UCLA student picks a fight and gets Tased. Hilarity does not ensue.
University police officers used a Taser on a student repeatedly during an altercation at the UCLA library at 11:30 pm November 15. There was a video made by a student witness, who captured only the end of the altercation with the student shouting profanities at the police and then screaming in pain when he was tasered.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - John Bambenek
According to the Human Rights Watch and the "international community" the only human rights abusers are the United States and Israel.
77 - indy
Why is this incident being used as a right-wing vs. left wing thing? I thought all people in this country enjoyed their civil rights, whether they leaning left, right or stand in the middle. The cops were being thugs, no ifs, ands, or buts. How is it ever necessary to repeatedly stun a man, no matter what a "jerk-off" he is, 4 times WHILE HANDCUFFED?!!!!!! Maybe he deserved it in the beginning, I did not see what led up to the incident. But repeated use of a taser on a restrained individual who is not a physical threat to anyone is disturbing, cruel and unusual punishment (remember that constitutional thing? though I know both sides, right and left, like to ignore certain parts of it). They were tasering him because he would not, probably could not, stand up(tasering someone can leave them incapacitated for 5 to 15 minutes). Oh, and these tasers that "do not cause fatalities" has killed over 100 people in the last seven years.
78 - Les Slater
John Bambenek #76
"According to the Human Rights Watch and the "international community" the only human rights abusers are the United States and Israel."
I wonder if he actually believes this. Just making such a statement not only puts his credibility in question, but also his ability to think.
79 - John Bambenek
A handcuffed can kick (and he was flailing around when they tried to drag him down the stairwell) and he can bite.
This person was being a thug, picked a fight with police and lost. It's just that simple.
Sure, a taser, set high enough, can immobilize someone, but this guy was still screaming at the top of his longs encouraging a riot.
And tasers ** by themseves ** have not caused fatalities. Every 100 of those people had drugs in their systems. I've taught a class on electrical injury at the University of Illinois, tasers figured large in the course. In each and every case of taser use that had a fatality, there was drug use also. No office is authorized to use a taser unless they have had one used on them first (a little twisted, sure, but that's the rules).
If he couldn't stand up, he sure was able to run off his mouth like he could. And that doesn't even deal with his flailing around in the stairwell.
80 - John Bambenek
Les-
I want you to count every condemnation by the new UN rights body, and you let me know the breakout by nation.
(Hint: 100% are against Israel)
81 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
John they stunned him several times after he ceased to resist in any physical way and was handcuffed. They could have easily dragged him out, no problem. Instead they chose to taser him and make a scene. The only explanation for this is that they had taken it upon themselves to physically punish the insolent brat, which is completely inapropriate and illegal.
82 - John Bambenek
You're right, they should have put him up in the nearest five-star hotel and spoon-fed him caviar.
This man was a hero.
Give him a medal.
83 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Two police men, no not even, ONE police man is completely capable of dragging out a writhing handcuffed suspect - and he wasnt even writhing.
84 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
No, you drag him out in disgrace, put him in lock up and charge him with something, instead of making him a martyr and allowing him to seek rewards. NO ONE is questioning the kid was out of line Bambi. Get over your hate man. You can hate the kid, even wish he recieve many years hard jail time for his act, and still condemn the actions of the police.
85 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
No one is buying his stupid martyr act. His "look this your Patriot Act!" seems just as absurd to me and everyone else as it does to you.
86 - John Bambenek
I'm not hating anything.
It's you, who can't have a discussion without moralizing your opponent that's got an emotional stake in this game.
87 - indy
John Bambenek #80
Let me just first state that I think tasers have their legitamate uses for police, but this was DEFINITELY not one of them!
Did you even watch the video? Why are you trying to rationalize this obvious abuse of power and sadistic torture? I saw no kicking or biting or flailing in the stairwell, so unless you were there, I doubt you did either. The video showed him being dragged out on his knees, handcuffed. All eye-witness accounts state that he was limp and not be physically threatening to anyone when he was being tased repeatedly, only not following a command to stand. Why was it necessary for him to stand anyway? And since when does "runnig your mouth" mean you deserve to be tasered by pea-brained, obvoiusly compensating for something small,police? And since when does asking a cop a question, as one student who was questioning their unnecessary use of force, deserved to be threatened to also be "tased too." Umm...illegal ASSUALT (threatening bodily harm)!!!, I am so glad it was caught on tape! That jerk (obviously compensating for something small) cop needs to lose his job. Like I said THUGS. And since you are such an apparent expert on taser use, can you please post the law that states that a cop can can threaten to taser a non-violent bystander or taser a passive resister (UCPD words not mine)? And who says the kid was not on drugs, maybe he was, do drug users deserve to be tasered for forgetting their ID card. He did scream out that he had a medical condition, and that "you just stunned me" after commands to stand.
88 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
John, you want to talk about moralizing your opponent? Might I remind you of this select comment you made at post # 31 in this thread:
Anonymous-
Why do you hate America?
Now please, don't lecture me on moralizing my opponent.
89 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
As for your hate of the "victim" I simply deduced it from your sarcastic comments in reference to the "victim"
You're right, they should have put him up in the nearest five-star hotel and spoon-fed him caviar.
This man was a hero.
Give him a medal.
You obviously have a problem with this kid, and you seem to be having a hard time getting over it. In fact, the majority of your article is about the STUDENT, not the police. Hence the theme of your article "he picked a fight and lost." No one's questioning he picked a fight or that he lost. What we're questioning is the inapropriate (and illegal) response of the police officers. And what on earth does the general misbehavior of other students, which you cite in your article, have to do with analyzing the actions of the police? From this, and your other recent article attacking college kids, I can only assume you have a vendetta against them. Instead of devoting yourself ignoring the police's actions and attacking the student, you should be attacking both.
90 - indy
John Bambenek #31
I love America, that is why this incident is so unaceptable to me. You seem to be the one who hates America, for rationalizing this use of such ridiculous force on an American. If you love a police state so much, move to North Korea. The communists might love your ideas.
91 - Les Slater
John Bambenek,
Your #81, presumably in response to my #79 responding to your #76.
You reply, "I want you to count every condemnation by the new UN rights body, and you let me know the breakout by nation. (Hint: 100% are against Israel)"
Now, that's has nothing to do with your claim in #76. "According to the Human Rights Watch and the 'international community' the only human rights abusers are the United States and Israel."
Human Rights Watch is specific and the 'international community' is quite broad.
I do not even think you could support the statement you made in #76. So, you rephrase it.
So, the 'new UN rights body' doesn't condemn anyone but Israel? 100%, no less? That's nonsense.
I went their site and there was much discussion of their activity, in Africa for instance, about dealing with human rights. Do you interpret that as condoning human rights violations?
Now on Israel, they protested quite vehemently. Among other things, they felt threatened by Israeli aircraft approaching their positions, which necessitated them taking action in preparation for defensive fire at those aircraft.
I presume I don't have to tell you how many countries Human Rights Watch condemns for human rights violations. (Hint: more that 2)
92 - John Bambenek
Tasering this clown wasn't police abuse...
This is police abuse.
UCLA killed my inner child.
93 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
I don't see what the difference is Bambi,
They both picked fights, they both lost, and in both situations the police made it personal, and responded with the unecessary infliction of pain.
94 - wow
Wow, is it really doing you guys or anyone else any good to post online attacks at each other. By calling each other dumbasses and assholes, none of you are getting your point across. For those of you who think what happened was unfair, do something about, e-mail the UClA Acting Chancellor and express your concerns. It's not doing you any good nor changing anyone else's mind posting comments on this stupid blog. All of you, grow some class.
95 - RedTard
Someone above made an astute comment above about this touching some psychological nerves within people. I'm still not sure why it does or why I care what some idiot college student and asshole policemen did though.
Perhaps is has to do with the social contract and the conservatives who've 'bought into' the current system don't appreciate or empathize with those who go against it. Liberals, who believe the system is already really fucked up anyway, see what they want as well.
I have to do lot's of things I don't like. I'd rather take the 5 tazers than pay my income taxes any quarter. If I'm willing to concede and work with the system with tangible assets and property then surely some idiot college student can show ID at the library we pay for and the loan we pay for and the security for his protection we pay for and the lawsuits that'll end up coming about that we'll pay for too.
Secondly, it's very frustrating how the media, old and new, approach things like this. Police officers are assaulted, harassed, have their tires slashed and property vandalized as thanks for their jobs all the time. Those incidents rarely make anything other than local news.
I probably err on the side of downplaying incidents like this for the simple fact that I think they're already being overplayed and probably contribute to the cycle of hatred, mistrust, and violence.
96 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Well said Redtard. This really isn't that big of an incident. A college kid acted spoiled and insolent and police responded with unnecessary force. Not much else to it. Both deserve some kind of discipline. It's not like it was police torture - it was a heated situation, and it's not like the kid assaulted the officers - he was just a public nussance. Like you said, it's just hitting nerves. What's hitting my nerves is people trying to justify all the actions of the police officers. 5 Taserings to an already handcuffed subject being held on his knees by TWO police officers, and who has ceased to resist, is just unnecessary and excessive.
97 - Arsham
I do wish nothing such as this never happens to your family (or are you seriously simpleminded enough to think it wont?), but if it does, would love to come back and read your blog!
Cops can make mistakes, sure… but their mistakes pose a greater threat due to the nature of their responsibilities and power.
However, looking at the video over and over again, I see only sadistic power-hungry savages dressed up in police clothes, trying to prove their authority and possibly make up for a F’ed up childhood! Embarrassing!
It is our right to dispute those in power, or haven’t you heard? That is called freedom!
98 - Anthony (Forensics)
The police followed proper protocol. They had three options; engage in a hand to hand combat (which is frowned upon), use the club or taser the person. Police policy states the use of force one level higher than the disgruntled criminal. Basically, if you grab a police officer and/or throw your weight to the ground when one tries to remove you from the premises and you get tazed then so be it... admit you're an idiot and move on.. this student is an instigator. If a Iranian puts their hand on an Iranian Police(militants) in Iran they would have had their hands cut off and/or hanged on the spot. People get tazered all the time, but it becomes a big deal when the person is from a nation that coddles terrorists.
99 - gazelle
israel needs tasering by the US for being in gaza illegally ,,,
best
100 - Les Slater
I think John has confirmed one of the two themes in my posts to this thread. From my #54, “The general observation I have made in following this thread is that when confronted with some situations, some ideas, some people genuinely lose their ability to think rationally.”
John’s #76 presented a perfect opportunity to demonstrate this. My #78 posed this quite explicitly: “I wonder if he actually believes this. Just making such a statement not only puts his credibility in question, but also his ability to think.”
So John comes back with #81, trying to squirm out of the dilemma.
John has to answer just a few simple questions. Does he still believe that the statement he made in #76 to be true? Did he believe it when he made it? If not, what reason did he have to publish it? Did he preview the statement before hitting the publish button? Did he read it and understand it?
101 - John Bambenek
You make an assumption that I'm trying to engage in debate with you.
I've long learned that the gibbering yard apes from the fever swamp who spam comments threads online aren't the kind of people you can generally have a conversation with.
So basically, I've been trolling you.
Also, Taze him again.
102 - Anonymous
Bambi, #76:
How about a reference, Bambi?
Today, I see Angola, Uganda, Peru, Chile, Vietnam and Iran on the front page for rights violations. And the US and Israel. Now, do you think a beacon of freedom should be keeping such company? I thought the United States was founded on a recognition of human rights. To be systematically violating them in the name of "protecting the Murr'can people" should be beneath our nation's dignity.
In other words...
Why do you so hate America, Bambi, that you would cheer on an administration set on destroying the nation's founding principles?
Pah!
103 - Les Slater
"So basically, I've been trolling you."
Wow, i'm impressed, and flattered. You mean your original post was nothing but a set-up, a trap, bait, just to bring me out?
Whata wimp.
104 - John Bambenek
No, the original post was serious... I don't give any serious thought to the commenters anymore.
I have no inclination to debate anonymous cowards who think calling me Bambi is clever.
105 - Les Slater
"I have no inclination to debate anonymous cowards who think calling me Bambi is clever."
My real name is Les Slater and I have never called you Bambi.
"I don't give any serious thought to the commenters anymore."
Or to the comments, even if they are your own?
106 - John Bambenek
It should be pretty obvious I'm not talking my comments seriously either.
And the anonymous coward crack was to the other crank who's trolling BC for love.
107 - Les Slater
"It should be pretty obvious I'm not talking my comments seriously either."
I would rather you be honest and say you made a mistake.
If you follow the threads in this post I think you will see the beginings of people starting to think, and be more honest. RedTard's #95 is a good example.
I think the discussion has done good.
John, I'm not out to get you. Peace.
108 - MCH
"Whata wimp."
- Les Slater
Hey, cut the personal shit.
109 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
John, this thread has made some progress away from the original theme in your article, despite your continual denial. RJ, and Redtard, have both acknowledged that the police probably made at least some mistakes, and others have acknowledged that it's a far cry from the torture some people make it out to be.
110 - Les Slater
On RedTard's #95"
You can see the thinking and feel the honesty.
111 - Terrofried
John Bambenek #79
You wrote: “A handcuffed can kick (and he was flailing around when they tried to drag him down the stairwell)”
Do you not realize that the only time we see him flailing around and kicking in the video is when he’s being tasered with electricity?
You loose your credibility when you spin an incident that we've all seen for ourselves on video. You some how see him as fighting the police, when, contrary to your spin, the UCLA Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young openly admits that the student was a "passive resister."
This is about the abuse of power! And you, Bambeneck, seem to me to be a pontentially dangerous man. You have power to write the truth, yet, you've spun for your readers a web of lies, in a poor attempt to justify the unjustifiable.
Shame on the UCLA police! and shame on you!
112 - zingzing
john, you are a politics editor here. you need to:
1) realize your responsibility for at least somewhat fair reporting, and for reporting all of the pertinent facts, especially when posting in the "news" section.
2) stop making comments like, ""I don't give any serious thought to the commenters anymore," and "It should be pretty obvious I'm not talking my comments seriously either," when you should be setting a better example for writers.
3) get a book on comma usage.
4) stop making your bias so obvious. you certainly hate the left and students.
and what kind of class is "electrical injury" anyway?
113 - Nancy
Les #54: first, sorry I'm so late responding. Don't know why you think I'm dangerous; please note I did not advocate 'beating him to a pulp' as you seem to have interpreted me; I said merely that 'had this happened anywhere else in the world' (I had in mind China or just about anywhere else outside the US/Canada or Western Europe)'...he would have been beaten to a pulp.' That's all. Please don't read violent responses into my statements that I don't put there; I'm quite capable of putting my own foot in my own mouth without any help from anybody here.
Having said that, being labelled the 'most dangerous' person on the blogsite is quite an ego-boo. Thank you. Makes me feel like Marlene Dietrich, or something.
BTW, he isn't a 'kid' by anybody's stretch of the imagination. Information shows that he's a grown man with (apparently) a long list of similar episodes involving defiance of authority & troublemaking. Possibly a semiprofessional provocateur? I certainly wouldn't be surprised. In any event, being violently uncooperative with police, even if only verbally, & inciting onlookers to join his own behavior or attack the police, is always a stupid thing to do, and a sure sign of deliberate provocation on his part, IMO.
I work w/quite a few police troopers, all of whom have had taser training, which involved getting tasered yourself before "graduation". All advised me that anybody who gets tasered & doesn't collapse into a puddle of collagen & shaking fat & protein cells is probably on drugs of some kind, or is severely schizophrenic & hallucinatory, therefore considered extremely dangerous & dealt with accordingly.
114 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I am a police volunteer. Because I'm not an actual cop, even though I have the authority to detain or to arrest someone, I rarely detain anybody, and it is not the policy of the unit to make arrests - too damned much paperwork. Remember, I said I am a volunteer. I don't get paid to spend time filling out forms.
Nevertheless, looking at it from the point of view of a fellow who regularly wears a uniform and who carries a carbine and a pistol, attacking a person with tasers once he is handcuffed does seem a bit excessive.
But a salaried cop here would not have discussed a great deal with the student. He would have hit him with immense force, kicked him out of the library, and then charged him with assault and resisting arrest. The attitude of the police here is that you have the right to do as you are told.
And he might very well have been upheld in his action in a court of law.
115 - Les Slater
"...being labelled the 'most dangerous' person on the blogsite is quite an ego-boo. Thank you. Makes me feel like Marlene Dietrich, or something."
You're welcome. You will note that I have never called you or anyone else on the blog, a fascist. I also thought I paid you another compliment, about your views on women's rights.
"please note I did not advocate 'beating him to a pulp'"
Nor did I accuse you of that. The incident under discussion, as bad as it was, in my opinion, was not the real issue I was trying to get at.
I was trying to get at the thought process involved in coming to such conclusions. It was which side of the question that you came down on that was my key to lump you with some others. There were three columns in my consideration. You fit under the one with John, R.J., RedTard, others. It was his fault and got what he deserved.
Another column had pleaseexcusetheinteruption in it. It was his fault but he did not deserve what happened.
I think I was one of the few that empathized at all and tried to understand his perspective. That's what my #33 was an attempt to establish.
My argument was with column one, to point out that there was no basis for coming to the conclusion that he deserved the treatment he got, except, a non thinking emotion. I think I did a reasonable job with that.
You dangerous? I have to be careful to not let my emotions finding myself in agreement with you sometimes. You talking about nuking the whole D.C. area may seem to some a good idea, but that’s dangerous talk. You may ask why you won out for the title over Ruvy for instance. Well, you don’t have to look very hard to see that sign on his back, “Mad Jew, Former JDL Street Fighter, Keep Your Distance”.
116 - Matthew T. Sussman
Remember that last scene in Ferris Bueller where he says "You're still here? It's over!"
117 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"You dangerous? I have to be careful to not let my emotions finding myself in agreement with you sometimes. You talking about nuking the whole D.C. area may seem to some a good idea, but that's dangerous talk. You may ask why you won out for the title over Ruvy for instance. Well, you don't have to look very hard to see that sign on his back, 'Mad Jew, Former JDL Street Fighter, Keep Your Distance'".
You're starting to sound incoherent, Les. Sit down and have a glass of water and try to relax.
118 - zingzing
i got it, ruvy... although you can tell nancy isn't all that serious about bombing d.c... just venting a little. you, on the other hand, really may mean what you say, and you say some pretty violent things.
119 - Nancy
LOL - I got what I wanted when the voters nuked DC for me, in a sense. So, no...99.9999% of my bombast is just venting & hyperbole, and I suppose I should quit that post haste; it's not very adult, but sometimes, dammit, the blood just boils ... especially when discussing the venalities, idiocies, & criminalities of our 'Honorable' congressmaggots & administration.
Gee ... "dangerous" ... Many thanks; that just tickles me pink. Usually I'm not considered dangerous unless I'm cooking. I do make some pretty deadly (awful) dinners, I'm told. Maybe in future I should just threaten to feed people....
120 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Another column had pleaseexcusetheinteruption in it. It was his fault but he did not deserve what happened.
Not exactly. Not only was it his fault for getting tasered, he deserved getting tasered. He was obviously intentionally making a scene. A "semi-professional provocateur" as Nancy said. He was asking to be tasered and he got it.
This, however, does not justify the police. As I said before, the "kid" was testing them and they failed. It's not up to them to vent their fustration and anger by inflicting pain on already apprehended suspects, creating a larger scene, disrupting the library more, when they could easily drag him out like 999/1000 similar situations. He deserved to be punished, but in a civilized, not brutal and animalistic manner. Considering he was asking for a scene and got it, one might say his newly acquired martyrdom is a reward not a punishment. It only reaffirms his prior convictions and makes him more arrogant. The real punishment would have been to drag him off in shame and charge him with something in a court of law.
121 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Or at least revoke his library priveleges FOREVER.
122 - Anonymous
Bambi -
If you can't stand the polis, stay out of the agora.
Kalispera
123 - STM
RedTard quoted and wrote:" ... "As is too often the case, they've taken their little bit of power too far."
That'd be the typical liberal way of looking at it. From my perspective it appears that police do at least a pretty good job of demonstrating restraint given a very difficult job."
Perhaps you should have read the whole post instead of the first two lines before dribbling off at the mouth (keyboard, sorry) like a dickhead, accusing me of being a liberal. I'm not.
I'm way left of that. Anyway, why use a new-fangled taser? America, you're getting f.cking soft ... a good old-fashioned smack in the mouth would have done the trick.
And RedTard, you are indeed a dribbler of the highest order.
124 - John Bambenek [
I'm sorry! I was wrong!
Can't we all just get along?
125 - Les Slater
Hi John,
Glad you're still here.
Les