I'm travelling with my family in New York City this week, and had quite a bit of fun in Times Square. It really does have a carnival atmosphere. There's a giant Jack in the Beanstalk, a Ferris Wheel in Toys R Us, Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum, and they even have a new House of Horrors called the DEA Museum.
Yes, apparently the DEA has done such great things for the country that their efforts need to be memorialized with exhibits and displays of their good works. I haven't had a chance to stop in yet, but I'm lookiing forward to checking out the video of them breaking into invalid-care hospices in riot gear and dragging away recovering cancer and polio patients in handcuffs. I expect to really be wowed by the life-size dioramas of death squads funded by DEA money killing farmers and peasants in villages in Central America. I know my kids can hardly wait to see the gallery of houses, cars and other property seized by the DEA without due process because marijuana was found on the premises even if it was just dropped over a fence by a fleeing suspect. I assume admission is free, paid for by money seized from people who were violating the law and automatically subject to forfeit of all their cash because they were carrying more than $10,000 and therefore assumed to be carrying drug money. I even hear they have a dramatic Constitution shredding staged every half hour.
It ought to be the highlight of our trip to the Big Apple. I know nothing lifts my spirits more than pictures of handcuffed invalids and AIDS victims being shoved in the back of paddy wagons at gunpoint. It makes me so glad we have the DEA to protect us from ourselves, but I wonder when deeds which should be done and stay in darkness became something deserving of recognition in a museum.
Dave
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - HW Saxton
How can anyone say "War On Drugs" and
keep a straight face. When I hear that
f***ing Walthers talk about all the Weed
related deaths in the US and then go and
equate it with Heroin,Cocaine & Crystal
Meth it's all that I can do not to smash
& destroy the TV.If he in and of himself
isn't scary enough there are people out
there who believe that you can actually
OD on herb like you can on Junk thanks
to his mis-information. Unbelieveable.
The DEA and the fact they actually have
a museum that is.I had honestly thought
this was a joke post at first. Scary.
2 - Dave Nalle
The post isn't the joke, the DEA and the hubris they show by having a museum is the joke. The catch is that it's not funny at all.
Dave
3 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Didn't you know that John P. Walters is the reincarnation of Harry J. Anslinger -- Reefer Madness and everything?
4 - gonzo marx
someone should bring one of the original copies of the Constitution and Declaration over for the museum
just to watch the miserable pigfuckers burn them
they were written on hemp paper after all
all i can say is that Prohibition is stupid, you would have thought we had learned...
obviously not
Excelsior!
5 - RJ
I never knew this museum even existed...
6 - Dave Nalle
And aren't you glad that it does now, RJ?
Perhaps the BATF has one too - maybe it's in Waco. I hear there's some vacant property there.
Dave
7 - KC
Great Post!
One thing thru: "because they were carrying more than $10,000 and therefore assumed to be carrying drug money."
I thought (and I could be wrong) that they could take ANY amount thought to be suspicion. I got that from reading USA Today since they sometimes list seizures. I had thought (and again I could be wrong) that if you're stopped for any reason, and even if you're not found to be doing anything illegal a large amount of cash is deemed "suspicious behavior".
If it has be over 10K this is information I hadn't heard before.
8 - HW Saxton
A lot of people(esp. foreigners)like to
carry large amounts of cash on their
person because of mistrust of the USA's
banking systems.That this $$$ could be
confiscated under "suspicion" is really
F'ed up! Welcome To Amerikkka!
9 - Dave Nalle
I believe it has to be ofer $10K for them to just seize it with the amount being considered suspicious. If it's associated with an actual drug transaction they can seize any amount.
Of course recent laws may have changed all this and made it even more outrageous.
Dave
10 - Steve S
Did you go in the museum yet? I'm sure it's not pictures of invalids in handcuffs, although I know they would have the necessary 'clip art' for that, but what was it really like inside?
11 - KC
There was a case in Tenn. around 1993 of Willie Jones a landscaper who had $9,000 taken by DEA agents. That's why I thought it was any amount. He got the money back after going to court, but since you can't sue for legal fees and can get only the original amount returned I'm guessing that was out of principle on his part, and not the money.
12 - sammy
How naive are you people? Why would someone carry around more than $10,000 hard cash? Legitimate business people utilize banks. Mistrust of US banks?!?! HA. Its obvious by the string of posts here that all of you are a bunch of ingrates. Lets get rid of the DEA and let all the lowlife drug pushers and big time traffickers run amok. Great world for our kids you morons. God forbid they have a museum to educate people...
13 - Moe
I know a few facks on this subject, so allow me a few lines. If any funds are seized they must first be proven via probable cause that the money is dirty money, i.e. drug proceeds. And then the case still must be proven to the court. How is this proven? When the owners are questioned, they give statements that cause the inspectors/agents to question whats real and what is a lie. Normal people do not carry large amounts of cash when they travel, but on occasion a few people have reason to carry these types of funds. In many cases (those you do not hear about) people are questioned and the money is returned. Only the drug dealers and other low lifes have a problem explaining why they have such a large amount of cash on them. As for the DEA museum, I have been there, it was great. It told the story of the drug problem not only in the U.S. but how those countries who supply the drugs got started. I think all kids and (pot heads) should stop by and take a look. Maybe then you will understand why the DEA is such a vital agency in the USA. I know a few DEA Agents, they are one of the last federal agencies who really think they are performing a service to the country. No Bull. And as for the dragging out sick people who use weed as a pain killer, thats not happening. They have alot of other more important things to do than that. Don't believe the hype.
14 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Maybe some people can defend the existence of a DEA museum, but no one can defend prohibition because it is indefensible.
Our so-called "drug problem" is prohibition (a.k.a. the war on certain drugs) masquerading as a solution to itself by fueling and supporting a worldwide underground economy (the black market) worth over $500 billion dollars annually.
15 - Dave Nalle
>>How naive are you people? Why would someone carry around more than $10,000 hard cash? <<
Well, in the cases I know about here in Texas the most common is to buy cattle or horses or impounded vehicles at auctions which only take cash. Also popular is carrying enough to pay all the illegal aliens on your construction site, but that's a bit of a gray area.
>>nd as for the dragging out sick people who use weed as a pain killer, thats not happening. <<
Um, what fantasyland are you living in, Moe?
Dave
16 - Dave Nalle
>>Did you go in the museum yet? I'm sure it's not pictures of invalids in handcuffs, although I know they would have the necessary 'clip art' for that, but what was it really like inside?<<
Steve, if you were in NYC for 5 days with your daughter would you take her to the DEA museum?
Dave
17 - KC
I can't blame anyone for not see a problem with 10K being the amount you must be carrying to be seen as "suspect". HOWEVER 10K IS NOT THE AMOUNT you must have on you to have it seized.
Doing some research thru I think I understand the reasons for the confusion. (Sorry Dave that's what I should have done before mentioning it)
As part of the law passed in 1984 agencies public and private are required to REPORT cash transactions of over 10K.
HOWEVER---under the same law local law enforcement can immediately confiscate any amount deemed by them to be suspious. Dave's examples are good reasons people might carry cash, but also there are legal citizen of the U.S. who refuse to use banks and fear ATMs especially those who don't make much money. They may have $600 in their pocket because it's a l l they have to their name.
Local Law enforcement then splits this "suspected" money with the DEA. This gives both agencies a darn good reason to develope a suspious nature.
Example: 1993 Pittsburg Press reported that a grocery store in Detroit was raided by local drug enforcement. They found no drugs on the property, but still confiscated $4,384 from the cash register. Their reason was that the drug dogs had expressed "an interest" in that area of the store.
In the cases of these smaller confiscations the mark, excuse me, I mean the person holding the cash will probably not go to court to get it back.
It doesn't result in a record of conviction for them, and by the time court fees are added they may owe more than they'd get back.
Another possible point of confusion is the law itself which states:
"Whoever, in any of the circumstances set forth in subsection (d), knowingly engages or attempts to engage in a monetary transaction in criminally derived property of a value greater than $10,000 and is derived from specified unlawful activity, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b)"
http://www4.law.cornell.edu article:/usc_sec_18_00001957-
The way to get around that is also in the same code:
f,2: "the term criminally derived property means any property constituting, or derived from, proceeds obtained from a criminal offense" same link & article.
IOW the "any" means---You're innocent until proven guilty, but your money (any amount of money or property) is guilty until you prove (thru a costly process) you got it honestly.
I doubt that info. is at the museum so, again confusion is understandable.
sorry this long, but that one point is sort of important.
18 - Steve S
Steve, if you were in NYC for 5 days with your daughter would you take her to the DEA museum?
maybe for the salt and pepper shakers in the gift shop.
19 - Dave Nalle
Great stuff, KC. Sort of kicks my original comments up a notch.
>>As part of the law passed in 1984 agencies public and private are required to REPORT cash transactions of over 10K. <<
According to my bank the cutoff for reporting has been lowered to $5K. Not sure when.
Dave
20 - HW Saxton
I think that $10,000 is also the amount
of money you can win gambling before you
have to declare it and pay taxes on it.
You can win $9,999 and you're clean (and
also lucky)but,if it's $10,000 then you
have to claim it.
21 - Dave Nalle
Dunno about that, HW. I think any amount of gambling winnings has to be declared. There's even a place for it on one of the forms as I recall.
Dave
22 - paedwin
Dave,
This is only part of the DEA thuggery story at taxpayers' expense. Most DEA agents are dishonest, fabricate evidence against their victims, and lie under oath in court.
I have sent a link to your blog to our list/serv of pain patients and doctors:
Pain_Soc_Pol-PrnList.org mailing list
Pain_Soc_Pol-PrnList.org@prnlist.org
http://lists.prnlist.org/listinfo.cgi/pain_soc_pol-prnlist.org
Homepage of PRN is a non-profit seeking to end law enforcement regulation of medical practice.
www.painreliefnetwork.org/default.asp?id=50&mnu=50 - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
23 - RJ
I thought it was 599 dollars was okay to win in a lottery or while gambling, but 600 dollars required filling out tax forms...
24 - sammy
This is all so classic. Both Moe and Nalle touch upon the basics very well. Pursuant to a drug arrest, the feds can seize up to $1,000 cash. Houses, cars, jewelry, etc can and should also be seized if the arrestee admits to purchasing those items with drug proceeds. Suspicious looking people at airports and train stations are often approached by law enforcement and agree to searches of their person and baggage. When money is found, many times people deny actually owning the money on their person (they are scared and know they won't go to jail if they just say the money isn't theirs). "If it ain't yours then its mine," money seized. Other times, they cannot account for it and most of the time we're not talking about a measly $10K. Many times, drug dogs are brought on to sniff the currency and will usually positively alert for the presence of narcotics (probably residual). Probable cause enhanced, good luck trying to say you were going to buy cattle with that. More often than not, its DEA seizing money and sharing it with local law enforcement agencies.
Now regarding paedwin's comments...I take it you speak from experience or personal knowledge about the approximately 4,000 DEA Agents of which "most" are dishonest, fabricate evidence against their victims, and lie under oath? You obviously watch too many movies and have no idea about the judicial process or a court proceeding. Lets also get it straight that defendants are not victims you idiot. Society, the populace, and children to name a few, are the victims to drug trafficking and violence brought on by drugs.
Next time I'm in NYC, I'll be sure to check out the DEA Museum...should be one in every major city.
25 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Society, the populace and children (to name just a few) are the victims of prohibition and the violence brought on by the black market it created and continues to support.
And with all of that free money floating around out there, corruption comes as no surprise.
Some law enforcement officers who have experienced the injustices and futility of our so-called "drug war" firsthand share their stories over at LEAP, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.
There was nothing noble about the "Noble Experiment" when it was conducted between 1919 and 1933 and there is even less nobility in its modern incarnation.
Sure, the sets, props, costumes and background score have all been updated, but that characters and plot are exactly the same.