More of our democracy and formerly "free" country got flushed down the toilet last week when the House of Republicans voted to allow states to freely discriminate against American citizens on the basis of religion.
That's right, we can already freely discriminate against gays in this country, now we can add religion to the list of the discriminated.
The Republican-led House approved a bill that lets churches and other faith-based preschool centers hire only people who share their religion, yet still receive federal tax dollars.
Yay! Free discrimination with no consequences - and the government will even pay you to do it!
That's right, Head Start Programs that are run by Catholics, now would have the right to refuse employment to anyone who is not Catholic. And the same would hold true for any faith. So what we have here is government funded discrimination. I'd love to see what would happen if a traditional company decided not to hire Christians because they disagreed with their religion - how fast would that company be slapped with lawsuits and lose any form of federal assistance or support?
This is just another case of theocratic policy making - letting the Christians have their cake and f--- everyone else. We've already seen the separation of church and state go away when Bush & Co. authorized the federal government to allow funds to go to faith-based organizations. Then we had that very enjoyable law that allows doctors, nurses, pharmacists and other healthcare workers to refuse to participate in treatment or prescribe or dispense medicine to people if they disagree with their lifestyles for religious reasons. Now we have the Equal Opportunity Laws being discarded in favor of hiring along religious lines.
This administration has gone out of its way to spit and piss on every civil right or human right ever awarded and they have gotten a 100% approval rating on their goal of splitting the country along religious lines. America is now the most polarized nation in history that hasn't started a civil war...yet.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Josh
Your a nut. Freedom is the right to hire whomever I want for whatever reason I want. I'm not a racist or against religion, but you dont have a "right" to work anywhere you want to.
2 - Greg Smyth
I don't agree that he's a nut. You can't (and nor should you be able to) discriminate on race, so why should religion be any different?
That said, there are certain jobs where being of a certain persuasion might be necessary or at least preferable. You're unlikely to make a very good editor of a Christian magazine if you're not a Christian, for example.
3 - Rudicus
So apparently you want to feel free to discriminate against people for whatever reason you want. I guess that if you didn't want to hire diasbled people or gay people or jews or black people or women or people who didn't like the Red Sox or people who didn't like your favorite T.V. shows just because you didn;t like them - that would be fine with you.
Well guess what, if you had actually read the article and not spent all your time on ad hominem attacks and nonsense, you might have realized that the article was about GOVERNMENT SPONSORSHIP of discrimination.
So if you have your own private company and do not receive any funds from the federal government then you can feel free to discriminate as much as your war chest to defend against EOE lawsuits will allow, but if you get money from the gov't, it's not appropriate and violates everything this country used to stad for. But then you must be one of the "stupid, lazy, self-centered and non-thinking American sheeple" I was talking about.
Thanks for providing a live example for everyone - I appreciate it.
4 - Dave Nalle
I'm an atheist and even I think your argument here is ridiculous. Faith based businesses should be allowed to hire whoever they want and exclude whoever they want. In fact, all hiring should be that way. Now, if a church is running a daycare, that operation should NOT be tax exempt even if the church is. Ideally, of course, not even the church should be tax exempt.
I wonder how much it would help out the deficit if we started taxing churches.
Dave
5 - Rudicus
Perhaps I was unclear.
My concern is not with people discriminating (at least in this post) it's with the idea that my government that I am forced to pay for with my tax dollars is seeing fit to use that money to organizations that discriminate.
I don't think it should be against the law if a private religious company wants to only hire like minded people as long as it doesn't violate EOE standards (which this does). My point is that by giving these people money and specifically setting up a situation where they are allowed to violate EOE standards is an alarming and frightening thing.
All of this on top of the idea that somehow a Catholic teacher is more qualified than a muslim teacher because the Catholic church is running the school is beyond ridiculous. And if for some reason these folks are indoctrinating these children into a religion or set of beliefs then not only does that violate church and state laws but that makes the schools private faith-based schools who likewise should not be eligible for governemnt funds.
It's the government funding and involvement in these programs that is the problem, folks.
6 - Dave Nalle
Rudicus, who said the government wasn't giving grant money and other support to non-Christian religious schools too?
dave
7 - Bob
I agree with Josh and Dave that the argument is not quite there and that yes, I should be able to hire whomever I want for whatever reason I want. I see your point about government funds being involved, but if I do not hire people who read book A, then you are free to start a business that only hires people who must read book A and get the same funding. I don't see the right to work anywhere in the Constitution - feel free to point it out if I missed it. It is not that the government is only saying it is going to support the Catholics, it would support anyone - sounds fine with me. Feel free to start the Satan Worshipers school - that is fine by me.
8 - Rudicus
Nobody said that, but again, that's not the point. Previous to this administration is was illegal to descriminate on the basis of sex, race or religious affiliation. Also previous to this administration we separation of church and state, which means that the government cannot fund and/or participate in groups, organizations or institutions that promote religion - especially if it is a specific religion.
This bill violates both of those. Faaith-based groups shouldn't be getting a penny from the federal government for anything.
9 - Rudicus
So what everyone seems to be saying is that if I am an early childhood education teacher or an educational administrator and I apply for a job at a school, it should be perfectly ok for the school to hire someone less qualified but Catholic just because the school is run by the Catholic church and I'm a Baptist.
And by that rationale, the same school should be able to not hire anyone who is a homosexual because that goes against the church according to them. And they would also be able to not hire a woman who had a child out of wedlock, since that would also violate the tenents of their religion.
Please explain to me how this is any different from not hiring someone because they are black and giving that job to a less qualified white person because they are white.
It's called discrimination people, and it's against the law (or at least it was). And if none of you see any problem with this, I guess the country is in far worse shape than I thought.
And I want all of you to tell me with a straight face that if I opened up a satanic Head Start program, it would be viewed with the same openness as the Christian Head Start program and would receive the exact same funding and protection from the federal government. Keep dreaming.
10 - Lawrence Kennon
It is ok with me. I don't care if America doesn't support some absolute vision of political correctness. I don't care if a Christian organization doesn't hire someone it doesn't like, for whatever reason. There are other freedoms too, like a freedom to _not_ associate with some people, and a freedom to be able to say that you think some lifestyles are not the best (whether you're right, or wrong).
If these people are helping others then I don't care if they don't hire the occasional homosexual, Satanist, or whatever. I just don't care. Freedom is not an absolute. Freedom is a compromise between the individual and the greater good of all.
And no, I am not a Christian Fundamentalist (look at my url).
11 - TBJ
I totally see your point, where do I sign up for that Canada-migration-thing?
I gotta get my satan-loving gay partner and my pedophile-bisexual-dog to come too.
Seriously, we are living in very crazy times. I would've thought 10 years ago that the "future" would've brought more peace, brotherhood and equality to all, was I ever so wrong!!
The future is here, we have a fanatic-christian in power(although I think he is not that conservative to begin with but you gotta please the peeps) and one by one our civil rights are going down the toilet. I just hope it never gets to the point where I am literally afraid to come out of my house during the day just because i am a minority, not-christian, and i am gay..err.wait...
12 - Natalie Davis
The government funds is the only real point. If a church (or any other enterprise) wants to discriminate, they should feel free to do so -- UNLESS they receive any form of government funding. Take taxpayer money and you should not be able to discriminate against qualified taxpayers. Period.
13 - Dave Nalle
>>o what everyone seems to be saying is that if I am an early childhood education teacher or an educational administrator and I apply for a job at a school, it should be perfectly ok for the school to hire someone less qualified but Catholic just because the school is run by the Catholic church and I'm a Baptist.<<
Absolutely.
>>And by that rationale, the same school should be able to not hire anyone who is a homosexual because that goes against the church according to them. And they would also be able to not hire a woman who had a child out of wedlock, since that would also violate the tenents of their religion.<<
No question. In fact, many businesses have morals clauses which exclude hiring people who engage in certain types of behavior. This could not be used to reject a homosexual who was circumspect about sexual behavior, but it could certainly rule out a promiscuous homosexual. The key is behavior.
>>Please explain to me how this is any different from not hiring someone because they are black and giving that job to a less qualified white person because they are white.<<
It's different because your religion and your sexual behavior are matters of choice and your skin color is not.
>>It's called discrimination people, and it's against the law (or at least it was). And if none of you see any problem with this, I guess the country is in far worse shape than I thought.<<
Discrimination is not against the law. Discrimination on the basis of race, age, gender or national origin is against the law, because those are all things you have no choice about. You can definitely not hire smokers or baptists or people with body piercings, because those are choices.
>>And I want all of you to tell me with a straight face that if I opened up a satanic Head Start program, it would be viewed with the same openness as the Christian Head Start program and would receive the exact same funding and protection from the federal government. Keep dreaming.<<
It certainly should be. The Nation of Islam gets substantial local and federal funding for their programs, and Satanists could do the same. Of course, Satanists would take the money and spend it on drugs and hookers, so they might lose their funding pretty fast.
Dave
14 - TBJ
Dave,
Your point is totally nullified by your penchant for generalizations.
First of all, are you gay? How can you be so certain that "gayness" is a choice? Sure someone can "choose" whether to be a slut or not, and this applies to any orientation. Also, you can "choose" to come out of the closet or not, but you surely know by now how good of a life closeted gay people have, of course, I bet you hide a lot of things from people too and it feels great.
Now, as to whether being gay is a choice or not, tell me this...how could someone, fully knowing how mistreated and discriminated they will be, still "choose" to be that way? do you think it is easy to have all the requisite teenage traumas PLUS having to deal with people like you? didn't think so.
Second of all, you basically assumed that all "satanists" spend their money on booze and hookers, what about all these so-called christians who rape, are pedophiles and basically get arrested on a daily basis? dont you watch the news?
dont generalize, every person you know is very different from one another, even so-called christians have a thing or two they would like to hide. never generalize, that's the same thing Hitler did and look at what happened.
15 - troll
he didn't day orientaion...he said behavior
troll
16 - TBJ
So how exactly do you define "behavior" and just "being" something?? How is a straight person supposed to "behave" how is a gay person supposed to "behave"?
I just dont feel all that good that the people in power(i.e. government) have this same frame of mind as this dave person..that is why the world hates us, that is why we are so divided, more so than ever..because people can't see past their own noses in issues that they know nothing about.
17 - Jared
"Please explain to me how this is any different from not hiring someone because they
are black and giving that job to a less qualified white person because they are white.
That happens. It's called affirmative action. Sadly, it goes the other way, since some of our ancestors were dumb enoug to be racists in the first place. But there're plenty of instances where a black person is given a job to fulfill a set minority hiring quota or just to send the impression of a diverse hiring policy.
"First of all, are you gay? How can you be so certain that "gayness" is a choice?
At the least, you can choose to keep your homosexuality to yourself. That is a choice. Me, personally, I'm relatively certain that homosexuality is a choice, so whatever.
Last I checked, the basic principal of a democracy is majority rule. And if the majority is Christian, straight, or whatever variable we're talking about, then that majority is going to have the upper hand in matters such as this. If it bothers you that much, move to Canada. We can use the drop in population.
18 - TBJ
I would love to know how you are so certain of that. Was it that you were gay before and now are in love with a woman? if so, then you are bisexual, plain and simple. Please explain.
Discrimination is wrong in any way, worst if the government is sponsoring this type of behaviour. wouldn't you just love it if your tax dollars went to "actual" important issues, say, like "education"?
I work at a university and the other day a student asked me how to spell ADMINISTRATOR. If that is not a symptom of what is wrong with this country, then I don't know.
I just love how Uncle sam does not discriminate in any way when he takes away more than 15% of my hard-earned money bi-weekly, yet if I want something as simple as "equality" he looks the other way..hmm..
19 - TBJ
I would love to know how you are so certain of that. Was it that you were gay before and now are in love with a woman? if so, then you are bisexual, plain and simple. Please explain.
Discrimination is wrong in any way, worst if the government is sponsoring this type of behaviour. wouldn't you just love it if your tax dollars went to "actual" important issues, say, like "education"?
I work at a university and the other day a student asked me how to spell ADMINISTRATOR. If that is not a symptom of what is wrong with this country, then I don't know.
I just love how Uncle sam does not discriminate in any way when he takes away more than 15% of my hard-earned money bi-weekly, yet if I want something as simple as "equality" he looks the other way..hmm..
20 - Dr. Kurt
Federally-funded grants for booze and hookers? Sweet!
Come on, ya'll, the post was pretty simple & clear: our tax money is now paying for illegal/unconstitutional discrimination. Yet again, Congress stumbles; we can only hope the Supreme Court will do its duty, since the Executive Branch surely won't. Our founding fathers were brilliant - too bad our Nation today doesn't measure up...
21 - Baronius
Heh. Rudicus, even McEnroe didn't dispute every call that went against him.
22 - TBJ
Why should I move to Canada? they are not the ones taking my money.
23 - Dave Nalle
>>Your point is totally nullified by your penchant for generalizations.<<
You might want to work on your penchant for making assumptions rather than reading what I wrote, which was carefully worded and very specific.
>>First of all, are you gay? How can you be so certain that "gayness" is a choice? Sure someone can "choose" whether to be a slut or not, and this applies to any orientation. Also, you can "choose" to come out of the closet or not, but you surely know by now how good of a life closeted gay people have, of course, I bet you hide a lot of things from people too and it feels great.<<
I didn't say being gay was a choice. I said that blatantly gay behavior was.
>>Now, as to whether being gay is a choice or not, tell me this...how could someone, fully knowing how mistreated and discriminated they will be, still "choose" to be that way? do you think it is easy to have all the requisite teenage traumas PLUS having to deal with people like you? didn't think so.<<
People like me? You mean people who think being gay is just fine and support gay marriage? Yep, we're the problem for the gay community.
>>Second of all, you basically assumed that all "satanists" spend their money on booze and hookers, what about all these so-called christians who rape, are pedophiles and basically get arrested on a daily basis? dont you watch the news?<<
Now this IS an area I have some real expertise in. "Do what you will shall be the whole of the law" - that means lots of drugs and easy women. Then you grow up a bit, get born again and become a Christian minister. I've seen it happen.
So try to read more carefully so you don't look foolish mischaracterizing what I write, or I'll send an ex-satanist born again preacher I know over to tongue=lash the gay devils out of you.
Dave
24 - Al Barger
Rudicus supports discrimination against religious groups, and suppression of their freedom of association. That's not right.
25 - Steve S
At the least, you can choose to keep your homosexuality to yourself. That is a choice. Me, personally, I'm relatively certain that homosexuality is a choice, so whatever.
How is it a choice to keep homosexuality to yourself?
I'm gay and I'm damn sure I didn't chose this, it has been a very difficult road for me. I wanted a family, I wanted kids, couldn't have them being gay without an extra 100k on hand. I wanted to be free from violence, attempted murder, and police brutality. I didn't choose anything put before me. Homosexuality is NOT a choice.
And how do I keep it to myself? I have a partner, we have a child. What are we supposed to do, not acknowledge our own family? Remain closeted forever? Never show affection so that YOU don't feel discomfort?
--
And Dave, your earlier comments about businesses being able to fire based on 'homosexual behavior'. What exactly does that mean?
YOu can put a picture of your spouse on your desk and bring your spouse to an office party and that's all fine and good. Can I do that too, or for me is that homosexual behavior?