If Obama falsely and knowingly swore in an official document that he was born in Hawaii, he could perhaps be impeached and convicted on the basis of perjury. There is no evidence of which I am aware of his having taken an oath to that effect; if such evidence exists, and should it be proved that he was not born in Hawaii, perjury would probably be an impeachable offense.
In any event, for impeachment and conviction of "high crimes and misdemeanors," on the basis of perjury or (improbably) without a criminal statute, it would be necessary for President Obama to have had some clear knowledge that he was not a "natural born Citizen" when he assumed office. Where might evidence of such knowledge be found?
If Candidate Obama actually believed that he had not been born in the United States, but knowingly claimed falsely that he had been, evidence of that would certainly be relevant to his state of mind. Proving what someone "believes" is never an easy task, unless the believer has written or spoken of his beliefs. President Obama has probably never expressed, publicly at least, a belief that he is not a "natural born" citizen. It has been claimed (probably correctly) that President Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate is not probative of his birth in Hawaii, even though copies of it were posted on his campaign web site. It seems reasonable to presume that Candidate Obama was aware of the posting. Whether he believed that the Hawaiian birth certificate was spurious is a different question, and a big one.
If President Obama, as a youth, traveled on a passport issued by a foreign country, that could be probative that he was then a citizen of another country. There are two possibilities here:
1. Obama was a United States citizen but obtained and used a foreign passport. If he did not thereby intend to renounce United States citizenship, then he did not forfeit it.
2. Obama was not then in fact a United States citizen, and therefore used a foreign passport. This would be very good evidence that he knew that he was not constitutionally qualified as "natural born" when he sought and accepted the presidency.
There are many questions and few answers. In any event, it seems very unlikely that the present House of Representatives would impeach President Obama even if a newly discovered and clearly valid Kenyan birth certificate proved beyond question that he was born in Kenya; it also seems unlikely that the present Senate would convict. In practice, an impeachable offense boils down to what the House and the Senate say is it is. Former President Ford said substantially the same thing. Currently, the Democrats control both houses of the Congress, and President Obama seems to control the Democrats — if not completely, then still sufficiently to ward off a successful impeachment. The very first impeachment and conviction in United States history of a (Democratic) president seem so unlikely to occur while there is a Democratic Party majority that the subject may not even be worth discussing.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dave Nalle
Even if President Obama was born in Kenya, it's too late to do much about it.
We could stuff him back in the womb and try again...
But seriously, the entire "birther" controversy is basically manufactured by the media and the political left based on a few hardcore crazy people who they find it amusing to promote. No one on the serious political right takes clowns like Orly Taitz seriously.
Dave
2 - roger nowosielski
There were the nuts from the Right in the first place: and the Left just took advantage of it, but it did not "manufacture it."
3 - Ruvy
The "fourth estate," the press, let the country down very badly during the primaries and general election campaigns. Rather than pursue even tepidly the question of Candidate Obama's constitutional qualifications, the press grossly disparaged anyone who raised such questions and made sick jokes of the whole thing. That spectacle continues. If a valid Kenyan birth certificate were to surface, it might wake up the press; if that were not to do so, then nothing would.
It strikes me that the lines above could just as easily be applied to the both of you as to the salaried shmos who did all they could to suppress this story before last November in their paganistic bowing at the Obama idol in Washington.
And the lines still apply. If this certificate is indeed an honest one, as I believe it to be, then both of you refuse to wake up. At least someone with serious legal knoledge has attempted to investigate the possible outcomes of having a fraud, a spurious president, in the White House.
People who buy their heads in the sand and leave their derierres sticking up in the air with big round signs saying "kick me" deserve the hardest and nastiest kick that History and Reality can give them.
You have that coming to you gentlemen; you and all who agree with you. It will be richly deserved.
I repeat my prediction. This issue will grow, as did Watergate, and it weill be the issue that causes Obama to abandon the façade of democracy you have now and declare a dictatorship. He has already shown how much respect he has for truth in his behavior with respect to Honduras. He will trash your constitution and give you what you deserve for being stupid enough to nominate and elect him.
There is such a thing a criminal stupidity - and the two of you in your comments, Roger and Dave, are committing it.
4 - Ruvy
The line should read "People who bury their heads in the sand and leave their derierres sticking up in the air with big round signs saying "kick me" deserve the hardest and nastiest kick that History and Reality can give them."
And it's worth repeating because neither History nor Reality are very forgiving.
5 - handyguy
It's pretty shocking that an intelligent person like Mr. Miller would take birther claims seriously enough to write this [quite utterly useless] 4-page what-if.
This silliness has been debunked thoroughly enough for most people who possess brains. The 1961 newspaper clippings, the reassurances from Hawaii's state government [including the Republican governor] about the certificate itself are convincing.
Dave says voices on the left want to keep the 'controversy' alive. I think it's mostly cable-news opinion-heads who find it adds spice to their programs.
But for most of us:
Enough already.
6 - roger nowosielski
Who gives a shit, Handy? If they insist on making fools of themselves, let 'em.
7 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy,
Are you going to tell us why you think it is okay for you to comment on US matters whilst simultaneously thinking that nobody outside Israel can comment on events there? Not that anybody is paying attention to that, but it seems inconsistent...
8 - roger nowosielski
I happen to agree, Handy. Much ado about nothing. Perhaps the best that could be said for this article, it spares us a torturous reasoning process in the event some of the dimwits ever consider to escalate this, what I still regard as non-issue, to the level of impeachment.
As to the blame that's being affixed here on "the Fourth Estate," I think it's wrongheaded too. If anything, the Republican campaign ought to have raised a stink if Obama's "technical" qualification for the office of the president were seriously questioned. But it didn't, in no small measure, perhaps, because there were similar questions about McCain himself. And so, for all intents and purposes, it's a moot point by now - a live issue only for the die-hards.
Needless to say, the lunatic Republican contingent would be silent on the matter if Obama was more acceptable in their eyes. But enough said.
9 - Ruvy
If this certificate is indeed an honest one, as I believe it to be....
Apparently, I was punked on this document. But that does not mean that I do not think that Obama was born in Kenya. WorldNetDaily, which broke the news in the first place, has reported this certificate to be false.
Apparently, Kenya retained the status of a dominion for some months befor scrapping the governor-general and putting Jomo Kenyatta in as president. So, it was not a republic, which this document alleges.
10 - doug
Yeah. Why let facts get in the way of your beliefs
11 - roger nowosielski
So let's impeach him then and have Joe Biden serve the remainder of the term - although Hillary would be my first choice.
I have no problem with that.
12 - Baronius
This whole thing is ridiculous. Obama is a native-born American with documentation to prove it.
That being said, Roger, the first I ever heard of this was out of the Clinton and Paul camps. And Miller's speculation on the legal fallout is interesting. And Ruvy, I love ya, but you really could have earned some increased credibility around here by staying clear of the birther bandwagon.
13 - roger nowosielski
Well, I don't doubt it about the Clinton camp as she was in a dogfight with Obama. But she couldn't press the issue as a Democrat. If anything, the McCain camp ought to have done it if they thought it might stop Obama.
But since they didn't, it is a moot point. And yes, Miller did run up the gamut.
14 - Baronius
Obama is a Hawaiian. Roger, we don't often agree, so let's take a moment to bask in the harmony.
-- sigh --
15 - roger nowosielski
I am all for it, Baronius.
16 - handyguy
Roger sez:
Since they [the McCain campaign] didn't [make use of the birth certificate 'issue'], it is a moot point.
No, it was never a 'point' at all, Roger. Don't even give it that much cred. Pleez. It was always a tinfoil-hat-conspiracy-theory bit of wackiness.
17 - roger nowosielski
I don't, Handy. Just saying it's a moot point so I don't see why you keep on resurrecting it.
18 - handyguy
I count 7 comments by you on this thread, vs. 3 by me, including this one. How am I 'resurrecting' the issue? I commented mostly on how totally unnecessary Dan's article is.
19 - Bliffle
To the numerous 'birthers' I count among my friends and relatives, it is moot whether BHOs HI birth certificate is valid or not, since Hawaii is NOT actually a state!
That's right, any way you cut it BHO is NOT legally president of the USA!
It turns out, according to my sources, that this whole idea of Hawaiian statehood is a hoax created 60 years ago by a sinister character named "Steve Garret" who tricked a bunch of congressmen by having some Hula dancers wave their skirts in front of them. They say they have documents, proof positive, that this is true.
Once the truth is out it will blow the lid off this whole "Obama" conspiracy!
(BTW, I give no credit at all to the theory advanced by certain leftie fag commie limp-wrist pinko acquaintances of mine that Hawaiian statehood is moot since they have "incontrovertible proof" that Kenya IS a USA state! They dared me to prove it isn't true and I couldn't! Can you?)
20 - Clavos
No one has mentioned Dan(Miller)'s central and most important point about the whole thing:
So what?
21 - roger nowosielski
#18
My comments were no different in import.
22 - roger nowosielski
It's an awful long way to get around to saying that.
23 - Clavos
Well, compared to your Hemingwayesque prose, yes.
24 - WTF?
Humor from Bliffle?
WTF?
25 - roger nowosielski
I'm working on it, Clav. Not there yet.