Who knew that a sincere message of peace could elicit such hatred?
The airwaves and the internet are filled with hatred and spite against the President of the United States, and not just by hard-line conservatives. Islamic terrorist groups across the Muslim world are also spewing vitriolic accusations against President Obama, despite the assurance by American conservatives during the presidential election campaign that Obama was on the terrorists’ side!…
Article comments
126 - roger nowosielski
#90,
Not sensitive - simply don't care for the attack dog style.
127 - roger nowosielski
Zedd,
What do you mean "Keep me delusional" (#102, #104).
I like your thinking processes. A few minor points of disagreement, but you're on the right track. I would stress more the distinction between our practices and our ideals if I were you. I think your analysis is too much grounded in what we do, not enough in what's possible.
So if you care to pursue it a bit further, I'm game.
128 - Zedd
Roger,
You may be right. That approach is based on the type of forum that we find ourselves in. Republicans of late wont understand that sort of dialogue. They have been taught that it represents the fanciful, dream state of liberals. I cant see how we can discuss possibilities on BC. Perhaps you can help me out with that.
I thoroughly enjoy collaboration and solutions oriented thinking emmensely. I believe myself to be a big picture thinker meaning, my processes often are geared towards the goal.
On this forum the goal is often "how do we create a society/world where everyone in it feels the most content". Most of my comments speak to that. Off course if someone suggests that we blow our enemies up, I would have to explore just how they've come to that in order to move the discussion passed that diversion. In the end, we don't solve anything. It simply ends up being a fun mental exercise for me and an opportunity to throw a jab at Clav my bud.
129 - Zedd
Ruvy,
I don't see Jews as a single entity so I cant hate Jews. I know a lot of people who are of Jewish heritage and they are not in the state of Israel so my contention doesn't apply to them. I also know that there are many Jews in Israel who are against your Zionist ideas so I have no disagreement with them. As for the ones who I disagree with, I don't hate them. I don't know them. I just think they are wrong and highly selfish and distructive.
You can stop hiding behind millions of innocent bystanders who happen to be Jewish. They don't support your sick ideas. In a way, they too are your enemies.
Sorry to disappoint, I don't hate a single Jew.
You are correct I don't read your articles all the way through. However when I have read your critique of Israel it still lacks the adequate ownership of your misdeeds and wrongs towards others. You speak about Jews being disloyal to the faith or "Jewness" but you don't speak about Jews being wrong in their actions towards others. Huge problem. Huge problem for anyone.
130 - roger nowosielski
Zedd,
#128: Now I see I have to refer you to my piece: Start with this; and there are Part II and III in which I conclude my argument.
I believe it addresses the question you're raising - which is whether there's such a thing as progress, and if so, how it happens.
I do hope you'll give it a quick once-over so we can continue this discussion.
131 - Cindy
Roger,
Honestly and truly, cross my heart and hope to die, I wasn't attacking. You, yourself, have said intonation can be difficult read on a chatboard. If you look back at what I said and read it without attributing harshness and put it in a gentler voice, you might see that it does not automatically call for a harsh voice. I was merely correcting what I saw as being misconstrued.
It is a sign of respect where I think a person capable of understanding that words mean different things to people and treat them as able to accept direct feedback about my meaning without having to couch things delicately.
'Karma' is a word from eastern philosophy used with various meanings by westerners. Having seen my reaction to being subject to Somik's 'pop Buddhist' or 'guru-style' advice, you may understand that I have reservations about certain people who claim to have wisdom that they don't really have. Partly demonstrated by his dispensing one-size-fits-all 'universal truth' fixes to people he's never even had discourse with.
I therefore admit my response to the word 'karma' is reactionary. I don't prefer eastern philosophical words and I am unlikely to agree I am bringing any such thing up in what I say. But--it was reaction to a word is not a reaction to you. I was only trying to clarify. I'll try to be more careful.
132 - roger nowosielski
Cindy,
I'm not saying you were. I can only go by form of words. I did not disagree with your earlier comment and there was no need for my to amplify it because you expressed your ideas clearly enough.
All I have done was to enlarge on it - in my own way - with no intent or misinterpreting it. And even if you don't believe in the concept I brought to bear, it is intelligible enough to some people in the cause-effect type of sense in order to be able to discern the implications of your remark beyond the original context.
133 - Zedd
Roger,
I believe that there is such a thing as progress and that it does occur. Towards what end, who knows. However I believe that the experience (and the choices) of the individual is/are far more powerful. Whatever discussion that we have, it will rest upon the individual's choices to drive whatever end result. What forces progress is the courage of the individual.
I don't know if this is the forum to accomplish meaningful results. I think that this forum allows us to understand one another's positions and it also enables us to see each other as multidimensional individuals. In a large way, that is progress. Many will not be willing to surrender to that reality because it feels better (or safer) to draw sweeping conclusions about people or groups. But for the most part one gets to see individuals and not just members of political parties or Lefties and Wing-nuts in such a space, they inevitably grow from that realization and that is fantastic.
134 - Cindy
I'll try to see that next time.
(p.s. Do you think Mark is a Marxist?)
135 - roger nowosielski
"But for the most part one gets to see individuals and not just members of political parties or Lefties and Wing-nuts in such a space, they inevitably grow from that realization and that is fantastic."
I wish I was as optimistic about these prospects, given the present format, as you are, Zedd. Personally, I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that most bloggers are megalomaniancs.
It's crazy to begin with to be writing pieces for other bloggers? At best, it comes across as some kind of writer's retreat or seminar.
We should be addressing the people at large, not just the other writers. Where is the sense in that?
136 - roger nowosielski
I'm just kidding him about it, but so far he hasn't denied it.
137 - Zedd
I don't know about them being megalomaniacs... but the potential to be a megalomaniac may be a human trait. Look at toddlers for goodness sake. :o) I think most people if not checked would exhibit such tendencies. I believe that people who live an unexamined life and are oblivious about the world around them would be even more apt to exhibit those traits.
I think most humans have the capability of becoming Sadam Husein. I think that most dictators start off with the most noble of intentions (whether their ideas are good or smart or well thought through is another story) but they become faced with the inevitable obstacle of getting people to cooperate and go along. What they end up doing is making the fruition of their vision much more important than the journey it will take to get to it. Off course what happens is more descent and they have to clamp down even further. In the end, the vision is forgotten or distorted and the clamp down becomes the status quo.
I will take time to read your piece soon. Perhaps we will strike up a great and legnthy discussion with a few hot pockets. No fun if we agree on everything.
138 - roger nowosielski
Hot pockets is fine with me. And you know where to find be. For the time being, I'm stuck here.
139 - Cindy
Yeah, well, he's like that--restrained and subtle.
140 - Ruvy
You are correct I don't read your articles all the way through.
Then you don't really know what I'm talking about - and probably don't give a damn either. That's okay, Zedd. You can admit the truth. I won't get mad at you.
But, if you shikker up a bunch of AMERICAN Jews in Jerusalem, you find out what they really think of the Blessed of Hussein. And they make fools of themselves - like most drunks tend to do.
I'm not going to make excuses for them. The saving grace they have in my eyes is that they came to visit Israel at all - unlike so many many Jews in America who just don't give a fuck.
141 - roger nowosielski
It's not because they're racist. Is that what you're saying?
142 - Ruvy
Roger,
They're American racists. These are not Israelis talking, but American racists, drunk in a bar. And even the Obama supporters in the bunch have become disgusted by the obvious pro-Arab tilt of American policy in the Middle East.
Israeli Jews are a whole different kettle of fish and respond differently entirely. This video is a bunch of university students who reflect the leftist tilt of the Hebrew media. Their ass-kissing is sickening - but they reflect the leftist bullshit hustled here. They very much reflect the bullshit that the Jerusalem Post hustles as well.
On the other hand,Rabbi Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute gives much of the answer that I would give - though he whines somewhat too much for my taste. Remember his final words, his quote from the Book of Isaiah. It is my warning to you.
143 - roger nowosielski
But that goes counter to the conventional wisdom that Jews (especially American Jews) are not racists? You do know the support of the Jewish community for Civil Right.
They're living a double life then. Shame.
144 - Ruvy
Remember his final words, his quote from the Book of Isaiah. It is my warning to you.
Make that: Remember his final words, his quote from the Book of Jeremiah. It is my warning to you.
And it doesn't mean anything to me if you believe me or not. If America tries to destroy Israel, disaster will befall her and she will surely fall and be destroyed herself.
145 - roger nowosielski
Just watched the video. Quite informative about certain misrepresentations of Obama's speech. The status of Jerusalem, in particular, as though the fulcrum of Muslim interest and attention, is one gross misrepresentation.
My only problem - the grounding of the state of Israel in religious writings. I fully realize that this is an integral part of your religious beliefs. So I can only say that this is not a view that is recognized by the rest of the world. And I think therein lies the crux of the matter.
I'm not clear enough about "the settlements" issue. What particular territory is concerns?
As I've stated time and again, I do believe there ought to be considerable "buffer zone" between Israel and the would-be Palestinian state to prevent acts of aggression.
146 - Ruvy
Roger,
I ground MY beliefs in the Torah. What you believe in is your business. But, for the same essential argument, without the Biblical underpinnings, you can read The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law, by Howard Grief. This $49 tome summarizes the legal case for the country's sovereignty as grounded in international law as opposed to the Covenants of the Torah. Don't let Stan Denham at this book, though. It'll piss him off no end. ;o))
147 - roger nowosielski
Well, that's something different then, because it offers a kind of perspective that might be shared by all and all alike.
After all, I'm certain that neither you nor I would want the world to come to an end if other principles of attaining a relative peace in the region were not to be tried.
148 - roger nowosielski
I can't afford it, Ruvy. But why don't you write a book summary (since you're obviously familiar with the content).
I realize that in part at least, you might be compromising what you regard as a "stronger case"; nonetheless, it is something that some of the more astute and less biased members of the BC community would be receptive to.