Seeking out the real Sarah Palin is a necessary process that should not be derailed because she is a woman.
This piece is aimed at those of you who have placed this pseudo netting of protection around Sarah Palin and her family. Running for political office is nothing more than an invitation to have your past opened, judgments critiqued, words construed and fortitude tested. The Kennedys, Clintons, Bushes and Obamas have all withstood this same scrutiny. No politician has ever been (or ever will be) exempted from, or too sacred for, this public litmus test.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Jordan Richardson
the Obama camp claimed he's a nazi sympathizer and trying to imply that Palin is as well
Source?
I remember it being discussed on MSNBC for one.
They discussed the claim or made the claim? There's a big difference and you know it. FOX discussed "the claim" as well, but they clearly didn't actually make the claim.
27 - Jordan Richardson
Arch, nevermind. I found it:
Democratic Congressman Robert Wexler of Florida lashed out Saturday at McCain's choice of Palin as his running mate due to the latter's support of a "Nazi sympathizer" (Buchanan), and branding the move an "affront to all Jewish Americans."
"John McCain's decision to select a vice presidential running mate that endorsed Pat Buchanan for president in 2000 is a direct affront to all Jewish Americans," said a statement by Wexler.
"Pat Buchanan is a Nazi sympathizer with a uniquely atrocious record on Israel, even going as far as to denounce bringing former Nazi soldiers to justice and praising Adolf Hitler for his 'great courage'".
So let's look at this. Is it entirely baseless? No. Are they implying that Palin is a Nazi sympathizer by association? Well, I guess that's your inference to draw. In my view, this is a case of the Dems using the concept of association that the Republicans love to use so frequently against Obama (Rev. Wright, etc.). It's hardly a baseless accusation, as nobody actually accused Palin of anything other than supporting Buchanan. It is the classic ideology of "guilt by association" and I would hardly imagine that the GOP is unfamiliar with it.
Remember, Arch, I asked you politely for examples of baseless assertions.
28 - Arch Conservative
Will the Huffington Post do?
How about the Boston Globe...
Hey Jordan do you think Michelle is going to be doing lines with Barry on the campagin trail?
I bet a week's pay check that the answer to that question is yes.
29 - Jordan Richardson
Hey jordan do you think Michelle is going to be doing lines with Barry on the campagin trail?
If the visual helps you when you're twangin' the skin bus, I resoundingly answer in the affirmative.
30 - Arch Conservative
"If the visual helps you when you're twangin' the skin bus, I resoundingly answer in the affirmative."
Not really but I bet watching her with a single tear rolling down her cheeck during Barry's concession speech will.
31 - Jordan Richardson
Such an independent spirit you have, Archie. Just don't hurt yourself when you're getting in touch with Mr. President.
32 - Arch Conservative
Well seeing as I won't be voting for McCain or Obama this fall I guess that really does make me an independent as opposed to people like you who will be voting for one of the candidates from one of the major parties that hasn't done fuck all for the American people and calling it change.
33 - Jordan Richardson
Such a short attention span you've got there.
First of all, I'm Canadian. Second of all, I've voiced my support for Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente in a discussion in which you told me, immediately after my revelation, that you planned to vote independent as well. Third, you spend a considerable amount of time launching baseless personality-cult attacks on Obama but don't do the same towards McCain. In fact, you relentlessly defend McCain/Palin. And your above comments speak not to any ideology that you want your indie candidate to win, but rather that you just really want Obama (and Michelle) to lose.
If you believe in fair politics and you want to elevate the process, you won't play in the mud with the other kids. But the way I see it, you're right in it with your face dirtier than most people around here.
34 - Silas Kain
...do you think Michelle is going to be doing lines with Barry on the campagin trail? ...
Sorry, Arch, but I just want to know if W. will leave an 8 ball with the note he leaves behind on the desk for the next President. Somehow I don't think W. will want to share his stash.
35 - Arch Conservative
How do I pit it in presepective for you Jordan.........
I dislike McCain....I despise Obama with the passion of 1,000 burning suns.
Obama is at heart a scoiliast who would like nothing better than to use his power if elected president to take us as close to a european style socilaist state as possible. That is not even the worst thing about Obama. Teh absolute worst thing about him is that he tries to hide who he really is as if Americans are stupid enough to bleieve his campaign rhetoric over their own lying eyes.
I enjoy making fun of, belittling and demeaning Obama because he deserves it. The same goes for his Ru paul looking wife.
Even though I disagree with Palin on issues such as creationism and her abstinence only approach to our young people I absolutely love her because she flies in the face of the bullshit rhetoric that the left wing feminazis in this nation try to shove down our throat when they say that they are for strong, capable woman and then savage any women that does not adhere to their sociopolitical philosophy 100%. Say what you want about Palin politics but she got where she is today on her own merit. Contrast that with Hillary who has only gotten so far in life by riding the coattails of her cheating lecherous husband....yet Hilary is a strong capabale woman and Palin is someone to be ridiculed? give me an f-ing break.
Make no mistake about it Jordan. Palin is not some lightwieght who poses no threat Barry and Joe. She is very capable and extremely appealing. The Obama folks know as much and that's why they've been having their surrogates spread all the lies and propaganda about her for the past week. They made a major mistake which may very well prove to be a fatal mistake when they decided to go after her daughter and bring up her down's syndrome son though.
36 - Jordan Richardson
Basically, Arch, your beliefs about the election are comprised of a slew of conjecture, some paranoia, a misunderstanding of socialism, and a lot of fear meshed with a sense of self-importance and self-loathing.
Sounds like you're an average American voter to me.
37 - Arch Conservative
Silas........how does bringing up Bush illustrate why Obama is the best man for the job this time around? I fail to follow your logic.
As for Bush.....He's the biggest reason I'm not voting GOP this eyar and I will be happy to see him go so you're wasting your breath if you tink I'm going to get in a back and forth with you defending him. He's yesterdays news.
Today's news is Barry and what a complete media created fraud he is.
38 - Silas Kain
Hold on, Arch. I do NOT, I repeat, I do NOT support Barack Obama. I'm not going to do the politically correct thing and roll over for him just so I won't come across as racist. Under the surface that's what Obama supporters whisper. "Oh, so-and-so don't like Obama. They're racist." No, I'm an American. I'll question a politician based on issues NOT skin color, genitalia or religious affiliation. I don't like the campaign that's being waged by Obama supporters behind the scenes. Nor do I like the campaign that's being waged by McCain supporters behind the scenes against Obama. But, we're a superficial society, aren't we? So I guess that means McCain wins because out of the two tickets the only good looking candidate is Sarah Palin and in this culture, appearance matters most.
39 - Arch Conservative
What can I say Silas. I agree with everything you just said.
40 - Jordan Richardson
Under the surface that's what Obama supporters whisper.
Oh? You've been "under the surface," have you?
No, I'm an American.
Thanks for clearing that up.
There seems to be a whole lot of muttering going on about what Obama's supporters are doing under the radar, behind the scenes, and under the table. Yet once again, this is all accompanied by very little proof and a whole lot of simple, healthy distrust.
You are right to be sceptical. But don't invent or concoct reasons for it. Follow through on facts, don't just play the scatterbrained tactic of throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks. It seems to me that there are those in such a hurry to damage any individual involved in this election that anything will do. And that's what makes American politics so fucking disgusting to me.
Smoke crack in grade 12? You're fucked and will never be president. Have sex before marriage? You're fucked. Happen to know a criminal? You're fucked. Live in Alaska? You're fucked. Own a lot of homes? You're fucked. Have an opinion about abortion? You're fucked.
It's like an obsession and you're all part of it unless you break the damn cycle. People like Silas claim to question Obama on the "issues," but where is the discussion? The discussion remains in the squalor of the behind the scenes, the possibilities, and the assumptions. It's all such garbage.
So you reap what you sow, don't you? If you decide to play dirty politics along with the rest of 'em, you better not complain about the stupidity of America or claim that a Mike Judge movie sums it all up because guess what? The stupidity of America all comes back to you.
41 - Silas Kain
Under the surface, on the bed, under a bridge, over the top. That's me, Jordan.
There seems to be a whole lot of muttering going on about what Obama's supporters are doing under the radar, behind the scenes, and under the table. Yet once again, this is all accompanied by very little proof and a whole lot of simple, healthy distrust.
You are absolutely right! But that doesn't negate the fact that it's being done. There's a time honored tradition in this part of the country when it comes to smear politics. This is an old union machine trick which is used by all sides and it IS effective. You send a handful of guys into a crowded bar or lounge. Have a couple of drinks and then start talking loudly about a candidate. Drop a few negative, sensational lines against the candidate and within three days - BAM! The candidate has been blind sided.
I bear a huge amount of healthy distrust, Jordan. Unlike other free societies, Americans have made a cottage industry out of politics. Our campaign seasons are far too long. Our candidates are far too corrupt. And our voters are far too stupid.
42 - Jordan Richardson
Yep, and? What's the solution, Silas? Take the higher path.
43 - Arch Conservative
"People like Silas claim to question Obama on the "issues," but where is the discussion?"
Maybe he believes that people like McCain and Obama are not even worth the discussion let alone the vote.
I've been ripping on Obama for quite some time now but if McCain gets elected and does some of the boneheaded things that I expect him to do then I will be ripping on him at that point in time. You should have been around when McCain was trying to force his amnesty bill on this nation along with Senator swimmer from Massachusetts Jordan. I had more than few choice words for Mccain.
With Obaam I have social and political differences that are obvious but it goes beyond that. granted I've never met him in person but everything about him annoys me. The things he says, his attitude, his mannerisms, the looks kn his face...EVERYTHING. It's a personal thing. I just can't stand him as a human being.
In my more lucid moments of objectivity and reason I can see that neither party really gives a damn when push comes to shove and the best course of action for any American citizen is to take stock of one's own life, assess what is desired out of life, determine the sacrifices
and effort that must be made to gain that and proceed accordingly. Of course helping those along the way who've had legitimate obstacles thrown in their path through no fault of their own is a pretty decent thing to do along the way. But waiting for either party to come along and hand it to you is foolish.
44 - DFB
First off, like all the true politicians I feel a overwhelming debt of gratitude to America. In addition to that as a single father who feels like I must absolutely work feverishly to improve our country for the sake of my children. My analysis of the current options of leadership is done with that ultimate objective.
In a successful democracy it is the civic minded,enlightened, and vigorous actions of the everyday citizens that bring about permanent change. The historic examples are plentiful.
With that in mind I would like to commend Jamminsue and Dalihah for thier thoughtful and insightful offerings to this important discussion.
This is not the proper forum to discuss the myriad elements of hardship that the largest portion of the country is suffering, but we all are aware of the economic woes that persist.
I think the only reason we should be looking into Mrs. Palin is to satisfy our concerns resoundingly, if she were to be called to assume the presidency in Mr.Mccain's absence or untimely death. We all have the potential moment to moment to manifest wise or ignorant behavior.
Based on what I have learned from credible sources, in addition to the questions raised and case made by both Jamminsue and Dalilah, I would say Mrs.Palin would fall short in being able to govern in a way that would serve to greatly improve the quality of life for the largest number of citizens.
45 - Cannonshop
UMMM.. DaLila, What has Obama DONE?
What bills did he sponsor as Senator, how many of them are the Law of the land now?
What Legislation did he get through the Illinois Legislature before he ran for the Senate? What bills did he vote on, and what was his vote?
What did his involvement with the Annenberg project in Chicago do to improve the education of Chicago's Kids? (for Archie- This is an example of Obama as executive, just in case you're wondering- sixty million dollar budget that one had.)
How did his Community Organizing help the South Ward's people? How much in terms of infrastructure was improved, how many peoples' physical lives were improved?
any mirror or mirage can offer "hope" of a sort, but if you want your man to be debated on the issues, then he's got to have a record on...
The ISSUES. When a candidate says "I will change the way Washington Works", then there's got to be some change he's worked before, or it's just an empty cheque. Democrats usually do a creditable job of nailing Republicans on words-vs.-actions, as they truly OUGHT to.
The Presidency is an executive position, that means if you're going to run for it, you're promising that you can get results.
The reason lots of republicans will overlook Palin's bad-points, is that in two years, she's gotten more tangible results than many Governors get in ten or twelve. Presidents are supposed to Accomplish things, often this makes some folks unhappy. What has Obama accomplished?
What's he Done? See, a vice president is like a spare tyre-the VP doesn't do a lot and has no constitutional role beyond breaking ties in the Senate (unlikely with a Democratic senate, btw) and waiting for the President to suffer a mishap, injury, or death that makes them unable to execute the office. (Unlikely with McCain-unlike Bush Sr. McCain doesn't sky-dive for relaxation, or go haring off into crowded woods during hunting season with the rest of the drunks like LBJ.)
in practical terms, the Vice President generally serves to float ideas that may be unpopular, cut the ribbon at base openings, and waste time waiting for something to happen-of course, this can be translated into spending time learning the ins-and-outs of D.C., or schmoozing lobbyists, or studying hobbies. Al Gore, for instance, remade himself into an environmentalist during his eight years at Bill Clinton's elbow, and Dick Cheney served Bush Jr. as a magnet to draw some criticism, or a nice distraction (Replaced by Karl Rove after his heart-attack).
I think this is the first election I've seen where the Democratic Presidential candidate is relying on his Vice President as a Mentor to show him the ropes, which is disappointing in and of itself, since it proves that the Scoop Jackson democratic party, the Democrats of Harry Truman, are truly extinct. What we're left with is Abby Hoffmann lite.
46 - Arch Conservative
"What we're left with is Abby Hoffmann lite."
Damn. I wish I came up with that one.
47 - Clavos
I would agree Mrs. Palin is incapable of governing the country in a manner that best serves and improves the quality of life for the majority of Americans.
Fine. Don't vote for her.
Is it OK with you if I do?
48 - Roschelle
Little known facts about Ms. Palin: 1) pushed for censorship in Alaskan libraries. 2)Sarah Palin refused the building of the bridge only after she saw it was advantageous to her politically but she kept the MONEY! all $223 mil...[talk about more of the same...uuuggghhh!]
49 - Cannonshop
She kept the allocated highway funds in Alaska, you mean? Or are you saying she kept it for herself?
The first is part of the job, the second is corruption and can be grounds for a long stay in a nasty place.
(did I say that? yup. I Did.) the money was already there, Roschelle, she simply chose to put it where it might do some good, rather than on a bridge project that would have enriched a couple of influential construction firms that were probably paying Sen. Stevens off for the Earmark.
$200m in highway funds allocated to the state is $200m in highway funds. Alaska has a freeze/cool cycle with the permafrost layer that means it needs a LOT of highway maintenance. considering that the "earmark" was a significant portion of the State's transportation budget, she did her job as governor by redirecting it where it actually needed to go, instead of dropping that much on a bridge to an island with a total population of...how many? (checks the link in Rochelle's post) oh, a few dozen people.
50 - John
Energy is the future of this country...the folks in Wash have ignored the problem...bring her on, she can't do any worse than the clowns we have in there now, give her a chance. She's busy building pipelines, while the rest fo these bozos are sipping their Starbucks on M street.
51 - Arch Conservative
That's right John and Palin, unlike those liberals clutching their starbucks while ranting and raving about the caribou and all of the environemental damage that drilling will bring about, has actually seen first hand what the enivronmental effects of drilling are.
She knows that it's all a bunch of lies propegated by the eco-terrorists.
52 - bliffle
IIRC, that alaska pipeline includes a directed expenditure of $500million to XXX, where XXX is some private outfit whose name I can't recall.
53 - jamminsue
I think the main owner/builder/operator of the Alaska Pipeline is Aleyska, whose main shareholder (46%) is.....BP
54 - jamminsue
Ruvy #5 - too bad you think I'm boring,guess all us accountants are boring to some...I find the idea you think all Americans are focused on sex a sad commentary on this country. Nice metaphor.
Consistencey is important.
55 - Ruvy
Jordan -
A bigger fool than you does not write on this comment thread. More malicious fools, maybe, but a bigger one - well, not since "just one braincell" got kicked off.
But when there is a benefit for your people, you beg the Sarah Palins of the world for help and claim that we're all in danger if she doesn't help. And this is because you believe that your people are God's Chosen People, correct?
What if you're wrong?
What if the OT was a collection of pagan mythology and cultural scraps, as many leading scholars are starting to believe, written by multiple authors? What if Moses didn't pen the words from Sinai at all? As scholars continue to sift through documents and the documentary hypothesis looks more and more likely, how would that, if at all, challenge your point of view? Or is this an issue purely of faith?
The United States of America is in danger of being destroyed - Sarah Palin does understand this. I didn't mention Canada. Jewish prophecy does not deal with winners of Lord Stanley's cup or its land of residence. I'm not absolutely sure, though. I'll have to thumb through my copy of the Tana"kh to see if nine beavers and a frog are mentioned anywhere. The Book of Proverbs mentions rock badgers and ants, but I didn't see nine beavers and a frog.
Further, I don't beg anything from anybody. I didn't do it living on the street 25 years ago and I'm not going to start here. A severe Divine decree can be averted by proper action. And Sarah Palin has the unique opportunity, because unlike a whole bunch of writers here, she sees G-d as real, to encourage proper action to save her country and maybe usher in what she would view as the Second Coming earlier than it might be.
On the other hand, she doesn't have to do that. A price - a high one - will be paid by Americans. Like I said earlier, there doesn't appear to be scripture on you Canucks.... On the other hand, maybe you guys didn't rate any. I don't know.
As for your comments referring to Higher Criticism, (I had to learn that shit in college forty years ago - there's nothing new to "progressive" Christian scholars tearing apart a Jewish text) that is what the Torah Code is all about disproving. When there are messages that stretch through several books of the Torah at equal letter skips, what your are seeing is the Watermark of a single Author.
To dispel some of that bullshit a bit more, go to this site on how a Torah is written. There were no Kinko's or Sir Speedy's 3,300 years ago when the Torah was given to us at Horev. So there was no place to make a photocopy of the text. The shapes of the Hebrew letters changed over the millennia, but the letters in the Torah themselves did not. The alef is still an alef, the beth is still a beth, and the Torah still begins with the words b'reshíth bará elohí-m et hashamáyim v'ét ha'áretz "With Wisdom G-d created the heavens and the earth." [b'reshith/Genesis 1:1]. And no self-important
Biblical "scholar"baboon spoutingHigher Criticismbullshit is going to change that.56 - Don Jarrett
“The last thing you want to do is give a distressed borrower more time, because when people are in distress they tend to take a lot of risks,. You don’t want zombie institutions floating around with time on their hands.”
-- Charles Calomiris -Professor of Economics at Columbia Business School
The same applies to John McCain, a distressed presidential candidate, because when politicians are in distress they tend to take a lot of risks -- such as Sarah Palin.
57 - Silas Kain
Ruvy, the lessons of history prove repeatedly that war in the name of religion gets us nowhere. Frankly, I'm tired of the United States spending billions in the Middle East trying to maintain a fragile peace that will never occur unless Jews, Muslims and Christians share responsibility equally in an atmosphere of mutual respect and dialog. Traditions are a wonderful thing but when they threaten the very existence of mankind, we must think twice. The God of Abraham is the God of Christians AND Muslims. Give Him any name you want, the Deity is the same. Each individual arrives in the world in the same manner. We are given a gift to take on the Earth and its abundance and strive to make it a better place for the next generation. The three major religions have failed miserably but as long as they keep subscribing to the "God's will" concept, they'll never learn personal responsibility. What a gross waste of parchment.
58 - Ruvy
Silas,
I've never asked your country to spend money. Keep your money. But keep out of our affairs and let us get rid of the traitors who ruin our land and spread defeatism and discouragement among our people - assholes and thieves like Olmert, Barak, Peres, Livni and even the prick who runs SHAS and sells us out. Get your soldiers out of our land. We do not need you and we do not want you.
The best help you can give us is to arrest and expel the heads of all the shitty Arab and Moslem groups that follow the Wahhabi drumbeat, and sell us - NOTICE I SAID SELL - us planes that can allow our warplanes to refuel in the air, so that we can launch a series of successful military attacks (one won't do the job) to defang the damned "Islamic Republic". They are our problem not yours. Since you Americans haven't got the balls to attack your real enemy in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, get the fuck out out. You do more harm than good.
Also, your government can block Ford Foundation funds from going to fund organizations that work to weaken and destroy my country.
That, Silas, would be more help than all the "foreign aid" in the world.
59 - Silas Kain
I totally agree, Ruvy. America has no business being entrenched in the political, religious divides over there. Unfortunately we're petroleum junkies and we'll prostitute ourselves for anyone who will give us our daily gasoline fix just so we can go buy substandard merchandise at WalMart.
60 - Jordan Richardson
Ruvy, nothing I said even entered the realm of higher criticism.
I asked you basic questions and you obviously felt insulted and lashed out. You spout off, incessantly, and provide no basis or evidence for your claims other than some conspiratorial nonsense and a whole lot of vitriol. And the idea that you apparently can't entertain dissenting thought or the possibility of inaccuracy in your "claims" ought to be embarassing. But you're so arrogant in what you think you know that shame is hardly something you're acquainted with.
If I'm the biggest fool posting in the comments section, you're certainly the biggest nut.
And trust me, that's no small feat.
61 - Ruvy
Jordan,
You should learn a little more before you spout off.
I just wanted to make sure that you understood that i don't mistake you for an American, for all of your comments about American politics.
As for Higher Criticism, what you described about the Tana"kh is Higher Criticism. And it's bullshit.
As for the Bible Code, the authoritative work on it is "The Truth of the Bible Code", by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover. A dose of what you can read there is provided here at what is apparently a Christian web-site.
If you want to call that conspiratorial nonsense, you are indeed the fool I pegged you to be.
62 - Jordan Richardson
You should learn a little more before you spout off.
Ruvy, I learn as I go. That tends to be how life works for me. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, either. But I also know a lot more than you think. And vice versa, I'm sure.
As for Higher Criticism, what you described about the Tana"kh is Higher Criticism. And it's bullshit.
No, it's the widely understood opinion of many historical scholars. It isn't "bullshit" just because you say so. I prefer evidence, whereas you seemingly prefer to ignore it.
As for the Bible Code, the authoritative work on it is "The Truth of the Bible Code", by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover. A dose of what you can read there is provided here at what is apparently a Christian web-site.
The Bible Code? Dude, what?
As to your previous post, I'm well aware as to how scriptures were transcribed. My critique had nothing to do with something being lost in translation or in the validity of the text. I'm more concerned with its origin, initially. Source criticism is important and it has nothing to do with whether or not I'm a progressive Christian or a fanatical Muslim.
If you want to call that conspiratorial nonsense, you are indeed the fool I pegged you to be.
"That" being what? The Bible Code? The Bible Code is a massive load of horseshit. I don't know any scholar worth his or her salt that gives it the time of day.
Again I ask you: what if you're wrong?
63 - Ruvy
Evidently, Jordan, you do NOT learn as you go along, you dismiss as you go along. That's your problem, not mine.
Again I ask you: what if you're wrong?
For years and years I assumed the Bible was little more than moral tales and historical exaggerations of a tiny tribe in the Middle East. I didn't ask source questions because I was an agnostic, though I had been born a Jew, and I was proud of my people. I regarded the Bible much as one might regard the Kaalevala (sp?), the saga of the Finns.
When I took a good look at the what is called parshát ha'azínu (I'm not wasting my time on links for you anymore; you can look this up yourself), I realized that I was staring at the history of my people - revealed 3,300 years before it had occurred!
That is when I started to learn. Arrogant and conceited SOB that I am, I realized that I had been looking at all this the wrong way, and them folks who believed in G-d believed in something real. I was the one being the fool.
SO, I AM NOT WRONG. I AM THROUGH ASKING "WHAT IF?" G-D'S TRUTH WAS REVEALED EVEN TO THIS ARROGANT AND CONCEITED SOB. AND I HAVE BEEN GUIDED BY THAT FOR THE LAST DECADE OR SO. THAT IS WHY I LIVE HERE AND NOT IN ST. PAUL. THAT IS PROBABLY WHY I'M STILL ALIVE.
64 - Jordan Richardson
That's a lovely personal story, Ruvy, and I have no interest in discrediting your journey or your spiritual reality. But we do not share spiritual realities and your spiritual reality becomes my business (and the world's business) when it extends to prophecies that involve other countries (prophecies of which there are a complex variety of interpretations for) and world situations.
John Hagee and other people might hold Zionism of the highest esteem, but I don't subscribe to the idea of a particular, specific Chosen People nor do I believe in any holy land. Also, the Bible is just another book for me. It might as well be Chicken Soup for the Soul. It may sound odd and foolish for a someone associated with Christianity to say this, but I don't believe in the holiness or divine quality of the book. It was written by a large group of men over a long period of time with a variety of biases and interpretations and opinions.
You accept your vision of the Bible and the Scriptures by faith; I try to accept mine through evidence. You don't entertain the idea that your sinful, human nature may have you misinterpreting God's will and plans, whereas I entertain that idea every day of my life.
I refuse to speak for God. I only know manmade instructions and interpretations. It is probably true that I am an agnostic clinging to a Christian title, in point of fact, but for the moment it's where I sit.
So basically, the long and short of it is that you answer the question of possibility with an inherent and arrogant "no." You're not wrong. You can't be.
And you tell me that I dismiss as I go along...
I'm open to the possibilities of God, his/her/its will, and everything in between. It's you who is bound and jailed by certainty.
65 - Ruvy
Jordan,
What you describe in the comment above is agnosticism dressed up in a fancy suit. It's not a whole lot different from "reform" Judaism - water with a tincture of wine coloring.
It is the final result of a religion that has done its damnedest to cut itself off from its Hebrew roots and which embraces instead the pagan thinking of the Greeks. The only thing you are missing are idols to Jupiter, Mars and Venus. But I do not wish to discredit your journey or your spiritual reality. However, we do not share spiritual realities.
I'll leave it at that. Further discussion is a waste of time and effort.
66 - Jordan Richardson
As I said, Ruvy:
It is probably true that I am an agnostic clinging to a Christian title
With my family history and a strong emotional attachment to the faith of my upbringing, I am fully aware of what I am and what I'm not.
It is the final result of a religion that has done its damnedest to cut itself off from its Hebrew roots and which embraces instead the pagan thinking of the Greeks.
No, it's the final result of all religions. Even yours.
67 - CallmeMaddy
How about instead of attacking Palin, we just attack no one? That seems like the simple thing to do. Stick to the issues, not whether or not her kid is pregnant or whatever. Who cares?
68 - Christopher Rose
The real truth about the authors of the Torah is that thousands of years ago they were doing their best to try and explain the world around them.
Unfortunately for them - and others who repeat this dated and in many ways superficial text - our understanding of the world has become a lot more informed since then. Just one example of many is the "advice" against eating pork or prawns. Well intentioned at the time I guess but nowadays just laughable.
69 - Here
How about instead of attacking Palin, we just attack no one? That seems like the simple thing to do. Stick to the issues, not whether or not her kid is pregnant or whatever. Who cares?
Yes!
John McCain is changing too quickly to back Obama-CHANGE in every aspect.
I need time to figure out the difference in between, and I just have no time to worry about any other's kids.
70 - Cannonshop
Ever heard of Trichinosis, Chris? It's one of those fun things you get from eating undercooked pork. You can also get it from handling food after you've handled pig blood, if you don't wash thoroughly. Pigs have other critters that live in 'em that can make your life painful and short if you don't handle 'em just right. It's easy to do that now, in the era of antibacterial soaps, but when that book was written, it was written for a people with scarce water supplies that didn't necessarily have the ABILITY to wash their hands before eating, nor the ABILITY to cook their food thoroughly, through-and-through before eating it.
And shellfish spoil VERY quickly in warm climates. even cooked shellfish.
Eating "Kosher" or "Halal" (The Arab version) is far more likely to keep you from getting something that will kill you in your food, than eating like a northern barbarian...in the climate of the Middle East and the conditions where the early Israelites lived (particularly during days of the Exodus).
Laugh all you want about how it doesn't apply in the modern world, but guess what? the Modern world applies to a ridiculously small patch of the earth, and is very, very fragile.
71 - Ruvy
Laugh all you want about how it doesn't apply in the modern world, but guess what? the Modern world applies to a ridiculously small patch of the earth, and is very, very fragile.
Thanks, Cannonshop, The point about the fragility of the "modern world" is one I never would have thought to make. One good EMP and the whole planet is knocked back about 60 or 70 years minimum in terms of its technology.... You're absolutely right on the money.
72 - Christopher Rose
Cannonshop - so, as I said, the information about pork and prawns was relevant back then but not now, just like most of the rest of the human written book. Thanks for agreeing with me on that.
I'm well aware the modern world is fragile, that's why we can do without all this superstitious nonsense put about by supporters of this outdated creed.
73 - troll
Chris - do you have a rational program in mind for reducing superstitious behavior beyond telling believers that their ideas are nonsense - ?
74 - Clavos
Since refrigeration is still absent in much of the world, including most of Sub-Saharan Africa and Latin American slums (most of which lack electricity) and rural areas, cautions against such foods as pork are still very relevant.
75 - troll
(Clavos - what do you make of the recent power failures and brown outs in Venezuela - ?)