The Blogger obviously takes exception in the quote above to my allusion that the change in NY city since my earlier visit as being attributable to the 9/11 attacks.
Which I will admit was exactly my allusion.
Then the Blogger goes on about the things that upset her about my post. Getting "upset" about my post, let's state right here, being an enormous over-reaction as I see it. But in my post that gets this poor unhappy human being so upset, I cite specific examples, very specific and TRUE examples, of the change in attitude of NY city since my earlier visit and the recent one with the incident of "The Bag."
Sure, my examples are but anecdotes in a city teeming with millions of humans and the examples may, or may not, be indicative of a change in the "persona" of NY City from twenty years ago until now.
Although this Liberal Blogger really needs to get a clue. This is how tourists get an impression of places he/she may visit. They then go home and tell their family and friends. It's a fact. All of us, even Liberals, form their mindsets and opinions on human interaction and our personal experiences.
In fact if 9/11 didn't help change the atmosphere of NY city, for which an argument could be made that it DID as the city desperately needed to get their tourists back, then I'd argue it was the reign of mighty Rudy Guilianni that did the deed.
Either way, I still argue the NY City of my twenty year memory and the NY City of "The Bag" are almost two different cities in two different times.
The Blogger, who lives in NY city by the way, can think what she wants. Sometimes when one is in the middle of something they lose a perspective a casual visitor can note immediately.
Even more bizarre, the post had many comments after the original post.
"We don't need or want holier than thou tourists who are so proud of visiting our city because they could be putting their lives in danger."
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Temple Stark
I'd say that one guy was unhappy.
However, me? I'm unhappy with your italic and bold formatting :-)
I'll read again more closely tomorrow. Er, later today.
2 - Temple Stark
Also, after a few minutes, photos do not work if you try and attach them from blogger / blogspot. It's their limitation not ours.
3 - jojo
The conclusion I have come to is lefties are sexually frustrated and/or just too stupid to think logically or put together a sensible argument.
A kind of political retardation that normal people are immune.
Let's face it. How smart can they be if they consider themselves liberal?
I believe the actual medical term for it is "shit for brains". Now watch the expletives explode. Heh.
@(#)&$@*&$@)*$
4 - Cerulean
Well, Jojo, I think you showed us that personal meanness is present in the right wing.
There are a lot of unhappy people on this site and I've had problems with them. I don't think that tarring all liberals with that brush is fair. Personal meanness tends to be more prevalent in left-leaning sites (although there are lots of nice people too) while I find the reality created by right wing beliefs mean.
When there started to be more right wingers and born again Christians here, I was thinking that just such things as you described would happen. There are people here who will attack anyone for any reason, but there is also compatibility of different groups, and this group may be trying to encompass too many ideologies to remain collegial.
5 - Steve S
sorry to hear that some people were mean to you. I have faced a lot of meanness from the right. Perhaps I don't see much of the meanness of the left and you of the right because we 'live' on each side. Do you know what I mean?
Conservatives demonize me, compare me to predators, animal lovers, tell me how my relationship is going to cause the downfall of civilization and all sorts of stuff.
So I'm not going to bother to click on the link to see how bad it was for you, I'll take your word for it, but there is meanness on both sides.
I try to never be mean unless I feel you are supporting a harmful ideology or if you wake the baby. Otherwise I try to always be nice.
6 - dietdoc
I, personally, do not think this sort of petty "meanness" is related to political/socioeconomic leaning, left or right. I think it goes much deeper. It is fueled by passion, frustration, and a feeling of helplessness. People who are comfortable in their own skin with their own thoughts - regardless of their philosophy - are not inclined to attack, with such venom, a dissenting opinion. They prefer, for the most part, measured discourse and discussion.
I do not learn much from people who share my belief; I learn a great deal from those who do not.
Cheers,
Ron
7 - Danny
Didn't they coin the term "compassionate conservatism" to offset the image that wingers are cold hearted bastards? If there's any group in the political landscape who's more prone to meanness, it would be cons. After all, we liberals are wimps who bend over backwards to accomodate your intolerance.
And last time I checked, hate radio is a rightwing industry.
8 - Shark
Pat, how 'bout an article explaining why Conservatives are such whining, overly sensitive pussies?
Or how 'bout one on how hasty generalizations about others can often be a sign of repressed ignorance?
But my suggestion: your next "book" should be a compilation of ancient cliches for upcoming writers:
"...needs to get a clue"
"Dear Lord! These people need to get a grip!"
-- are a great start!
Thanks,
SHARK (A really mean, evil "rock-solid" Liberal who used to be "unabashed" Conservative)
9 - Lisa McKay
I've seen an unbridled hatred of our current President unbalanced almost in the vitriol.
As a liberal who is both happy and (mostly) kind, I must conclude that you interpreted the right's attitude toward the Clintons to have been some sort of lovefest, and that you think Ann Coulter is a sweetie-pie. Meanness knows no political boundaries, Patfish, but I suspect you already know that. If anything makes me tend towards feeling grumpy, it's when people choose to paint an entire group of people with the broad brush of generalization.
10 - andy marsh
I personally don't like to use a brush...I paint 'em with a Wagner Power Painter!
11 - Shark
It's posts like these that remind me why I often hate the internet, the 'democratization' of "communication" -- and its resulting shit-flood of confessional and/or personal whines from semi-literates who equate the ability to type with the ability to think.
Ten or twenty years ago, this post and similar mindless crap would have been confined to a locked-up "Dear Diary" under some distraught meth-addled teenager's bed.
Or maybe it would have been manifested as a phone call to Mommy to complain about something someone at work said...
Nowadays, it's not only NOT EMBARRASSING, but it's posted in public as a source of pride.
Good lord!
Get a clue and some shame, people.
(Oh... and some standards, too!)
Thanks,
Blogcritic's "*Simon Cowell"
* mean? Or just trying to be helpful by being brutally honest?
12 - Sterfish
Meanness is an affliction that affects both sides equally. The sad thing is that all it takes is one mean person to taint the way a person views an entire side.
13 - andy marsh
That's it Shark...I'm calling my mom...and I'm calling RJ's mom too...and I'm calling Patfish's mom too...just for picking on him...now you're in really really big trouble!
You just wait til your father gets home!
14 - Nancy
Yeah, what Sterfish said: I know lots of conservatives who are the soul of kindness & sweet reason, & I know plenty of liberals who could stand to study the meaning of the word 'liberal'. I also know plenty of the opposite who fit all the stereotypes of either party. Meanness per se has nothing to do w/political affiliation, but more likely with whether the person being mean got no sleep, is upset about something, didn't take their meds, drank too much coffee/coke/Code Red for breakfast, is going thru a PMS phase (if female) ... all kinds of reasons unrelated to you personally. Fortunately, the Ann Coulters of the world are few & far between - those who are genuinely, gratuitously, deeply malicious & hateful all the time, regardless of their political affiliations.
15 - KC
First I'm sorry this happened to you, it looks from what you've said as if someone wished silence you. I'm glad they weren't successful.
However I don't think the reason they did what they did is due to their political view, but rather a reaction to someone having a different viewpoint. It's easy when you're confronted with an opinion completely opposite from your own to lump the speaker in with everyone else you've heard voice that argument. Once you've labeled them this way you don't have to show them empathy or respect. Once labeled you're free to assign them motives without checking, blame them for past slights inflicted by someone else, or make overall judgments that go far beyond their stated difference of opinion. In short you don't have to see them as an individual or even human anymore. You can say whatever you wish about them or to them with no remorse once you�ve placed them in such a category, after all they are the OTHER. He/She forgot you were a fellow human being in their zeal to over ride your opinion and argument.
You have to admit there�s a lot of that going around these days, but helpfully we all can at some point put the sharpened knives down and actually listen to each other. We need to remember to respect the people behind a different view point even if we don�t respect their ideas. Glad to see you didn�t pick up your ball and go home, but have stayed to play the game. :)
16 - Nancy
Yes. You could WERE in NY, you could have just run afoul of a stereotypical NYer, altho I must observe that when I spent 6 weeks housesitting in Riverdale, in the Bronx, NY, I frequently walked or took public transit all over NYC doing the tourist bit, & was usually lost, and I have never met more gracious, nicer people than the NYers, of all colors & backgrounds. I even got lost in Harlem. Maybe God looks out for idiots like me, but I never met anyone there who was less than lovely to me. Several persons went out of their way to make sure I got where I was going in safety. Me - an obvious out of towner.
So, maybe you just met someone having a really bad day. I doubt it was aimed at you personally. Hope you go again and have a much better time.
17 - carmine
Patfish,
Your experiences echo my own. I too was once a liberal with a chip on my shoulder. I even wore a button that said "I believe Anita Hill." Then I had a son, now an adult. And when the very feminist and liberal ideologies I had mindlessly embraced as a liberal meant, after my wife kidnapped my son, that as a Man I would not be allowed to see my son more than a few hours a week. I had a transformational experience: Liberals are not actually liberals. Classical liberalism is defined by an openess to reason and argument. Contemporary liberalism is merely ad hominem (attacking the man rather than his argument) raised to the level of doctrine. Contemporary liberals do not actually argue, they merely malign people and then pretend it to be reasonable. Now I know Anita Hill was likely a bald faced liar and and that is not an ad hominem for all the evidence demonstrates it. Anita Hill was a watershed moment for the return of classical liberalism, now known as conservativism. Yes we conservatives are the only ones who conserve our most cherished values: common sense, empirical evidence, reasonable dialogue.
18 - andy marsh
I'll say this...New Yorkers are getting better...a while back...they would have blamed us Jersey boys for any bad attitude you may have run into in NY!
HA!
19 - jojo
Dear Diary:
Note to self. Today Shark was mean to my good friend Patfish.
I really hate people who like to hate like that. Full of hate, hate, hate.
But we have to be tolerant of those who really can't help themselves.
Sigh!
Till tomorrow deary diary.
Adieu.
P.S.: People like him will probably go to hell anyhow. Justice served.
I'm a liberal and very proud that I am an enlightened thinker and above all this hate, hate, hate.
Gosh I feel really good about myself because I know that I'm better than them.
Sweet dreams and nighty-night. Ahhhh
20 - PseudoErsatz
Old joke:
What't the definition of a Conservative?
A Liberal with a teenaged daughter.
21 - jojo
Definition of a Liberal:
A young single person who uses abortion as a contraceptive, has a homosexual cousin who just came out of the closet and believes that Teddy (Chappa) Kennedy was innocent.
22 - Mark Saleski
it's TalkRadio day! yay!!!!
23 - Steve S
jokes about liberals on a 'why are liberals mean' thread. Hmmm.
Both sides might have a 'mean' streak, but one side clearly dominates when it comes to hypocrisy.
24 - JR
I read the first half of comment 19 as satire and thought it was absolutely brilliant. Then it stepped out of the frame and got confusing.
25 - PseudoErsatz
Oh come now, Mr. S.! Liberals don't have the corner on hypocrisy! Cons have plenty to heave around also. Let's try to be more open-minded!