UCLA student picks a fight and gets Tased. Hilarity does not ensue.
University police officers used a Taser on a student repeatedly during an altercation at the UCLA library at 11:30 pm November 15. There was a video made by a student witness, who captured only the end of the altercation with the student shouting profanities at the police and then screaming in pain when he was tasered.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Christopher Rose
STM: You should be outraged by the behaviour of the police. Police forces worldwide seem to become more bossy and controlling all the time and we shouldn't tolerate that.
27 - STM
Mate, I must say I am very pissed off with them. It is now likely to go a bit further than the Magistrates Court as they did do the wrong thing.
It would be nice too to get some of the money back.
However, he was told to piss off and go home and had he just done so, they wouldn't have got the screaming shits. Testosterone + alcohol + being a dickhead is a fairly standard potent cocktail for an 18-year-old.
He sees the injustice of it, but also the stupidity of it.
Both things are good to take on board.
28 - Remon
"If they say stop, you stop. If they say get down, get down, if they say stand up, stand up."
And when they ask you to bend over, I assume you'll be first in line?
29 - Anonymous
From the Daily Bruin's first report, filed at 3 AM on Wednesday morning:
Let me re-emphasize: he was leaving when the UCPD returned and seized him. That's not picking a fight. It's called leaving. This is what makes your reporting not only partial, but underresearched at best, flat dishonest at worst - but inevitably you draw false conclusions.
The video also shows an officer threatening a witness with tazing. This is assault in itself.
Bambenek, I also "cautioned against to" you writing without an editor. Get one.
30 - Franco
If you are in a collage library and the library officials have had to ask you to leave, then you are responsable for starting a problem. When you refuse to leave and causing an even bigger scene, you have purposely intensified the problem. When library officials are left with no other option then to call campus police for assistance in your removal then you have purposely escalated it to a serious problem and you know this full well all the time you are causing this disruption and enfringing on the rights of others to enjoy the peace of a libarry and study.
When campus police arrive and ask you to leave and you tell them FY and try to elicit other students to join your disruption, this clearly shows that you have no respect law and order or for others and are not rational and you are potentially dangerous to other persons and maybe even yourself. What you have done is challenged and forced the last measure and means of authority no other choice then to act.
Campus police have rights too, they are people just like you and I. The difference between them and us is that they are trained to deal with threading situations and to evaluate the safest means for all involved, including the suspect, to bring an out of control situation under control which they clealy did, swiftly and with out any injury or damage to other persons or property.
This guy has no one to blame for getting tased then himself. I commend the campus police for minimizing additional risks to the suspect, to themselves, and to other students and persons in the library. I also commend them for swiftly ending the disruption, and quenching any others in the mulling crowd thinking of joining in.
We need such police and I support them and the actions that they have taken in this case.
If the ACLU wants to fight for this guys civil rights, then I would ask, what about the civil rights of all those in the library that he so willing violated causing this massive disturbance. Don't law abinding citizens have civil rights too.
The ACLU can kiss my ass.
31 - John Bambenek
Anonymous-
Why do you hate America?
32 - Maureen
I agree that when the police tell you to do something, you do it. To do otherwise is sheer stupidity. But whether this student was leaving or still sitting there, using a taser was overkill and unnecessary, since he wasn't fleeing the scene of a crime he'd committed.
I'm very conservative, but even I can see that regardless of the circumstances presented by both sides, the cops were in the wrong. To pretend that he was a threat to anyone, knowing that two of them could have handcuffed and dragged him out easily, is ridiculous.
Or maybe some of you are the types that would like to see people getting beaten with billy clubs for speeding and not presenting their licenses fast enough, because you're twisted.
33 - Les Slater
It was April 15 some number of years ago. I had not completed my tax filing so needed to file an extension.
I work hours that were somewhat flexible so I took an early lunch so I could be at the IRS office before they took their lunch break or were inundated with long lines. I got there at 10 minutes before noon. There were two people in line. I got in behind them. The window was closed and said ‘out to lunch’. There was no specific statement as to when the window might be open to resume business.
I waited, looking forward to 12:50, figuring that would have been at least an hour. 12:50, then 1:00, window still closed. At about 1:10, first person in line voiced 'Hello, anyone in there?', to which there was no response. This was repeated in a few minutes.
The line had grown quite long at this point and a couple of us were discussing the situation. I advised that someone make a loud rap on the door. It was suggested that I do it. I rapped the door with my knuckles three times in even and firm succession.
Very shortly an angry person opened the window and said 'Who did that?', I responded that it was me. He told me to go to the end of the line. I refused, explaining that this was April 15, this was the main IRS office in the city and they had a responsibility to be reasonably available to the public, which they weren't, and I had acted reasonably in response to the situation. The person told me that was his decision and I had no choice. I asked to speak to his supervisor. He identified himself and stated that he was the one in charge. I said 'With all do respect, you do not seem like the type that the IRS would put in charge of a major field office.' I asked again to speak to his supervisor. He refused. I said I’d be back.
Let me step back a few months. The previous year my taxes were filed on time and a refund was due. The IRS informed me that they would not give me the refund unless I corrected an error in the filing paperwork. After examining the paperwork I found no error on my part but an error of theirs. I insisted they pay the refund.
It was a fight that took several months. I won. During that fight, after it got escalated to Washington, the head of the Boston IRS and I were on friendly terms. He agreed with my take on the dispute and was interested on how it would get resolved. It made it up into the Carter White House and was resolved to my favor. I got the refund without revising any tax forms.
Now fast forward to the situation at the IRS office where I said, 'I'll be back'.
I went down one floor to a pay phone. I had the name and telephone number of the Director of the IRS in the Boston office. I asked if so-and-so was in charge of that regional office. He said he had never heard of him and that one of two other so-and-sos was in charge and said that the higher of the two was likely there.
I walked back in to the IRS office. The man at the window pointed to me, two beefy police officers started walking briskly in my direction, I asked loudly, and clearly, asked to speak to so-and-so. The cops almost tripped over their own feet trying to stop.
I can only speculate what might have happened if I did not have and inside hook in the situation.
34 - keeeleed
Please don't waist time writing...
Do you even know what the police policy for the use of such force is?
If you are trying to get a reaction from readers by posting ignorant and ploarizing comments...Well, you have succeeded.
One thing is for sure, natural selection will take care of people like you, and the rest of us will continue to seek civil rights for all.
-keeleed
35 - John Bambenek
Let's talk about natural selection for a minute, when the police tell me to leave, I leave. I don't respond by going **FUCKING APESHIT** screaming at the top of my lungs, getting in their face saying "Fuck you get your hands off of me".
I'm not the one getting cooked by a Taser, because I'm not the one picking a fight with police and then hiding behind civil rights.
If you want to talk about civil rights, let's also talk about civil responsibilities.
If he was really leaving, he would have been gone already.
36 - Les Slater
"Let's talk about natural selection for a minute,..."
What? The student will sue, should win, and probably will. That puts the student in a better position to survive.
37 - Cheetham
Do not spread your bullshit.
The cops asked him for his ID as he was on his computer. He told them that he didn't have it on him and that he would leave by himself. They then grabbed him by the arm and the start of notorious video ensued.
38 - perfect day
Sometimes cops arrest rapists. So it's ok for cops to rape people sometimes. You reap what you sow. You can't expect law enforcement to behave any differently than criminals, suspected criminals, or people who won't leave the library. That's why they have tasers.
Fine insight, great site.
39 - Les Slater
I have had many years experience with the police. It is not difficult to find pigs amongst them.
The statement that they have the least sympathy for is 'I have a constitutional right to...." Their typical response is that they 'don't give a fuck about constructional rights'.
I don't back off too easy but when they threaten arrest, I do. In the process, I make clear that they are violating democratic rights, not for the benefit of the cops, but others who are witnessing. I'll sometimes come back with a letter from the city attorney explicitly explaining those rights. Then, maybe, the cops that show, back down.
It is important to be able to use the rights that we have. The police are often there to intimidate.
40 - Kim (UCLA)
So, did the students who asked for the officer's identification deserve to also be threatened? I find that hard to believe. Did you even watch the video Mr. Bambenek? The students weren't violent. They didn't join a "resistance". They didn't retaliate. They asked in timid voices if they could get the officer's name and badge number. They were largely scared and intimidated by the abusiveness of the officers. I don't know what happened before the video began and neither do any of you. Regardless of the conduct of Mostafa Tabatabainejad before the video, the other students did absolutely NOTHING to provoke the officers. How then is it okay for the officers to threaten them? They knew that the "law" was abusing its power and so they asked for identification. They asked the men to stop because they were hurting Mostafa. Sir, the students were no "mob". They were not threatening in any way, shape, or form. They were scared students who knew that what was happening was wrong.
When officers threaten peaceful students with violence, they lose all credibility. When an "academic professional" names them a mob and attempts to validate the abusive actions against those students, he too loses credibility.
"On a campus where arrests due to student disruption seem common"
Excuse me? UCLA has 25,000 undergraduate students and 10,000 grad students. I hardly think the arrest of 9 students for passive protest constitutes "common". (By the way, one would think an academic professional would know how to proofread.)
41 - HillBilly aka Just One Man
Any Muslim Jerk-Off that gets out of line should be tasered and dragged behind a pick-up truck ...on second thought why wait till they get out of line!
HillBilly
42 - Jim Treacher
"Let me re-emphasize: he was leaving when the UCPD returned and seized him."
And yet he told the LA Times he dropped to the floor before they tased him. And as you can hear in the YouTube video, he was screaming like Mommy wouldn't let him get a candy bar at the checkout line. Other than that, though, his behavior was exemplary.
43 - Terrofried
btw---UCLA Police's Assistant Chief Jeff Young acknowledged that Tabatabainejad was a "passive resister,"--a far cry from a 'student picking a fight with police' as you claim!
The handcuffed student might have been a jerk, but no matter what he did, he did not deserve repeated jolts of electric torture!
44 - Les Slater
I was born during WWII. When I was growing up I encountered the question many times about how all those people in Germany could have allowed Hitler to come to power.
45 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
What is with you and college kids Bambi? Take it easy alright. I don't give a fuck what the student did or said. There is absolutely no reason to taser an already apprehended, handcuffed suspect who is being held by two police officers. I agree, the student probably was testing the officers and intentionally making a scene. That is absolutely irrelevent when it comes to tasering a suspect. You will note that the student NEVER stood up, despite repeated tasering. The police easily dragged out the already handcuffed student without him standing up. Commanding him to stand up was power tripping on their part. It was absolutely unnecessary; they easily removed him without him standing up. The tasering accomplished NOTHING. Cops throw people out of buildings who are resisting probably DOZENS of times a day. No Tasers required. All the tasering accomplished was to escalate a scene and get more college students involved and upset. The student probably WAS testing the police. And they failed.
46 - Kavalec
Come pick a fight with me. I show you losing.
47 - Anonymous
Bambenek:
Bwahahahaha! I've got it: you're Lynne Cheney in drag. Or an intern for Fox "News".
You need more than an editor, Bambi. You need a little original thinking. This is your best knee-jerk response to criticism, isn't it? Once more:
Try again, Bambi, try again.
48 - Rob Roy
John,
Neither you nor I saw anything before the biginning of that video. You can choose to take the officers word for it, but do you really think 5 tasers is necessary? many stories conflict on this issue but from I have read the student witnesses are saying different things then the police. I think it is clear misuse of power.
49 - handyguy
It's amazing how many commenters on this site [most, apparently, right-wingers] all think it's ok to taser the kid, who was, after all, actually a student, not an intruder. And not just once, five times.
John's disgraceful apologia for this despicable abuse of power reminds me of similar reactions to the Rodney King video. But just as in that case, we don't need to see the beginning of the incident to know that the end of the incident was a terrifying, totally unnecessary, over the top use of force on a man who was already down.
And asking posters, "Why do you hate America?"! Come on, John. You're an associate editor on here, fer cryin out loud. Surely you're capable of better. You should be ashamed. So should Blogcritics.
50 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Yes, odd isnt it that mostly right wingers should come to the defense of police officers who Taser a college kid? Wouldnt have anything to do with the college kids political leanings would it?
51 - The camel trader
Holy Guacamole Batman. Use the tasermaserfazer on the student prick.
52 - Nancy
Franco stated the situation quite nicely, including the obvious conclusions. For whatever reasons, this guy picked a fight & suffered the consequences. The police did what they had to do. This person clearly had issues & deliberately picked a fight. Additionally, he had no right to be there after being asked to leave by the rightful authorities. Being tasered was an easy get-off; had this happened anywhere else, he would have been beaten to a pulp.
53 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Did you watch the video Nancy? They applied the Taser not because he wouldnt leave or was resisting, but because he wouldnt stand up upon command. The kid never stood up, despite the Tasering. He was already handcuffed. They dragged him out. They could have accomplished all this WITHOUT the use of a Taser and WITHOUT making a disruptive scene in the library. The Taser served NO useful purpose. It accomplished NOTHING except attracting a large crowd. Generally, the accepted punishment for causing civil disturbances is a fine or jail time, NOT physical pain. The application of physical pain to a handcuffed suspect being HELD UP by two officers serves NO USEFUL PURPOSE. The two officers could have easily dragged him out, in disgrace. Instead they chose to play along with his game.
54 - Les Slater
Nancy #52
I'm sure not everyone got the intended message of my #44.
Nancy was foremost on my mind when I wrote it. What side would she come down on? Had I judged her too harshly in the past?
Nancy seems to be an intelligent person. Sometimes I think she has the sharpest and most progressive position. A recent statement about women controlling their own bodies comes to mind.
I have also singled Nancy out as the type that I consider the most prone to be attracted to a fascist solution. She sometimes seems to flip into an arch-reactionary, or even an arch-radical, with a pension to express her opinion in a most violent way. Sort of a Dr. Jekyll, Ms. Hyde.
Of all the people on this board, I believe that she has the potential to be the most dangerous.
The general observation I have made in following this thread is that when confronted with some situations, some ideas, some people genuinely lose their ability to think rationally.
55 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Nancy, no matter how despicable the college student is, it doesn't excuse what the police did. I agree! The college student WAS picking a fight. He probably is very idealistic, thought he was being a martyr, etc etc etc... He even deserved to be punished SEVERELY, by the school and/or by the police. However, the use of a Taser is completely out of place. It accomplished nothing. The application of physical pain in a public place (a LIBRARY of all places) to an already detained suspect is completely inapropriate, unwarranted, unnecessary and ILLEGAL. Please..watch the video. The Taser did not change the situation AT ALL, except to attract outraged students. Before, and after the Taser, the student was held handcuffed by two police officers. He was EVENTUALLY dragged off, and the Taser accomplished NOTHING.
56 - larry
reminds me of the old song i fought the law and the law won. they are just doing their job.
57 - S.T.M
Here's the truth: should the police have tasered this kid? As is too often the case, they've taken their little bit of power too far, so in all honesty, the answer is no.
Should he have buggered off as soon as they told him? Considering what happened, the answer to that is yes. I bet he leaves quickly next time.
So how on Earth does this become discussion about who's right wing and who's not?
It's really an example of testosterone-driven stupidity, a young man's bloodymindedness - and an abuse of power.
58 - gazelle
Tasering is less messy than abu-ghraib or is it?. ucla. shame.
best
59 - RedTard
"As is too often the case, they've taken their little bit of power too far"
That'd be the typical liberal way of looking at it. From my perspective it appears that police do at least a pretty good job of demonstrating restraint given a very difficult job.
The idiot was making a scene and inciting others to do the same. It's simply human nature for the officers to want to get out of there as quickly as possible. They believed use of the taser might expedite the process (which is allowed by the manual) and it didn't.
I'm glad I don't ever have to do their thankless job. As I was typing this a quick note in the local news came across about a policeman recovering after he was hit in the back of the head with a bottle. He received much more damage and pain than this petty college student but there will be no outrage at what happened to him. That's part of the job I guess and reason they draw the big $30K salary.
60 - RedTard
It's kinda nice how liberals always come out in force to defend any perceived 'victim'. I just wish you guys were better at seperating true victims from people who are only victims of their own idiocy.
Also, when police get assaulted there's no big jury award awaiting them. The same cannot be said of individuals such as this student. Another benefit of the thankless job.
61 - Bernard
The police were never threatened by this individual. He also was not larger or any way seemingly an imposing threat to overpower the police. Tasers are issued to law enforcement to allow to them to defend themselves; they are not issued for intended use when police are too lazy to carry the suspect out or to vent their frustrations on an uncooperative individual. This event was a flagrant example of misconduct on the part of a few overworked police officers.
I also find it funny that the author of the blog states that UCLA is a place where student disruption is common yet doesnt back up his assertion with fact (Instead he posts a link to an article about students from Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz disrupting a meeting held at UCLA). Just the kind of spin from a right-wing pundit who will try to twist anything in a futile hope to elicit a point which his fellow right-wingers will vehemently defend without giving it a critical eye.
62 - RedTard
"his fellow right-wingers will vehemently defend without giving it a critical eye."
And your fellow left wingers will conveniently ignore any of the actions of your precious 'victim'. He wanted a confrontation and he got it. Big deal.
63 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
We're not ignoring it Redtard. Read the comments. Almost everyone has acknowledged the young man was totally out of line, deliberately provoking the police. The police had him handcuffed and were holding him on his knees. They should have dragged him out like they do 99 / 100 similar scenarios. Instead they used a taser to try and get him to stand up. He never stood up. The taser accomplished nothing - except to attract outraged college students. After repeated tasering they eventually dragged him out - what they should have done from the very beginning.
64 - Dubya Bush
"I was born during WWII. When I was growing up I encountered the question many times about how all those people in Germany could have allowed Hitler to come to power."
Yeah, because tasering and arresting some asshole in a library is just a hop, skip, and jump away from genocidal mass murder at death camps...
65 - Dubya Bush
"do you really think 5 tasers is necessary?"
Not really; I think ten would have been better. Preferably in the eyes.
66 - Dubya Bush
"It's amazing how many commenters on this site [most, apparently, right-wingers] all think it's ok to taser the kid"
A "kid" who was 23...
"who was, after all, actually a student, not an intruder."
Of course, the police had no way of knowing that since he refused to show ID or leave the library...
67 - Dubya Bush
"when confronted with some situations, some ideas, some people genuinely lose their ability to think rationally."
Clearly ... but does every single one of your posts have to be about YOU ???
68 - Les Slater
"...arresting some asshole in a library is just a hop, skip, and jump..."
I have noticed in the threads on this blog, and especially to this post, that there seems to be irrational responses to what seems to be an ingrained hot button in some bloggers.
I read the link to the Daily Bruin and the articles in the LA Times.
It is OBVIOUSLY CLEAR that the treatment that the student got was unjustified. It was cop brutality, plain and simple.
It is not entirely clear to me after reading carefully all the accounts I could find, is what transpired leading up to the brutality by the cops.
I can, however, empathize with the student's resistance to what he believed to be harassment due to appearing to be from a certain region of the world.
I posted my #33 to present a situation that could have led to a similar result. What if it did? Well, the clerk would have described me as belligerent, the police would have said I was trespassing, and of course, the obligatory, 'resisting arrest'.
It's not a question of such tactics leading to a fascist state. It is a question of what process, or lack of, was used to determine whether to accept the police version.
The result of police brutality is often the death of the victim.
How we evaluate these cases has some bearing on how much the police will get away with it. As they get away with it, the population becomes desensitized and more can be gotten away with.
We are not at a stage where mass recruitment to fascist bands is likely, however, I do see signs of characteristics of certain thinking, or rather, the inability to think, that will be attracted to a fascist movement.
69 - Jack
For those who questioned the victim's "defiance" in standing up after being tasered, the taser is designed to incapacitate the target.
From http://www.alternet.org/rights/44455/:
"According to Taser's promotional materials, its stun guns are designed to "temporarily override the nervous system [and take] over muscular control." People who have experienced the effect of a Taser typically liken it to a debilitating, full-body seizure, complete with mental disorientation and loss of control over bodily functions."
70 - Jerry
Les #68
"The result of police brutality is often the death of the victim".
What is your source to back up this assertion?
I haven't researched this topic, but I'd bet for all the times that police screw up, there is 100 times that they have handled a potentially dangerous situation with gracefulness.
How many times have these officers been spit on, striked, kicked or even shot at in LA. This is no Rodney King case. Cut them a little slack
71 - RJ Elliott
"The result of police brutality is often the death of the victim."
No, that is not "often" the result at all. Not even close.
And of course, the use of tasers was introduced at police departments across the country for the express purpose of further reducing the likelihood of serious injury or death to a resisiting arrestee.
This kid will suffer no permanent injury as a result of being tased while resisting arrest. Maybe the police should have clubbed him with batons instead? Or used pepper spray in an enclosed environment? Or just shot the bastard?
72 - Les Slater
Not often? Too often!
From first paragraph of Human Rights Watch Overview on Police brutality.
"Police abuse remains one of the most serious and divisive human rights violations in the United States. The excessive use of force by police officers, including unjustified shootings, severe beatings, fatal chokings, and rough treatment, persists because overwhelming barriers to accountability make it possible for officers who commit human rights violations to escape due punishment and often to repeat their offenses. Police or public officials greet each new report of brutality with denials or explain that the act was an aberration, while the administrative and criminal systems that should deter these abuses by holding officers accountable instead virtually guarantee them impunity."
73 - RJ Elliott
Quoting "Human Rights Watch" to support your position is pretty much ceding the argument, isn't it?
74 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Look people I know you all hate the "victim," and I agree, but please don't lose sight of the fact that the using an incapacitating pain inducing device to get some one to stand up makes no sense. The two officers were already holding him on his knees. They could have easily dragged him out. After several taserings with no effect, they did so. I understand you don't like the victim and he probably deserves a good spanking, but please, don't let this excuse the actions of the police. The police don't hand out spankings. The law does.
75 - RJ Elliott
I will agree that tasering a man and then immediately demanding that he "stand up" is somewhat ridiculous...
I do not know what level their tasers were set on, but it is possible that he was physically unable to stand up on his own...
Of course, if he was a normal human being, instead of a whiny, melodramatic little bitch, he would have simply said that he was unable to stand due to the tasering, and the officers would then have dragged/carried him out, and that would have been the end of it...
I guess the punk was trolling for media attention/litigation money/leftist martyrdom, so he made things as difficult as possible for the police officers on the scene...officers who probably make about $35,000/year while performing one of the most dangerous jobs in the country...