U.S. official confirms that the Bush administration endorses waterboarding enemy detainees, but also as a training method for U.S. soldiers.
While covering CIA Director Michael V. Hayden’s testimony on CIA interrogation methods, Greg Miller, a Los Angeles Times reporter, revealed that a senior U.S. Intelligence official stated that, “Tens of thousands of American Air Force and naval airmen were waterboarded as part of their survival training.”…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Jet in Columbus
Rush Limbaugh hasn't made up his mind who to back yet, so he's justifiably confused.
27 - Jet in Columbus
Also Pat Buchanon seems strangely quiet.
28 - bliffle
Boys, boys, boys. No need to quarrel over whether waterboarding is torture or not.
We just ask Bush, Cheney and JOM for their opinions!
While Jet is waterboarding them, of course.
29 - Shovelhead
It doesn't matter if waterboarding is torture or not. Against the kind of enemy we face it's justified by their actions.
30 - bliffle
If they're as bad as THAT, then it does no good to waterboard them anyway.
31 - Jet in Columbus
"While Jet is waterboarding them, of course.
"...
Damn and I forgot to get that waterproof set of leathers...
darn
32 - Jet in Columbus
You know guys, I still have that product review waiting in the sidelines about my new desk if you're that bored!
33 - Jet in Columbus
Bill Maher covered waterboarding on his show tonight, I guess it's not as "old" a subject as some seem to think...
34 - Dr Dreadful
(JOM:
I realize it is possible that you were not attacking Jet personally. However, based on your track record, you do NOT get the benefit of the doubt.
Therefore, your comments on this thread, and those in response to them, have been deleted.
Please re-read the comments policy to remind yourself about the rules of discourse here.
Assistant Comments Editor)
35 - Jet in Columbus
...this has been a recorded announcement...
36 - Pablo
Clavos said in post 9
"International opinion is against our waterboarding our own soldiers in training?
It's none of their effing business."
This is so typical of this kind of hypocritical, arrogance of people of your ilk Clavos.
You would be the first to assert that it is ok for the USA to condemn and criticize and impose sanctions on other nations that do not conform to the dictates of the White House, yet if some other nation makes a criticism of us, its none of their effing business.
I doubt seriously that you can even see your hubris and self-righteous arrogance Clavos, but it certainly does not escape me. The Ugly American comes to mind, and it is people such as yourself that make me ashamed to be an American.
I also assume that you probably have no problem with other HUMAN BEINGS being tortured when it comes to defending the "land of the free" and home of the brave. Big Smirk.
I would point out to you, though I know it will go over your head, that when you treat other human beings in such a degrading and inhuman fashion, for whatever the reason, you become that which you supposedly despise. Like I said I am sure this goes way over your head.
Torture is torture...period. As far as I am concerned if you approve of torture you are guilty of aiding and abetting such behavior.
I dont really know your opinion of water-boarding Clavos, but the thrust of my opinion has to do with your supreme arrogance in the statement above.
37 - Jet in Columbus
Sort of do-as-I-say not as I do?
38 - Clavos
In keeping with my storied arrogance, Pablo, I don't really care what you (particularly you) think.
It (and you) after all, are only pixels on a screen...
39 - Matthew T. Sussman
When did the conversation change from "waterboarding our own soldiers during training" to "waterboarding our enemies?"
40 - Jet in Columbus
2nd sentence of the 2nd paragraph Matt, had you bothered to read it before pronouncing it old news.
41 - Jet in Columbus
and...
Despite criticism from many quarters, President Bush’s White House has asserted that he still has the power to authorize the CIA to resume waterboarding captured individuals who he considers enemy personnel
42 - Jet in Columbus
Good save Clavos
43 - Jet in Columbus
It's all there Matt, it's not THAt long of an article... An official determines that waterboarding is needed during an interrogation. The CIA director confirms the need and submits a “plan” to the Attorney General, who then declares it legal and submits it to the president, who of course endorses it.
44 - Matthew T. Sussman
I did read that part, Jet! Now did you read my comment?
That fact was first reported months ago in many outlets. Just because someone drops in a quote printed in 2008 about something doesn't mean it's a revelation.
45 - Jet in Columbus
I was answering your rather terse question: When did the conversation change from "waterboarding our own soldiers during training" to "waterboarding our enemies?"
(groan)
46 - Jet in Columbus
In the last few days this subject has been brought up in all three evening news broadcasts, CNN and Bill Maher's live show just hours ago. IT may be as you say old news, but for some reason everyone in the news industry seems to think it's news since it was finally officially disclosed in Congressional Hearings.
It's so nice to have you and JOM as my steadfast fans that you'd take time off of your busy schedule to follow me and my articles.
Makes me feel all warm inside... maybe it's your new beard
47 - Matthew T. Sussman
"IT may be as you say old news,"
Try to understand what's being said. People in the comments assert that waterboarding our soldiers during training is old news. You counter with "waterboarding is not old news, it was on TV tonight." You are bringing up a different topic than what is being commented on. You do not seem to understand this. I do not know why.
I am not saying waterboarding is old news. I am saying waterboarding our soldiers during training is old news.
48 - Jet in Columbus
Matt do you bitch out writers for writing articles about athletes on steriods, even though it was FIRST reported years ago? I think not. [Personal attack deleted] Everything you've ever written on the website is only 10 minutes old? I doubt it.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
49 - Jet in Columbus
Waterboarding our soldiers is only the first part of the article, the rest is that Bush-despite Congress and the Supreme court telling him he can't has announced he was doing it anyway, thumbing his nose at the people and his own party while he was at it.
Since everyone else is writing about it, I decided to go at a slightly if not decrepid angle hoping to separate mine from the rest of the pack.
However I should've counted on you only reading the first few paragraphs before gleefully getting your licks in.
50 - Matthew T. Sussman
Jet, I wasn't talking about your article. I'm talking about the comments.
In the comments, some people said "I don't have a problem with waterboarding soldiers during training" and "this isn't a revelation." That's what was said.
After Dave was talking about training, you countered with a completely different topic -- Bush signing laws protecting himself, which was completely tangential. I was curious why that happened.
Pablo criticized Clavos for saying he was fine with this training procedure, without really refuting it and instead talking about a different topic -- torture as a war tactic.
Two more things: if waterboarding soldiers during training wasn't the focus of your article, maybe you shouldn't have talked about it for the first three paragraphs.
[Edited]
51 - Jet in Columbus
Matt, Bush signing laws protecting himself IS PART OF THE ARTICLE-Since the GOP led congress in 2006 covertly passed legislation (H.R. 6054) giving President Bush immunity from being prosecuted for war crimes, he apparently feels safe using a free hand in such matters.
[Personal attack deleted]
52 - Matthew T. Sussman
"Bush signing laws protecting himself IS PART OF THE ARTICLE-"
Right, but why say it in that response? Why respond to a comment that says "soldiers are waterboarded during training, and I'm fine with it" with "Bush signed laws protecting himself?"
53 - Jet in Columbus
Bush approval of waterboarding our own troops is part of the article and just a hook to get people interested in it rathing than reading the same old news and DIFFERENCIATES IT from other articles on the same subject.
Bush informing congress through his aids that he legally can waterboard captive enemies is part of the article
Bush having immunity for war crimes prosecution is part of the article...
I didn't know that parts of an article are not aloowed to be discussed in the comments section. I've read many articles and then commented on THE ARTICLE before even reading the comments. I thought others did too.
Read the damned thing
54 - Matthew T. Sussman
"I didn't know that parts of an article are not aloowed to be discussed in the comments section."
You know darn well I didn't say anything resembling the above statement. I was asking why you followed up Dave's comment with your comment. So are you saying you weren't responding to Dave's comment, but merely changing the subject altogether?
55 - Jet in Columbus
Surely you have better things to do while sitting naked in fron of your computer at 4:30 in the morning?
56 - Matthew T. Sussman
I've got a perfectly fine reason for being up at this hour, which is basically none of your business. In the meantime, I've been trying to figure out why you respond to comments the way you do, because bringing up unrelated information to the conversation is a good way to fracture the debate. The way you responded to my questions with unrelated facts and baseless assumptions tells me it's probably a good idea to improve your internet discourse on this website.
57 - Jet in Columbus
You're right Matt, How anyone as ignorant as me is allowed to write articles for this website is beyond me. I can't write coherent sentences, I become too emotional, I have nearly no knowledge of what I write about in order to make intelligent comments about it.
I should be banned from this site and all my 80-85 articles should be deleted because it'd cost too much to hire a ghost writer to make them into something any way near intelligent.
I don't meet any of the high standards of this forum and should be ashamed of myself for thinking that I could stand next to the other people who at least know how to phrase a sentence, paragraph or whole story together into something that makes sense.
I whine and feel sorry for myself way too much and should be ashamed of that too.
I'd post a "greatest hits" of all the shallow and egotistically negative comments you've posted on my assorted works over the years under the guise of "Constructive critisizm" but it'd be useless and only prove your point that I'm not worthy of your attention and should unplug my computer permanately.
forgive me for annoying you
58 - bliffle
If we waterboard our soldiers, maybe we should waterboard our politicians, too. I wonder if we could find any volunteers around here to administer the interrogations?
59 - Clavos
On waterboarding the politicians, Bliff?
Me! Me! I volunteer! Hell I'll pay for the privilege!
Please? PLease?
60 - Dr Dreadful
Why waterboard politicians when you can simply imagine them taking a dump?
Cheaper, less time-consuming, ethical and just as effective.
61 - Jet in Columbus
Maybe we could just take their "Freedom Fries" away?
62 - Les Slater
“Me! Me! I volunteer! Hell I'll pay for the privilege!”
I know that this statement was not to be taken literally, or even seriously, but I suspect many harbor similar feelings more seriously.
It reminds me of just how DEEP in U.S. culture, is the advocacy of homosexual rape, as a proper, and fitting punishment for some criminals.
63 - Dr Dreadful
You raise a good point, Les. (Whoops - here we go off-topic again - sorry, Jet.) It's the 'they deserve all they get' attitude.
In fact, the humane treatment of prisoners in general seems to be a difficult concept for a lot of people - and I'm not just thinking of Americans here.
64 - Jet in Columbus
That's okay Doc, the fasten your seatbelt sign is off, feel free to wander the cabin all you like...
65 - Clavos
A good point, perhaps, Doc and Les, but where's the connection between waterboarding pols and sodomizing imprisoned criminals?
Am I missing something here?
66 - Jet in Columbus
Believe it or not someone is clairvoyant(sic) as I'd included homosexual sodomy in the original article, but it was toned down to simply "sodomy"
Maybe they could be subjected to being tied to a chair and forced to listen to an hour-long serman from the Phelps hate group regarding "fags" instead as an opposite end of the torture spectrum?
67 - Jet in Columbus
To make a point-for perhaps a future article-it seems to me that the more "humane" the punishment, the less effective it becomes as a deterrment to future offenders of the same crime.
68 - Clavos
I agree, Jet.
My philosophy regarding the treatment of criminals is that they should be treated in accordance with the constitutional safeguards against cruel and unusual punishment, but anything up to that point is acceptable, consistent with the seriousness of their particular crime(s).
They are, after all, criminals, and the worst of them are often little better than animals.
69 - Dr Dreadful
where's the connection between waterboarding pols and sodomizing imprisoned criminals?
There isn't one, Clav. We've just wandered off on a tangent again.
Bring a compass...
70 - Dr Dreadful
it seems to me that the more "humane" the punishment, the less effective it becomes as a deterrment to future offenders of the same crime.
Jet - as Obnox is fond of saying: you got any stats to back that up?
71 - Jet in Columbus
My compass reads 1:17PM, I can't remember is that "standard" direction or not-I can never keep those things straight... small wonder
72 - Pablo
Clavos re post 38
Just the sort of response I expected from you. Thank you for re-affirming my opinion of you. You talk with a good vocabulary, nice sentence structure, and even occasional dry humor, however underneath the suave writing style lurks ignorance of great breadth .
Aside from your regular caustic remarks generated in my directions, I have yet to see you actually debate ANYONE on the issues with any success whatsoever.
That being said, lately for the most part I like staying in the background, occasionally reading mostly for my entertainment, the herd.
I was hoping at least you would discuss, (certainly not for my benefit) your views on torture, mostly just to once again re-affirm what I suspect is your stance on the issue. And if you are for torturing human beings, I would also like to ask you if you would actually do it yourself if asked by your Fuhrer. I suspect that you would.
Have a nice tidy all American life Clavos.
73 - Jet in Columbus
I wasn't aware that a casual conversation regarding an opinion required stats... unless of course the conversation involved a Sussquatch
74 - Jet in Columbus
28th day Pablo? I've had those...
75 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Well, kids, guess you really want to discuss waterboarding and other related forms of torture.
As for prisoners raping other prisoners, there is a pecking order in prisons and certain kinds of prisoners appear to get a pass from the homosexual rape problem.... Pervs, especially the ones who prey on kids, really get it in the butt, though. There are lots of daddies in jail.