We must begin now to prioritize and start planning to deal with the coming changes in our population.
Non-Hispanic white children born in America today will be members of a minority by the time they reach their fifteenth birthdays, according to Census Bureau projections released today. The report projects that present-day minorities will exceed 50% of the child population by 2023. Said Dave Waddington, chief of the Census Bureau's population projection branch, in an interview with CNN, "Part of it is a higher fertility rate for some of the minority groups, Hispanics in particular. Those groups also tend to be more of the childbearing age. Non-Hispanic white people tend to be a little bit older."…
Article comments
26 - STM
I fail to see how anyone can eat a dirty great juicy steak without putting salt on it.
It's sacrilege. People have suggested in the past that I use lemon instead. I tried, but it was crap on its own, so now I do both :)
27 - Dan Miller
Baritone,
Years ago I happened to find a can of "no salt" soup at a grocery in Bloomington, IN. I thought, what the hell, how bad could it be?
Great Zeus! Canned soup is bad enough. I can't even imagine canned soup without salt.
I am the soup cook in our family, and although it is never the same, I will in all modesty say that it is consistently damn good. In addition to chicken, beef or pork, lots of veggies, some lentils, and other good stuff, I always add a healthy dollop of heavy, dark soy sauce (which probably contains a bit of salt); occasionally, I add a can of condensed mushroom soup. Other than that, canned soup -- never.
Yummy.
Dan
28 - Clavos
Clavos, if language isn't an issue, how do you see the minority aspect of the population growth to have an impact?
Chiefly (and this is how I interpreted the quote regarding educating the minorities), our record until now in regard to the education of minority children is dismally neglectful; in most jurisdictions, they still don't receive as good an education as non-minority kids.
The author of the quote (and I) is concerned that, when we are all minorities, no one will receive a good education in this country; which come to think of it, is already happening - the evidence is right here on these threads, on a daily basis.
Language really is not an issue. Many who visit Miami come away thinking it is, because they hear Spanish spoken everywhere, and assume therefore that no one in Miami can speak English. This is not the case; with the exception of those very recently arrived, pretty much everyone can speak English, and cheerfully does so when they encounter a monolingual American.
Virtually 100% of immigrant children born here speak English, and sadly, often refuse to speak their parents' native language, even when addressed in it; out of childlike embarrassment of being thought "different."
The monolingualism of most Americans is provincial and reflects poorly on us, especially as the world increasingly shrinks and its nations become more interactive.
29 - Baritone
Being multi-lingual here in this country becomes more important everyday. Fast food managers are sought by the industry owing to the greater number of hispanics working in their stores. Roofing and other construction crews here in Indy are heavily hispanic.
On another level, college grads with real multi-lingual skills find far more doors open for them in the work place. Virtually any language can provide opportunities. Think of how important skill in any of the middle eastern languages could be. Chinese, Japanese, Russian. These languages probably head the list, but again, skill in most any language can be useful.
As I noted, my son is fluent in German and is living and working in the country. A friend of my younger son is fluent in French. She worked with what I was told is the largest law firm in the country as a liaison with their French clientele. She has worked for the UN in Switzerland. I'm sure there are many more dramatic examples.
As to the importance of the immigrant population becoming functionally literate in English; I do believe it is important for as many of them as possible to do so. Similarly, many urban blacks who have taken on local "Ebonics" (a dated reference, I suppose,) as their primary verbal mode of communication often find that it doesn't play well in the larger world or the workplace. Rather, it works against them often causing even more alienation.
When it comes down to it, the name of the game is communication. Over the years I think we have seen a certain amount of linguistic blending. Given enough time perhaps that will continue. But ultimately, as generations pass, I would guess that language differences will become less of a problem. The next 10 to 30 or 40 years may be the most difficult and crucial.
B
30 - Baritone
Dan, Baroniuse, etal,
I know canned soup is generally verboten. There are a few that aren't awful, but most just shouldn't be served to anyone with taste buds.
I am a soup nut. Almost nothing IMO beats a great bowl of soup. I've had a few over the years, but sadly, they are hard to find. I've managed to put together a few good ones myself (I was a cook in the army, so I learned how to create magic in the kitchen.)
A trip we made to Vienna a few years back turned out to be a soup wonderland. Landtmann's Restaurant across from the Vienna Rathaus served a killer cream beat borscht. Another small cafe, just outside the Belvedere Palace (the Klimt museum,) there served an astounding carrot soup. There were others. I've had some great soups in Germany as well.
Here in the states a couple of Chicago eateries provided some wonderful soups; the best being an asparagus soup at a little place which is now out of business. (Surprisingly, the Bravo chain of Italian restaurants serves a rather good asparagus soup.)
Of course I love a good lobster bisque and any number of mushroom soups. (Did I mention that I'm fat?) I once had a wonderful minestrone in a little place called The West Bank in the Village in NYC. Sadly, that place is also long gone.
My wife makes a fabulous gumbo and a turkey chili that is IMO better than any other chili I've ever had.
There used to be a great web site called (I think) soupcon.com maintained by a woman who traveled the world looking for soups, then publishing the best recipes on her site. Alas, I can't seem to find the site now. Either she may have given it up, or, perhaps I have the site name wrong.
Hmmm. It seems I have degreased, or I mean, digressed. Sorry Clav.
B
31 - Baritone
Sorry Bar, my fingers went nuts on me.
B
32 - STM
Speaking of salt ... I'm at work, and the restaurant in here had fresh deep-fried salt-and-pepper squid (calamari) on the lunch menu.
Mmm ... a bit of lemon aioli, chips (fries) with heaps of salt, a nice bottle of lime soda, and some pineapple. Total cost: $8.
Truly, if this country's not paradise and there's somewhere better, I must find out where it is.
33 - STM
Turkey chilli, eh Baritone?
That COULD be a reason to move to the states. They don't have such a thing here, sadly.
34 - Baritone
Yep. Turkey Chili. It's good stuff.
B
35 - troll
hot damn - a cook off...I'll put my bullshit stew up against your turkey chili any day
36 - Dave Nalle
Stan, there's plenty of fine Calamari coming out of the gulf of Mexico and being deep fried here in Texas.
I particularly like the tentacles.
Dave
37 - Franco
Excellent piece Clavos.
The question that stands out for me in this is if this also means that the concept of citizens feelings of entitlements from government gifts will change and grow larger with the coming changes you have pointed out.
I have always heard about this thing called democracy countdown. It is interesting to see it in print.
This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming.
Democracy Countdown: How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
''A democracy is always temporary in nature. It will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'
'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by authoritarian rule.'
'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'
'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith.
2. From spiritual faith to great courage.
3. From courage to liberty.
4. From liberty to abundance.
5. From abundance to complacency.
6. From complacency to apathy.
7. From apathy to dependence.
8. From dependence back into bondage.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election.
Number of States won by: Democrats: 19 Republicans: 29
Square miles of land won by Democrats: 580,000 Republicans: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by Democrats: 127 million Republicans: 143 million
Murders per 100,000 residents in counties won by Democrats: 13.2 Republicans: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: 'In total, the territory Republicans won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare.
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy' phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the 'governmental dependency' phase.
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million illegal immigrants entitlement seekers and they vote, and this trend were to continue well into the changes Clavos points to, then we can say goodbye to democracy as we have known it in the not too distant future.
There is a lot at stake knowing that an ever-increasing number of citizens in this country are demanding more entitlement to generous gifts from the public treasury.
The threat of government dependency is increasing with ever-liberal gift giving handout program coming to the forefront by our currently elected representatives in both the House and Senate.
WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE,
ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE
Not military bravery, but bravery not to become dependant and complacent. It has been this bravery that has lend the United States on to become the greatest story on nations in history.
If we are not responsible to this bravery, and we choose to elect leaders like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Read who are willfully leading a nations people into wallowing in government entitlements, thus cowardice, that leads to apathy and then dependence thus into bondage then we will learn it the hard way.
I believe it is more of a threat to the United States of American then anything else we face.
38 - Dave Nalle
Some fascinating points, Franco, but I think you're dead wrong on one of them. Illegal immigrants are NOT actually likely to become part of the problem you describe. Historically they have become fairly conservative adn highly productive members of society. Now I'm not talking about Salvadoran gang members, but about good, hard working Mexicans who come here for the opportunity. What we need to do is make sure we let the 'good' immigrants in and keep out the violent and non-productive ones.
Dave
39 - Ruvy
Ahem,
Having lived in St. Paul, Minn. for over two decades, I can state with authority that there is no Hemline University of any kind there. There may be a Hemline University for Dressmakers somewhere else, but don't ask me where.
Professor Olson is from the Hamline (pronounced ham'lin) University School of Law located on Snelling Avenue, which is part of Hamline University, a school founded founded members of the Hamline Church (I forget what denomination) in the 1850's when Minnesota was still a territory.
They have always manage to produce some strange law profs there....
40 - Ruvy
That was supposed to be a school founded by members of the Hamline Church....
41 - Baritone
troll,
Nah, cooking shouldn't be a pissing contest. Let's make both of them and enjoy.
B
42 - Franco
Dave
"Illegal immigrants are NOT actually likely to become part of the problem you describe."
I agree not all will, but if we have a government pushing gift programs on them, are they not going to take advantage of them, thus becoming government addicts? That is equally the point of my post.
"What we need to do is make sure we let the 'good' immigrants in and keep out the violent and non-productive ones."
That is the trillion-dollar statement of all.
With twenty one million illegal immigrants right now living in the US (that's 5 million more people then live in the entire country of Chile), seeing that they were not “let in” as you say as if we had the control, but they illegally came in and this proves the system is out of control.
Now, who in government today has the balls to go about weeding out the wheat from the chaff? Give me a break! That is way I made special reference to illegal immigrants.
What is the conseptural magnitude of twenty one million people illegally living in the US?
Look at the 20 Largest Urban Centers in the World
Mexico City, Mexico 19,907,000
New York City, U.S. 18,981,000
Mumbai (Bombay), India 18,905,000
São Paulo, Brazil 18,820,000
Delhi, India 15,785,000
Shanghai, China 15,000,000
Kolkata (Calcutta), India 14,769,000
Jakarta, Indonesia 13,968,000
Dhaka, Bangladesh 13,251,000
Buenos Aires, Argentina 12,754,000
Los Angeles, U.S. 12,471,000
Karachi, Pakistan 12,231,000
Lagos, Nigeria 11,915,000
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 11,744,000
Cairo, Egypt 11,482,000
Osaka, Japan 11,284,000
Manila, Philippines 11,113,000
Beijing, China 11,113,000
Moscow, Russia 10,778,000
There are as many illegal immigrants in the US as there are citizens of Beijing, China and Moscow, Russia combined.
How many of the US illegal immagrants are not paying taxes? How many childran are they having?
Until we get this under control, how do we even start to deal with all the further growth and immigration Clavos takes about while our liberal elected officials are babbling non-stop about ever increasing entitlements?
My post truly applies to all of the people in the US, as complacency and apathy and dependence knows no ethnicity. It is the enemy of us all, and we have a government leading us right into it.
Bottom line, i hope your right Dave.
43 - Dave Nalle
Franco, your 21 million figure is pretty debatable. It's more likely barely half that.
As for taxes, they are ALL paying sales taxes and if they are working most of them are paying social security and medicare and getting not a cent of it back, so the people as a whole are making a substantial profit on them.
It might take nothing more complex than to prove that they've been working steadily since they've been here. Let those ones stay. Let the rest leave.
Dave
44 - Franco
Ruvy, thanks for correcting my dress making spelling on Hamline.
"They have always manage to produce some strange law profs there."
Strange or not, they are interesting accounts.
45 - Rodney
I don't see how this is an issue or even much of a change. half of hispanics consider themselves white hispanics, In 2000 about 75% of hispanics spoke spanish in the home. So between non spanish speaking Hispanics and white people marrying spanish speaking hispanics I think the USA will end up with a lot of self defined white hispanics that can't speak spanish.
46 - Condor
I get assaulted for straying off course and you all are talking about hardening of the arteries?
What gives?
How can we all be minorities? When that happens there are no minorities. Rather than Balkinizing the landscape, at least get on the program with a common tongue. Am I still off course?
Speaking the same language is fundemental to keep our society flourishing. If you're talking about the browning of America, then I'm already several generations beyond that, I'm a heinz 57 and that's the way it is, no if's ands or buts, I could care less about that too. That's not important.
What's important (concerns me) is this:
We are complacent about the outside world. We are unconcerned for the most part about the welfare of our armed forces. The American people are great at giving lip service, especially since World War II, but we stop far short when it comes to sacrifice. Our Presidents )from JFK forward, have committed so many men and women to danger.
The hope of our time (in current parlance), the Democratic congress has sold out to the select few who own the nation's future and use it for their own retirement program.
Until we get to a point in our countries economic and political situation when we are severly impacted and therefore stunned into facing the facts that government has to start functioning as it was ment to, (i.e. protecting its citizens). Until then we are assaulted with lies and deceit and are insulted by the daily dosage of unpalatable political pabulum. We as country will fail well before 2050 and this article is moot.
Americans lust for entitlement and our political system for many decades is out to grow an empire, to force our will on other countries.
On top of that the U.S. citizens complicity in the current economic, political, and military crisis is sickening, we are in total domestic chaos, with leaders advancing misguided strategies and hazarding the nation into a global war of no fully comprehended strategies. This not solely Bushs fault. We (the voters) are culpable; with our appetite for un restricted access to resources, have allowed of military service from a defensive status into an economic enterprise.
Thats raw fact.
Without one language, one understanding, one ability to ensure that our government starts functioning properly, we're doomed.
Now, go eat your corn fed beef... and remember, that corn fed beef can only be raised for 90 days before heavy doses of antibiotics are required to sustain the animal until it gets to the slaughterhouse (90 percent of all antibiotics used in America are used by the meat industry). At least eat grass fed beef. Cows were made to eat grass, not corn, steriods, hormones and antibiotice. Mmmmm, what's for dinner America? It's beef that'll kill with with all the unnatural diet we consumers demand in order to get the fatted steer to the market. Consume that.
(did I just get off-subject again... darn!)
47 - Clavos
Condor,
As I noted above, I did not address language in the article, mostly because I don't see it as an issue; no one has ever made a serious attempt to change the "official" (actually, we don't officially have an "official" language) language of the USA to something other than English (although several attempts have been made to legally designate English as the Official language - a mistake, IMO, but another discussion). However, since language appears to be a particular concern of yours, here goes.
As noted in the article, the growth in what are today "minorities," especially Latinos, is explosive, to the point that whole cities (Miami perhaps more than most), are becoming, or have already become majority minority. As a natural consequence of this demographic shift. Miami is probably the nation's first truly bilingual city.
I believe this trend will only accelerate as we move forward into the future, but I do not think that the USA will ever reach the point where Spanish (or any other language) deposes English as the Lingua Franca of the USA. Why? Because no one (including the immigrants - of whatever ethnic or national origin) wants that to happen. Everyone (even new citizens) recognizes the value (indeed the necessity) for a language we ALL speak.
But that does not preclude the possibility that, in areas where one culture becomes dominant (as has already happened in Miami), there won't be widespread bilingualism; there inevitably will, and I see this as a good phenomenon. As I noted upthread, the traditional monolingualism of Americans not only casts us in a provincial light, it often actually works very strongly against us. A very relevant and contemporary case in point: we are engaged in a struggle centered on several Middle eastern nations, most of whom speak Arabic. Our intelligence services have had great difficulty in finding Arabic-speaking Americans to fill positions, which in the current world situation, are vital to our national security.
Another: How many nations send an ambassador to the USA who cannot speak English? Few, or even none. Yet we have been forced to send ambassadors to other countries who are unable to communicate in the host country's tongue. This not only reflects poorly on US, it again puts us at a distinct disadvantage when dealing with that country.
English will always be the unifying language in this country. In fact, It's likely to fulfill that function for the entire world one day.
I think the appearance of other languages in the weave of our national fabric is a very positive trend; one that will benefit us and enhance our standing in the world.
And perhaps one day, con el favor de Diós, we will get smart enough to actually start requiring the study of other languages in grade school, as most of the world already does.
48 - Dan Miller
Clav,
As self-appointed deputy assistant grammatical Nazi, permit me to suggest a very small modification to one of your sentences, as follows: But that does not preclude the possibility that, in areas where one culture becomes dominant (as has already happened in Miami), there
won'twill be widespread bilingualism; there inevitably will, and I see this as a good phenomenon.Cheers,
Dan
49 - Condor
Point taken. Looking inwardly decreases our strategic outlook and dependance on global production and could bring us back as a country of production rather than consumerism. By doing that we might be able to break the $800 billion annual trade deficit which currently exists.
Andrew Bachevich stated in his book THE LIMITS OF POWER....
"The pursuit of freedom, as defined in an age of consumerism, has induced a condition of dependence on imported goods, on imported oil, and on credit. The chief desire of the American people...is that nothing should disrupt their access to these goods, that oil, and that credit. The chief aim of the U.S. government is to satisfy that desire, which it does in part of through the distribution of largesse here at home, and in part through the pursuit of imperial ambitions abroad."
In other words, Bachevich maintains that our foreign policy is the result of a dependence on consumer goods and credit.
Inword consumerism might not be a bad idea to return to and flies in the face of the U.S. pressing its determination on other global governments. Thus the fall of our current imperialistic trends. During the 18th century when America was a production based economy the country was agast at the European imperialist model. Are we in fact, heading down that path and more importantly are we correct in doing so?
50 - Clavos
Counselor,
Never adverse to admitting my mistakes, I stand corrected.
You are right, Sir. Mea Culpa :>)
Allow me also point out a small discrepancy on your part:
While I agree with you, based on the evidence found in your articles and comments, that you are indeed a grammatical Nazi. However, I believe that, while performing the duties required of your self-appointment, you are better described as a grammar Nazi.
51 - Dan Miller
Clav,
Never adverse to admitting my mistakes, I stand corrected.
You are right, Sir. Mea Culpa :>)
And the same back at you, Sir. As you correctly observe, I am a grammar Nazi. I do have aspirations to become a grammatical one as well, and appreciate your assistance.
Dan
52 - Media Tycoon
Hispanic is a made up term and needs to be done away with. To illustrate, imagine if there was a term for all the people who lived in countries colonized by the British Empire. It is a nonsense concept.
53 - Clavos
It's a nonsense term even when used to denote Spaniards. They live on the Iberian peninsula, not the Hispanian peninsula.
Hispanic best suits Dominicans and Haitians; their island is named Hispaniola.
It (Hispanic) is however, the term the Census Bureau uses for peoples whose native language is Spanish.
These days, most of us prefer the term Latino/a.
54 - Condor
Wasn't it Nixon who first used the Hispanic term in a speech? Or did he use Latino? I forget, that was many moons ago.
55 - Clavos
Wasn't it Nixon who first used the Hispanic term in a speech?
I was incorrect in #53. According to Wikipedia, the word dates back to an earlier form, Hispania, which was the Roman name for what we now call the Iberian Peninsula:
Etymologically, the term "Hispanic" is derived from Hispania,[1] the name given by the ancient Romans to the Iberian Peninsula (present-day Spain, Portugal, Andorra and Gibraltar).
Hispanus was the Latin name given to the people of Hispania, the Hispano-Romans. The Hispano-Romans were composed of people from many different tribes of Hispania.[2] Some famous Hispani (plural of Hispanus) were Seneca the Elder, Seneca the Younger, Lucan, Martial, Prudentius, the Roman Emperor Trajan, the Roman Emperor Theodosius I, and also Magnus Maximus and Maximus of Hispania. The etymology of the words Hispanic, Spanish, and Hispano-Roman has the same Latin root name, Hispania, but the connotation of the original meaning of the root word has slightly different meanings in the multiple derived modern English words...
Wikipedia also says:
During the 1970s, the United States Government defined the term "Hispanic" to identify Latin American individuals, and their descendants, living in the U.S. regardless of race.
So, I was right about its modern usage having been imposed by the US government...
56 - Clavos
@#56:
Don't need to. Already got 'em from the (unbiased) horse's mouth: The US Census Bureau.
57 - STM
Dave: "I particularly like the tentacles."
Someone crueller than me might find something in that to reply to esoterically, but I'll just focus on the squid :)
Mate, the tentacles ARE nice, but the tubes (the body) are the best bit ... but they have to be cooked just right or they turn into f...ing pieces of tyre rubber.
Beyond that major aspect, salt and pepper squid is all in the seasoning. It has to be just spicy enough, but not over the top. Luckily, the woman who does the cooking in our canteen on the weekends is Chinese, a genius on the wok and knows exactly how to dish 'em up.
She does a mean sweet and sour pork, too. Not my favourite Chinese dish, as it always reminds me of something out of a can, but she fries the pork cubes in a light batter just right. And of course, her rice is always light and fluffy.
Because of her wok skills, the fact that she has also seen an alien spaceship land in her backyard (Quote: "I never tell my husband, he think I'm mad ... you like a Coke with that?") is taken, literally in this case, with a grain of salt.
58 - Dave Nalle
Mate, the tentacles ARE nice, but the tubes (the body) are the best bit ... but they have to be cooked just right or they turn into f...ing pieces of tyre rubber.
LOL. The first time I ever had squid my mother bought it at the Comissary in Moscow, where they only got what was seasonal or managed to get trucked there in one of the very few refrigirated trucks. She'd never cooked squid before, so based on the appearance she cooked the bodies as if they were pieces of beef liver. The inevitable result was that they weren't just tough, it was actually impossible to cut them with a knife.
A few years later in Greece I went to a cookout where they were frying whole baby squids in a cauldron over an open fire. They were amazing. The only bad part was the eyeballs, which they left on and you had to spit out - they turned hard as little marbles when cooked. But overall that meal redeemed squid for me.
Still like the tentacles best, though.
Dave
59 - Christopher Rose
Clavos, whilst in Spain I was told that the word Hispania pre-dates the Romans and was derived from some ancient Phoenician word that meant land of rabbits. Not sure how accurate that is, but it conjures up a sweet picture of ancient Phoenicians exploring the Med and coming across this new land they found full of bunnies.
60 - keekster
I couldn't agree more-The Other is US! As someone from an "Other' family, with an an "Other" daughter I find the story especially compelling. We have to start teaching ALL of our children that they are of one generation and one nation.
61 - j
everyone is a minority, just because white is the dominant skin color in the US doesnt mean anyone "not white" is a minority. If any white person travels to mexico they are now the minority. Liberals are idiots... they want to help people who really just need to learn to help themselves.