Is there a political Gatorade prescription for "conservative fatigue"?
What’s breaking?
The GOP is in trouble.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Is there a political Gatorade prescription for "conservative fatigue"?
What’s breaking?
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - RogerMDillon
You don't like the Botox allusions? Why not? I mean, it's something only Democrats apparently because Republicans have no vanity.
And Kennedy causing the death of a woman and lying about it is hilarious. Of course, they don't want to deal with the number of deaths Bush's lies have caused.
27 - Matthew T. Sussman
Who knew a simple topic like politics would turn ugly?
Knock me over with a feather.
28 - Repubilcan in Princeton
Hey wait a minute... The Great Stain Maker - Bill Cliton has already set precedent -- remember its ok to lie!
29 - Arch Conservative
Roger ...once again Bush didn't lie but I know that you think repeating it over and over makes it true.....
Yes the GOP is faltering....their leadership and handling of the nation have been less than satisfactory.......
HOWEVER.....
Being that the Democrats have nothing to offer but criticism of the GOP.. I mean let's face it the Dems don't have any to offer int he way of solving any of America's problems, I think that you guys are jumping the gun on the 06 elections
In the fall of 2004 I kept hearing about how Kerry was going to win because the war was so unpopular and messy... Bush's poll numbers were low......the economy was in the tank..........yet Kerry still lost and the Democrats obviously haven't learned anything form this loss as thier main appeal to voters is "we're not republicans"
If that's the best they can do between now and november they're not going to take control of anything.
30 - Jet in Columbus
Speaking about liars Princeton and who invented them let's just overlook Nixon... Right?
31 - RogerMDillon
Repuke, go back a little farther.
"Read my lips, 'No New Taxes.'"
Obviously you're in the city and not the college.
32 - Jet in Columbus
Arch with Republicans kissing up to Jerry Falwell and acting as puppets for the moral majority, and Bush outsourcing and dismanteling NASA so he can have a moonbase named after him, the Dems may have a better chance than you think...
Solus mei sententia
Jet
33 - RogerMDillon
"I know that you think repeating it over and over makes it true"
Actaully, I'm mocking your continual foolish and lame responses. When you make a serious arguement, which will be the first time, than you'll get a serious response. Anthony Grande thinks you are immature and that your comments look like bad parodies of conservatives.
34 - Dave Nalle
I've said this enough times before that it shouldn't need to be said again, but here it is for all of those who thought I was confused or lying or whatever other silly shit they said about my comment on our rights being in danger if Democrats took office.
Here's the difference between the two political parties in a nutshell. Republicans are willing to abuse very specific and limited rights of a few individuals on a short term or extra-legal basis to achieve their goals. Democrats are willing to permanently legislate away basic rights from the entire population with no hope of redress.
In short, the Republicans are willing to run a pragmatic and high-handed state which respects the rights of the people as a whole and generally leaves them alone. The Democrats believe in a state which literally controls and determines the day to day nature of the lives of the people.
Yes, there are a few nutcases in the GOP who want to limit the rights of select groups to engage in 'immoral' behavior, but that's a far cry from seeing the lifestyle of most Americans as inherently immoral and wanting to socially restructure the entire country, which many Democrats believe in.
Dave
35 - Heckler
And again, Dave states emphatically: "Republicans are willing to abuse very specific and limited rights of a few individuals on a short term or extra-legal basis to achieve their goals. Democrats are willing to permanently legislate away basic rights from the entire population with no hope of redress."
Yet offers not one shred of any kind of evidence nor proof to back up the bullshit talking point allegations.
Just doing his job to stir up as much shit against his opposition as possible. Stick to talking about actual facts, Dave. You're much better at that.
36 - Arch Conservative
Well isn't that basically what you do Roger? Repeat tired leftists catchphrases over and over?
"Bush lied, soldiers died."
mmmmOK where's your proof?
I mean it's not as if the CIA, British Intel, high ranking members of the Iraqi govt/military, Russian Intel, and Slick Willie himself said there were WMD's in Iraq right?
But Bush is the only one who lied right?
I think you have it right Nalle.
With regard to who you think the GOP is beholden to Jet.........
Don't you think American voters are disgusted by whom the Dem party is beholden to? ACLU, Illegal aliens, abortion mills, homosexual interest groups, anti-christian atheists, terrorist appeasers and apologizers, race baiting meglomaniacs...etc....
While the American public is neither far left or far left I fail that is fair to say that based on the elections within the past ten years they are slightly right of center as a whole.
37 - Dave Nalle
Sorry Heckler, I thought the examples to back up my general points were pretty damned obvious.
It's the difference between the Plame affair and the Kelo case in Connecticut. The difference between outing a CIA agent for political reasons and destroying the lives of hundreds and placing the property rights of every citizen in limbo.
It's the difference between 'abusing' the rights of a few terrorists by monitoring their phonecalls and banning SUVs and taking away the rights of a whole nation to drive safe and capacious vehicles if they're willing to pay the fuel cost.
Sorry, thought these things were pretty damned obvious.
Dave
38 - Arch Conservative
Nalle they're only interested in examples that advance the idea that conservatives want to take away our rights and freedoms while Democrats want to preserve them.
Shame on you for not providing examples that do such .
39 - Eric Berlin
Arch is right, as a whole the nation is fairly centrist. Whoever sells that centrism better tends to win. The GOP has gotten awfully good at doing this while scaring the bejeezus out of people in the process.
Dave - I find your argument baffling, but we usually tend to differ on most things political. (It seems to boil down: it's okay if our side breaks the law because we are Good and do it for the Right Reasons. The other side is Bad because they will legally do things that are Bad.)
Overall: the stupid jokes are really nothing more than stupid, and the "jabs" are mind-searingly tired.
40 - Heckler
Obvious perhaps, but still with no basis in objective reality.
Could you please cite or link to this Bill to take away your SUV that you appear to be afraid of?
I tend to agree with you about Kelo, but fail to see how that is part of the democratic agenda, could you point out where in the party platform the removal of personal property rights is? I must have missed it when they shifted from democrats to outright socialists, decent straw man though.
And outing a CIA operative knowingly is a felony, and could be considered treason in times of war, especially by UCMJ standards if applicable.
I do love how you are trying to compare torture and violation of federal laws (FISA and 1943 communications act), whcih is being done by this administration, and legally "justified" by the sitting Attorney General, with some ficticious paranoid raving about the evil dems trying to take away your HumVee.
Time to stop sniffing glue, Dave, seriously. We are beginning to get worried about you, and will need to hold an intervention if this keeps up.
41 - Arch Conservative
I'll just add another blatant example from our campuses and universities.
Liberals claim to be for free speech and they consider the displaying of a picture of the virgin mary covered in dung as art, they consider speeches railing against all things conservative, republican or christian as shining examples of free speech.
Yet the liberals who run these idoctrination camps called colleges often say not to conservative guest speakers, try to silence any right of center expression by students, and encourage students to harass conservative speakers when they actually do come to speak.
In anutshell most liberals only believe in free speech for like minded people. everyone else must be silenced.
42 - Heckler
And again Arch, show me any example of someone trying to stifle the First Amendment, and I'll be right there next to you fucking them up.
But a lot of people keep citing this kind of shit with no back-up, just vague generalities.
Yet the headlines every day show clear examples of what the current Republicans are doing. And that is the kind of shit everyone shoudl be pissed about.
43 - Dave Nalle
I find it hard to believe that people like Eric and Heckler are so blinded by loyalty that they don't see the platform of massive rights abuses lurking under the surface in the Demcoratic party just waiting to surface. Do you not listen to Air America? Do you not read DailyKos? Are you not familiar with Code Pink, Cindy Sheehan, MoveOn.org and the other forces driving your party towards a socialist agenda which will destroy all of the values which even you, as Americans hold dear?
As someone in the GOP I am fully aware of how a party can get subverted by extremists offering votes in exchange for policy changes which seem acceptable but lead to excesses. From the outside I can see the same thing happening to the Democrats who are incredibly vulnerable to the subversion of the extremists who offer to bring them back into power at the cost of just a few policy changes...and then a few more...and then a few more...it's incremental and the end result is a transformed state, a kinder, better and less free nation.
Dave
44 - Dave Nalle
And again Arch, show me any example of someone trying to stifle the First Amendment, and I'll be right there next to you fucking them up.
Let me help you out here. In response to the activities of campus conservatives and christian groups, almost every university in the nation has implemented rules restricting any form of protest or political activity to 'free speech zones', and banning those activities anywhere else on campus, despite the fact that no real disruption was going on.
Dave
45 - Heckler
Dave, again you mistake me for a democrat. I'm not, never been registered to any party, but have been a registered voter for 28 years now.
So no, I don't listen to that, or go to those websites.
To flip the script, do they really represent their constituents? Careful with your answer, or you will have to stipulate that Savage, Limbaugh, Hannity, Duke, Liddy, Falwell, Dobson, et al accurately represent the GOP.
So spare me the weak attempts and bring your "A" game, you know , the one with facts to be discussed or interperted. This kind of ad hominem straw man bullshit is beneath you. You make assertations of the worst kind with nothing to back it up, and then make excuses for today's headlines. How long have you been converted to the Dark Side by Darth Rove?
And lay off the Ibogaine, remember what it did to Eagleton.
46 - Arch Conservative
Our culture is rife with examples and usually acknowledged by anyone who is not part of that liberal thuggery going on but I will humor you anyway Heckler.
Condaleeza Rice was recently invited to speak at Boston College. Several faculty objected to her speaking there and tried to have the invitation rescinded. There reason was that she did not represent the jesuit values of BC. I guess all the pro-choice guest speakers they had did though huh. Anyhow a number of faculty members tried to stop her from speaking there. When they couldn't they encouraged students to go to the protest and cause a ruckus so as not to allow Ms. Rice to be heard. One professor, Steve Almond, even resigned over it. He was one of the professors who encouraged students to harass Ms. Rice while she was speaking.
There are countless other examples Heckler.
47 - Heckler
And those students and faculty were excercising their own Free Speech rights, as well as their right to organize and demonstrate, were they not?
It seems to me the Professor who resigned over it can be called nothing less than a man of principle, willing to put his tenure where his mouth is.
Ever hear of Tom Paine?
Bad example, Arch. I get what you are trying to say, and can agree that there are definately kooks on both sides of the aisle.
But my point here is that Dave was trying to compare what HAS been done by a morally bankrupt party, selling out to the Religious Right for some votes, auctioning off the Nation to the K street project, legalising waterboarding (which even the Maelificia of the Inquisition calls torture, and if anyone does you would think the INquisition knew what torture was), violating the 4th amendment and holding citizens without due process for years (Padillo).
There's more, but this kind of shit was being compared to nebulous assertions of what MIGHT happen if the democrats take ONE branch of government?
Please fucking spare me the scare mongering bullshit, and give me back checks and balances?
Then I can heckle both sides again.
48 - Eric Berlin
New topic: who thinks the GOP will lose the House -- why or why not?
49 - Dave Nalle
So no, I don't listen to that, or go to those websites.
Perhaps you ought to. Seriously. If you are defending the dems to the point that I mistook you for one here, you really, really need to get up to speed on their agenda.
To flip the script, do they really represent their constituents?
They represent a large and influential constituency within the party and one which the more typical members listen to and take seriously. That's all it takes.
Careful with your answer, or you will have to stipulate that Savage, Limbaugh, Hannity, Duke, Liddy, Falwell, Dobson, et al accurately represent the GOP.
Bringing up these examples demonstrates some of your ignorance. I'm not sure that Savage and Duke even ARE republicans. In fact, I'm positive Savage isn't, and I know Duke used to be a Democrat. And others like Limbaugh and Liddy basically support a pretty hands-off and rights-preserving view of government.
Dave
50 - Heckler
Eric, with only 15 seats to take instead of the 40 the republicans needed in '94, and with the same kind of poll numbers (but reversed) and with an even less popular president...
Yes, I do think the democrats take the House in november, the Senate is too close ot call yet.
51 - Dave Nalle
Yes, Heckler, I'm using the problems in the GOP as a point of reference. The point being that what happened in the GOP and which it is still struggling to recover from, is set to happen to the Democrats if they get into power and I don't think they have the strength in their more traditional elements to recover from it.
Dave
52 - Jon Sobel
Wasn't the Kelo case decided by a rightist Supreme Court? If that, and P.C. excess at colleges, are the only examples that Dave and Arch can come up with to support their position that a Democratic-controlled government would somehow "take away our rights," then it's a pretty poor position. What are some other examples? Also... colleges have been havens of P.C. excess for at least a couple of decades. It hasn't seemed to have had much effect on who voters decide to put in Washington.
53 - zingzing
wait, so she spoke?
54 - zingzing
jesus, this is going fast. 53 was to 46.
55 - Heckler
Well Dave, after the republicans get their own shit back in order, and are NOT running the entire government in single party unaccountable mode, then we can talk about how bad the dems are.
Until then, it appears that you are just pre-emptively flinging mud, which is of course the Rove strategy as outlined in the last two weeks talking points from the WH.
So, pardon me for mistaking you for one of the drones, it's just because you are making the same noises.
seek professional help, we'll get you off the model glue yet.
56 - Dave Nalle
Heckler, the GOP's failures have created this opportunity for the radical left to advance their agenda, that's true. But opposing the nightmare before it comes is essential, because after we're under the boot of the new order it's going to be a lot harder to get our rights back.
Dave
57 - Jon Sobel
after we're under the boot of the new order it's going to be a lot harder to get our rights back.
Them's fightin' words... why won't you fight? What are the rights that are going to be taken away?
58 - Disillusioned-
The GOP has only itself to blame for the current mess, having gotten it wrong on nearly every front. I am a life long Republican whose never ever voted for a single Dem. But for those of us who find the ultra left wing radical socialists of the Dem party (Pelosi, Boxer, Schumer, Clinton, Conyers, Rangel) repulsive, we are left with no where to turn. The list of GOP follies is endless: (1) lied us into war (when such lies were unnecessary to justify toppling Sadam ); (2) showed utter hypocrisy as to federalism with the Terry Schiavo debacle: (3) squandered a surplus and set up deficits for at least another decade by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest folks and entities, showing once and for all that (a) the GOP hates the poor and middle class and (b) cares not iota about fiscal restraint if such restraint impedes their reverse Robin Hood mentality: (4) despite massive deficits and NO worthwhile trade,industrial or jobs policy, the GOP fervently supports the repeal of the anti-dynasty tax (Estate Tax) which will be a multi TRILLION dollar gift to the super rich over time and further exacerbate deficits; (5) most recently, they refuse to get serious and tough on criminal aliens because American business beleives its entitled to dirt cheap labor (6,000 new border agents is pathetic) - if Bush were SERIOUS the number wuld be at least 200,000 and the policy for those crossing illegally would be shoot to kill; and (6) taking an ostrich approach to environmental problems, denying the patently obvious like global warming and ozone depletion while providing tax breaks to the oil oligarchy the GOP created.
Dems are worse and represent every nutty fringe group in the country by supporting indefensible things like gay marriage and affirmative action while insisting 14 year olds be able to obtain abortions without even parental notice. Theyre even against mandating English as the national language yet want 75% of us to fully support and subsidize the bottom 20% (1/2 of whom are illegal), except they leave the top 5% of elites alone (since Dems are hypocrites just like the GOP). De,s would allow every illitarte immigrant in because the Dem party REQUIRES a permamnet helpless underclass to stay relevant. The GOP, on the other hand, cares about the wealthy, the wealhty and the wealthy and survies by pacifiying sex hating, wacko religious fundamentalist bible thumpers by throwing them a bone every now and then (Terry Schiavo).
Both parties cater to the extremes and anyone remotely centrist (McCain in the GOP or Leiberman for the Dems gets excoriated by their own for daring to deviate from party dogma).
We need strict term limits or better yet a third party that cares about common sense, is liberal on some social issues and conservative on others, is TRULY consevrative in terms of conserving the environment and is truly conservative fiscally, meaning CHEAP with other people money and not dying to help the wealthy.
Of course Al Gore thinks he would have been a better President than Bush. With good reason: The bar has been set SO SO SO low by the liars, con artists and snake oil salesman that continually emerge as the leaders of the GOP and the American Socialist Workers Party (Dems) that it would not be difficult for ANYONE with true principles, an egalitarian ethos and genuine preference for American Democracy over unrestrained Capitalism to be a great President. I think any one of my neighbors could be a better Presient than Bush and I KNOW I would be would bet my life on it. Okay, enough ranting.
59 - RogerMDillon
Well isn't that basically what you do Roger? Repeat tired leftists catchphrases over and over?
"Bush lied, soldiers died."
I have never previously used that catchphrase because I don't think he lied. I'm sure the material by those agencies were what they had. The reason they had that information is another story, like Scooter leaking info to Judy Miller and then Chaney claiming what the NY Times reports, while failing to mention that the info originated from his office. There's the fact that there was other information that contradicted Bush's facts, but not mentioning that isn't technically a lie.
I used "Bush Lied' this time as a reflection of your own nonsense. You are so deep in delusion that you didn't realize that I was mocking your lame attempt at discourse.
I love when people try to claim Kelo is leftist. I don't recall the renovations to include abortion clinics and gay youth hostels. They were for new businesses not communist farm collectives, so please try and look at the bigger picture.
The reason you come off looking foolish, Dave, is because your so worried about the rights you think you will lose under the Dems, yet you don't care about the rights you do lose under the Repubs. Either your too dumb to know what is really going on in the world or your integrity is easily bought off with tax cuts.
60 - mschannon
Dave re: comment 34: That is the most egregious case of exaggerated hyperbole I've heard in ages. Do you really believe you can characterize two diverse parties with such obvious over-simplifcations and distortions? Your claims don't even deserve a detailed response because they've got no basis in reality.
This entire thread has degenerated to the point where you've all leapt to the other side of Alice's Looking Glass. I'm unsubscribing. Ain't nothing interesting being said here.
In Decaf Veritas.
61 - Arch Conservative
Two quotes from Roger...........
"I have never previously used that catchphrase because I don't think he lied."
"And Kennedy causing the death of a woman and lying about it is hilarious. Of course, they don't want to deal with the number of deaths Bush's lies have caused."
I'm confused. Do you think Bush lied or not?
62 - Arch Conservative
Kelo was "leftist"
It was the liberal left leaning judges that decided that it would be ok to seize private property in that case while the right leaning conservative justices disagreed and dissented.
Pretty straightforward Roger.
63 - RogerMDillon
"I'm confused."
Of course, you are, but there was no need to state it because your ravings illustrate your mindset. I already stated I was mocking your knee-jerk, emphasis on the latter, commentary.
If you are asking if Bush believed the things he said when he said them, I think he did. Was he telling the American people the entire truth of the matter? Absolutely not. He lied by omission.
He should have been a real leader, present all the available information and then state his reasons to the American people why he is making his decisions. Instead, he took the coward's route rather than standing up for his convictions. He only presented what made his case. Could it be that he knew he wouldn't have the support required if he had presented the entire case?
He forgets that he works for the American people. You, Arch, have obviously never been in management because I want the people working for me telling me the entire story. I'm a grown-up and can make my own decisions. You and your rabble are coddled like children, which is why you have to be scared into listening to someone else who'll take care of you from the President to the preacher.
64 - DazeyMai
Eric #21...I love it when the Repubs bring up the Ted Kennedy incident over and over for it just shows how desperately they are grasping at straws. For God's sake....Repugs...get over it!
Everyone knows it was a terrible tragedy. The Dems don't harp constantly over the Nixon fiasco, and that was a pre-meditated crime. Ted and Clinton just couldn't control their raging hormones...and haven't we all been there????
65 - Jet in Columbus
Dave #56 from where I sit it looks more the the republipriests are trying to take everyone's rights away, especially privacy to mention one.
66 - EGore
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling", Chicken Little AKA Al Gore
67 - Father McMurray
Hey Jet you had better say 10 Hail Marys for that one...
68 - Dave Nalle
Dave #56 from where I sit it looks more the the republipriests are trying to take everyone's rights away, especially privacy to mention one.
I submit that that's because of where you're sitting. The group who the religious right want to screw over isn't the general population, just a small minority who they think they can get away with victimizing. From your perspective that does, indeed, suck, but for most of us it's just something we observe and look on with distaste while not being personally impacted.
Dave
69 - Baronius
There's an old military adage, that the enemy is always either 4 feet tall or 10 feet tall. When Eric says that the Bush administration is "long on politics and short on governing", I think he's misperceiving an opponent.
The current team barely beat the two least charismatic presidential candidates in history. Yes, Bush did beat them, but does that make him "long on politics"? There have been dozens of missteps in politics, such as the Miers nomination, the ports, Rove's scandal, and the endorsement of Specter. Errors in politics, not governance.
They failed to defend Ashcroft during the first term, Cheney during the second. They've been massacred on leaks (sorry, "whistle-blowers"). They've consistently stood by their enemies in Congress, and opposed their friends. Even in international matters, like trusting the French on the Security Council, their mistakes have been in politics rather than policy. The most frequent criticism of the war, that it's made the US hated around the world, is a criticism about perception.
70 - Matthew T. Sussman
I smell a commenter going under multiple names. I'm no comment editor, but I'd knock it off if it t'was me.
71 - Eric Berlin
Baronius -- Bush is a flat-out shrewd politician (under the guidance of Rove). By any measure, the Bush Years of 1999-2004 are remarkable political work. We're only now seeing its unraveling.
But politics and policy and governing are all different things. I think many people are experiencing buyer's remorse these days. It all stems from the war, but the seeds of discontent have been sown for a number of years now.
72 - Eric Berlin
Dave - I haven't checked in on your takes in a while, but you're s bit wacky throughout here. If we believe you, we would therefore agree that we're all still recovering from the fascist dictatorship leftist/communistic Cultural Revolution/Little Red Book era-of-bloodpain known as the Clinton Years.
So: not so much.
73 - Arch Conservative
So what are all you GOP bashing know it alls going to say when you wake up one morning this Nov and find out the Dems still don't have a majority?
74 - Bliffle
"There's nothing more peaceful than a well-managed police state, AC. When we have Pelosi and Reid in charge to tell us what we're aloud to do and think our lives will all be much simpler"
"Aloud"!? Really. Dave is the last person I would have thought of to make this elementary mistake. The hapless victim of lax liberal education standards. Perhaps that victimization explains the constant harping against liberals, to the point of embracing some ideology, any ideology, that is contrary to the liberal precepts of his oppressors in academe. Even to the contrived and spurious variation known as Neocon. How revealing. How sad.
The only thing more amazing is the slavish copying of that linguistic mistake by his auditors.
75 - NR "Read what is on the page, damn it!" Davis
Depends. Is suicide legal?
Seriously, this Independent has no hope under GOPs or DINOs, so, whatever.