Time to end the London bomb hysteria - Comments Page 2

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• 26 - RJ

  Jul 30, 2005 at 7:27 pm

  So...
  
  Is it somehow a bad thing to want to keep your own casualties down?
  
  Is it somehow a bad thing to want to create stability, and then withdraw?

• 27 - Natalie Bennett

  Jul 30, 2005 at 7:39 pm

  No, neither of these are bad things. Just don't try to claim, as you did, that the predominate aim is to stop Iraqi casualties.

• 28 - RJ

  Jul 30, 2005 at 7:45 pm

  "Just don't try to claim, as you did, that the predominate aim is to stop Iraqi casualties."
  
  When did I claim that? I don't believe I ever did.
  
  Sure, protecting innocent Iraqis from terrorists is an important goal of the Coalition. But the main goals are killing the terrorists, advancing democratic reforms, creating a reliable and well-trained Iraqi military that is capable of defending itself, and limiting Coalition casualties.
  
  And then we get to leave.

• 29 - Natalie Bennett

  Jul 30, 2005 at 7:58 pm

  The claim is made in comment 21.

• 30 - Dave Nalle

  Jul 30, 2005 at 8:02 pm

  RJ didn't make comment #21.
  
  Dave

• 31 - Natalie Bennett

  Jul 30, 2005 at 8:15 pm

  I was taking the pro-hysteria, anti-civil rights group as one in their claims.

• 32 - Dave Nalle

  Jul 30, 2005 at 8:23 pm

  There is such a group? I'm not sure that RJ's comments put him in it. Certainly not on this thread.
  
  Dave

• 33 - Marc

  Jul 30, 2005 at 8:33 pm

  Natalie: "Flood the streets of London with armed police - more innocent people will get shot,"
  
  An obvious referance to the "poor Brazilian."
  
  Chances are very good that if a person wouldn't leap over a ticket turnstile and disregard the calls of police to stop when ordered a person wouldn't have had a few 9mm slugs pumped into his or her dimwitted brain.
  
  And far from "innocent" as we now know. He was in England on an expired visa which probably had a lot to do with his desire to elude police.
  
  As I said in another thread he didn't deserve what he got, but he got what he asked for.
  
  Oh well...!

• 34 - -E

  Jul 30, 2005 at 8:36 pm

  A dear friend of my family was injured in one of the underground bombings. Her face will show the scars for the rest of her life. Another good friend of mine pretty much works above one of the stops.
  
  Does that make me think the police should shoot to kill anyone they suspect might be a suspect worth considering? No. Look what happens when you do that. Does that make me immediately point the finger to anyone? No.
  
  But it doesn't make me think we should ignore it or discredit it either. When people do things to intentionally cause harm to others- no matter how large or small the scale of damage- it is a big deal and should be dealt with. But each situation calls for different methods of handling.

• 35 - Dave Nalle

  Jul 30, 2005 at 8:38 pm

  I say we let the IRA keep their guns and bombs, give northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland, and send the unemployed IRA members over to Iraq to 'negotiate' with the terrorists.
  
  Dave

• 36 - RKC

  Jul 30, 2005 at 8:51 pm

  RE: Comment 34
  
  "When people do things to intentionally cause harm to others- no matter how large or small the scale of damage- it is a big deal and should be dealt with."
  
  That is exactly what the other side is saying about us.
  
  If you don't already know, read the history of the Middle East since the end of WWII and you know exactly what this means.
  
  

• 37 - Aaman

  Jul 31, 2005 at 12:24 am

  An interesting related piece is in the Times of London,

  We are still here. We still live, work and play. We can vote. We can travel where we want, meet whom we choose, say what we like. We still enjoy due process of law. The only absurdity is that in the eighth year of the government of Tony Blair we need to remark on these facts.
  
  I do so not because some fanatics have bombed London. We have, most of us, been there before. I do so because in the three weeks since the attacks began a howling mob has clambered aboard the terrorists’ bandwagon and claimed right of passage. They are taking the opportunity to beat their political pectorals, roar abuse at all and sundry and cloak prejudice in the dogma of necessity. Whatever their motives, the objective is the same as that of the terrorist. It is to multiply fear, restrict liberty and sow seeds of hatred.

• 38 - Natalie Bennett

  Jul 31, 2005 at 4:26 am

  Marc - this is a good example of how misinformation is spread. His family has asked the police to release the CCTV footage because it apparently shows him using a ticket to get through the barrier like everyone else; and the so-called "heavy" jacket was apparently a denim "jeans" type worn by millions every day.
  
  The police were apparently in plain clothes, and it is quite possible the poor bloke thought throughout the incident that he was fleeing armed robbers.
  
  We should really wait until the full inquiry, but if you want to draw conclusions now, at least rely only on known information.

• 39 - Natalie Bennett

  Jul 31, 2005 at 4:28 am

  Thanks Aaman. That's an excellent piece that points particularly to one element I've been saying about not destroying the rule of law.

• 40 - Marc

  Jul 31, 2005 at 10:00 pm

  Natalie: "The police were apparently in plain clothes, and it is quite possible the poor bloke thought throughout the incident that he was fleeing armed robbers."
  
  Question, if the tape is unreleased how does the family know that the now dead illegal immigrant used a ticket and walked through the turnstile? It's possible but as yet I haven't seen any witness acounts of him walking through as any normal commuter would be.
  
  Armed rodders in England? Sorry girlfriend, in a country where even the police don't carry weapons that quite simply makes zero sense. And even if it did it was broad daylight with hundreds of people around. Why run? Start screaming for help.

• 41 - Sean

  Jul 31, 2005 at 10:58 pm

  On a real basic level, the difference between the deaths from the bombings and those from traffic accidents is that the deaths from bombings were intentional (and would have been far greater had the bombers had more explosives, been more competent, or been on more crowded trains) while the deaths from traffic accidents are, what is the word I am looking for, oh yeah, accidental.

• 42 - valery dawe

  Aug 01, 2005 at 3:06 am

  >>I say we let the IRA keep their guns and bombs, give northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland, and send the unemployed IRA members over to Iraq to 'negotiate' with the terrorists.<<
  
  Apparently Dave Nalle believes the Pentagon is located in downtown Baghdad.
  

• 43 - Bollock

  Jun 15, 2006 at 4:03 am

  I can't believe some of the comments above by RJ and Dave Nalle. America has a population of 290 million - Iraq has a population almost 12 times less.
  
  The fact is that violence figures for Iraq are far worse than the US and we haven't even got traffic accident figures for Iraq anyway, so why are people not comparing like with like here?
  
  I believe some 2,000 US troops have been killed violently in a population of 100,000 to 150,000 over a three year period - that's a pretty remarkable death rate.