Who knew that a sincere message of peace could elicit such hatred?
The airwaves and the internet are filled with hatred and spite against the President of the United States, and not just by hard-line conservatives. Islamic terrorist groups across the Muslim world are also spewing vitriolic accusations against President Obama, despite the assurance by American conservatives during the presidential election campaign that Obama was on the terrorists’ side!…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - roger nowosielski
Jeannie. You and I are on the same wavelength. Notice near-simultaneous postings.
27 - Arch Conservative
Typical libs.
Government is the answer.
Some never learn.
28 - roger nowosielski
Notice, Arch, how often you resort to labels. Is it because you're incapable of original thinking? I don't believe I ever called you a fat fascist, pig or a rightie. If you've got something to say to Jeannie, say it to her directly and pull no punches. But this constant hiding behind labels and name-calling really reduces the quality of your thinking to the level of verbal ejaculations. Besides, you wouldn't want us to think that you lack balls to confront whomever you want to confront - mano a mano.
Be a mensch, not a mouse.
29 - Jeannie Danna
Arch-(Typical libs.)Thanks for the compliment I try hard to be called that...:)
30 - Jeannie Danna
Roger, Be nice :)
31 - Jeannie Danna
Well I have to leave now. When my "manifesto" posts please remember I wrote it for all of you...My new friends...:)
32 - roger nowosielski
Why, Jeannie. I'm only appealing to Arch's sense of honor and intelligence.
33 - Ruvy
Well, I see you all managed to move away from the speech Obama gave to arguing how the American government should or shouldn't get you all out the mess its gotten you into. I'm sure it's an interesting topic, but I want to move back to the speech the Blessed of Hussein gave at al-Azhar University in al-Qahir ('bout time you guys heard the real names instead of the phony ones you all use).
Al-Azhar University is where the Jew-hating Wahhabi push their propaganda, and al-Qahir is where "Mein Kampf" is a best seller. The Prince of the Land of the Setting Sun, the Blessed of Hussein based, "his reconciliation with Islam" on throwing Israel under the bus, by erecting a terror state in what is now a relatively peaceful Judea and Samaria, making it judenrein - Jew-clean. The method proposed is outlined in this 2 minute Youtube clip that basically calls for invading Israel.
This comes as no surprise to me. I've been warning that the United States will sell us down the river and invade Israel for quite some time now. And anybody who figures out the logistics will see that a strong American force can be brought here by driving across Jordan (Eastern Mandate Palestine, stolen from the Jewish people by the British in 1922) while evacuating Iraq at the same time. Ain't that sweet?
Now in all truth, I have to tell you that if I have to raise a rifle to defend my home and homeland against invaders and destroyers, I would much rather shoot at and kill Americans than fellow Jews. And there are a whole bunch of 'Nam vets who would find the experience of shooting at Americans interesting, to say the least, if not exhiliarating (sp?).
Right now, Jews are squealing like stuck pigs over Obama's open moving of America to the dark side. They will have very quickly get used to viewing America with a new word - "ENEMY".
34 - Arch Conservative
Ruvy, here in America we don't refer to him as "the Blessed of Hussein"
Some acceptable nicknames would include
King Barry
Captain Teleprompter
Eight Ball Barry
Ol' Jug Ears
The Chicago Charlatan
The Kenyan Kid
35 - Jeannie Danna
# 37-An acceptable nickname for Arch would be
jealous...
36 - zingzing
everything means so much more when you write it like this.
37 - zingzing
ruvy: "Now in all truth, I have to tell you that if I have to raise a rifle to defend my home and homeland against invaders and destroyers, I would much rather shoot at and kill Americans than fellow Jews. And there are a whole bunch of 'Nam vets who would find the experience of shooting at Americans interesting, to say the least, if not exhiliarating (sp?)."
such glee you show for killing the invading americans. nevermind that they are not invading, and in all likelihood, never will. nevermind that we're your biggest ally. nevermind that we gave you those very weapons you really, really want to shoot us with. nevermind the fact that WE WOULD NEVER HAVE TO INVADE YOU, and that simply by saying, "you're on your own," you would be at the mercy of the very, very angry islamic world that surrounds you. we're the biggest obstacle standing in the way of your destruction, and you're over there peeing on our leg.
ruvy, i hate to say it, but if you were to even vaguely represent your people, you'd deserve everything you got. you are the most paranoid, antagonistic, blood thirsty, hypocritical, cracked out old man i've ever had the pleasure to talk to. and it is a pleasure. if only for the endless cascade of comedy you provide.
38 - Ruvy
everything means so much more when you write it like this.
Once upon a time the comment editors would have fixed an open HTML tag left by a sick system. Those days have passed, I see.
Ruvy, here in America we don't refer to him as "the Blessed of Hussein"
Barak Hussein, is Arabic, Bing, and means "Blessed of Hussein". I use the term to remind you all of an ugly fact that you would all rather forget. In the eyes of Moslems round the world, Barack Hussein Obama is a fellow Moslem, even if he commits apostasy (in their eyes) by identifying with Christians.
nevermind that they are not invading, and in all likelihood, never will. nevermind that we're your biggest ally......
blah blah blah.... Zing, if I relied on your expertise in foreign affairs I'd be no better off than a wino staggering around on East 41st St. on a Friday night
39 - Zedd
Folks,
The truth is no one knows what to do. Lets all simply acknowledge that. Applying fantasy scenarios cant patch up the problem. Chanting your pet ideology, one that has never been applied to any situation that remotely resembles this one is silly and fantasy driven. There will be false starts and lots of mistakes. There will be lots of negative ramifications even if the best solution was employed. That is what is supposed to happen.
Example:
If you are a female of child bearing age, and having lots of unprotected sex you will more than likely either get pregnant or end up with some sort of STD. Whatever happens after that wont be great. There are psychological ramifications that are sure to come, shame, guilt, etc. There are physical challenges that are sure to come and economic consequences as well along with a slew of other not so fun stuff. Whatever solution that you employ, the negative results will remain or fester and perhaps expand with time. It's just the way of the universe. Which is why unprotected sex is discouraged in the first place. Are we all on the same page?
The moral of the story is, if you do the wrong thing, more than likely something bad will come of it. Whatever you do to correct it, there will still be negative ramifications. If the wrong could be fixed without the negative aftermath then society wouldn't consider it to be a wrong in the first place. Are we all on board with that?
The key at this point is to learn from it and don't do it again.
I have not heard the Republicans, who need to take the blame for most of this fiasco, express any sentiments that would express "lesson learned". That to me is annoying and insulting. Like putridly spoiled children, they feel that they have the right to stand in the public square and critique, tisk tisking, when they have behaved so ridiculously irresponsibly. It means that they will continue to do selfish, mindless things which will impact the world and justify them based on some half baked ideology which doesn't work in the 3D world that we Earthlings live in; ideas that don't account for human nature and the overwhelming preponderance of historical data which support their strong improbability.
We have to entertain them by responding to their silly jabs so that they feel like they are part of the democratic process when in actuality they are nuisances who are occupying space that could be filled by more forward thinking individuals who will actually impact the world positively and pose a true challenge to the Dems by forcing them to up their game.
40 - Zedd
Ruvy,
Why is the proposition that Obama's name is Muslim an ugly fact. Remember we live in America. We actually pride ourselves in things like that being irrelevant. You are hoping that we are indeed bigoted (at least against Muslims) and that we have a consensus on how we feel about THEM. Since you are no longer in these parts, Yes the kooks, racists, and crack pots among us did make a big deal (snicker) about the name thing. However that didn't go anywhere. It fell flat because its a weird point or a none point. His Dad gave him that name..... So. It is Islamic.... So. His Dad also gave him that tan ..... oh my! AND that fro... eek! And that brain..... YIKES!! His mom bleached his skin .... lawdy me!!! AND that long chin.... Ahhhhhhh.
In other words. What's your point?
Your hatred makes you a weak person and worst of all a weak man. You can't get a grip on things. You are drunk with hate for what has never existed. You were enticed as a young man and are now addicted to the notion of your possible superiority and preferred state by the ruler of the universe. You can't let go of the anger and hatred because you are afraid that by doing so, you will just be one simple old man of multitudes. If you stop the hatefest, you will be left with nothing but just you to live with and to live for. So you spew on, fighting for morsels to hate; tiny crimes and specs of "done me wrongs" in order to perpetuate the thing which keeps you from facing life as just a simple guy living the in the desert.
Have at it.
41 - Ruvy
As, usual, Zedd, you haven't been paying attention to reality. So you miss the subtle points that create reality for you and fall for the media bullshit.
What are these subtle points? Let's outline them for you in a desperate hope that you might understand (I'm not holding my breath).
Obama was anti-Israel before he became a US senator in 2005. He didn't get these attitudes from school in Indonesia but from his Moslem running buddies during his late teens and early twenties, the life-long friends who helped propel him where he is now. These attitudes didn't matter in the Illinois legislature. But Obama was smart enough not to let them show in the US senate.
You forget that Obama brings to the table a certain loyalty to people he feels mean something to him. There is his loyalty to his friends, mentioned above. In addition, he did what he could to help the Luo tribe in Kenya (his tribe) when he was senator, and wound up helping the Moslems there impose Sharia law in that country.
Now we see that the Moslems he so downplayed when running for president mean an awful lot to him. The closest the Moslems have to a khalíf these days is the Guardian of the Two Holy Cities, Mecca and Medina - presently, the king of Saudi Arabia. He bowed to that king to show respect as best as he was able.
The Moslems regard him as one of their own - and they matter to him - a lot more than he will admit to the yokels who supported him in the States - yokels like you. That isn't a matter of bigotry - that is a matter of reality. You overlook the basic loyalties of the "Blessed of Hussein" at your own peril, Zedd. And you, determined not to let the facts get in the way of your politically correct vision, manage to ignore reality very well....
Your call, young lady. And your funeral, too.
42 - zingzing
ruvy: "Zing, if I relied on your expertise in foreign affairs I'd be no better off than a wino staggering around on East 41st St. on a Friday night"
at least i know what the day of the week it is when i stagger. and if anyone relied on your expertise in foreign affairs, we'd all be dead.
43 - Ruvy
The truth is no one knows what to do. Lets all simply acknowledge that.
The truth is Zedd, you do know what to do. Or rather, you all do know what to do, and find it painful to face.
You are broke: you are bankrupt. Paying your creditors (largely the Chinese) means letting them take your assets and your asses as well. The other option, created by the fact that you are the leading nuclear power on the planet, is to kill off the creditor. Those are both very painful choices, but that is all that is really available. All the rest is shit and shinola.
44 - zingzing
no one would think about that but you, ruvy. what does that say?
45 - Ruvy
no one would think about that but you, ruvy. what does that say?
I don't have patience for boozers who can't think straight, zing. If you have something to say, make it clear for those of us not drinking with you....
46 - Christopher Rose
If you don't have patience with people who can't think straight, Ruvy, how ever do you manage to live with yourself? Your thinking has got more kinks in it than almost everybody else I have ever met and you're so proud of it too.
It would be comedic if it weren't so serious too, but at least there is some consolation in that you are so successfully undermining all the things you believe in. Keep up the good work and maybe the Jewish-Islamist-Christian god deception/fraud will end even more quickly.
47 - zingzing
it's funny that i admit to ruvy once, years ago, that, at that time, i was drunk as i wrote, and every time since that, when he's pissed at me, he uses my one-time drunken state as some excuse, while he is consistently in a state of dogma/religious drunkeness himself and he can't recognize it.
oh, hypocrisy, you do not know your ends. of course...
you want it clear, ruvy?
Y
O
U
A
R
E
C
R
A
Z
Y
,
48 - Ruvy
Ah Chris, so long as I have money to cover the bills, I have no trouble living with myself. On the other hand, if I do not, I'm a regular bear. I do not require "straight thinking" to get by, just "clear thinking" - something else entirely.
Clear thinking usually involves plenty of kinks in it - the road of life is not straight at all, but windy and curvy - more so at times than a hairpin. But, Chris, your thinking is as straight as a stick - and contains as much sophistication to it as well.
My problem with zing - aside from his pathetic views - is that he colors them with alcohol. That is never a help to clear thinking at all.... He displayed erudition and intelligence but once on these boards that I remember. His discussion of the play, "The Merchant of Venice" displayed knowledge that subsequent investigation has shown to be very deep indeed. When he discusses Shakespeare and similar subjects, I'll listen - with respect for one who truly knows whereof he speaks - otherwise, well....
49 - zingzing
chris, i don't think ruvy's style of thought will quickly end the nightmare we all have to live through. unfortunately (fuck manchester united), i think that (red blows) ruvy represents a real problem for progress in the world, and we're going to have to (oh, you like the winning team) deal with forever and ever. if there is an answer to ruvy's militarism--and the fact that ruvy doesn't even realize that he's a murderous little prick gets in the way of this answer--i think it's going to end this sentence on a manchester sucks, asshole. EVERTON!
50 - zingzing
oh shit.
ruvy, you knocked my knowledge of merchant as some sort of anti-jewish thing. (which, of course, it is not.)
did you actually look it up? and did you come to a different conclusion?
51 - Ruvy
zing, blurting out, "you're crazy", or "fuck you" does not explain your thoughts - and leads to the impression that you are indeed drunk when you write - even if you are cold sober.
52 - zingzing
yeah, but the bits of it above that does explain my thoughts. they just end in the idea that you're crazy.
53 - Ruvy
If you know something, zing, I'll be the first to give you credit for it, if I see that it is so.... You evidently did know something, and I'm crediting you with having been right. No, I did not look it up, but I did read a bio of Shakespeare recently that I didn't realize I had, and what you had said was laid out in the book in spades....
54 - zingzing
really? well, i'm glad. at least your literary mind is sound. i will congratulate you on that. learn something from him: he meant well to all people, and saw good in everyone. a grand liberal, i'd say.
really, my faith is restored in you because of this. go twins.
55 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, as it was you that used the phrase "straight thinking" in the first place, I responded to you on that point. You then switched to "clear thinking" as if that was actually a meaningful difference, which, of course, it isn't. You are still not capable of doing it though, whatever you want to call it.
The arrogance you display towards zingzing and everyone else that doesn't agree with you, which would be over 99% of the world's population by the way, is as breathtaking as it is laughable. Ooh, look everyone, the mouse is roaring again!
Way to go on undermining both Israel and Judaism though; you're doing a great job on both counts.
56 - zingzing
hey, six months ago, or whenever, ruvy declared shakespeare his sworn enemy. and now he's backed off. that's one man. he only has (by all estimates) 6 billion, 784 million, 954 thousand, 582 hundred and 998 people to go.
57 - roger nowosielski
zing,
I envy your patience, or perhaps your form of expression. I'm afraid I can't emulate it - not when it comes to Ruvy's militaristic attitudes. I did confront him more than once, head-on, with you know what disastrous results, so I'm not going to try again. I consider it a lost cause. You are a better man than I am.
This, however, I will say. First, his apparent hatred of America and wish that we go under is, to say the least, unreasonable. Where would the state of Israel be, and the rest of the world, if these wishes came true? And second, now we see Ruvy extending the same notion of a "solution," restricted at first to solving the Middle East problem, to the world at large: nuking China. I'm not going to comment on the merit of such an idea. I think it's best to let it stand.
Zedd,
Love your #39 (and I'd include #40 as well, but I shan't: don't want to antagonize Ruvy.) Great content and what's just as important, the literary expression of it. Your writing style does remind me of Irene's. Have you noticed it?
You really should consider making a contribution to BC now and then.
58 - Mark
Nothing like waking to another dose of Ruvy's bigoted murderous nonsense...truly refreshing.
59 - roger nowosielski
Accept it as facts of life, Mark, just as the proposition that the sun rises in the East.
60 - Zedd
Thanks Roger,
My thoughts are a lot clearer than the ridiculous posts. I'm just a really LAZY editor. I will change a sentence but forget to delete all of the previous so I end up with mish mosh on the board. One of my laptops has a jumpy cursor. I'll be writhing a line and next thing you know my cursor is three lines back and I'm typing in the middle of a perfectly good word or sentence. When I go back to edit it - off course I'm lazy- I miss a lot of things. After I've posted I'm often shocked at the errors and fantasize that there is a conspiracy to change my posts (cause I'm Black) to make them sound far less intelligent and thoughtful :o)
Alas its just lazy me. I think I'll keep the conspiracy theory and bask in my delusion that my posts are pristine. :o) And we've got to keep Clav busy in his senior years... the dear.
61 - Ruvy
Roger,
I raise the issue of killing the creditor, not to plug it, but to show you your untenable position. We can afford to nuke Tehran - but you cannot afford to nuke China. China is a multi-centered country with 1.5 billion or more people - attempting to effectively defang her would be a task your nation could not manage.
This is opposed to nuking Tehran and possibly one other city in Persia to cut out the command and control systems there. The issue would not be to destroy a multi-centered society, but to make it impossible for the military to launch (or more to the point control) a missile launching against Israel.
There is a distinct difference in the two operations.
So, the final analysis is that you will have to fork over your assets (and your asses) to the Chinese. Have fun, guys!
62 - roger nowosielski
Great article, Glenn. It was indeed a brilliant speech, a masterstroke. The very fact that bin Laden tried to preempt it by releasing a video of his own only testifies to the possibilities inherent in the idea of bridging the conflict between the two civilizations.
I was of the mind to write a piece on it too, in the context provided by Sean Hannity's most deplorable analysis of Obama's speech: it was the lowest of the low, the cheapest kind of propaganda you could possibly imagine - not to mentions Hannity's emblematic by now all-whining style. And I did try to get a transcript of Hannity's radio show when goes with his tirades for a good part of two hours - but couldn't.
Perhaps you might have a better luck with it, because it's a "gem." And to expose it would put a nice finishing touch to this article.
63 - roger nowosielski
Well, I'm glad, Ruvy, that you brought up the idea only for illustration purposes. And yes, I definitely think we can't afford to do that, but perhaps for a whole bunch of reasons which go beyond military might or logistics.
64 - roger nowosielski
Well, Zedd. If you're thoughts are much clearer than what we see here as mere pixels on the computer screen, then I'd say that you've already joined the ranks of the immortals. Or perhaps a rightful place at Plato's Symposium. And I'd find it intimidating if not scary.
Mind you, I don't make such admissions readily.
65 - Dan(Miller)
Wouldn't it be "way cool" if we could all live in a world full of happiness, flowers, zero calorie treats to eat without guilt and only truly good people? A world with no juvenile suicide bombers, no crazy guys with lots of power, like DPRK's glorious leader, Saddam Hussein and Chemical Ali, with no other truly bad/crazy people such as Hamas, with whom discussions based on sweet reason don't work?
Alas, we can only live in such a place in our dreams. Sadly,it may be necessary on occasion to experience some of the bad guys close up and personally in order to separate that beautiful dream world from reality. That's unfortunate because, no matter how much we may wish it were otherwise, reality does exist; really.
Dan(Miller)
66 - Ma rk
I'd add Ruvy to your list of bad crazies devoid of reason, Parenthetical Dan.
ymmv
67 - roger nowosielski
Is Paranthetical Dan suggesting, therefore, that Ruvy's Middle East solution is realistic? That's the one part I didn't get.
68 - Dan(Miller)
I haven't been to the Middle East and so have not experienced the situation there "up close and personal." I have no solution(s) to the problems there.
My point was that many people seem to live in a very pretty and otherwise tranquil dream world, and that sticking one's head in the sand generally produces nothing more useful than sandy ears. It seems quite unlikely that effective solutions will emerge from a dream world, and that very unpleasant ideas must be considered along with whatever more pleasant ones may be raised. It strikes me as silly to reject the former out-of-hand simply on the ground that "we don't want to do that" because all violence is bad.
Dan(Miller)
69 - Clavos
Occasionally (very occasionally) a rational voice manages to pierce the fog of the touchy-feely, we-are-all-brothers BS and point out that there are evil, truly evil forces about in the world.
Maybe, just maybe, someday they will be heard.
70 - roger nowosielski
I never argued that point. I'm still uncertain, though, whether you'd consider the nuking Tehran as one of the acceptable solutions - not in some distant and unforeseen future but here and now.
In addition, I'd say that notion of self-defense on the individual, personal level and self-defense of a nation are not exactly parallel concepts - and they're certainly not the same as a preemptive strike.
To take this analogy further, perhaps you should start killing the outlaws, who do represent a menace to your life and homestead, one by one, so as to minimize their chances of success.
71 - roger nowosielski
I'm curious, though, about the concept of evil as held by agnostics or atheists. In this particular respect, Ruvy's view of the world is much more justifiable and convincing than that which issues from the mouth of unbelievers. Somehow, it comes across as shallow or hollow - as mere form (of words) and devoid of content.
72 - Clavos
@ #39:
Applying fantasy scenarios cant patch up the problem. Chanting your pet ideology, one that has never been applied to any situation that remotely resembles this one is silly and fantasy driven.
Good point!!
Someone should tell the Messiah...
73 - Clavos
@ #70:
I wasn't referring to Ruvy.
74 - roger nowosielski
I think there's a misunderstanding here. #70 was directed at Dan.
75 - Dan(Miller)
Roger, re # 71
As you know, I do not share Ruvy's theological beliefs; I can't explain what God considers good or evil, because She and I are not on speaking terms. Nor can I offer air-tight definitions of good and evil from an Agnostic/Atheist perspective. They are rather like obscenity in that they are nearly impossible to define, but we often recognize them when we see them.
You might want to read (or, probably, re-read) Bertrand Russell's Individual and Social Ethics which, I think, offers some pretty valid ideas.
If forced to provide my own definitions, I suppose that "good" is that which advances human freedom and happiness without diminishing the happiness and freedom of others; "evil" is that which diminishes human freedom and happiness while producing no countervailing "good." Between "good" and "evil," there exists a fairly broad spectrum of things which are neither completely good nor completely evil. We might classify them as "necessary evils." War, while rarely "good," is not, per se "evil;" the participation of the U.S. in WWII falls into the intermediate "necessary evil" category.
There is probably still another (rather large) category, "fuck ups," into which many things initially classified as "good," "evil" or "necessary evils" fall after the fact. The banning of the insecticide DDT seemed like a good idea at the time; unfortunately, the resultant proliferation of mosquitoes caused a resurgence of malaria and other diseases. The freeing of the prisoner of Chillon probably falls into the same category. Germany's invasion of neutral Belgium in 1914 -- thought (by Germany) to be a "necessary evil" which would result in a short and successful war to bless all of Europe with the benefits of Germanic culture and order, did not work out that way; in retrospect many Germans came to realize, once WWI had become an unexpectedly prolonged mess, that it had been a world class "fuck up."
There are obviously problems with my attempted definitions; still, I can't think off hand of better ones.
Dan(Miller)