Hare is running in the heavily gerrymandered 17th district in Illinois, a district basically designed to keep any Democrat in office, yet despite that he has become so unpopular that recent polling shows him losing ground to Republican Bobby Schilling who only trails by 7 points. No polls have been taken since his appalling comments on the Constitution became widely distributed on the internet, so if voters are paying attention Hare may be in trouble. Whether Hare gets elected may be a real test of how awakened the American people are. Even Democrats ought to be turning against such an obvious fool. There have to be some limits to partisan loyalty.
They say that most Democrats will vote for a yellow dog or an old rag if it has the Democrat label attached to it, but there are some signs that Democrats are beginning to realize how they have been betrayed by their party of choice. Contrary to the frequent claim the tea parties are a right-wing phenomenon, a recent poll shows that 13% of the tea party membership is made up of Democrats and those numbers may be growing.
That's a sign of hope, and if we can manage to get Grayson and Hare out of Congress the quality of the membership would increase immeasurably. And while you're thinking about it, why have no Democrats come forward to condemn these representatives' behavior? Are they utterly without shame? Democrat leaders actually praise Grayson periodically and secretly laugh at his bigotry, while Hare has thus far been given a free pass by his party. Does this mean that the whole party is as hate-filled as Grayson and holds the same antipathy towards the Constitution as Hare? If so, maybe they all need to be voted out of office.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Jon Sobel
Grayson's comments are just plain idiotic. And this guy Hare seems to be something of a dope, but his talk about the Constitution was clearly rhetorical. What bothers me a lot more than a couple of dunderheaded Democrats is the vitriolic tone in the voices of Hare's interlocutors. I don't even want to live in the same country with such hatefulness. Hearing people like that makes my blood run cold.
2 - Glenn Contrarian
Dave -
It's all a matter of degree...and whenever the Republicans are OBJECTIVELY compared alongside the Democrats, the Republicans are found wanting.
For every Democratic politician you show me who's used insults and fire-breathing, I'll show you FIVE Republican politicians who've used worse.
For every Democratic district that you claim is a result of gerrymandering, I'll show you TWO Republican districts that are every bit as bad...and I'll start in Texas!
For every Democratic politician who's been indicted or convicted in the past four decades, I'll show you TWO Republican politicians who've been indicted or convicted.
For every fraudulent vote for a Democrat that's been proven in the past decade, I'll show you a THOUSAND registered voters who've been wrongfully disenfranchised by Republicans and their operatives.
It's a matter of degree, Dave - and in ANY objective comparison, the Republicans are found wanting.
3 - handyguy
This article seems a bit desperate. Yes, Grayson is a blowhard.
So are at least half of the GOP members in the House.
You don't have to look far to find loony and/or despicable video of say, Michelle Bachmann, Virginia Fox, Devin Nunes, Steve King on the House floor saying things that no educated person should ever be caught saying in public.
Their speeches have no relation to verifiable facts or reasonable argument -- it's all about rhetoric and effect and playing to the base. And it is taking our politics to new lows nearly every week.
4 - handyguy
Forgot to include Todd Tiahrt. He's a real gem.
And Ken Cuccinelli, attorney general of Virginia. Bet you're proud of him too. Such a great guy standing up against those homos and all. We're so threatening, ya know.
5 - Glenn Contrarian
and Dave -
When I listed those numbers, those ratios in comment #2 above, do you really think I'm pulling those numbers out of the air? I think you know those aren't idle boasts.
But that begs the question - if both parties are equally corrupt, then WHY such a disparity in the numbers? The answer's simpler than you might think - it's the personality of the party. I think you must agree that generally speaking, the Republican and Democratic parties both tend to attract people of certain personalities...
...and the numbers (particularly of those indicted and/or convicted) strongly indicate that the Republican party tends to attract those who are less concerned about following ethics and laws. You yourself must agree that Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to hold the phrase "political correctness" in utter contempt...and whatever you might think, this DOES translate on some level a certain contempt for the law.
I'm sorry, Dave, but the numbers are not on your side.
6 - roger nowosielski
"What bothers me a lot more than a couple of dunderheaded Democrats is the vitriolic tone in the voices of Hare's interlocutors."
Exactly. Who the fuck are they, excuse my French? And why should anyone be subjected to that, whoever they are?
Not a peep from Dave, though. But perhaps it's excusable because a Democrat was on the firing line.
7 - handyguy
And although Mr. Grayson is easy to criticize, he actually plays his questionable game rather well -- providing a Dem equivalent to Bachmann, anything for a sound bite.
But in addition, have you really listened to that urologist in Florida? Talk about an underinformed blowhard. He has virtually no idea what he is talking about, makes utterly false claims about the health care bill, and can't even formulate an answer when an interviewer challenges his lack of knowledge.
8 - El Bicho
A weak attempt to distract from Glenn's article
9 - Baritone
Whoever was questioning Hare they were obviously hostile from the get go. Hare's comments about the Constitution were, well Hare brained, but the agressive hostility of those interrogating him was extremely provocative which obviously put him very much on the defensive. He answered rather thoughtlessly, but was both rattled and angry.
As is always the case with Nalle, he loves to extrapolate or suggest that one or two instances of bad behaviour or stupidity is indicative the same is true of all. I suppose he thinks he's being subtle and clever. Rather, he is obvious and obnoxious.
I know Grayson is a news hog. He loves the camera. His accusations against the doctor were mis-directed, but handy is on the money about him. The good doctor is obviously taking the opportunity to get his own 15 minutes. He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
B
10 - handyguy
He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
And that's a disturbing quality in a urologist.
11 - Baritone
It certainly is.
12 - Dave Nalle
Exactly. Who the fuck are they, excuse my French? And why should anyone be subjected to that, whoever they are?
For Christ's sake. They're CONSTITUENTS and they are understandably angry and they deserve answers to their questions and they deserve representatives who respect them and respect the Constitution.
I put Grayson and Hare up here as examples of why people are so angry at the Democrats and the government right now. I could have put up Reid and Pelosi but that would have been too predictable. This cancer infects their party from the lowest to the highest.
And despite the numbers which Glenn pulls out of his ass, there's no evidence suggesting greater corruption among Republicans than among Democrats. In fact, the last 6 Congressmen actually convicted of crimes have been Democrats.
Why he keeps trying to make this about corruption I don't know, since it's a losing argument for him, but it's not about corruption or criminality. It's about arrogance and disregard for the people and the Constitution.
Dave
13 - STM
"Excuse my French".
My God, there they are again - The French!!!
Sacre bleu ... that pack of cheese-eatin', universal-healthcare lovin', socialist garlic gobblers.
I mean, what can America learn from them when it comes to running a popular, world-beating, (free) healthcare system??
Allez, America ...
14 - cannonshop
Glenn, Dave, don't fight yet, I haven't popped the popcorn, and I don't have the easy-chair set up to watch!!
15 - roger nowosielski
"They're CONSTITUENTS and they are understandably angry . . ."
Am I supposed to read this as an understatement?
16 - Baronius
Come on, Dave, how could you not include Hank Johnson, the Democratic congressman who's worried that Guam is too long and narrow and it might capsize?
17 - zingzing
"Grayson reached the pinacle of nuttiness and bigotry this past week when he accused a Florida doctor of racism because he doesn't want to serve voters who supported Obamacare. He has also recently called a lobbyist a "whore," called Dick Cheney a "vampire" and called Republicans "knuckle dragging neanderthals."
well, i'd say that the doctor is the pinnacle of nuttiness. as a doctor, you shouldn't care about your patients' politics. it's bad form. even doctors fighting in war will try to help an enemy combatant. that doctor is a creep. and lobbyists are whores, and cheney is a vampire and republicans are...
baronius: "Come on, Dave, how could you not include Hank Johnson, the Democratic congressman who's worried that Guam is too long and narrow and it might capsize?"
because that's obviously not what he was trying to say. it just came out funny. very funny. but obviously not literal.
18 - Glenn Contrarian
So...Dave!
I just spent an hour or so doing the numbers since you said I "pulled them out of my ass". It turns out I am NOT correct when I said the Republicans have twice as many convicted/indicted as the Democrats...but I WAS close enough for my statement to stand that, generally speaking, the Republican party IS more corrupt than the Democratic party. Furthermore, the types of crimes involved are especially pertinent to our dispute.
Here's the breakdown concerning presidents, vice presidents, congresspersons, and high political appointees since Nixon took office:
Nixon:
18 Republicans convicted
0 Democrats convicted
Ford:
2 Republicans convicted
3 Democrats convicted, 2 Democrats indicted/resigned
Carter:
0 Republicans convicted
2 Democrats convicted
Reagan:
20 Republicans convicted
13 Democrats convicted, 3 Democrats indicted/resigned
Bush 41:
2 Republicans convicted
1 Democrat convicted.
======note that it was in 1994 that the Republicans began holding a majority in Congress, and held that majority for 12 years until 2006=======
Clinton:
4 Republicans convicted
10 Democrats convicted, 1 Democrat indicted/resigned
Bush 43:
23 Republicans convicted, 23 Republicans indicted/resigned
5 Democrats convicted, 2 Democrats indicted/resigned
Obama:
1 Republican indicted/resigned
1 Democrat convicted, I Democrat indicted/resigned
Totals:
51 Republicans convicted, 24 indicted/resigned
35 Democrats convicted, 9 indicted/resigned
Furthermore, browse through the reference at the top of this comment and look at the seriousness of the crimes involved. Almost without exception, the Democrats' crimes involved money or (in only a few cases) sex. The Republicans' crimes involved money and sex to be sure, but ALSO power - Watergate, Iran-Contra, the Reagan-era 'sewergate', the Bush 43 'lawyergate', Iraq-gate, Plame-gate, and other 'gates'. NOT ONE of the scandals involving Democrats approached the sheer scale or seriousness of Watergate, Iran-Contra, or 'lawyergate'.
The data show that power - and the preservation thereof - are a greater draw to the Republican mind than to the Democratic mind. This would also explain why the Republicans cry again and again about the Democrats and voter fraud in every election, even though there is NO evidence of such a conspiracy by Democrats OR their supporters, whereas tens of thousands of registered voters were wrongly disenfranchised by voter caging over the last two presidential elections - and ALL cases of voter caging have been by the Republican party, and ALL were used against majority-Democratic or majority African-American districts! (hence my thousand-to-one challenge to you that you cannot answer)
Why? Power, and the preservation thereof.
Okay, Dave - MY CONTENTION STANDS. I've presented hard proof that generally speaking, Republicans ARE more corrupt than Democrats, and if I really need to, I can dig up more. I've shown you mine...now show me YOURS!
19 - John Wilson
Alan Grayson is pretty good: he's done an excellent job for his Florida constituents and took a principled stand on healthcare reform.
Here's some of his background from his congressional website:
" His parents were teachers. They made great sacrifices, to make sure that Alan received the best education.
Alan was a sick child. His mother took him to the hospital four times a week, for treatment. Without health coverage, he would not be alive today. He remembers that.
Alan rode the subway to school each day, and he worked hard. He was the valedictorian of his junior high school. By passing a test, he was admitted to an exclusive public high school. In high school, he achieved the highest test score among almost 50,000 students who took the test. Harvard College saw something in him, and admitted him.
For Alan, life at Harvard wasn’t easy. Alan cleaned toilets, and worked as a night watchman. Yet he earned a bachelor’s degree in only three years, with high honors, and he was Phi Beta Kappa. Alan graduated from Harvard in the top two percent of his class.
...
Alan’s master’s thesis was on the important subject of gerontology " how to improve the health of older people. Alan called for the creation of an organization to support research on the health of seniors. Shortly after he left school, Alan formed such an organization: the Alliance for Aging Research. Alan served as an officer of the Alliance for 22 years. Alan’s Alliance has increased federal support for aging research by 500%, leading to breakthroughs in the treatment of blindness, weak bones, Alzheimer’s disease, and other afflictions of the elderly. The motto of the Alliance is “Living to 100 " and Loving It.”
Wall Street firms recruited Alan heavily when he graduated from Harvard Law School, but Alan chose to be a judge’s assistant instead. For two years, he worked with such luminaries as Judge (now Justice) Ginsburg, Judge (now Justice) Scalia, Judge Mikva, Judge Bork, and others. ...
From the beginning of his legal career, Alan gravitated toward the important question of how the Government spends the taxpayers’ money. He mastered the incredibly complex rules regarding government contracting, and represented hundreds of clients in that field.
In the early 1990s, Alan took leave from the practice of law, and started a business. Alan was the first President of IDT Corp., a telecom/internet company. The business started on the second floor of a funeral home. It grew to be a $2 billion-a-year business, on the Fortune 1000 list, and traded on the New York Stock Exchange. In short, Alan has lived the American Dream, starting a successful business and seeing it grow.
Later, Alan decided to leave that business, and return to the practice of law. Alan and his wife also decided to move to Orlando, and raise a family. ...
After Alan went back to the field of government contracts law, he began to represent whistleblowers, who witnessed fraud against the Government. Alan brought more and more False Claims Act cases on behalf of those whistleblowers, against fraudulent contractors. After the war in Iraq began, Alan was the only attorney who was willing to pursue such cases, in the face of hostility from the Bush Administration. Congress called on Alan four times to testify about contractor fraud in Iraq. Taxpayers Against Fraud named Alan Grayson its Lawyer of the Year. Public Justice also recognized Alan for his work. The Wall St. Journal lauded Alan, saying that he was “waging a one-man war against contractor fraud in Iraq.” And Vanity Fair published an 11-page profile.
Alan’s mammoth struggle against contractor fraud has been applauded by liberals and conservatives alike....
"
20 - Mark Schannon
These two come off pretty good compared to Palin, Bachman, Cheeney, the Republican leadership, the Foxettes, Beckster, et al.
They're not the most articulate artichokes in the forest, but they're not mean spirited, lying, manipulative thugs. And being a constituent doesn't give one the right to be rude, abusive, and disrespectful.
If this is the best you can do, Dave, I'm feeling pretty good about donkeys vs. pachyderms.
In Jameson Veritas
21 - roger nowosielski
Thanks for the dossier, John. It surely cuts a different picture of Grayson than the one represented by Dave Nalle's one-sided video.
I sure would have liked to get a glimpse of his interlocutors.
22 - Baronius
Mark, I didn't think that you considered yourself to be in either political camp. (I could be wrong.) But don't you think that the willingness to call a spade a spade, even in your own party, is a necessity for civilized discussion? Grayson and Hare made fools of themselves.
23 - roger nowosielski
And you don't almost every other time you post?
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
24 - Glenn Contrarian
Baronius -
Like I keep telling Dave, it's a matter of degree. For every Dem that you point out that makes inflammatory statements, I'll point out a minimum of FIVE Republicans who do...most of whom's statements are MORE inflammatory than Grayson's.
Care to take me up on this challenge?
Like I keep saying, it's a matter of degree...and you've got FAR more fire-breathers on your side of the aisle.
25 - Dave Nalle
" His parents were teachers. They made great sacrifices, to make sure that Alan received the best education.
Read more: http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/voices-of-idiocy-from-the-left/#ixzz0kYklrwvf
Wow, just like Sarah Palin. Does that mean that Grayson and Palin are both equally good in your eyes, JW?
Dave