The Arabs say that the Israelis, the supposed victims (they deny the holocaust) of the Nazis are behaving like the New Nazis themselves against the Arabs (trying to repeat the holocaust that never really happened according to Ahmedinejad on the Palestinians).
But who is it that derives their ideological inspiration from the Nazi movement? Is it the Arabs or the Jews?
Two prominent Arab leaders of the past supposedly cooperated with the Nazis. One of them is even said to have pushed the Nazis into going in for the Final Solution rather than let the Jews emigrate or be exchanged in return for thousands of German POWs held by the Allies. That someone was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Mohammed Amin Al-Husseini who harboured ambitions of becoming the ruler of all Palestine. Now did someone by the name Ahmedinejad claim that the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust?
The other person is Hassan al-Banna an Egyptian and founder of the Muslim Brotherhood(MB). An ardent admirer of Adolph Hitler, he cooperated with the Nazis and his organisation virtually became an arm of Nazi intelligence during WW2. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Al-Husseini was also the head of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. It was in this capacity that he met Hitler on November 28, 1941 in Berlin. He also subsequently helped Hitler to raise 3 SS divisions; the 13th, 21st and 27th divisions called the Hanjar, Skanderbeg and Kama respectively. Of this the Skanderbeg division composed of Croatians was also involved in the massacre of nearly 200,000 Serbians (sound familiar?). For his efforts Hitler even gave Al-Husseini the title, "Fuhrer of the Arab World".
There are millions of teenagers today across the world who admire Hitler and the Nazis chiefly because they find the Germans of that era disciplined and focussed and because they nearly conquered the whole world. That is quite understandable. We can call them Triumph des Willens fans.
But in case of the Arabs they draw their primary inspiration from the Nazi hatred for the Jews. One can call them The Eternal Jew fans of the Nazis. There is a disturbing parallel between the way the Nazis and the Arabs present Jews in their daily propaganda. Their propaganda lines seem eerily similar and we have to keep in mind that this is not pure coincidence. It is not like the Arabs found some old tattered propaganda posters, tapes and movies lying around and thought they could use them. Nope, it is only the Eurocentric history writing of World War 2 which virtually ignores all Non-White, Non-Christian and Non-European players that allows the Arabs to escape blame and Ahmedinejad to claim that the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Apollo,
You shame me. You are making all the points I should be making in my arguments. The reason I don't is that I want to move on, and I want my fellow Jews to move on from the intoxicating drug of worshipping victimization, and the more a Jew taks about Nazis, he more he releases that drug into the common pot of discourse.
Great job, Apollo.
Thanks.
2 - Apollo
Ruvy, As someone from outside the Judeo-christian or Islamic cultures i find this Jewophobia very puzzling and irritating. No one should be branded as bad or evil just because he or she belongs to a particular religion or ethnicity. I hope the Arabs will make peace with the Jews and live together as good neighbours.
3 - Les Slater
"The fate of Jews in Germany is not an end but a beginning. Other anti-Semitic states will learn from Hitler. Millions of Jews face annihilation, the refugee problem has assumed worldwide proportions, and urgency. Britain is trying to separate the issue of the refugees from that of Palestine ... If Jews will have to choose between the refugees, saving Jews from concentration camps, and assisting a national museum in Palestine, mercy will have the upper hand and the whole energy of the people will be channeled into saving Jews from various contries. Zionism will be struck off the agenda not only in world public opinion, in Britain and the U.S.A., but elsewhere in Jewish public opinion. If we allow a separation between the refugee problem and the Palestine problem, we are risking the existance of Zionism."
David Ben-Gurion - December 17, 1938
4 - Condor
I heard a statement once that Zionism was closely related (in theory) to Bolshavick(ism). Probably what was meant was Socialism... Facism is a form of Socialism, so the stretch can be made.
But that's government not culture or ethnicity.
Jews are probably as algamated as the rest of the Europe. The Muslims, Huns, Romans etc... all put their fingerprint on the genome of the course of time along with the migrating masses who continue to cross borders and mix with the variety of bloodlines. Recent studies theorize that the total generations needed to get down to a common ancestary is 142 (mathematically speaking). Think about it. 142 generations ago (according to theory), we were all 1st cousins.
So what's all the fuss?
There were Jews in the area known as Palastine before the European group migrated. The country of Palastine never existed... it was a region, with a migrating population, no government outside of tribal rule and was ripe for the harvest. Later arguments put a stamp on the area's inhabitants, who have since claimed that their country was stolen. Which is simply overstating the facts.
Now, do I concur with the 1948 accord which divided up the region of Palastine and the region now known as Pakistan? Not really. 20/20 hindsight has proven that it is a costly endeavor. Not only in money but in blood. Money is one thing... blood is unacceptable.
5 - Les Slater
"If I am asked could you give from UJA [United Jewish Appeal] moneys to rescue Jews? I say 'No; and I say it again, No.' In my opinion we have to resist that wave which puts Zionist activities in the second line."
Itzhak Greenbaum, head of the Jewish Rescue Committee, speaking before the Zionist Exucutive Council. 1943
6 - Voice ofReason
Neither. The Jews fight for self-preservation. The palestinians for the right of self-determination. The Nazi's were fighting for global domination and race purification. So this is a loaded question with no grounding in fact. It's like who is stronger? The Hulk or Superman?
Obviously Superman.
7 - Victor Plenty
Hulk is Marvel. Superman is DC. It's pointless to compare them. Almost as pointless as comparing the Arabs and the Jews to the Nazis.
8 - gazelle
Hezbollah, the shias, are only mentioned in your title!
In the body you only talk about the sunni brotherhood, hamas & alqaeda as neo-nazi??
so how do explain the neo-nazism of hezbollah?
this can only be explained with reference to the fascist zionist political unjust oppressive regime of israel, which is most akin to nazi brutality, ignoring state rhetoric.
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9 - gazelle
would you also say that the hindutva are inspired by nazis ?
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10 - gazelle
You cite a number of sources non of which can be considered balanced.
The alternative view holds that al-husseini was opposed to the creation of a jewish homeland in the region, hence he collaborated with the nazis. Much of the rest of 'the facts you cite" are in dispute, including that al-husseini knew about the holocaust (see arendt). he was also ineffective after 1937 when he was ejected from palestine.
the article is misleading in making hitler any sort of role model for muslims. this has never been the case.
the only thing i can agree to is that there is a fascist component in some of the organizations mentioned like al-qaeda, but this is also a characteristic of jewish extremist organizations who are proponents of an expanded zionism through extermination and expelling of arabs from the region.
i think this is now the beginnings of a balanced view.
So the answer to who draws inspiration, or more broadly, acts like the nazis, is:
zionist israelis, and
some 'islamists' like fascist alqaeda.
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11 - Apollo
I don't talk about a so called "Sunni" brotherhood.
I talk about an actual organisation called the "Muslim Brotherhood".
This organisation has direct links to the actual organisation called the Nazi Party which existed till 1945.
There is overwhelming evidence that they both collaborated. u might come up with a million subjective interpretations of why and how. But the objective fact is they collaborated because they found it in their common interest to do so.
The Hamas and Al-Qaeda are offshoots of MB which u agree. what about Hezbollah(shiite/Arab)? They are inspired by the MB(sunni/Arab) "ideologically"(see those nazi salutes) but funded by Iran(shiite/persian) and also supported by syria(sunni/alhawite).
12 - Apollo
"Would you also say that the hindutva are inspired by nazis ?"
Find me a RSS leader who helped Hitler raise 3 Nazi SS divisions and then we will talk.
13 - gazelle
apollo #11
what about Hezbollah(shiite/Arab)? They are inspired by the MB(sunni/Arab) "ideologically"(see those nazi salutes) but funded by Iran(shiite/persian) and also supported by syria(sunni/alhawite)
Sorry this hezbollah-MB is a little tenuous given MB's sunni status and links in eqypt, and hezbollah's in the shias of najaf and qum.
The MB and hezbollah are "ideologically" differenyt in being rooted in different theological histories, but united in
* their opposition to israel,
* the west's support to it and ineffective governments in the middle east, and
* in trying to establish 'islamic' governments in their countries.
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14 - gazelle
apollo #12
"If we Hindus grow stronger in time Moslem friends ...will have to play the part of German Jews."
Savarkar's presidential address to RSS members in Nagpur on 28 December 1938. Indian Annual Register, 1938 (1939), Vol. II, Calcutta.
[The Sangh"]
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"Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar, one of the early ideologues of the RSS, expressed his admiration for Nazi agendas very clearly in 1938: "To keep up the purity of the nation and its culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races -- the Jews. National pride at its highest has been manifested here."
He continued: "The non-Hindu people in Hindustan must either adopt the Hindu culture and language, must learn to respect and revere Hindu religion, must entertain no idea but the glorification of the Hindu nation… in one word, they must cease to
be foreigners or may stay in the country wholly subordinated to the Hindu nation claiming nothing, deserving no privileges, far less any preferential treatment, not even citizen's rights."
[Genocide on Gujarat]
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"Hitler is a textbook hero" - Times of India
[Article about Narendra Modi's Gujarat]
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see also from wikipedia:
~ Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS)
~ Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP)
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Who needs 3 ss divisions when one has raised Narendra_Modi, the 1.3 million RSS and VHP and apollo 12.
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15 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Les,
I've been following your comments eith interest. Are you saying that the Zionist movement collaborated with the Nazis to kill several million Jews?
I'm not getting all whacked out of shape here, just asking a straight question. Would that account for your hostility to the Israeli regime and the present Jewish entity? Again, thsi is not meant as a hostile question, but a civil one. And you will receive a civil response to your answer.
16 - Mark Schannon
In the face of facts, a strong opinion will win every time. Great article Apollo but we humans will almost never accept facts as a reason to question our own belief systems. In fact, we'll twist facts to reinforce them.
Humans are a hopeless cause.
In Jameson Veritas
17 - Sanjay
Typical Islamist rhetoric from Gazelle.
Let's be clear -- Hindus fought as part of the allied forces during WW2. My relatives certainly did. Look at the number of Hindus who won Victoria Crosses not just in WW2, but also in WW1. Muslims largely sat out the war.
Neither RSS nor Hindus are Nazis, it's the Islamo-fascists who are. You're not fooling anybody.
18 - Apollo
gazelle #14
I asked u to get me evidence that RSS/Sangh leaders had direct contacts with the Nazi party.Rhetoric means just that rhetoric. The sangh parivar are famous for their big mouths and for talking without thinking.
I have not quoted one single line from either nazi sources or MB or Al-husseini in my post i have let their own actions speak for themselves. can u do the same. Find me evidence of direct contacts between the RSS and Nazi party.
19 - Apollo
#16
thanks mark, and u can find evidence for that right here. gazelle simply denies the facts and points out faults everywhere else but his own.
20 - Apollo
gazelle. here is some evidence about the "tenuous" links between muslim brotherhood and hezbollah
Mohammed Habib, deputy leader of Egypt's largest Islamic Sunni group, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, immediately rejected al-Hawali's new religious edict, saying Hizbullah is defending "the whole Islamic nation" jerusalem post
[Apollo, it is BC convention to make all links active. If you don't already know how, there is an explanation to be found at htmlcodetutorial.com. Thanks. Comments Editor]
21 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Apollo,
Just for your information, Gazelle is a she, not a he. So maybe she's the Queen of De-Nial. Actually, in her case, more a princess...
But cut her a bit of slack. The shellacking the Lebanese are getting at the hands of our army is hurting her - I do not know if you've noticed the change in her tone since this all began - and war is painful - and scary. I get nervous as I hear the planes overhead travelling north to raid Lebanon - and they are OUR planes going on the attack. There have been no sirens across this part of the country at all. And I've noticed the change in my own tone of writing...
Israeli peaceniks are into big time denial - lumbering like big grizzlies into huge forests of lies and falsehoods that they try to peddle as truth. They make Gazelle look like just a graceful little antelope in a heath by comparison. And they practice denial on a big scale even when there is not a hot war going on. It would be funny, if the government did not follow in their tracks and cost the lives of hundreds of Israelis in the process.
22 - gazelle
sanjay #17
Let's be clear -- Hindus fought as part of the allied forces during WW2. My relatives certainly did. Look at the number of Hindus who won Victoria Crosses not just in WW2, but also in WW1. Muslims largely sat out the war.
Sanjay, you must be looking at current army lists.
I see you still loyal to the Crown, eh?
tch-tch tch-tch !
1. "Before Partition Muslims formed 36 per cent of the Army" - The Hindu
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2. Muslims in pre WWII British-Indian Army
please have a look at Annexure A,B,& C
The Baluch Regiment in World War II fielded some 16 battalions and 5 Garrison companies. Their awards and decorations collated from names of Muslims totalled: 289, including one Victoria Cross.11 Exact figures of their casualties are not available.
The Frontier Force Rifles fielded 15 battalions and 3 Garrison companies.Awards and decorations, collated by names of Muslim elements totalled 400 including one Victoria Cross, see citation at Annexure A.
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3. "As far as the armed forces are concerned, I state that the lack of Muslims in officer ranks is due to the Muslims' educational backwardness. This is true of the situation in the police and the paramilitary as well."
Interview with Omar Khalidi
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23 - gazelle
# 18 apollo
rhetoric is prelude to action. It happens if people get the chance.
PS: I'll do it when i'm free, although I am not claiming that - you are just giving me this task for some odd reason or another!
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24 - gazelle
ruvy in J
thanks for the commentary.
ya, the tone has definitely changed. I'm mostly hearing-high pitched sounds.
not good
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25 - gazelle
I think I am dripping with labels by now. best