La Raza indoctrination.
This year, Arizona passed HB 2281, a law which bans ethnic studies that promote the radical agenda of groups like La Raza, known for revising history to suit their anti-American, anti-caucasian ideology. The radical reconquista crowd isn't pleased.…
Article comments
126 - Irene Athena
Lemmie, your citations don’t describe two different versions; they describe two different events in the sequence of events I have put in prose-form below. (It is the same scenario I provided in #114, but I’ve added responses to your questions in bold.) The only thing you have established is that Jose Guerena was still alive and breathing the second time Vanessa saw her wounded husband, when she was being dragged out the door by SWAT, at least five minutes after she placed the call to 911.
SWAT arrives. Vanessa sees them point a gun at her through the window. She wakes her husband, then hides in closet with the toddler. Police break into home, shoot Jose, go out the door and reassemble outside, now with “a barricaded subject situation” to justify preventing medical help from going in. Around this time, the decision is made to commence the SWAT-is-here-light-and-siren show. Vanessa emerges from the closet (telling her child to remain there), and sees her husband in a pool of blood, making choking sounds.She goes back to the closet (near or in the kitchen I’d suspect, yes) where her child is to make sure he doesn’t come out and see his dad like that. She calls 911 and is on the phone for five minutes when SWAT reenters house, and drags Vanessa outside while the 911 call is in progress. This is when the operators lose contact with her. As SWAT is dragging her out the door (she resists because they’ve left the child in the closet), Vanessa sees that her husband is still alive, though gasping for air. She pleads with the men to call 911 back to get help, but they refuse. (The toddler is left inside; he comes out of the closet on his own after a long time and sees his dad.)
A hole in your “two different versions” theory is that it doesn’t account for time alone for Vanessa to call 911, unless she made if from the closet, before she’d seen her dead husband, or the open door, or knew that the cops were outside instead of inside. Isn’t the “two different points in time” scenario I’ve described (a) consistent with your citations, the 911 call, and the video, and (b) much more likely than your “she-made-up-a-bunch-of-stuff-and-then-called-911-without-ever-leaving-the-closet-to-see-if-the-stuff-she-was-telling-911-was-true” scenario?
127 - Irene Athena
I'm sorry for turning the page on your Motorhead video, Dr. D., but if Lemmie goes back a page and clicks on the link, it will open a new window and he can listen to it while he reads comment 126.
128 - zingzing
"And leader of quite probably the loudest band on the planet (although AC/DC give them a run for their money on that score)."
hardly. my bloody valentine wins on that count. i saw them a few years ago and the SOUND off this section of this song, which is called "you made me realize," but this bit, "the holocaust," they call it, stretches for a good 15 minutes... i heard bombs going off and fighter jets flying by, and the hair on the girl in front of me was blowing in my face and my tears were streaking into my ears, which were thankfully plugged with the ear plugs they handed out at the door (not that i put them in before this started happening). this shit reaches just below the legal decibel limit. (just below the pain threshold.)
it's quite ridiculous. all off a "d" chord, i hear. anyway, any claim to "loudest" must go through mbv first. and any claim for "best live show i've ever seen" must go through this as well. i cried a good six or seven times.
if i could have a groundhog day, it would be that day. it was an "i love new york" day, mixed with a "i'm in love with a girl" day, mixed with "i'm going to see a band i've fantasized about seeing since i was 16, and they didn't disappoint, in fact, they blew my fucking mind" day.
129 - Dr Dreadful
Well, actually, I'd always heard that The Who were the record holders as far as an actual measured concert went (126 decibels, measured the length of a soccer field away from the stage). But yeah, in that clip MBV do seem to be loud to the extent that you can't actually distinguish anything except the wall of noise.
I can tell you, though, that when I saw AC/DC my ears were ringing for two weeks afterwards. With earplugs.
130 - Irene Athena
This one's for you, Jose Guerena. RIP.
131 - Lemmie
Doc, I am not THAT Lemmy. :D
132 - Clavos
zing,
A while ago you posted that you like metal. Listen to these guys and tell me what you think?
I don't know squat about metal.
133 - Lemmie
126# Irene, at what point in the video interview does Mrs. Guerena state that she "went back to the closet"? You don't have to post the link, just give me the time point where she says "I went back to the closet to check on the child [Joel] because I didn't want him to see his father like that" (paraphrased)
According to Mrs. Guerena, Joel said: "Mommy, I was yelling at you and you didn't come. So I came out and saw my daddy on the floor (para)."--KGUN, Raw Video, 6:17-6:23
134 - zingzing
doc, unless the who broke the law (and thus made everyone's eardrums shatter), there's no way they beat my bloody valentine. but go check out some of mbv's other tunes. they're not all wall of noise. that bit IS a wall of noise, but knowingly so. "loveless" is one of the most beautiful albums ever made.
135 - zingzing
clavos, i do like metal, but like every fringe, i demand something truly transcendent out of it. as pompous as that may sound, i don't think "those guys" make it. too many signifiers, not enough doing something with them. metal is a great live format. over all the ugly, there's this beautiful harmonic thing happening, and that's where i get on board. black metal is the shit, but it's hard to reproduce in the studio.
136 - zingzing
doc: "126 decibels"
mbv hit 128.9 dB reportedly on one night, if you want to throw out numbers. their soundsytems are tested for much higher, and i tell you they got quite painful. but what you hear on that video versus what you hear in person is quite different. i was a good 10 or 15 rows back and my shirt was rippling from the force of the sound. i've never experienced anything like it.
go listen to loveless if you like guitar rock. you won't believe what a guitar can do. (and no overdubs, the main guy says. i don't know if i believe him.)
137 - Jordan Richardson
In terms of sheer insistent volume, I haven't been able to beat Sunn O))). They routinely drop 120-125 decibels of pure drone sickness.
KISS apparently dropped 130 dB in Ottawa in July of 2009. Ouch.
138 - Cindy
Lemmie does not get it. Lemmie is inventing scenarios out of his own imagination. There is no conflict. Whether it happened exactly as Irene suggested or not. You are still imagining a conflict with statements that do not contain one.
I was once at the mercy of a Lemmie-style thinker. A refrigerator at our company which contained some flammable chemicals caught fire--really it just started smoking. The "investigator", who had a bunch of CSI stickers all over his kit, claimed we must have set the fire as there was a dent in the floor in the shape of a circle where we must have put some explosive chemical to set off the hoped for fire. This guy was serious and increasingly hostile based on his belief and his position that we were criminally responsible arsonists.
Long story short--our own insurance company sent a competent investigator, who cleared us. And we discovered when the soot was cleaned that the dent which was "proof" of arson was actually old and painted over.
139 - Cindy
BTW Lemmie,
Since you assign a lack of credibility based on what you perceive to be a change in a person's story, what do you make of the Pima County Sheriff's Dept, which factually changed its stories multiple times?
Do you find they lack credibility because of those changes?
140 - Irene Athena
Lemmie, you are asking the kinds of questions a lawyer would ask in a cross-examination. A truthful person on the stand should be able to "fill in the blanks" to the satisfaction of the jury and judge.
None of the questions you have asked so far couldn't be answered in a way consistent with the stories presented. Each time I've answered, you've responded, not with an acknowledgment that it indeed, might have happened that way (CLAVOS DID THIS I SEE--THANKS FOR READING CLAVOS, AND YOU'RE WELCOME), but instead, you've responded with more cross-examination questions.
The thing is, your questions are getting weaker and weaker. They are questions that a person, after watching the video interview ONE time, would be able to answer without having to make the effort to connect any dots at all.
So, I won't be answering any more questions, Lemmie, although I suspect you'll post 8-10 more of them while I'll be going about my Sunday afternoon doing other things.
141 - Clavos
zing, indulge me for a bit more, please? As I said, I'm totally ignorant of the genre, and don't really like it, so I'm also ignorant of the criteria, and by extension, the language.
What are "signifiers?"
142 - Lemmie
140# Irene, did you watch the full version of Micheal Storie's interview? According to him, evidence suggests that Mrs. Guerena made not one, but two phone calls--one to 911; the second to a person in the other house that was raided.
138# "Lemmie does not get it."
Cindy, I do "get it". Irene is suggesting that Mrs. Guerena went to the closet twice and that this explains the apparent conflict in her stories. All I am asking for here is that Irene provide credible evidence to back up this assumption.
Everyone else: Sabbath, Maiden, Dio, Judas Priest, Accept, KISS!, etc, etc, etc. YEEEEE OWWWWW!
143 - Irene Athena
Cindy I didn't want to cut out without saying, Hi. It's a beautiful day outside. There really are creeps in law enforcement, and they continue to get away with abusing the people they are supposed to protect.
Keep on pressing for the truth. See ya!
144 - zingzing
clavos: "What are "signifiers?""
given the construction of your question and the fact that firefox seems to think "signifiers" is not a word, i wondered if i had simply made the word up. weird what the brain does to you at times.
anyway, metal does have a big range, but it necessarily depends upon some cliched elements, like the growled vocals, the ultrafast rhythmic guitar strumming, and bpms that hover around 200. (there are more of these cliched elements, and bands don't have to employ them all, or any of them really, but like any other genre, metal has its stylistic tropes.)
i like metal when bands play with those elements, but do something extraordinary with them. napalm death took the bpm thing to its logical conclusion, with the drumbeats sounding like an incomprehensible blur, that, if taken as 4/4, probably were around 400 bpm. liturgy likes to play with the guitar harmonics, which when you're playing at very high speed, can take on a whole new roll in the sound spectrum, much like it does in classical minimalism. mick barr makes guitar wankery with a purpose... he flashes some amazing technique, but does to make a larger point about showing off.
145 - zingzing
"According to him, evidence suggests that Mrs. Guerena made not one, but two phone calls--one to 911; the second to a person in the other house that was raided."
hrm. curious. i wonder if irene can answer why she did that... after all, she watched "the video interview ONE time," so she should have all the answers by now. maybe she was innocently calling a neighbor (seems kinda foolish and useless to do so, but whatever), or maybe there really is something that connects the raided houses together. it's all just speculation at this point.
146 - Clavos
zing,
Thanks! I think I understand (at least a little bit) more about metal now.
Full disclosure: two of the four youngsters in that band (the vocalist [growler?] and the lead guitarist) are soon to become my step sons, so I'm trying to learn what I can, because the boys' lives are centered on the band and its music.
Anecdote which might amuse you: I took my fiancee and two of her three boys to the Bahamas on the boat last summer. Before we left, the guitar player asked if he could bring his guitar with him, to which I replied, "only without the amp." So the kid went out to a pawn shop and found a decent acoustic guitar for a price he could afford and brought that guitar instead. One afternoon he was playing it, and the melody he was playing really sounded very cool and mellow to me, so I asked him what he was playing. Turned out it was one of their songs, at which point I realized that, strip away all noise and growling, there actually is some pretty nice music in there sometimes.
Just sayin'
147 - zingzing
heh. i thought there was something behind your rather unnatural curiosity. the band certainly has instrumental talent and maybe they have other songs that would appeal more to my rather out-there taste in metal. metal is a very insular world in a lot of ways. it has a strange relationship to tradition. those that are self-described "metalheads" clearly love that tradition, and they get something out of it that i don't.
case in point: in of my favorite black metal bands got booed off stage, not for their music, but because they showed up wearing jeans and t-shirts instead of trench coats and corpse paint. it's a strange little world.
brian (aka big guppy) would be the one around here to ask about metal. he's got his own taste in it, which i would say is a little more open to the parts of metal music that i don't particularly care for.
that said, you should check out the adult swim show "metalocalypse" for a funny primer on metal's more cliched cliches. and the documentary film "until the light takes us" if you want to scare the shit out of yourself.
then go check out some xasthur (the earlier, the better, i say) and orthrelm's "OV," which i think is one of the best out-there metal albums ever. jesu is one of the most beautiful metal-ish bands out there, but he does as much as he can to annoy metalheads. i could go on. metal's so awesome.
148 - troll
congratulations Clavos
149 - Clavos
Gracias, zing. My first wife (who, as you may recall, died two years ago) and I never had kids (wanted to, but couldn't), so at this stage of my life, it's a little intimidating on that score. Fortunately, they're good kids.
150 - Irene Athena
All the best, Clavos :)
151 - zingzing
i thought about that, clavos... i just didn't realize it was two years ago already. time does fly by. well, good to hear that you're back on your romantic relationship feet and have found new happiness. but yeah, i'd bet that the prospect of kids would be a bit daunting. "you're never ready," they say. best of luck on that front. do some metal namedropping if you familiarize yourself with it a bit more. mutual appreciation of music is the bedrock of many of my relationships. even my mother and i, after a bit of a rough patch, managed to repair and strengthen our relationship through music.
my brother (well, his wife,) had a kid 3 days ago. first time unclehood for me. the kid's in the icu at the moment... was having some trouble breathing this morning and turned gray. they've got him stabilized at this point, and have ruled out 2 of the worst possible reasons (heart defect, infection), and are pretty sure it's just apnea, which is common in premature births (he as born at 36 weeks), and sure clear up within a few weeks time. still, it's all a bit hairy now.
152 - Clavos
Congratulations on becoming an uncle ("unclehood" I like that), that I've been for more than thirty years; it's pretty cool: you get all the good with little of the bad. Enjoy.
Small world department: My fiancee is a peds nurse with 25 years clinical experience in NICUs. Oddly, we were talking about apnea in preemies just the other day (boy, am I learning a BUNCH of new stuff!). For the past several years she's been teaching nursing and isn't doing clinical work anymore.
Thanks for the advice on familiarizing myself with the music, it's good advice and I'll do it.
153 - zingzing
i will enjoy it. i had a crazy uncle who used to take my brother and i "almigator hunting" in the swampy bay next to his lake cabin up in minnesota. i plan on being the crazy uncle, because having a crazy uncle is pretty damned necessary, i say.
yeah, from the symptoms to the timing of the onset of those symptoms, apnea of prematurity seems to be the correct diagnosis. luckily, it takes care of itself and causes no longterm effects. but fuck if a limp, grey 2-day-old isn't a terrifying sight. they should have warned him this was a possibility, although i guess that would have made him paranoid (luckily, his wife is pretty zonked out on percocets still, so she's not as overly excitable as, say, my mother, who is driving me bonkers because she's putting on a brave face for my brother, which i guess is necessary... but i have to be the sounding board for all the rest of it).
here's a song by liturgy, who is one of my favorite newer metal groups. they are pretty divisive within the metal community. some call them "hipster metal." while it does contain the rather annoyingly cliched "metal vocals," it also shows a band who is searching for beauty, and while no video sound recording equipment can quite capture the harmonics floating above the sound, the chunky riffage and the higher elements of the guitar sound can be heard, which is about as you're going to get. (unfortunately, not even their studio albums are able to properly replicate their live sound, which comes across as the metal equivalent of the music of the spheres.)
154 - Irene Athena
For the record--actually it's already in the record, comment #116, first paragraph--
Oh never mind.
155 - Cindy
Congrats to Step-dad Clav and uncle zing. Hiya to Irene :-) and a cutie just for troll.
156 - Lemmie
146# "Full disclosure: two of the four youngsters in that band (the vocalist [growler?] and the lead guitarist) are soon to become my step sons, so I'm trying to learn what I can, because the boys' lives are centered on the band and its music."
Clavos, dude, congratulations on becoming a parent. It is a great feeling, but buckle up and get ready for a rocket ride.
Your sons will definitely familiarize you to this "new" kind of music. Oh, yeah. I'm glad mine takes more interest in going to the range and putting a few rounds through the Mosin. I do not know if I could take the noise both there AND at home. :)
RIP, Ronnie James Dio (I did not cry when he passed, but I sure felt like it)
157 - lac denis
No one sees a problem with this? We can break responsibility into layers. One guy has the intelligence. One guy gets the court order. One guy gives the police order. One guy drives over. Another few guys make entry. One guy starts firing. Everyone else starts firing. One guy dies. Now, who is held responsible for a death. If I were to accidentally kill someone I would wind up in prison and lose my job, family, home, and everything I have worked for my entire life. With this system it creates spreading blame and pointing fingers which leads to a slap on the wrist and maybe the loss of a job. The only punishment is monetary. This is unacceptable. Each individual needs to be held individually responsible as if they were wholly responsible. This will prevent hasty warrants like this one.
158 - Lemmie
"We can break responsibility into layers. One guy has the intelligence. One guy gets the court order. One guy gives the police order. One guy drives over. Another few guys make entry. One guy starts firing. Everyone else starts firing. One guy dies. Now, who is held responsible for a death."
A problem with this analysis is that one person is left out--the individual who broke the law and started the ball rolling. I would say that this person is probably the responsible party.
159 - PR
LaRaza IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT WANTS TO OVERTHROW THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. ALL SUPPORTERS OF LaRaza SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED AS TERRORISTS.
160 - April
Great article. Also note -- blacks are still selling blacks into slavery! Check out: American Anti-Slavery Group based in Boston MA. my husband used to be in advertising and did pro bono work for them. I was shocked to learn that CURRENTLY many blacks in Africa are forced into slavery: sexual, work slaves, etc. AND, nobody talks about it, but it's mostly the BLACK MUSLIMS WHO ARE DOING IT!!!! This is where political correctness has brought us -- too many are afraid to speak the truth for fear of being labeled racist. Who cares?!? These people need our help...check out the website.
161 - Irene Athena
I owe SFC MAC an apology for assuming that she was just another anti-Latina, anti-Vanessa voice from Tucson in the wake of Jose's death. Seeing that I cared enough about what was happening to Vanessa, I should have written my own article, or at least introduced the other news from Tucson in a more gracious manner. Instead, I behaved like a misguided SWAT team myself.