Say something, anything. Stall for time, for wisdom, for another sip of Jameson. "Well, if it isn't, you’re speaking to the wrong person," I said, not knowing if I had said the correct magic words.
"President Eisenhower," he responded delightedly.
"Mr. Stevenson?" I asked.
That led to a discussion of the appropriate times to start drinking (I swear I didn't bring that up) and how Churchill's notion of a morning drink was 90% ice and water and 10% scotch, which he would sip all morning. Then we got down to business.
"So, Mark, what can I tell you about young people and the vote… and declare yourself."
Okay, so interviewing Norman Lear about his program, Declare Yourself, was not going to be easy, but it sure seemed like it was going to be fun. And I’m pretty quick, except I completely forgot Declare Yourself was the name of the program, so I declared that I was a '60s liberal Democrat confused about what it meant to be liberal.
"I was at a conference for an entire day with a group of liberals who never mentioned the word once," he said. Deadpan. Damn. Was he kidding or serious? Oh well, fair heart and faint maids.
"I don’t think we should run away from the word," I said. "I just think we should define it."
"Well, you’re talking to a bleeding heart conservative," said Lear. Rats, this wasn’t the right interview.
"Excuse me," I said. "Isn't this the interview with Normal Lear?"
"Yes."
"Bleeding heart conservative?"
"I'm concerned about my First Amendment or my Bill of Rights or my Constitution," this person claiming to be the famed Lear said. "But socially, I want no child to be left behind, and I'll give up what I have to accomplish that. That's my bleeding heart part. But we're talking about the youth vote."
Fat chance I was going to let him off that easily. After all, he doesn’t know where I live. "I'm very interested in the youth vote, but I'm fascinated by you calling yourself a conservative."
"Those are my roots," he said. "You’re going to have to live with it, because that's what I’m saying."
Parry, thrust, feint… water in the face. End of faint.
"What are you conservative about?" I asked.
"My First Amendment, my Bill of Rights, my Constitution…"
"Excuse me, those are liberal deals."
Article comments
1 - Dave Nalle
Interesting, it sounds to me like Lear might be a REAL liberal. Because, of course, a real Liberal would inevitably see himself as a conservative trying to preserve liberal values against the threats of authoritarianism, whiggism and nowadays socialism and even stalinism as well.
Dave
2 - El Bicho
Good piece, Mark.
3 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"We didn't start a new group as much as evolved a program that really began simply with the fact that we were the only ones who had a copy of the Declaration of Independence. That's how we started…. All of this grew out of that. We still are doing our own thing. There's nobody else who has assembled these kind of partnerships in this big a way."
Mark, this appears to be you quoting Lear. This is Norman Lear you were quoting, not King Lear, right?
I have about 20 copies of the Declaration of Independence, all acquired before I was 17 years a of age. They are in unabridged dictionaries, textbooks, reference books and the occasional book that specifically deals with American history. Was Mr. Lear saying that he had this separate group because "we were the only ones who had a copy of the Declaration of Independence."
If this is true, your country is about nine tenths flushed down the toilet with the water flowing fast washing you all down to damnation.
Damn it, Mark, you're neither a liberal or a conservative. You're a smart rat drowning in a culture of media inspired ignorance! Get the hell out of there! Smart rats jump off sinking ships!
4 - Mark Schannon
Ruvy, such a compliment? A smart rat? Are rats kosher? However, I think you're limiting your pessimism. I've been thinking--if I ever get enough of my brain back to write more often--of writing a series called something like, "The End of it All." This cheerful series of articles would point to incidents, large & small, throughout the world, that prove that homo sapiens isn't fit to inhabit the planet...
Thanks for the confusion, Dave, LOL. It is true that it's hard to tell the difference between smart liberals and conservatives--but I'm not so worried about creeping socialism or stalinism. Just look at how well socialism worked in Europe. we've got to find a third rail, er, path...
Thanks, El.
And to all...
In Jameson Veritas
5 - Dave Nalle
Ruvy, I think it was clear that Lear was saying that they purchased one of the ORIGINAL copies of the Dof I so that they could tour it around the country and use it as a recruiting tool. Not something they could do with the copy on a page torn out of a 1964 encyclopedia.
Dave
6 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Dave,
You're not talking about one of those things you buy at the Library of Congress Souvenir Shop for $39.95 (plus tax), are you? Like in the movie National Treasure?
I don't really mean to demean Mr. Lear's efforts, but it has been my experience that people vote when they are taught as young children that voting and the techniques of self-government, like deliberation and debate, are real and not the entertainment and bullshit seen on TV. That is not something you learn by having a piece of faux parchment, or even real parchment, waved in your face as an item for adulation, like a god to be worshipped. It is something you learn by doing.
You then learn from experiencing self-government that documents like the DoI and the constitution of 1788, for example, result from the deliberations of people in crisis, who see the need to take desperate and decisive measures.
But I suppose that having taught history, you know that already.
7 - Mark Schannon
I'm not so sure I agree with you Ruvy, although you're right that if kids are taught early about the importance of voting, it makes it a lot earlier. I feel the same way Lear does about those documents--they have a sacred quality to them and need to be protected against the left & right who'd mess with the Constitution.
But their move to engage the internet and the kinds of celebrity stuff that 18 year olds buy is a recognition that they'll register a whole lot more kids that way. I still think they should first get them to remove all the pins and needles from their bodies. Yuk.
In Jameson Veritas
8 - Dr Dreadful
Right, these organizations have to understand their demographic. There seem to be a lot of people out there who think the way to attract youth is to attach the word 'zone' to everything. So you would no longer have a polling station, you would have 'The Vote Zone'. [shudder]
9 - Mark Schannon
Dr. Dreadful, I didn't get the sense that these folks were like that. It was less about being hip and cool and more about first finding out what the little bastards...I mean kids want...and then delivering it in where they reside...like in the internet zone.
Now, I'm heading off to the vomit zone.
Cheers, and remember...
In Jameson Veritas
10 - troll
so...this is representative self-government - ?
the whole movement is another of Lear's sick jokes
now organizing a national boycott on the other hand...
11 - Mark Schannon
Troll, melons & mushrooms, did you get up on the cynical side of the bed this morning or what?
And...what are you talking about? (And why isn't anyone reading the real interview...this article's supposed to be a joke, oy.) What Lear sick jokes? What boycott?
You wanna boycott something go after those FDA buffoons who are trying to sneak non-chocolate into chocolate so people who make non-chocolate chocolate can call it chocolate.
Stop being so cryptic. I'm still a little ill & fuzzy.
But, I remain convinced,
In Jameson Veritas
12 - troll
*Troll, melons & mushrooms, did you get up on the cynical side of the bed this morning or what?*
Gaia is messing with me again making it impossible to keep my work schedule...so I thought that I'd drop in here and find some author to harass
boycott what - ?
why positivist political pap of course
13 - Mark Schannon
Troll,
Gotcha. A little too goody two shoes for me to, but I was serious about Lear. Add the passion that guy has to a sense of humor even you'd love, and you gotta take it somewhat seriously.
In Jameson Veritas
14 - Clavos
But is he the King?
Or merely a poser?