experienced during May's primary, a law that requires voters to present identification at the polls and regulations that affect processing of voter registrations collected by outside groups. Electionline.org also said Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell's dual role as GOP gubernatorial candidate and Ohio's top elections official could lead to objectivity questions.
For the rest of this CLEVELAND PLAIN DEALER article click anywhere in the colored section
99 - gonzo marx
and once again...#99 shows how some will lie and frame in order to denigrate rather than engage indiscourse
i refer to the first sentence of comment #17
the Persecution rests
Excelsior?
100 - Jet in Columbus
The Iraq war has now lasted longer than World War II. That means it's taken Bush longer that it took the U.S. to defeat both the Nazis and Japan combined and they didn't have the technology we have today.
What does that tell you?
101 - Jet in Columbus
Ohio: The Democratic nominee, Rep. Ted Strickland, has a wide margin over the Republican nominee, Secretary of State Ken Blackwell. Ohio, which currently has a Republican governor who is not running for re-election, was the key battleground in the 2004 presidential election, tipping the election to Bush. Democrats have carried Ohio in some successful presidential elections in the past.
...Additionally, there are other states where Democrats have a strong chance of winning the governorship that could play a significant role in 2008 presidential politics. These include the following:
Maryland: This is a state that normally goes Democratic in presidential years but currently has a Republican governor, Bob Ehrlich, who is running for re-election. Baltimore Mayor Martin O’Malley, the Democratic nominee, is ahead in the polls. A Democratic win would solidify Maryland for the 2008 Democratic nominee.
For the rest of this FOX NEWS article click anywhere in the colored section
102 - JustOneMan
oh well I guess Ill drink the kool aid...
WOW...Jet what a great article you showed those Republicans...pure genius!
103 - Jet in Columbus
Most poll are now showing Ohio Secretary of State-and in charge of the elections Kenneth Blackwell tailing by 8-12 points. The perfect test to see if tampering will be done if ever I saw one.
104 - JustOneMan
Yeaaaa...Blackwells gonna go down! Alright! the last thing we loyal Democrats need is one of "his kind" in office....Yea Ill bet that Rove already has the Skin Heads and Princeton Programmers ready to throw the race!!
105 - Christopher Rose
JOM: you're developing quite a good sense of humour - a welcome change of tack. Keep it up...
106 - JustOneMan
Thank you Chris...but you are mistaken...I have seen the light...I am now a believer...the left is where I belong...the left is where I belong...the left is where I belong...the left is where I belong...
107 - Jet in Columbus
Other than that you enjoyed the article Chris?
108 - Jet in Columbus
The prospect of electronic glitches and attacks has led Minnesota and New Mexico to ban computerized voting machines and to lawsuits to block their use in Colorado and at least eight other states.
In the past four weeks, county clerks have been hustling to implement court-ordered security improvements in response to the Colorado suit.
The Denver Election Commission bought new video monitoring equipment and made other changes estimated to cost $115,000.
Jefferson County expects to spend $60,000 more than planned for cameras and rental trucks to move equipment, said election director Susan Miller.
Larimer County had to purchase extra security seals for computers, new video cameras to train on election equipment and $20,000 worth of extra computer storage space for video.
"This could be a $300,000, a $400,000 hit by the time we're done," said Scott Doyle, Larimer County clerk and recorder.
And there are other impacts.
Staff lost to complexity
Boulder County officials said they've lost election volunteers who are intimidated by the new voting computers.
"The biggest issue we've encountered is a turnover in our poll workers," said Josh Liss, elections coordinator.
"Most of our judges are elderly or senior citizens, and some decided they did not want to be a judge anymore because of added complexity," Liss said.
In Colorado, there will be at least one computerized voting machine in every voting place Nov. 7, about 8,000 in the state. Paper ballots also will be available in 47 counties.
Voters will vote on one of four brands of voting machines made by Diebold Election Systems Inc., Hart InterCivic Inc., Election Systems & Software Inc. and Sequoia Voting Systems.
For the rest of this DENVER POST article click anywhere in the colored section.
109 - Dave Nalle
This is the fucking 21st century, folks. Doesn't it seem reasonable to expect to be able to vote on a computer? We do everything else by computer, after all.
Don't let the luddites win!
Dave
110 - JustOneMan
Dave you are so wrong...Bush and Rove can easily manipulate these computers just like they control the price of gas...whats wrong with you is so clear to all of us on the left...
From the left...JustOneMan
111 - Dave Nalle
Yeah, JoM has sex with his computer. If he can trust it for that, why can't he trust it for voting?
Dave
112 - Nancy
I don't think anybody objects to computer voting; what they object to is there's no way to create a paper trial ... or rather, that there IS a way, but the states which have bought Diebolds deliberately didn't buy the attachments that would enable paper audit trails to be created. It says quite a bit that voters of BOTH parties in all the states don't trust those in charge of the elections without such paper audit trails, doesn't it? In Maryland, Republican Gov. Erlich is even calling for voters to use provisionals (paper) & boycott the Diebolds, which is an entirely reasonable position in view of the Diebold-created fiascos in various MD voting districts during the primaries. But it is like using a personal computer: while you do a lot of stuff on it, you also back it up frequently, and really important stuff gets copied onto a flash drive. NOBODY with any sense trusts the computer enough to not set up some kind of failsafe system ... except apparently the various elections boards of the various states.
113 - Nancy
Talk about timely, just now my computer added a comment of mine TWICE onto another thread on this site. If errors like this can occur commonly, then I think those who object to computer voting without some kind of paper trail audit system are entirely correct & prudent. That the state elections boards would not bother to buy the attachments tells me either they're stupid beyond words, or they're involved in trying possibly to perpetrate some kind of elections fraud.
114 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks Nancy, I't like I said, would you do business with a bank who's ATMs didn't give paper receipts?
115 - Jet in Columbus
Dave?????
116 - JustOneMan
Oh Jet you are so "right-on" how propsterous! Dave would have us beleive that we can even buy books or clothing, make bank transfers, even buy a car on some looney auction website without a paper reciept!
The right is really sinking to an all time low in their attempt to fix this election!
From the Left...JustOneMan
117 - Nancy
You know, Jet, I'm always surprised that some parties don't get tired of talking/blogging into a vacuum. Kind of like dead air talking to itself, all sound & fury & signifying nothing. Kind of like Bush....
118 - JustOneMan
Oh Nancy my dear how right, er I mean left you are! Well here is some more great technology related election news...straight [Edited] from the NYT... Yes we on the left are harnessing the power of the internet to subvert Bush and his band of thugs!
New York Times
October 26, 2006
A New Campaign Tactic: Manipulating Google Data
By TOM ZELLER Jr.
If things go as planned for liberal bloggers in the next few weeks, searching Google for "Jon Kyl," the Republican senator from Arizona now running for re-election, will produce high among the returns a link to an April 13 article from The Phoenix New Times, an alternative weekly.
Mr. Kyl "has spent his time in Washington kowtowing to the Bush administration and the radical right," the article suggests, "very often to the detriment of Arizonans."
Searching Google for "Peter King," the Republican congressman from Long Island, would bring up a link to a Newsday article headlined "King Endorses Ethnic Profiling."
Fifty or so other Republican candidates have also been made targets in a sophisticated "Google bombing" campaign intended to game the search engine's ranking algorithms. By flooding the Web with references to the candidates and repeatedly cross-linking to specific articles and sites on the Web, it is possible to take advantage of Google's formula and force those articles to the top of the list of search results.
The project was originally aimed at 70 Republican candidates but was scaled back to roughly 50 because Chris Bowers, who conceived it, thought some of the negative articles too partisan.
The articles to be used "had to come from news sources that would be widely trusted in the given district," said Mr. Bowers, a contributor at MyDD.com (Direct Democracy), a liberal group blog. "We wanted actual news reports so it would be clear that we weren't making anything up."
Each name is associated with one article. Those articles are embedded in hyperlinks that are now being distributed widely among the left-leaning blogosphere. In an entry at MyDD.com this week, Mr. Bowers said: "When you discuss any of these races in the future, please, use the same embedded hyperlink when reprinting the Republican's name. Then, I suppose, we will see what happens."
An accompanying part of the project is intended to buy up Google Adwords, so that searches for the candidates' names will bring up advertisements that point to the articles as well. But Mr. Bowers said his hopes for this were fading, because he was very busy.
The ability to manipulate the search engine's results has been demonstrated in the past. Searching for "miserable failure," for example, produces the official Web site of President Bush.
But it is far from clear whether this particular campaign will be successful. Much depends on the extent of political discussion already tied to a particular candidate's name.
It will be harder to manipulate results for searches of the name of a candidate who has already been widely covered in the news and widely discussed in the blogosphere, because so many links and so many pages already refer to that particular name. Search results on lesser-known candidates, with a smaller body of references and links, may be easier to change.
"We don't condone the practice of Google bombing, or any other action that seeks to affect the integrity of our search results," said Ricardo Reyes, a Google spokesman. "A site's ranking in Google's search results is automatically determined by computer algorithms using thousands of factors to calculate a page's relevance to a given query."
The company's faith in its system has produced a hands-off policy when it comes to correcting for the effects of Google bombs in the past. Over all, Google says, the integrity of the search product remains intact.
Writing in the company's blog last year, Marissa Mayer, Google's director of consumer Web products, suggested that pranks might be "distracting to some, but they don't affect the overall quality of our search service, whose objectivity, as always, remains the core of our mission."
Still, some conservative blogs have condemned Mr. Bowers's tactic. These include Outside the Beltway, which has called him "unscrupulous," and Hot Air, which declared the effort "fascinatingly evil."
But Mr. Bowers suggested that he was acting with complete transparency and said he hoped political campaigns would take up the tactic, which he called "search engine optimization," as a standard part of their arsenal.
"I did this out in the open using my real name, using my own Web site," he said. "There's no hidden agenda. One of the reasons for this is to show that campaigns should be doing this on their own."
Indeed, if all campaigns were doing it, the playing field might well be leveled.
Mr. Bowers said he did not believe the practice would actually deceive most Internet users.
"I think Internet users are very smart and most are aware of what a Google bomb is," he said, "and they will be aware that results can be massaged a bit."
Go Team Go!
From The Left...JustOneMan
119 - gonzo marx
on the actual Subject of this Thread...
arstechnica has another Article up, showing how one person can fuck up an entire state's election results
pretty scary stuff, but just what has been shown and linked over and over
the basic article lays out the premise, then there's a pdf file with all of the info
this is the fucking scariest "story" out there this Halloween season...
woe is U.S.
Excelsior?
120 - Jet in Columbus
Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it Nancy?
121 - JustOneMan
Gonzo..yes your are corrent I remember some years ago "one person" did not only fuck up an entire state's election results he actually tried to circumvent the results of a National Election...the nerve of the Republicans and their ilk!!!...oh.....wait...a minute....well eventhough Al Gore is one of us it proves "one person can fuck up an entire state's election results"
From the Left....JustOneMan
122 - Jet in Columbus
Gonzo, I highly recommend an HBO special that'll be aired Nov 2 called "Hacking Democracy". I'm trying to get an advanced copy through EO so I can review it.
Jet
123 - Dave Nalle
Yes that was me, Jet. And JoM got my point exactly in #116.
If we can do all the things he mentioned by computer and through the internet, many of which impact us as much or more than voting, then why the hell can't we have a system for voting in person or online which uses a computer and does it securely?
Here's the reason - the vulnerability of the system is and remains the human factor, not the computers. The same people who used to lose ballot boxes or stuff them are the ones who will lose computer data or replace or add to it. The computer is just an electronic ballot box.
When you stuffed your paper ballot into a box which was then counted by humans who could be corrupted did you ask for a receipt?
I agree that flawed machines which can be easily hacked should be fixed and Diebold or other providers should foot the bill. But blaming the voting machines is like blaming the ATM when your bank gets robbed. It just doesn't make any sense.
Dave
124 - Martin Lav
It does if you try to deposit money in your account through the ATM and it goes into George Bush's account.....
125 - gonzo marx
for Dave in #123...
it DOES matter if, as it appears in the case of Diebold, that such means to hack the system were built into the system deliberately in the first place
which any and every independant technical source has come up with so far, no exceptions...
i can easily Agree that the human factor is penultimate, but the deliberate fucking up of a system to make it LESS reliable and more EASILY manipulated, needs to be addressed
Excelsior?