I’ve been reading a lot of the views and interacting with some of those supporting radical Islam, trying to figure out where all the hate and discontent is coming from.
I see a huge amount of denial (or possibly ignorance) when it comes to Arabs' (and/or their supporters') views of what’s going on in the Middle East concerning Israel and Western Civilization. In seeing that denial, I have to ask myself; as a staunch supporter of Israel’s right to exist and the continuation of Western Civilization, am I missing something? Am I the ignorant one in denial?
The Arabs are pissed, obviously. But why? They say they want their land back. And they say (repeatedly) that they want Israel “wiped off the map.” The land was taken (again) from the Arabs over a half a century ago by the Jews. That same land was supposedly promised to the Jews in the Bible by God. Biblical entries show that King David brought the Jewish people together around 1000 B.C., in the land that is currently (still) being contested in the Middle East.
But it goes beyond just wanting their land back. I used to believe that radical Islamics hated Western Civilization because of the freedom of religion and civil rights we exalt and cherish and much to do with the US policy in the ME, and that the recent attacks on Israel were simply a by-product of that hatred, coupled with the land dispute that’s been going on for so long.
But what if the main cause of violence and hatred was much more simplistic that that?
I’ve looked at both sides over the last few months, and in my opinion, the Arabs are completely dysfunctional. Dysfunctional in every sense of the word. So dysfunctional that it makes them inutile, counterproductive, and dangerous to their neighbors.
I don’t think it would matter if Israel submitted to the demands of Radical Islamic Muslims. I don’t think it wouldn’t matter if Arabs had controlled that land for the last 50 years and the Jews never raised arms against them. It just wouldn’t matter.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - moonraven
You had the hypocritical nerve to ask:
"In seeing that denial, I have to ask myself; as a staunch supporter of Israel’s right to exist and the continuation of Western Civilization, am I missing something? Am I the ignorant one in denial?"
Of course you are missing something. Everything.
God--which does not even exist--is the real estate agent that gave you the land of Palestine?
If I didn't think you were dangerous, I would be falling off my chair laughing.
2 - zingzing
you really have no grip on reality, matt. i would go more into detail, because i know that's no good argument, but i doubt you would listen anyway.
suffice to say, the arab problem runs much deeper than "they're crazy!" it's got nothing to do with some perceived muslim hatred of freedom. that's just dumb. it's got everything to do with israel, western intervention, religion (all three of them) and a people who have been exploited by those who run business and religion. and no, muslims do not find lying and stealing to be "normal."
if you consider what you have written to be productive in any way, you need to have your head examined. i really can't believe it was posted. it's ignorant, moronic and frankly racist.
3 - wdufkin
The Arabs have failed to rise up from savagery, barbarism, and hatred. They refuse to move into a reasonable state of modern development and civility like most of the rest of the world has done over the centuries. At the same time they want to move towards a global Islamic Rule. And to be honest, I don’t think they intend to do it peacefully.
You've expressed something I've been thinking myself. Many living in the Arab world do not seem to be civil. Even if God didn't exist and the United States really was'nt the Great Satan, they would still seem rather primitive in culture, not that that makes them of lesser value. It is rather savage cruel to train children to want to die, in the name of a god that does not exist. I think that is moronic and frankly I don't think a more racist people exist than they themselves.
4 - Tukta
I agree with Matt,
Arabs do possess rich resources, and 99% of the middle East. Isreal on the other hand composes 1% of mainly worthless desert. Isreal in just 40 to 50 years has risen to be economically, socially, and politically successful.
Such creativity exists in the arab world, and the power of the human spirit is a treasure they no doubt possess. The only problem is that ever time one of there citizens uses there brain to think independantly they are murdered or imprisioned.
Any time they use there "judicious" reasoning ability to dicifer why western states enjoy such a higher standard of living versus the megga poverty the average arab lives in. Upon raising such logical arguments they are killed, or "disapear" from mainstream society.
So what you have is an ideology that kills off its own creativity, murders the judicious individuals who have the wisdom to make the neccisary adjustments in there thought.
The middle east was not always so backwards and violent. Before the Arab invasion that brought the lunacy of islam upon them Persia for instance alredy enjoyed a flourishing society. King Cyrus the great wrote the "worlds" first declaration of human rights ever.
Afganistan was a flourishing Buddhist society, with great libraries, and meditation masters; contributing to the emotional maturity and development of those people.
The only legacy Islam has brought the world, and societies/ individuals they come upon is "misery and death"
Misery and death with out end; the end will come when Islam is eradicated from the human concious.
5 - Dave Nalle
suffice to say, the arab problem runs much deeper than "they're crazy!"
To be fair, Matt didn't dismissively say they're crazy, he categorized them as essentially culturally and economically retarded, and the evidence does back up that position. His point about income disparity among Arabs is a very important one, IMO.
Dave
6 - zingzing
dave, i wasn't quoting him. i was paraphrasing. obviously, two words won't do the whole argument justice. by any stretch of the american imagination, most of the world is "economically retarded." a good portion of the population is oppressed and poor.
truth be told, i wish there was an edit function on blogcritics. i overreacted a bit, i suppose.
i never seemed to read "radical" before "islam..." it just skipped right by me. so, i'll take back the last paragraph of my first comment. just ignore it.
but i do think the history of islamic-western relations plays heavily into just how radicalized certain portions of islam have become. from the colonial days to our economic exploitation to sticking israel in their territory to our constant military intervention, we have created this monster. maybe it was there in some form already, but we sculpted it into its present shape.
7 - gail scott
I agree, except for believing Israel should NOT exist. The poster for Islam might be the female clothing. I had to wear a black thing for hours once. Can't see, can't breathe and it is really hot in the desert.
8 - Matt
zingzing,
I'm glad you decided to go back and read my post. I hope you read more than every second or third word the second time around.
I mean, I guess I didn't make it clear enough, and that it's hard to see that "radical" part. even though it's in the title and all over the post. I can see how it's easy to miss.
I never insinuated that the Arabs were economically retarded. I said there was a huge gap between the rich and the poor, and made reference to how many of the rich got rich.
As for the Islamic/Western relations and Israel, I believe I stated very clearly about the Arabs that they're pissed because "They say they want their land back." Perhaps you missed that, too?
Finally, Radical Islamic Muslims have been trying to spread Islam radically for centuries, not decades. Granted, the other religions used to do it the same way, but they've, for the most part, grown out of it over the last few hundred years. RIMs have not.
It seems you got a bit overly worked up after not reading my post. Reading and comprehension are key, and I would appreciate you not flaming me until you have read AND understood what I've written.
9 - Arch Conservative
"What's Really Wrong with Radical Islamic Muslims?"
Fucked if I know. I don't really give a damn either.
I'd rather we kill every last one of them then try to help them with their "issues."
People say that we shouldn't be the world's policeman. that's fine..then we also shouldn't have to be the world's psychotherapist either.
You wanna live in a third world shithole muslim theocracy you say? that's fine but the minute take any step toward harming American interests or citizens we're gonna kill you. We're not going to ask you how you fell about this or that, we're just gonna drop a bomb on you or put a bullet in your head. Don't like it? Too fucking bad! Don't fuck with us then!
10 - whataworld
Yes, radicals are everywhere, you've made that clear. Ever thought that you might be the one needing psycho analysis "Arch Conservative".
11 - Arch Conservative
Well whataworld let's do a little comparison between myself and RIMs shall we
Threatened to kill people over a cartoon"
AC - No
RIMs - Yes
Hijacked planes and used them to kill 3,000 civilians:
AC - No
Rims - yes
Murdered a Dutch filmaker named Theo van Gogh because he made a movie that depicted them in a negative light:
AC - No
RIMs - Yes
Emigrated to another nation and demanded that that nation change it's culture and law to adhere to the beliefs of a specific religion:
AC - No
RIMs - Yes
Bombed a train in spain killing spanish civilians:
AC - No
RIMs - Yes
Rioted in France:
AC - No
RIMs - Yes
If I need psychoanalysis it's not because I pose a threat to society at large as RIM's do. I hate leftists probably as much as RIMs hate Jews and Americans but I can assure you I'm not going to start killing them anytime soon whataworld.
12 - moonraven
Dave says the EVIDENCE?????????????????????????? indicates Arabs are culturally and economicall retarded. WHAT evidence?
What do those phrases even mean¡ Sound like they were coined by a ten-year-old.
The US has NO culture whatsoever.
The average Arab in the Gulf States has 100 times the net worth of you jokers posting here.
Give me a break, ignorant savages.
13 - Lee Richards
I have no idea how you can ever hope to have a civilized dialogue with people (RIM) who think nothing of taking human life--other's or their own--because their fictional diety told them to.
I have no idea why we have allowed Bush and Congress to create MORE of them by mucking up the Middle East.
14 - Mohjho
The muslims of the mid east are oppressed from the top down by kings, petty dictators and nutty religious conservatives. Their leaders have to give the people someone or something to hate or the population will tear them apart.
15 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I read through the article and the comments. We get the usual from Bing (aka Arch Conservative), the usual from Marthe (aka Moonraven) and the usual from zingzing (aka zingzing).
From what I can see, reading about the Arab world, their economy(ies) seem(s) dysfunctional, their governments seem terribly corrupt, the way they treat their women, as well as their their donkeys, awful and pretty much beyond the pale of human behavior, IMHO. But, that doesn't change the fact that one can sit in the J-lem Central Bus Station and see young Arab women eating at a table, laughing and giggling as though their men did not treat them like animals, and see Arab women waving at you from their rooftops in Jebel Mukabr as their children play on summer afternoons...
First of all, they are people, just like I am a person, and some of the dehumanizing comments on this comment thread do not belong. But a culture of killing young women for the crime of being raped is not, in my opinion, a culture that civilized humans indulge in. If this is the 100 times more culture that the Arabs have that others seem to lack (according to Marthe at comment #12, anyway) they can keep their damned culture. AND KEEP OUT OF MY COUNTRY.
16 - StaciSchoff
Wow -- this might be the most uneducated, simplistic view of the middle east conflict that I've ever read save for Ann Coulter's.
17 - alessandro Nicolo
Zing, "maybe it was there in some form already, but we sculpted it into its present shape." Very mportant line you inserted here. Yes, the Arab world was already in descent well before the arrival of the West after the discovery of oil. Israel only hastened it and became a convenient scapegoat to mask their own fall. As for the economy, and his ties into Moonraven, there is no shortage of proof and statisitcs and realities of the Arab world's steadfast decline. In the 1920s the Arab world was ahead by every reasoanble economic statistic of Asia. By the 1950s Asia witnessed its own econoic miracle. Lookt at it now. Look at the Arab world. It's a amazing what a little enlightened leadership can do. As for the Arabs being "uncivilized" I disagree. While compromise is not their forte they are a product of bankrupted Arab governance. Give them true governance and they can be just as functional as any. Just look at the ones who come here and adapt very well - assuming they don't fall prey to banal conspiracy theories.
18 - moonraven
Ruvy:
1. It is NOT YOUR country. Get over it. You do not have a country.
2. I did not say 100 times more culture--I said 100 time greater NET WORTH--that's money, assets, moolah, plata, lana.
19 - alessandro nicolo
I know I shouldn't be bothering but what they hell.
"The US has NO culture whatsoever."
Wrong. If America has no culture, then so does none on the continent. Enlighten me: how do you define culture?
"The average Arab in the Gulf States has 100 times the net worth of you jokers posting here."
Wrong. Besides being ridiculously presumptuous, no they do not. A tight, small circle (known as an oligarch) does. Arabs are great merchants but the oil profits stay at the top - which causes much misery at the bottom. Enlighten me: produce the figures/report that support this.
"It is NOT YOUR country. Get over it. You do not have a country."
A comment in poor taste indeed. Yes it is his country; and a bloody -albeit imperfect - successful one in a sea of madness. Huff and puff until thy Kingdom Come....
"Give me a break, ignorant savages."
Actually, we should reverse this.
20 - moonraven
THE FACT THAT THE US HAS NO CULTURE DOES NOT IMPLY THAT WE HAVE NO CULTURE HERE IN LATIN AMERICA.
Or are all those pyramids and other archaelogical sites--including a group 3 kilometers from my house--just mirages?
21 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Wow -- this might be the most uneducated, simplistic view of the middle east conflict that I've ever read save for Ann Coulter's.
Staci, if you want analysis of the Middle East, try my blogsite, or sample some of the sixty or so articles I've written for Blog Critics Magazine, or some of the 3,000 comments I've left on articles hy others on Iran, or the Middle East.
And who is Ann Coulter that I should give a rat's ass about what she thinks?
22 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"'It is NOT YOUR country. Get over it. You do not have a country.'
A comment in poor taste indeed. Yes it is his country; and a bloody -albeit imperfect - successful one in a sea of madness. Huff and puff until thy Kingdom Come...."
Thanks for the back-up, Alessandro. By the way that kingdom is coming - sooner than you might imagine...
23 - alessandro Nicolo
So you equate "culture" with having archeological sites? That's my point, Latin America has its history, while America has devised its own style of culture. American culture is New World culture. And there isn't a society on our great continent that comes anywhere close to America's contributions and achievements- not Canada, not Mexico, not Chile, not Argentina, not Brazil - to world affairs and history; from science to literature and arts to sports to philosophy and so on. This implies it does have a culture in a modern context. Its civilization is young but deep in substance. Just because you choose to deny this does not make your stance correct. They are the leaders of this continent. You may not like it but it does not logically follow that you conclude they have no culture without defining the parameters to which you claim this . All you're doing is engaging in weak sophistry.
24 - moonraven
You ignorant savages are not the leaders of anyone.
Get over yourself.
You don't go anyplace except to WalMart and the malls.
You don't speak any other languages, and you speak English poorly (I stopped hiring folks from the US as English teachers 10 years ago because they did not speak the language.)
You have no history--except that of genocide.
You have no street life--all you do is sit inside and watch t.v.
There is no US cuisine.
Who are you kidding?
25 - alessandro Nicolo
Are you referring to me? In case you are, let's see and FYI: first, I am Canadian and live in Quebec of Italian heritage. So, I speak three languages.
Second, I frequent the U.S., France and Italy for personal and business reasons. As luck would have it, I am surrounded by friends and family who travel to the places I can't go to. I studied History and paint my toe nails red.
Third, you are nothing but massively presumptuous and judgemental - to the point I am not sure if you're joking. And when asked to engage in real debate you dance (poorly I might add) and move on to infantile rantings and musings.
For example, I have no clue what you are referring to when you claim "you're not the leaders of anyone" and it is difficult to discern exactly what you're so fricken upset abou you go off on frivolous tangents. Trust me, I would not want to lead you into anything. Regardless, there has to be a better way to convey and express it.
Let's talk about cuisine shall we? Oh, I'd love to discuss culinary history and practices with you. Right here, right now I challenge you to a proper culinary debate. Let's see if you can put your spices where your mouth is. If you're so damn good at attacking let's see you defend those assertions.
Alas, the joke is on you. In your case, ignorance is bliss to boot. Where in the world do you come off speaking in such a manner? You teach people? Ugh.