The military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is doomed. The only question is when it will fall.
Last Thursday, the AP reported the story of Sgt. Robert Stout, a decorated soldier from the 9th Engineer Battalion fighting in Iraq. The openly gay Stout wants a chance to continue to serve his country without having to lie about who he is. The military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, which forbids openly gay soldiers from serving, will likely result in Stout's discharge from the Army.…
Article comments
26 - bhw
lol!
27 - MCH
Re comment #12;
"OK, well count Steve out of the army. Next?"
- Richard Porter
Richard, I'm curious - what branch of the military did you serve in?
28 - MCH
I'll take it that by ignoring the question, Richard, that the answer is "none."
Great, just what BC needs...another so-called military expert who's never served...
29 - SFC SKI
Amongst my colleagues, there are some who give less than a damn about sexual orientation, and others who swear they'd resign if gays were allowed to serve openly. Either way, I am convinced the ban is going to be lifted within the next 5 years.
30 - Theo
Ah, dude.
It wasn't the military's policy.
The military is running out of cannon fodder, should be lifted any day now.
Gotta an HIV issue on the battlefield which is going to be a hard sell. Blood flies everywhere. But maybe a cure will show up and it won't be an issue.
31 - SFC SKI
I don't know where you've been, shitbird, we don't have cannon fodder anymore. Educate yourself or fuck off.
32 - Theo
Ski,
I've been everywhere you've been bro' (if you're really are who you say you are). I'll say what the fuck I want to, when I want to, and if being fucking blunt rattles a few fucking cages, so be it.
I know what the fuck is going on in a theator of operations. Only mine was run from the fucking white house under the auspices of stopping communism.
33 - SFC SKI
I'd don't want to get in a pissing contest, Theo, so I'll apologize, but how anyone can call the limited number of personnle in today's military "cannon fodder" is beyond me.
I get really pissed off when I hear anyone refer to soldiers as stupid or expendable.
34 - Theo
Ski,
It was a metephor, to emphasize that once the retension rates start plummenting, once the volunteers stop coming into the recruiting centers...
Yeah, it was a stupid analogy... my apologies.... let me rephrase in a PC kind of way...
The point is....
When the numbers are down (in spite of, or because of the undesireable working conditions in Iraq). Those of you, good readers of both genders, and perhaps all sexual orientations, will be subject to Human Resource Management at the National Level... or on a National Scale [I stole that part, cus I liked it]. Might even take dopers, and reprobates too, readjust the ASVAB requirements, in other words, take some HRM tools out of the box. The Selective Service don't get too particular when the bods are needed pronto. Get my drift.
So, what to do... if you're not suited for military life... start working out and Join a service that has guaranteed training for specialties that don't necessarily shoot weapons. Such as: Clerk, personnel, admin, medical, dental, supply, cook. Go Navy, Air Force... but IF a draft is coming down the pike... you better act fast. Or, you'll be 1,2,3ing it down at the Military Recruitment Center (or whatever it's called these days).
What is 1, 2, 3ing it mean Uncle Theo?
Okay, back in the day... you stood there lookin' as sloppy as you could while some dude lookin mighty starched, walked down the ranks going Army, Marines, Marines, Marines, Marines, Marines, Army (etc...) See when you're drafted... it's too late. You don't have a choice of either service or military occupational specialty (MOS). They pick... is that what you want? No, you want choice.
Futher more, there has always been sex in the military. The bases used to be surrounded by accomodating establishments. Except Iraq. No alcohol, maybe some (PC) sexual diversions, Maybe. Whole different military culture, time and place from where I soldiered. I feel for them all. Humans do have sex right? Humans under alot of stress have sex too, it natural.
If you might die... your body may just increase the hormonal flow in order to ensure procreation occurs... Darwin would agree, so should half you commie fuggers readin' this.
Ski... does that suit? Sorry about the launch, bourbon and coke does wonders. Anyway. We're better now.
Gays in the military?
Back to my orginial thought.
The don't ask, don't tell policy wasn't invented by the military. It was handed to them. And I will continue to contend that....
"We have an HIV issue on the battlefield which is going to be a hard sell. Blood flies everywhere. Bodies vaporize and tissue gets widely dispersed... But maybe a cure will show up and it won't be an issue (which I doubt).
35 - SFC SKI
NP, Theo, and you are pretty much dead on.
36 - Steve S
If HIV is the reason for Don't Ask, Don't Tell, then it is only a matter of a few more years before that reason is moot, as the rate of infection in other groups, like teen girls, the hispanic community, inner city youth in need of college assistance (and likely to enroll in the military), while these groups might not have the numbers just yet, their rate of infection is usually higher. So if you're singling one group out right now cuz you're afraid of cooties, in just a few years, like two or three, your argument will be moot.
Also, this argument does not address the current discrimination against lesbians who have a lower rate of infection than current military personnel.
37 - Theo
The military retains HIV personnel, until they develop AIDS, at which time they are given a medical diability, and cared for under the VA (which isn't usually a safe thing to do), or retired for medical reasons. But HIV infected personnel cannot serve in a combat zone, nor can they get underway on ships or perform other hazardous jobs.... What's up with that? Only the really healthy service members can go in harms way, or perform arduous duty... while the HIV's (gay, bi, straight or just plain old unlucky) slack off?
Now there's a a sound retension policy. Can't join with HIV, but you can contract it and stay, and receive some great medical care, not normally available to people who can't afford the medical insurance, let alone pass an insurance policy physical examination. AND.... slack off in the process... sounds like a pretty good deal to me. No wait... they have HIV, that's terrible. It sure is, it leads to dibilitating conditions, so does cancer, and diabetes and ebola.... it's a disease. The military is operational, and needs to be physically able to meet those obligations.
[FACT] This social experiment will go on, as long as there are dollars to support it. Once the drain on resources starts occuring, and personnel resources are tied down elsewhere because of policy... those policies will end. Business models that drive budgets both inside and outside of government dictate that fact. Unless donations can keep things operational.... or taxes.
So, let me paraphrase.... naysayers are advocating the underpinnings of an entire allocation, paid through yours and my taxes to support a politically correct approach to maintaining an infrastructure based on sexual orientation, or high rates of STD's among same sex encounters. But lesbians are okay, because the STD issue is reduced. [?????]
What's the standard?
Where's the standard? We now have two, maybe more. Come in clean, don't tell, get diseased, we'll keep you until you go terminal, but you can't go into harms way because you might (a) get hurt or (b) you might spatter blood product around and infect others who are in harms way trying not to get hurt themselves.
I repeat... Where's the standard?
To be fair... it isn't fair, disease isn't either... but we should attempt to be fair when we're asking willing, good hearted, brave, intelligent people to defend our rights, and our country, and to be prepared [key word here], be prepared to go in harms way to ensure it is done.
If you are not fit for world wide assignment; that means: anywhere, anytime, in a good physical and mental state of preparedness, you are not up to standard. Because in the military (before political correctness and social experimentation) that was the standard. Period.
It's a right vs right ethical dilemma. What's right is to [do this]... but it's also right to [do this]...
Ethics? Who said ethics....
38 - PeaceLoveWoodstock
Hey, where's gonzo on this?
He was on subs in the Navy... it's only gay if you're in port. Right gonz?
Gonz? Hey dude... we need ya here, dude... quit looking at stilesmedia.com and come over to the blog page dude....
39 - Stanley
Where'd everybody go?
40 - PeaceLoveWoodstock
www.stilemedia.com I guess... kinda quiet. Must be nappin' before the big all-nighter blogfest.