Rep. Anthony Weiner's distribution of lewd photos of himself via cyberspace destroys his credibility as a leader.
To say the least, Rep. Anthony Weiner has angered me. I have been extremely impressed with him over the past couple of years since I first became aware of him. He is intelligent, dynamic and articulate. He has proven to be a firebrand in the House, and I felt that he had great potential. I honestly didn't think he would ever be president I joked before that the U.S. is not quite ready for President Weiner. But, I did believe that he could rise (no pun intended, but what the hell, go with it) to be a strong force in Democratic politics, ultimately becoming a strong party leader and more importantly, a truly involved and sincere representative of the American people, at least as much as any politician is capable of sincerity.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - STM
Weiner just comes across as a knob.
27 - Baritone
I see that cannon buys into the myth that only Reps have any moral standards - that Weiner's actions shouldn't bother the amoral, godless Dems.
Yet, in shear numbers, Republicans out-distance Dems in sexual deviance. And the god-fearing, virtuous Reps repeatedly have come to the defense of their fallen wang-waggling compatriots while they now self-righteously demand that Weiner resign.
While I still believe Weiner should resign, the Republican response makes me waffle a bit. In some ways, it would do my heart good to see him stay on and thumb his massive nose at the hypocrites on the other side of the aisle.
28 - Baritone
I find it interesting that no one has thus far found the last paragraph of my article worthy of comment. Either you guys think I'm totally out in left field on that one, or perhaps, you're just afraid to touch it.
One day, women will rule the world and men will be little more than sperm donors and hod carriers.
29 - Irene Athena
Cindy (hi!), I don't know if this is a condition that has wormed its way into the X and Y chromosomes, or if is a condition that is a cultural overlay. It seems to be so often the case, that, regardless of race, creed, or ideological persuasion, a woman's reasoning powers are influenced by her emotions--this may not be a defect--and a man's reasoning powers are influenced by...yeah.
(I don't want to over-generalize, because there are some Heartless she-devils out there, and Princes who treat everyone, including women, with respect and compassion.)
30 - Irene Athena
(That was to Baritone, too.)
31 - Baritone
Irene - I agree with you. And I too, don't want my comments to be taken as a blanket statement. Some men contend that all women are bitches and some women claim that all men are pigs. I don't believe either statement is close to being true.
Yet, there is something about men and power. Women don't seem to get caught up in it in the same way as men do. For men, power is almost always somehow related to their, uh, equipment. And it's amazing how utterly juvenile men can be about it. It's often like they failed to mature emotionally beyond jr high.
32 - Glenn Contrarian
Baritone -
Yes, I agree - Wiener can still get beyond this. It will take some time in political exile, but he can still make it happen.
But I wouldn't want to be him right now...especially since he's Jewish, his wife's Muslim and by no means a wilting flower, and a close associate of Hillary. I have a feeling that if we could harness the current chill in their household, we might be able to solve global warming....
33 - Glenn Contrarian
Baritone (and Irene)
And it's amazing how utterly juvenile men can be about it. It's often like they failed to mature emotionally beyond jr high.
Truer words are rarely said...but maybe Hemingway said it best: "That is the great fallacy: the wisdom of old men. They do not grow wise, they grow careful."
Maybe that's why I've never really felt older than seventeen. My body says otherwise, but in my mind I still feel like a teenager...and my girlfriend is coming home next week - yay! I'll be her boyfriend until she gets mad at me - because when she's mad at me, then I'm her husband. As long as I keep her happy, I'm her boyfriend. First rule for a happy marriage: Never stop courting her!
Yeah, women generally are more emotionally mature than men - but not nearly enough men realize it. All too often we're still stuck playing "king of the hill" while they're trying to keep the household and the family on an even keel. We men are really very, very lucky that women still think they need us...because if women ever figure out that they don't need us anymore, the nights are going to get a whole lot colder....
34 - Baronius
Salon has an article about Weiner's first run for office, in which he exploited anti-black bigotry following the Crown Heights riot. His campaign anonymously sent out leaflets linking one of his City Council opponents to David Dinkins and Jesse Jackson. This guy is bad news. He's the worst sort of political bully, and you should be glad that he won't be moving up in the Democratic Party.
35 - Irene Athena
Salon.com You've shared an important angle to this story, Baronius. Hell hath no fury like a liberal woman scorned.
Unless it's Hillary Clinton who was dancing, as Senator turned Secretary of State, with Bill at their daughter's wedding years after his indiscretions. There are alternatives to fury that are a more politically expedient response to scorn. I would suspect the Clintons and Weiners may be going out on double-dates soon.
36 - Dr Dreadful
It is, as Dan (Miller) noted, the problem of his lies.
I guarantee, B-tone, that as a public figure he has lied about things other than where on the web he waved his willy.
The fact that he would feel the need to lie about it in public is just another symptom of the strange modern mores I was talking about.
37 - Baronius
Dread - Way back on comment #1 you said that this kind of behavior didn't used to be frowned upon. That doesn't seem accurate to me. First of all, there's a difference between royalty (or even nobility) and the everyday man, in terms of expectations. One didn't expect a king to be a good person. His job was to rule and have sons. And it was hard to vote him out of office. America has a much stronger tradition of growing our own "nobles", and permitting them to stay in power only as long as they meet our standards.
Secondly, I suspect that people look randier in the history books because all the rumors and concealed facts are printed there. A future American will read about Roosevelt, Kennedy, and Clinton and think how society's become more puritanical in his day.
Lastly, I think that people have always been more tolerant of discreet affairs. It's easier to pretend they don't exist. It demonstrated a sense of propriety. (Remember that hypocrisy has come to be viewed as the gravest sin only in recent times.) If Jefferson accidentally sent a lithograph of his penis to half of Virginia, his political life would have been over. Sobel's right that the modern era has accelerated the means by which a misdeed can be made public.
38 - Baronius
How 'bout that, Dread - you just revived the issue while I was posting.
39 - Baritone
Well Doc, when we are talking politics and morality, we are getting into really murky water. While we want to believe our pols are being truthful, anyone with a brain knows that at some level we are being lied to. The "lies" are usually half truths, lies by omission, lies by demigogery, and so on.
The problem in Weiner's case is that he stood before the nation on program after program for over a week and denied his guilt. As I noted, and I'm sure we all remember, he did stop short of claiming that the original photo was not his schlamonger. But he purposely lied directly in claiming his Twitter acount had been hacked and on and on.
Interestingly, a poll just released earlier today indicates that his constituents favor his staying the course. Fifty-one percent of those polled do not want him to resign. Only about 35% say he should. I guess if his people want him to stay in office, perhaps that's what he should do.
As to Baronius' claims of Weiner's earlier misdeeds, I don't think that's a Pandora's box we should be opening. True or not, it's likely that a large % of pols have any number of skeletons in their respective closets. Bar loves to dig the dirt and shovel it out here for all of us to ponder. My wife heard it said that Weiner is a bully to his own staff. Could be.
Dirty tricks abound in politics. Just look at how the Koch Brothers are currently waging a campaign to blame Obama for higher gas prices when they make most of their money from oil. Talk about low life pieces of doo doo... Of course, I suppose that's all right because they're righteous conservatives and god is on their side. So anything goes.
40 - zingzing
that salon article doesn't sound like the weiner i've come... that name! you can do anything with it... anyway, it sounds like a dirty campaigning trick that a hungry young politician might employ without thinking too much about it. it just doesn't seem to fit with weiner's way of thinking. of course, he's a politician, so i'm sure a lot of his thinking would surprise me mightly in its machiavellian depths. but it sounds more like the work of a campaign manager and a naive politician. he had to be in his mid-20s at that point. not sure what business he had running in an election in the first place.
41 - Irene Athena
GLENN (B4 the thread gets all partisan again) your wife has wisely gone on a trip WITHOUT leaving you a big honey-do list, apparently ;)Tip: She'll be coming home with a boat-load of dirty laundry. Make sure she can't find a dirty sock or towel of YOURS anywhere. A pristine laundry room graced with flowers--and perhaps a small box of chocolates concealed between the soap and the fabric softener--would be a novel and welcome surprise.
42 - Glenn Contrarian
Irene -
What I got left with was taking care of our medically-fragile Foster kids. I can assure you it's no fun because every second day they need suppositories in order to have bowel movements...and while a nurse is usually (but not always) here to give the suppository to one kid, the other kid gets no nursing hours at all. All the care of the other medically-fragile kid is on me.
But I really like your tip on the laundry - I'll take that to heart, and I'll let you know how it turns out. Ironically, her name's Irene...but I haven't called her that in many years - we always call each other 'Darling' (unless she's mad at me, of course).
Another tip for the husbands out there - grow flowers in the yard - lots of flowers (esp. roses)! That way you can bring her flowers whenever you want to ("just because" is always the best reason)...and they're free and make HER house - remember, it IS her house - look much more presentable.
For those who wonder why it's always HER house...remember - guys usually don't care much about dollhouses. A girl loves a dollhouse - and that's how she practices for when she's got her own house. Not your house - HER house. Unless it's a house that she doesn't like, of course, in which case you need to find a good Realtor.
43 - Cannonshop
#27 um...no. If you didn't smell mockery of the GOP in my last post, Baritone, you're not as subtle as I thought you were.
The reason the god-botherers get hammered in these scandals, is the sheer hypocrisy of their behaviour. The only reason the Weiner's Weiner story still has any traction, is that his name, a name that can be read straight across as a synonym for...well...his junk.
But after the 1990's, the Democratic Party should be pretty much immune to sex-scandal-stupidity. I mean, did you NOT learn anything from Bill Clinton?
Weiner should NOT resign, but he maybe ought to disarm the critics and stop trying to be defensive-unless...y'know, he can turn it into a sympathy play.
44 - Irene Athena
Its not Weiner's Weiner, story, Cannonshop.
It's Weiner's Wiener story.
E after I,
like
Wieners and pieces of pie, on the fourth of July
EXCEPT after c
AND EXCEPT when sounding like "A" as in neigbor and weigh
AND EXCEPT when sounding like Rhine
as in Weiner and schwein.
(Dedicated to Handyguy.)
45 - Dr Dreadful
Baronius: I think that people have always been more tolerant of discreet affairs. It's easier to pretend they don't exist. It demonstrated a sense of propriety.
Quite true. For an example of how this works in a modern society, look at France. After his death, it came out that the late President Mitterrand had had numerous extramarital affairs while he was in office, including a long-time mistress with whom he had an adult daughter. The French press had known about it for years but hadn't publicized it - partly because Mitterrand threatened them with consequences if they did but mainly because they didn't think it was all that newsworthy.
The reaction of the French public to the news? They shrugged and got on with doing, presumably, much the same sort of thing themselves.
Just imagine the furore here if it came out that Dubya or Bill had that sort of secret. Oh, wait...
46 - Baronius
Dread, the two examples I always hear are Mitterand and Berlusconi. But since they're both recent, don't they argue *against* a neo-puritanism? Or is this just a comparison between Europe and the US?
47 - Dr Dreadful
Baronius, I think neo-puritanism is mainly an Anglosphere phenomenon, and even then it's just the two largest centres of that sphere. The Aussies don't seem all that bothered: former Labor PM Bob Hawke, for one, was a bit notorious, and once, the story goes, even made a pass at Germaine Greer. Brave man.
48 - Arch Conservative
"Yes, I agree - Wiener can still get beyond this. It will take some time in political exile, but he can still make it happen."
BZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!!!
It's all over for Weiner. It's just a matter of time before he resigns. He has absolutely zero political allies left. He's done.
It's not the fact that Weiner snapped some risque pics or had cyber/phone sex with these woman that's so eggerious, it's the fact that he thought he was smarted than everyone else, that he thought he could get away with lying to the citizenry about it. That's where the animosity from the people comes from. The politician who thinks he's better and smarter than we peons. I know that gets my spite up like nothing else. Being that I can't literally push Weiner down a flight of stairs I guess the next best thing to appease that spite would be to see him publicly suffer. To see his resignation offered up and his life unravel before my eyes.
Oh I know what's coming. He's a fellow human being...how can I be so callous. Well fuck him and every other politician. Both parties are robbing us blind and ruining this country so that they can live the good life themselves. I have no more regard for the life of any politician or wall street bankster than I do the turd I left in the bowl this morning before leaving home.
In fact if I was walking down the street and I saw some scumbag politician or banker on the other side and he was on fire I wouldn't even take the time to walk across the street to piss on him to put the fire out.
They should and I hope do all burn in hell for eternity.
49 - Baritone
There goes Arch equivocating again. Say what you think, man!
50 - zingzing
it must be burdensome carrying around so much anger.
51 - Irene Athena
...Singin' polly-wolly doodle all the day...
What in the ?
52 - Irene Athena
Arch, you have expressed my sentiments exactly (except for maybe the very last line about burning in hell.) That's the sort of sentiment we should all be BANDING TOGETHER to express to politicians on both sides of the aisle who have been---forget about the sexual dalliances--lying to us about why we're raining down predator missiles on countries for humanitarian purposes and why big corporations got huge chunks of OUR money to bail them out while the money frugal families had saved up over the years evaporated.
53 - Glenn Contrarian
Arch -
Riiiight. Just like it was over for David Vitter after he was caught with a prostitute...and he was wearing diapers IIRC.
John Ensign's just quit...but how long did it take, and how long have we all known what he did? Is Weiner's indiscretion somehow the equal of John Ensign's?
And then there's Newt Gingrich who's running for president again. He doesn't have as much support as he once did...but the lack of support from the Republican side apparently has nothing to do with the fact that he cheated on his dying wife, and that he divorced a woman because she wasn't 'pretty enough' to be a politician's wife.
You know the difference when it comes to Republicans and Democrats and their sexual dalliances? (1) Republicans stand on their soapbox saying how 'morally superior' they are, and (2) are usually backed up by their fellow Republicans who - instead of tossing them under the bus - tend to circle the wagons in a show of intraparty loyalty. The Dems, OTOH, tend to drop the offender like a hot rock. Again, not always, but usually.
54 - El Bicho
"it's the fact that he thought he was smarted(sic) than everyone else"
wonder where he got that idea?
55 - Irene Athena
But Glenn, Arch is no longer about the Republicans vs. the Democrats:
Both parties are robbing us blind and ruining this country so that they can live the good life themselves. I have no more regard for the life of any politician or wall street bankster than I do the...
&etc.
Your observation in paragraph 4 was astute, but it contradicts the "Riiiight" in paragraph 1.
56 - Irene Athena
The comment was a bit WHOLESALE but I found myself getting caught up in the spirit of the thing.
57 - Glenn Contrarian
Irene -
I don't think they contradict. I really don't think we should worry about the dalliances of politicians in their private lives as long as it's nothing illegal...but I think it should also be pointed out that among those who are worrying about it, one side tends to be a lot more hypocritical about it than the other side. Just sayin'....
58 - Cannonshop
#48 but Arch, that's what Politicians DO-they Lie, it's part of the pre-requisites for the job, just as assuming (and they're more right more often than wrong) that the people who elected them aren't as smart as they are.
The real story might actually be why he bothered to lie about THIS indiscretion-sex scandals are a great example of Carnymancy-the generation of a carnival of noxious noise to cover something else going on that people maybe might need ought to be paying attention to.
And it IS noxious noise. Public funds were not involved, nor official secrets, nor classified information nor critical economic data. The guy tweeted a shot of his wedding-tackle to a chick he was flirting on-line with. Big Frikking Deal.
No laws were broken, so what is the REAL reason this is even worthy of public attention?
59 - Cindy
Irene (hiya :-),B, and Glenn,
Here is what I make of it.
Girls are culturally indoctrinated to treat all people all the time like human beings. (General statement, meaning it is generally true, yet not absolutely.) When we are young, we often get those teen magazines which have pictures of boys and we adore them, wonder what they eat for breakfast, walk outside under the stars hoping they are doing the same, etc.
Meantime, in the next bedroom, brother Billy is hanging up a picture of large breasts and some female's butt revealed through skimpy shorts (at the mildest level of objectification). Males are being indoctrinated to see body parts they want to use for their own sexual conquest and satisfaction. (Another general statement. Not always true. But true mostly and true enough.)
This theme is typical and considered so natural that it is played out in numerous media, TV, books, etc.
I do think there is something wrong with masculine indoctrination, Irene, B, Glenn. It is what is ultimately responsible for most of the destruction in the world and toward people.
Can women be indoctrinated the same way? Sure they can. But they haven't generally been, so these are the exceptions. Men, have basically held the power role in determining what is permitted in the social reality, they have developed conquest and domination and power as themes of masculinity and as events which play out in the social reality.
In my reading, cultures associated with matriarchal values are not dominated by women, as B would imagine. That is a masculinized portrait, it seems to me. Matriarchies are associated with egalitarian decision-making,and nurturing relationships (rather than competitive or destructive relationships--conquest, war, which is what masculine societies have been built on).
I believe anyone can change and it doesn't matter what sex they are. If I raised female infants in an Amazon Army Unit, I could produce murderous, dominating women. If I raised males in a cooperative community where relationships and non-violence was prized, I could raise some really great guys.
People realize that if you put an infant in a tribal community s/he would not likely act like an American and vice versa--yet, they continue to replicate this culture with every destructive flaw as if they have nothing to say about it and as if it is a part of their genetic destiny.
Every child born is an opportunity to change the world. So, the question is, why do they grow up into adults who follow the same rules, do the same things, and look at the world the same way as the people around them?
60 - Baritone
Cindy - I don't disagree with you. Your comment is well considered.
I would say, though, that there are damn few matriarchal societies on this planet. None come to mind among any countries I can conjure up. I think some primarily western European countries are trending in that direction - part of what seems to disgust most red blooded American men. (Those relics I spoke of.) The only matriarchal societies that come to mind have been small tribal units found around the world over the past couple of centuries.
Actually, what I see happening in this country is the "masculinization" of women. So many programs on the tube, in films and even in many popular books the measure of most heroines is how much ass they can kick. It raises the notion that for women to be considered equal to men, they must emulate them. This is part of a male fantasy, and a lot of women are buying into it. There is, IMO, a beauty and symmetry to the divergent nature of the sexes. That divergence is in some ways disappearing. Is that good or bad? Don't know.
61 - Glenn Contrarian
Cindy -
Girls are culturally indoctrinated to treat all people all the time like human beings. (General statement, meaning it is generally true, yet not absolutely.)
I agree wholeheartedly! And I think that's why women generally tend to be more liberal, and men generally tend to be more conservative.
62 - Baritone
Glenn - And why a lot of men tend to be assholes. Just as they think it's their mandate to determine what a woman should or should not do with her body. Male dominance is often plagued with tunnel vision, pomposity and stupidity.
63 - Glenn Contrarian
Baritone -
Actually, what I see happening in this country is the "masculinization" of women. So many programs on the tube, in films and even in many popular books the measure of most heroines is how much ass they can kick. It raises the notion that for women to be considered equal to men, they must emulate them. This is part of a male fantasy, and a lot of women are buying into it.
I've thought the same thing for some time - witness the 'girl-fights' that high-school kids record on their cell phones and put on Youtube. And it's sad.
What I think this stems from is a growing perception among women that they have to compete for the men. They always have, of course...but not like this. Maybe I'm just being naive, but women shouldn't have to publicly fight over men...which is why I'm so disgusted at the very premise of shows like The Bachelor. I refuse to watch it for that reason.
64 - Glenn Contrarian
Baritone!
Male dominance is often plagued with tunnel vision, pomposity and stupidity.
You saw my picture in the dictionary again, didn't you?
65 - Baritone
Glenn - Hey now!
It's not just competing "for" men, but competing "with" men - physically. While it's great that both men and women are hitting the gym, the notion that women should be able to compete toe to toe with men physically is a step backward. Is it a desirable goal for women to become men?
The superiority of women, IMO, comes with their generally inherent ability to think with their minds AND their hearts and far less so with their genetalia.
As with both Irene and Cindy, I don't make this a blanket statement. There are probably as many dumb, insensitive women as there are dumb insensitive men. There are women who use their sexual prowess to intimidate for personal gain. There are men who don't lead with their schwanstuckers. But stereotypes emerge and grow through repetetive reinforcement.
66 - Dr Dreadful
Cindy: This theme is typical and considered so natural that it is played out in numerous media, TV, books, etc.
Well, in a sense it is natural. Male humans are pre-programmed to seek out a mate who can provide them with healthy offspring: large breasts and prominent buttocks are markers for that.
Females are looking for the same thing, but they also need a mate who can provide for and protect those offspring - which, in our primeval home with lots of hungry lions and leopards wandering around, meant someone attentive and resourceful and who could think on his feet.
Like you, I'm generalizing, but it does make biological sense for this to be broadly true.
That said, I guarantee you that in 9 out of 10 cases in which a woman is asked for her preference between an average-looking, weedy guy with a doctorate and a handsome, muscular one with a B.A., she'll go for the latter.
How much of that is nature and how much nurture, I'm not sure.
67 - Dr Dreadful
the notion that women should be able to compete toe to toe with men physically is a step backward. Is it a desirable goal for women to become men?
Most "Western" cultures are still strongly patriarchal, so emulating men is the only way women can hope for equal treatment. Our society is set up in such a way that many of its privileges traditionally hinge on the beneficiary's being in possession of a twig and berries - or failing that, acting as if they are.
68 - Jeannie
We should all be screaming for Vitter's blood...
he broke a law
69 - Jeannie
Good to see Doc, Glenn, B & Cindy.
:)
70 - Dan
Although pressure is building on Weiner to withdrawl, I hope he stands tall and surges ahead with renewed vigor to retain his orifice. He's a certain archetype of pure progressive creepiness that fits the grimacing face of the Democrat party.
Breitbarts off the street commandeering of the weiner platform just before weiner confessed was magnificent. Better than a hollywood script.
71 - Baritone
Dan sure got it right. All of us lefties are grimacing creeps, and we're goddamn proud of it! So hurrah for all you smiling, hypocritical wingnuts. Let's hear it for David Vitter! Huzzah!
Ya know, what Weiner did is creepy, but what Vitter did is illegal. So the "law and order" party decides to give Vitter a pass. Just another load of Republican crap.
72 - Dan
Hurrah for Breitbart for exposing Democrat creeps!
Speaking of Democrat creeps, What about Billy Clinton? Perjury, obstruction of justice? Isn't that stuff illegal? Surely he resigned right?
73 - Cindy
there are damn few matriarchal societies on this planet
Unfortunately, anything of interest resembling weakness has been dominated...no one much cares about a few Eskimos, Inuit, Bushpeople, Kung.
Actually, what I see happening in this country is the "masculinization" of women.
That is what I see too, B. I probably have reiterated this too many times in discussions but here goes again: I am not interested in succeeding as a top guard in a prison built by someone else. That is, I would rather change the warp and the weft rather than become the favorite golden thread. Where women succeed in the current social structure, they are not, imo, successful at becoming equal. Success for me is to change the structure and its boundaries, not be elevated within its boundaries.
What kind of freedom or equality are women settling for? It's like women are becoming "house negroes" (Malcolm X) and thinking that it's liberation.
I would like to say that my position seems to give women a free pass. I don't actually do that, in the full scope of my thinking. Because of the historical lack of power and therefore lack of equality, women have often been trained to seek out men who can support them. That is also an objectification. Now they can become 'masculinized' and be taken seriously in the workplace (by men), I guess.
74 - Cindy
Hiya Jeannie. Just was thinking about you two days ago. :-)
75 - Glenn Contrarian
Baritone -
What is a word called that, when you hear it, even if it's a made-up word, the sound of it is so...definitive that you automatically know what it means?
"schwanstuckers"
I'm still chuckling....