The U.S. endangers its own well-being by supporting Israel.
Abu Gleg was an elderly Bedouin, father of 30. Eight years ago he donated land for an American international school to build its facilities. Within the walls of that facility, an American curriculum and the noble goals of tolerance and peace were taught to the students. Over the weekend, the benevolent Bedouin and the institution he gave birth to were killed and demolished by Israeli bombers.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Michael Maehl
Seems to me that the academic sitting safely well away in Zambia is representative of what Ruvy so gently alluded to. That is the tacit approval of the MSM western media and "celebs" of all things terrorist but never in favor of the Israelis doing the right thing. The Israelis have even taken time to do all that wasteful talking those less-enlightened think is necessary for a long time before actually taking action.
What is it with you drones who "cry for peace" and then damn those who only seek it for themselves? Your memories are the epitome of selective recall. I'm sure you're all very good at debating "how it should be" while equally comfortable letting others take any risk.
I'm not Jewish nor an evangelical. I am a former combat infantry vet and know this, all you idealists. There truly are evil people out there with whom you cannot "discuss" things...ever. I salute the chutzpah and focus of the Israeli people and government in taking it to the purveyors of such eveil and doing their best to annihilate them.
I am very proud to consider them as allies.
27 - Ruvy
Jack B.
The Palestinian people have been under siege for over 50 years. They have been subjected to killing, imprisonment, land confiscation, and just about every other degrading and humiliating act that mankind has ever conceived, yet they do not submit to these oppressive acts.
After the Palestinians voted in a free and democratic election, and the results were not to the liking of Israel, they are being subjected to collective punishment, which is a crime under international law.
You can read what really is going on between Israel, the PLO and Hamas here at comments 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 21 - or you can parrot the Arab bullshit line. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
28 - Ruvy
Fred,
Instead of spending paragraphs trying to define "fundamental" Islam, why don't you solve your problem by calling these heretical scum by their proper name?
WAHHABI
29 - Jack D
"The USS Liberty was attacked because it was providing intelligence to the Egyptians on Israeli tank movements in the Sinai in June 1967."
Ridiculous!
Israel attacked the USS Liberty using unmarked aircraft. This is a fact which proves Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war. If that were true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft. The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt.
Admiral Moorer, who as top legal council to the official investigation is in a position to know, agrees that Israel intended to sink the USS Liberty and blame Egypt for it, thus dragging the United States into a war on Israel's behalf. The objective was to frame Arabs and set them up as targets for the United States.
The real question facing the American people is why the US Government is more concerned with protecting Israel after they were caught killing Americans rather than sever all relations, not to mention military actions the US has taken in other cases where Americans were massacred.
30 - Canuck
To paraphrase the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Hamas' chickens are coming home to roost!
31 - Jack D
Keep in mind that Hamas was created by Israel to offset the influence of the PLO. How about those cickens?
32 - Ruvy
Jack B.
There is nothing ridiculous to what I say. I speak the truth. If the Israelis used unmarked aircraft to attack the USS liberty to try to force your country into war on our side, so much the better for the attempted deception! You deserve to be hoisted on your own petard!
We have to play by your damned rules of war? Who gives a shit about your damned rules of war? When Jews died in the concentration camps YOUR FUCKING ARMY AIR CORPS NEVER ONCE BOMBED A CONCENTRATION CAMP! WE DON'T OWE YOU HEARTLESS BASTARDS JACK SHIT!
How WE defend ourselves against an American enemy is OUR business and if you don't like it, too fuckin' bad!
33 - Jack D
Bomb concentration camps?
First, there was no clear evidence of where they were located.
Second, how do you get WWII bombs to distinguish between guards and inmates?
34 - fred
Ruvy, January 4, 2009 @ 18:37PM
It goes back a lot farther than Wahab. The gates of Ijtahid were declared closed in the 12th century.
35 - Jack D
Fifteen years after the attack on the USS Liberty, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role in the attack. According to this Israeli pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American ship immediately and so informed his headquarters. He was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.
Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.
The pilot's protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government had any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of the Israeli attack.
Why?
36 - Ruvy
Jack, you have been spreading bullshit all night! Fist of all, it was very clear knowledge to all where the concentration camps were. Only the ones furthest east in Poland were out of range of American and British bombers. Tracks led there because they were major slaughterhouses - in the most literal sense of the word.
AND TO REPEAT: YOUR DAMNED TO ARMY AIR CORPS DID NOT BOMB A SINGLE ONE! NEITHER DID THE BRITISH! THE LEADERSHIP BOTH IN ENGLAND AND AMERICA LIKED THE IDEA OF THE GERMANS KILLING OFF THE JEWS FOR THEM - THAT WAY THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO GET THEIR HANDS DIRTY AND CAME OUT OF THE WHOLE THING SMELLING LIKE ROSES - AND THE JEWS WERE STILL DEAD!
What a bunch of scummy bastards! May G-d judge you all well and fully for that.
37 - Ruvy
And jack, nothing you wriote here takes away from what I said about you country spying on our tank movements in the Sinai in 1967 - all you talk about is intimidation of pilots coming forward to state that they bombed the USS liberty. So? I agreed that Israel bombed the USS Liberty. Are you trying to sell ice to an Eskimo, or beat a dead horse - or both?
38 - Jack D
"Jack, you have been spreading bullshit all night! Fist of all, it was very clear knowledge to all where the concentration camps were."
The camps could have been POW camps. There were 3 million Soviets and other POW's in them. If they were bombed the Nazis could have retaliated by killing any survivors.
In many cases, the concentration camps were forced labor camps. If they all were bombed, there would have been no survivors to emigrate to Israel or anywhere else.
In addition, the prime objective of the war was to end it before long range V-2's, jet aircraft, and other advanced weapons were available to the Nazis, not to bomb concentration camps.
You only see history through your distorted prism.
Stop trying to rewrite history.
39 - fred
Jack D.,
There is plenty of evidence that the Johnson administration knew what went on but it did not meet their aims to create a rift with Israel (which disclosing it would most definitely have done). Again, you have to realize that the goal is to act as the alpha peacemaker, not favor one side or the other. Politicians have very different goals and ideals than the rest of us. For that perfidy you need to be angry at the guys in Washington who sent the Liberty into harms way.I think Ruvy is right that we were transmitting info to the Arabs, although I believe it was, again, to try to act as the alpha peacemaker, not as an enemy of Israel. Johnson knew we were playing with fire and kept silent. It is painful to the men who paid the price and those who are loyal to them, but politicians have other values and we fool ourselves if we deny it.
Ruvy, I think you are mistaken to call us an enemy. I am not trying to tell you that we are your BFF and want to help all Israelis achieve all their dreams, but the US is not out to destroy Israel, that's really a stretch. The US definitely has tried to thwart that segment of the Israeli populace that has "expansionist" aims, however they might be defined, but, for the most part, the US also has stood for the survival of Israel as a Jewish state (please note, I did not say 100% of Americans).
I would not recommend that Israel trust her fate to the goodwill of America, but an enemy in the sense of survival, we are not, at least not intentionally.
40 - DenoMac
For the people who are calling Israel an apartheid state because they women and men sit separate, have you ever been an Orthodox shul. Is that apartheid too? It's called modesty. Now the Ultra-Orthodox do take it far, but like Ruvy said, that's a cultural issue to be decided by the Ultra Orthodox and secular Jews. From what i've heard Israeli Arabs enjoy the same status as any other citizen of Israel. Yes, Hamas was democratically elected in Gaza but now the residents of Gaza are paying the price. Hamas has caused causalities on both sides, yet Israel is being painted as the bad guy because they have more weapons than Hamas. Iran and Hezbollah (two well-know Jew haters) are talking big words but they aren't acting because they know the international opinion of them will go lower. They're using the Palestinians as martyrs for their own selfish desires. I wish the Palestinians would wake up and smell the coffee.
41 - Jack D
Fred, "Again, you have to realize that the goal is to act as the alpha peacemaker, not favor one side or the other."
Americans are killed and wounded and you want Americans to be silent peacemakers?
Why should they?
And what peace?
42 - fred
Jack D. January 4, 2009 @ 20:30PM
Hell, man, I'm not trying to argue what is right, I'm just telling you what IS.
43 - fred
That public men publish falsehoods
Is nothing new. That America must accept
Like the historical republics corruption and empire
Has been known for years.
Be angry at the sun for setting
If these things anger you. Watch the wheel slope and turn,
They are all bound on the wheel, these people, those warriors.
This republic, Europe, Asia.
Observe them gesticulating,
Observe them going down. The gang serves lies, the passionate
Man plays his part; the cold passion for truth
Hunts in no pack.
You are not Catullus, you know,
To lampoon these crude sketches of Caesar. You are far
From Dante's feet, but even farther from his dirty
Political hatreds.
Let boys want pleasure, and men
Struggle for power, and women perhaps for fame,
And the servile to serve a Leader and the dupes to be duped.
Yours is not theirs.
/Robinson Jeffers ca 1940
44 - Jack D
Fred, we know what is.
"For that perfidy you need to be angry at the guys in Washington who sent the Liberty into harms way."
Would you say the same thing aabout the USS Cole?
In over 200 years what other American ship has ever been attacked with impunity?
45 - fred
Jack D. January 4, 2009 @ 20:30PM
I should have said what WAS.
We are backing down from that role. One should realize that whether one likes it or not, such times, when the alpha is pulling back from ruling the roost, are dangerous for the world. Wars have a way of breaking out when that genie gets out of the bottle.
46 - fred
47 - Jack D
The Reuben James comes to mind as the first US warship torpedoed by a Nazi submarine in WWII.
The Nazis lost the subsequent war.
No impunity.
48 - Paul
I could care less if Isreal dissappeared off the planet. We could get our Intel chips manufactured in China for all I care. Our close relations with and Isreal's influence IS a detriment to this nation. Norway and the Swiss are free and liberal and terrorists aren't trying to wipe them out. So "they hate us for our freedoms" is bull. These are MY opinions and if you don't like 'em, you can blow your top and eat my $h!+. Last I heard, this is a free nation and this is my free speach. eat it.
49 - fred
January 4, 2009 @ 21:01PM
The Germans declared war on us. We did not retaliate for the sinking of the James.
Again, I'm not arguing what is right, just what is.
Even if no other ship ever has been sunk with impunity, that's what happened with the Liberty. I told you why I think it went down the way it did. Johnson was playing with fire and good men paid the price.
50 - fred
Jack D.
As regards the Cole, no I would not say the same, we were in a "friendly" port in time of peace so there was no duplicity on the part of leaders involved in the ship being there. We knew that Al Quaeda was out to do us harm and we were out to do them harm.
51 - Jack D
Fred, "there was no duplicity on the part of leaders involved in the ship being there.'
Of course.
The point was there was no impunity to let the attackers off the hook.
52 - Jack D
Fred:
"The Germans declared war on us. We did not retaliate for the sinking of the James."
You think that if Germany had not declared war immediately after Pearl Harbor to honor its mutual defense treaty with Japan, and thereby beat us to declaring war, that we would not have declared war anyway after the Reuban James was sunk?
53 - fred
Jack D. January 4, 2009 @ 21:48PM
re: the sinking of the James.
Apparently the sinking of the James was not considered sufficient casus belli by Americans at the time as we did not declare war in the 6 weeks between the sinking and the German (and Italian) declaration. Again, Roosevelt did not seem to think he could get a declaration against Germany on the 8th as he did not openly seek one. Anti-war sentiment was extremely high. In August of 1941 the draft survived a vote in Congress by a single vote.
We probably would have eventually gotten into the war in Europe as that was Roosevelt's goal, but it would not have been right away and it would have taken a lot to get us to declare it. I definitely do not think we would have over the James. There were a lot of voices blaming Roosevelt for sending her into harm's way as we were supposed to be a neutral country.
54 - fred
Looking back up through other posts I note that some have proposed that peace with the Palestinians could be had in one way or another. To quote the Hamas Charter:
There is not the slightest chance of peace between Hamas (or any fundamentalist Muslim group) and Israel - read the Hamas charter.55 - Aussie Input.
Well at least the Israelis have the guts to do something about stopping, real murderers, that have no idea what the word peace is. Why don't you put your gun where your mouths are and get off your cowardly arses and fight for what you think is right, instead of offering all the verbal bullshit that, you seam to be only capable off, just like the rest of so called world leaders, who do not posses the intestinal fortitude to stop it. this problem in the first place, started outside, not within.
Know all-IDIOTS.
56 - Franco
#23 " January 4, 2009 @ 18:09PM " Jack D
"After the Palestinians voted in a free and democratic election, and the results were not to the liking of Israel, they are being subjected to collective punishment, which is a crime under international law."
To use free democratic elections as the premise for your argument to try and bring statues to Hamas is like pissing into the exhaust blasé of a jet engine.
The moment the radical Islamic Hamas brutally killed off its more moderate democratic political rival Fatah in Gaza, was the moment your asserting went into the toilet.
In fact, even before the 2007 blood bath Hamss handed Fatah eliminating all political rivalry and created their radical Islamic one-party system in Gaza, and even before the 2006 elections, it was apparent to anyone paying attention that Hamas was the radical hardcore “one party wolf” in democratic sheep’s clothing they have proved to be.
Anyone today who would still be arguing for Hamas credibly under democratic elections is completely and utterly obtuse, or has been re-educated in a radical mosque somewhere.
Hamas will not, can not, and promises never to make peace with Israel, and Hamas will even kill off their own Palestinian brothers and sisters who do want peace with Israel..
Hamas is a radical Islamic movement. It is spelled out clearly for all to read in their charter, which they are sworn to. Ever read it? Know how to Google? Here let me save you some time.
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up."
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
OK, stack those up against any MSM or Activist group in support or Hamas. Do they know about Hamas mission? Do they care? Do they think that Hamas charter is just radial Islmic hot air?
I challenge anyone to refute the following facts.
In September 2005, Israel vacated Gaza, dismantled all the settlements in the Gaza Strip. Hamas then quietly smuggled in vast amounts of explosives, weapons and rockets; they prepared themselves for battle.
In January 2006, rule over Gaza passed to the Hamas government under Ismail Haniyeh. Instead of bringing peace talks to the table or investors to Gaza, the Hamas government brought the guerrilla-warfare trainers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
In June 2007, in a brutal and bloody attack on Fatah, Hamas took control of Gaza and killed, imprisoned or chased out the leaders and followers of President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah. Gaza became nothing less than a military base for Iran.
Up until the Hamas takeover, 750 trucks would cross the border each day with imports and exports in trade with Gaza as the border crossings was being controlled by Abbas's Presidential Guard, not by Hamas terrorists. The Hamas takeover is what in effect locked the gates of Gaza.
Hamas teaches the school children in Gaza to “Kill Jews” Hamas has set up children’s TV channels showing Mickey Mouse and other cartoon characters telling children to Kill Jews for the glowy of Allah and all of Palistine. YouTube has a fare database on this if you have the stomach for it.
This is the stuff the MSM and activists do not tell you about in their drumming support for Hamas. This is not so much reckless and dangerous to all of use, but is assuredly is to this current and the next generation in Gaza.
Our largest investment of time, effort and wealth must be in educating future generations for a two state system.
Israel getting rid of Hamas now will also mean Israel is without excuse for having to come to the table with sincere “two-state mindset” Palestinian politicians and move this process forward.
Hamas has got to go, and that is not an argument that’s a fact. And the sooner the better.
57 - anry irishman
the israelis are the colonial masters of the usa. we are not allied with them. they own us and they own the colonial "government" in washington dc. got it?
58 - Dave Nalle
YOUR FUCKING ARMY AIR CORPS NEVER ONCE BOMBED A CONCENTRATION CAMP!
Ruvy, the WWII air forces deliberately avoided bombing concentration camps because if they had it would have meant killing thousands and thousands of jews and other prisoners. That's why there were still some left alive to rescue at the end of the war, no?
Dave
59 - Baritone
I don't suppose this has a lot to do with the spine of this discussion, but since Ruvy brought it up, I decided to carry the issue of the allies not bombing concentration camps a bit further.
I recently visited the Ravensbruck concentration camp in northern Germany. Both of my sons have toured Dachau. I was talking with one of them on the phone as I read Ruvy's damnation of us all.
Ravensbruck is a relatively small camp, or so I'm told, and any bombing of it would have likely resulted in the death of many of those being held there. The administration building sits at the front of the walled area containing the barracks and a small factory where the inmates made SS uniforms is at the rear. The nearest barracks were no more than perhaps a hundred yards or so from the administration building. No bombers of that era had the precision to make "surgical" attacks.
While Dachau, I'm told is much larger, my son believes that owing to its layout, it would have been equally difficult to accurately pinpoint targets without a huge amount of collateral damage.
I know nothing of the other camps, but I assume that most would have been similarly difficult to attack without taking out a large # of prisoners.
Of course, Ruvy is likely correct regarding a level of anti-semitism here in the U.S. and pretty much everywhere else for that matter. Remember the "St. Louis?"
This is a question I posed to Ruvy some time ago, one that I'm not comfortable in asking, but one that perhaps should be considered, perhaps especially by the Israelis and Jews in general.
Why have Jews been hated and persecuted pretty much throughout their history? I have no answer, but it is curious why there has so often been distrust, suspicion and outright hatred of Jews around the world. What is it about their culture, their religious strictures, their separateness, that brings about this repeated fear and loathing? Is the persecution of Jews ever and always the fault of the persecutor?
B
60 - Holocast-In-Gaza
@Baritone - Why Jews are so hated? Come on - just start to read the real history and also the real Holocaust, which in fact is not owned by the Jews. The majority of Holocaust victims were not Jews and you know that.
Some people think they are more valuable then others.
61 - Baritone
HIG,
I am not an advocate of anti-Jewish sentiment. I don't "know" any such thing. I do know that only around 16% of the over 100000 people murdered at Ravensbruck were Jews. Most were, however, women and children. As to numbers at other camps the % of Jewish victims was much higher. That millions of Jews were killed in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s is NOT a myth. To suggest otherwise is a grotesque mockery.
However, there is in my mind no substantive reason for Jewish persecution, but I do believe they have brought a good deal of it on themselves owing to their refusal to assimilate into native societies, their insistence on separateness which naturally spawns suspicion. It is, in effect, a condescencion, and, therefore, an insult. Generally, people don't take well to insult.
Just a note. I sometimes go off on diatribes and have more than once been accused of being - well, of being a potty mouth. I would point out though, that by comparison, Ruvy is a raving lunatic who shouldn't be allowed access to sharp objects. Sorry Ruvy, our quiet little discussions about livng and driving in the Big Apple and such notwithstanding, I believe you have fallen off the edge of the earth.
B
62 - Abu Ahmed Salahuddin
As a Palestinian who has been living in a refugee camp for a bout 50 years I regret to say that our enemy is not only Israel; It is the USA which has been abetting this criminal Jewish entity. We are being killed by Jews but with American approval, money, technology and support. How do you want us to love America?!!! We have nothing against decent Americans, but your country is the cause of our misery. If you can't play a fair role, have the decency to let others do that, such as the UN which has been hijacked by your country.
63 - Ruvy
Eventually, one has to get some sleep.
Baritone,
The reason Jews are hated is very simple. We are resented for having brought a humane code of law to mankind, and for upsetting the applecart of Greek paganism, which is a religion of hopelessness arrayed against the fates. Germanic paganism is not that much different. Not only that, Jews had the eternal gall to rebel against the savages who thought they were THE masters of the world, the Romans (check out the Roman name for the Mediterranean, Mare Nostrum - our sea). These scum decided to pursue a 600 year policy of genocide and ethnic cleansing against us (it would have been much shorter, but they didn't comprehend concentration camps and didn't have Zyklon B - technology really does speed things up!).
Christians, originally a breakaway sect from Jews, eventually bought into a lot of that paganism. And they preached, day in and day out that we Jews killed your "god" (you may be atheist now, but you were raised a Christian as a child - it shows all over your writing).
Christianity, as a religion, attempts to take the essence of a humane code, ours, and tack it on to a religion of blood sacrifice of humans (or gods, if you will) to be performed every single day. Christianity is nothing more than cannibalism dressed up in a fancy ceremony. This makes it abhorrent to us Jews. In addition, it divides a Divinity in three and insists that this is the universal faith, something else that is abhorrent to us. For many years, it was pretty damned militant about that insistence, murdering off anyone who argued with the official line (check your history of Europe in the dark and middle ages), not to mention any "god-killers" like us.
To put it bluntly, when Jews could, they sought not to live under such barbarism and were willing to pay for the privilege. That is how the ghetto started. It was a community of Jews living under Jewish law, under the "protection" of some Christian prince. As for a lot of Christina "stereotypes" of Jews, they were the bigotry of Christians writ large and taught as gospel - until the late 1600's in Poland, anyway. Things started to really go wrong there, but frankly, I don't want to get into that now. It hurts too much. But, a lot of what goes on in Israel today that is wrong stems from the souring of Jewish culture as Poland declined.
Jews were happy to live as second class citizens under the Moslems - at first. At least the Moslems did not insist on a program of constantly murdering and humiliating Jews - at first. But the ugly side of Moslems showed when the economy went bad or when some idiot thinking like the Wahhabi do today arose as a ruler. Here one needs to do some reading, but the history of Moslem Spain is illustrative. It was a good place for Jews - sometimes.
Now, Baritone, it is not my job to bother myself over why you (not you personally) hate us. It is my job to make sure that you (again, not you personally) don't get the chance to actualize that hatred. If that requires killing you (again, not you personally), so be it. This is found in the Talmud, and was the basis of much of the teachings of Rav Meir Kahane, z"l, hy"d. When you compare his writings to this:
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
-- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
or this: The nation of Israel is pure and the Arabs are a nation of donkeys. They are an evil disaster, an evil devil, and a nasty affliction. The Arabs are donkeys and beasts. They want to take our girls. They are endowed with true filthiness. There is pure and there is impure and they are impure."
-- Rabbi David Batzri, head of the Magen David Yeshiva in Jerusalem [Haaretz, March 21, 2006]
you begin to realize that Rav Kahane was not only not a racist, but that the liberalism and tolerance that he learned in America carried through in his own teachings. In addition, he was painfully honest, examining the faults of Jewish culture - something that the rabbis quoted above are unwilling to do - and demonstrating the Hand of G-d in much or the killing the Nazis did during WWII against my people, and others. That may be something you do not wish to recognize, but that is not my problem. My problem is to be able to look in the mirror and recognize the evil my own people have done to fellow Jews.
That is a lot harder to swallow than the angry rantings of the rabbis you see above. They indulge in false self-flattery, and in angry denunciation of a people who will one day be friends and allies. But one should look at the entire articles to see why these statements were made. It may very well be against the background of an Arab terror attack when anger and rage come out in temperate men who cannot take vengeance directly.
64 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, there is a huge difference between resented and hated. I resent you because you are so militant about your unsubstantiated faith and that makes me distrust you; on the other hand, I don't hate you at all.
The way you leap so readily to the victim or martyr posture is frankly boring and, to my mind, utterly pointless, irrelevant and untrue. Not that I think it is what Judaism represents anyway, but why would people resent a "humane code of law"?
As you know, I don't really have much interest at all in the largely tedious ins and outs of the whole Jewish/Christian/Muslim debate, the whole lot of you monotheists are a real burden on the rest of the world.
What I do notice from your many rants here is a sense of self-importance, to my mind an over-inflated one. There are 7 million Jews in Israel, another 7 million scattered around the world, and their issues are forced upon the rest of us in a massively disproportionate way. It amazes me that the concerns of such a small minority of the almost 7 billion people on this planet, some 0.2% of us, gets so much attention. There are more important issues to deal with.
65 - Ruvy
A New Reality is an opinion piece by Hana Levi Julian, a leading journalist or Arutz Sheva.
The real question remains: will HizbAllah get involved? If they manage to bombard Tel Aviv, the whole complexion of how Israelis look at the Arabs will change.From her article:
66 - Ruvy
Chris, look at the stats. This article - about why Americans are allies with Israel - is getting more readers then any article. It has been for a while. Kenn Jacobine has hit a nerve. That's why I did my news update here instead of at Mark Schannon's piece. In other words, you guys make us more important than we really are....
As for my condemnations of you all, you deserve them. Most Jews censor themselves or whine out "reasonable" arguments. I condemn. And that is really why you bothered to tell me how "bored" you are.
As for your resentments - well, we all have resentments Chris. It's part of life. Deal with it.
67 - Ruvy
The Arutz Sheva website is carrying a rah rah Israel version of the news lately. The end of this article shows the low level to which the Israeli leadership has fallen. From the article:
So, the Israeli government is doing exactly what I predicted it would do - invite in US soldiers to do what it didn't have the balls to do. Eventually that "invite" will be extended to task Americans with the other task the IDF can't handle - kicking us out of our homes in Judea and Samaria. At least, that is the plan.In the meantime, my favorite source of news, the Samson Blinded Blogsite, has been absolutely empty - a blank page.
some examples of Israeli "democracy" I never disagreed with kaddie on this point.
Israel has never been a functioning democracy. The blanking out - literally - of the Samson Blinded Blog is an example of this fact, among thousands of others, many of which are discriminatory against Arabs, and many of which are discriminatory against believing Jews. Oh, Israelis make a big stink about what a "democracy" they are - but they barely have a clue as to how one operates. Americans at least know how to operate one - sorta - but are just too damned lazy to.
68 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, I haven't seen any stats but if this article is proving popular, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is because a majority agrees with it.
I could care less, but not much less, who you condemn or why; it's simply not very interesting or relevant to much of anything.
As to my resentments, I am dealing with them and always have. Why did you leap to the assumption that I needed your advice on that? Frankly, I wouldn't take your advice on how to cross a road.
On a positive note, at least we both agree that we would support less Western involvement, even total disconnection, in Israel. Where we disagree is that you seem to seriously believe that Israel can survive such a thing, which goes back to that rampant egomania thing of yours.
69 - Ruvy
Ruvy, I haven't seen any stats but if this article is proving popular, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is because a majority agrees with it.
I said popular - I do not pretend to discern opinion from what I see on the most popular articles chart. But the title has struck a nerve, and folks are paying attention - at least as of this moment. That can change in an eyeblink. Therefore, it is worth posting my updates here.
I'm happy you are dealing with your resentments. That, and the guy from CBS (the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, not the Columbia Broadcasting System) pumping us for information has just made my day. I tried to stick you in his survey as a "professional nuisance" but his narrow minded forms had no room for you. Sorry. We'll try harder next time.
70 - Franco
#62 " Abu Ahmed Salahuddin
If you can't play a fair role, have the decency to let others do that,
Define fair role.
71 - Mango
We're allied with Israel because its founders control our currency.
72 - Bob Johnson
Could a major fundamental reason for Israel's aggression be the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament? For example, Deuteronomy 7:6 says the Jews/Hebrews are "above all people that are upon the face of the earth." The author of this claim to Jewish superiority over all other people was an ancient Hebrew, but it is taken by too many to be the voice of God.
Isaiah 60:12 says those nations that will not sever Israel will perish. It appears both political parties in the US have bought that one hook line and sinker!
Progress! Bob Johnson
73 - Franco
#68 " Christopher Rose
Chris sez to Ruvy...
“On a positive note, at least we both agree that we would support less Western involvement, even total disconnection, in Israel".
"Where we disagree is that you seem to seriously believe that Israel can survive such a thing,”
Ruvy, while Chris is encouraging a Western disconnection, even total disconnection from Israel as a positive thing, he also seriously believes (and admits it at the very same time) that Israel will not be able to survive following such a Western disconnection.
Regardless of what you believe to the contrary Ruby on Israels survivality, it’s ironic how Chris argues against your claims of Jewish/Israeli persecution and calls them “utterly pointless, irrelevant and untrue”, then turns right around and proves your point by promoting as a positive note the un-survivability of Israel.
It is further ironic how Chris is living proof that history dose repeat itself.
Chris unknowingly reveals himself as an old school European elitist (albeit the back door kind) in the “We must resolve the Jewish Issue” that promoted itself throughout both Eastern and Western Europe through the last half of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th.
Chris acts in the same way the old school European elitist did back then in wanting to look proper and politically correct and does not what his hands dirty in promotion of out right arresting and elimination in finding a solution, hence the back door approach as evidenced here so someone else can do it.
I ask you, is there a difference between the two? I assert the back door elitist is the more insidious of the two.
Critical thinking has never been one of Chris strong suits as evidenced here. It is further evidenced in the fact that even if Chris were right (which he seriously believes) it is futher ironic that he makes no other comments on what such an event would usher into the Middle East as Israel was being destroyed.
Chris’s only reference to this pending cataclysmic event was " “it's simply not very interesting or relevant to much of anything” and “there are more important issues to deal with”.
But Ruvy, don’t take anything Chris says personally, remember, Chris also said he did not hate you.
What ever gets you through the night Chris.
74 - Christopher Rose
Aah, the return of Franco, the man who posts excessively verbose comments yet apparently lacks the ability to understand what he is commenting on!
Some corrections are needed:- I'm not encouraging a disconnection from Israel and don't think it will happen; I do doubt that Israel could survive without Western support; I said the way that Ruvy acted the victim or martyr was irrelevant, not claims of "Jewish/Israeli persecution"; nor did I promote "as a positive note the un-survivability of Israel"; I have little interest in resolving the Jewish issue, indeed, I think it commands too much global attention; finally, I said that who Ruvy chooses to condemn was not very interesting or relevant, not the destruction of Israel.
Franco, well done on confirming my opinion that you are a classic example of an empty vessel making a lot of noise, in your case utterly unfounded and mindless noise. Do you work at such total miscomprehension or does it come naturally?
75 - Dr Dreadful
Much as we pretend to be secular, the West is allied with Israel primarily for religious reasons. The guilt issue and the wedge issue are secondary. The bottom line is this: ditch Israel, and we lose access to Jerusalem.
Ironically, our persistent persecution of Jews over the centuries has the same root.