Provided here is a “translation tool” of sorts, to help understand terms employed by the Religious/Political Right.
Provided here is a “translation tool” of sorts, to help understand terms employed by the Religious/Political Right in editorials and sermons. These terms are also used quite often in the political arena.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - SteveS
I had a bi-sexual friend who commited suicide.
and so you define an entire group of people by that?
77 - Dave Nalle
Steve, I think Dan was out of line earlier, but describing homosexuality as a whole as a mental disorder isn't technically a personal attack, it's a blanket attack on all gays, so I suspect it's okay under the comment policy if not in any way that's actually meaningful.
Back to the irrelevant digression at hand. 7 minutes is no time at all. It's the time it takes to get the driver into the armored limo and pull it around to the front of the school. The whole argument over that 7 minute delay is ridiculous. In the context of all the things that were going on at the time it's so trivial that those who attempt to exploit it make themselves look like fools. The Secret Service told Bush what was happening and told him to wait until they were ready to go. He used that time to keep reading so as not to alarm the kids. End of story. You or I would do EXACTLY the same thing, because there was nothing else that could be done.
Dave
78 - SteveS
isn't technically a personal attack, it's a blanket attack
Dave, use the 'n' word to describe all African Americans, TO an African American and ask them if it's personal. Now how exactly is what Dan just said any different? It's not Dave.
Use the 'b' word, or the 'c' word to describe women, to a woman, and ask her if it's personal. Ask a Muslim, if a slam against their religion is personal. Ask a Jew.
I think this is what's problematic with a lot in this country and why so many people of all genders, races, religions, ethnicities, orientations and cultures are at odds. I think a lot of 'YOU GUYS' don't understand what a personal attack is. It doesn't always have to include a direct name.
79 - Dan
Steve S. comment #65: "We gay and lesbians are VERY aware of our birthright in this country, for it is that birthright that enables us to not hide in fear but tell bigots like you where to stick your opinion."
If you wouldn't have added the "like you" you wouldn't be guilty of a personal attack. But seriously, I don't think calling people "bigot" is all that bad is it? Like I said, no harm, no foul.
Steve S comment #77: "However, telling a gay person that being gay is due to mental instability IS a personal attack without mistake and far more vitrolic than I've been accused of."
Actually it's more a personal opinion than a "personal attack" but it's not what I said anyway, so your being irrelevent.
I said that mental instability is *positively correlated* with gay orientation. This is simply true.
If it makes you feel any better, genius is also positively correlated with gay orientation. Not to say that all geniuses are gay.
80 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Steve S.
You write,
"care to elaborate? For two years, here in the comment section, I've been saying we're heading for either civil war (haves vs. have nots) or an economic collapse and get called chicken little for it...."
I lean toward economic collapse topped with a massive flu epidemic. The economic collapse can be foreseen in one of Kathy Gil's articles about the overspent condition of the country and the fact that the US national debt is enough to wipe out every American (including broke ex-pats like me!).
Essentially it is premised on the "every bubble must burst eventually" concept. You guys have at least one bubble artificially inflating your economy, that being home prices, with two others being the huge credit overhang of the government, and the even huger credit overhang of consumers. Think of three huge beer bellies about to be popped by a needle.
In spite of recent news that the bird flu has not yet developed an "easy" route to human to human transmission, I have faith that "life will find a way."
A civil war between haves and have-nots could well follow an economic collapse, a natural consequence of the collapse.
Anybody minded to call me "chicken little" should remember that it's a rooster, not a chicken - as in Ruvy's Roost.
81 - SteveS
I said that mental instability is *positively correlated* with gay orientation. This is simply true.
link please.
82 - SteveS
Ruvy, anybody who has read me for awhile now can tell you that's something I've been saying here for several years. One of the things I wonder about, when I see people hoarding their wealth in this country, is what good it will do them when the economy collapses. Only the tangible assets they've been able to accumulate up to that point will be any good and then it becomes a matter of defending it and the more you've got to defend, the harder it's going to be. There's going to be a lot of hungry people out there. Survival of the fittest and all that. A lot of CEO fatcats won't survive that.
I do see a war between the haves and the havenots, from the blue collar workers who get screwed over by the CEO who makes 100 million, down to the illegal immigrants, but that belongs on another thread.
As for the bird flu, I've read it will take 8 months from initial outbreak until the damage is primarily over, (that was on discovery channel I think), so if you're not vaccinated, look to survive on your own and avoid human contact for a minimum of 8 months. Of course vaccinations will go to the rich who can afford it (but in a collapsing economy, I imagine you'll have to have something other than money to bargain with. Food perhaps). That's getting a little out there (in a chicken little sense), so I hope that the outbreak doesn't happen. I can only imagine that most other parts of the world would fair even worse given that many of them have even fewer resources.
And another thing we need to remember is that if the U.S. economy collapses, a lot of other economies around the world will follow suit. I also think that with the way Bush has been spending, bankrupting the economy has been the agenda of many neocons.
“My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub.” - Grover Norquist, President of the Heritage Foundation, a huge think tank that gives Bush many of his ideals.
83 - Dan
Dave Nalle: "so I suspect it's okay under the comment policy if not in any way that's actually meaningful."
Of course it's OK Dave. Speaking truth is almost always meaningful. I'm not happy that gays suffer disproportionatly from mental illness. Nor have I said that gayness is a mental illness. (although I might logically hold that opinion) I only challenge Steve S's assertion that persecution drives gays to suicide.
Mentally ill people have a higher rate of suicide. Gays have a higher rate of mental illness. Thus, gays have a higher rate of suicide.
If persecution is the primary cause of suicide, why is it that white men are much more likely than black men or women of any color to commit suicide? Surely, from the liberal viewpoint, they are the most priviliged members of society.
Oh, and please continue with the personal attacks, or the willful ignorance of such. It's a wonderful demonstration of rank hypocricy to fair-minded Blog Critics readers.
84 - Christopher Rose
Ladies and Gentlemen: Please confine your debate to the topic at hand and it's conversational spinoffs.
It's my unfortunate lot ;-) to be the one currently tasked with what is acceptable comment policy and as long as that's the case, I'd appreciate you all
butt out oflet me get on with my job.When I first started doing it, I was inclined to delete far more than now, being unfamiliar with your mostly American ways and insistence upon freedom of speech and other such frivolities (JOKE!).
The Blogcritics' house is however a very tolerant one and people as diverse in their views as Mr Nalle and say, co-owner Phillip Winn have urged me to be as lighthanded and low profile as possible. That may well include not doing this, but I'm only human too!
I'm finding my own way through dealing with this but it seems clear that to totally erase all personal characterisation would be wrong. Similarly, tolerating too much of it is unhelpful to enjoyable debate.
The point is, until you all make my role redundant through your own exquisite good judgement, I'm probably going to offend all of you some of the time and possibly some of you all of the time. Sorry about that!
On the subject of Jet's post, I'd like to add that people who use the word liberal as an insult are not actually attacking liberalism, they are attacking tolerance. If you substitute the words, you can see how truly ugly these ideas are and how ludicrous they sound. "Commy-loving tolerant" et cetera.
It's a stunning victory for the politics of hate regardless of it's location on the political spectrum and all decent people ought to recognise that.
85 - Jet in Columbus
Okay Dan, I'll conceded that the whole nation was stricken about the death and destruction in New York and Washington DC except you. You know, that's very telling, that while thousands were dying and suffering, you were only pissed that your flight had been canceled.
I'd say bin Laden owes you an apology
You're living with a "life partner" without being married? How immoral!
I'm saying that Nixon and Ford had more to do with the eventual fall of the Soviet Union. I'm saying that Kennedy's speech had more to do with rallying east German resolve to oppose the Russian imposition of a divided Berlin. I'm saying the Kennedy, Nixon and Ford had more to do with the fall of the Soviet Union... Reagan just took credit for it.
I'm saying that those cameras could've, should've been utilized immediately to make a statement to the country. Instead, they might have broadcasted to the world be it live or on tape, that the president was taking action, not sitting like an ineffective pawn, reading a kid's book.
Dave Nalle, your theory of him just passing time while the limo pulled around to a door, doesn't hold water. If that were the case, Bush would've been whisked to or at least near that door, so he could board the vehicle the moment it arrived.
Truth be told, one of the most modern and effective military command and control posts in the world, capable of handling any emergency, is aboard AIR FORCE ONE. The fact that he wasn't moved there immediately, is telling. It meant that his generals and experts, were handling the situation, because they didn't trust Bush to do it. So, they left him to read a kid's book and offer useless prayers.
Yuri, your assertion that the limo wasn't a good idea because it wouldn't withstand a rocket attack is telling also. A rocket attack, now that requires planning, but if it was planned, shoulder fired rockets wouldn't have been used in the first place. Another airliner would've been hijacked to crash into the school, a rather large target and easily recognized. The limo would've been a little harder to spot.
I wrote about the bible and dinosaurs, and one of the responses I got, is as preposterous as some of the protestations I've heard so far out of Dan and Yuri. A reader couldn't come up with a reasonable explanation for it, so he asserted that God intentionally created dinosaur bones, and placed them where man could find them to test his faith, proving that dinosaurs never existed, thus they wouldn't have been mentioned in the bible.
My original statement stands.
You say plate
I say dish
As I look over the field of battle, and view all the bodies and blood, all I can do is feel sorrow at how useless it all was.
I didn't change anything
You didn't change anything
No minds or views were changed.
Ruvi, I respect your views, but don't share your apocolyptic view, except on one point. As the economic classes further divide and the middle class vanishes, creating a country of haves and have nots, there will be an uprising.
I'm praying it's at the voting booth and not on the field of battle. You see the widening cultural divide in this country is weakening this country. While we're busy fighting eachother, someone's going to get the idea to strike at us while we're distracted with our little "my dick's bigger than your dick" fight...
This country has accumulated one hell of a financial debt totalling into the billions in the space of only 6 years. Where is that money that all of us spent. It's sitting in the hands of companies that took "no bid" contracts, charging a fortune for items worth one tenth of what we paid for. It's in the pockets of the Oil Companies that Bush owes props to, because they knew that a crisis in the middle east would raise gas prices and generate obscene profits for them. It's in the pockets of "Sweet deal" thieves like the company that Chenney use to run... Haliburton.
All it's done is buy a still loose bin Laden, a defiant Saddam, laughing at us in a courtroom on television, it bought us thousands of dead soldiers, and an Iran on the verge of civil war.
... but you see that's only my sick minded, feeble minded, in dire need of a shrink before I commit suicide minded, and bigotted opinion.
86 - Jet in Columbus
Christopher #87. Very well put, I stand chastized. I'm glad to see calmer minds prevail, whether they agree with me or not
Thanks
Jet
87 - Jet in Columbus
By the way Chris #88 was written and rewritten while you posted your well-put comments, and was posted without knowledge of what you were writing, nor was it in response to it.
Jet
88 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Jet,
You wrote,
"but you see that's only my sick minded, feeble minded, in dire need of a shrink before I commit suicide minded, and bigotted opinion."
Don't waste your money on a shrink - you don't need one. If you decide to commit suicide, just don't do it before I get there to watch - if I can't affored to make the trip, you'lll just have to wait.
Bigoted is spelled with one "g and one "t"."
89 - Jet in Columbus
Since you've appointed yourself my spell checker you'll be interested to know that it's spelled you'll, not you'lll. See we're all prone to making mistakes my friend
but you see that's only my speeling-challenged, sick minded, feeble minded, in dire need of a shrink before I commit suicide minded, and bigotted opinion.
90 - Jet in Columbus
I'm curious Ruvy, are you anxious for me to commit suicide, or just to watch?
91 - Jet in Columbus
Yuri, I'm curious, in my article Have I Become A Bigot Regarding Fundamentalists?, you wrote...
No matter who or what offends. Don't be a hater. Love is a masterful tool, not possessed by many.
After reading your comments here, my question is did you write that, or did someone using your name write it?
92 - SteveS
If persecution is the primary cause of suicide, why is it that white men are much more likely than black men or women of any color to commit suicide? Surely, from the liberal viewpoint, they are the most priviliged members of society.
Right wingers on this site have a very bad habit of throwing out claims and then when asked to substantiate them, just disappear. I hope I'm not the only one noticing this trend of numerous right wingers. Dan is still unable to substantiate a correlation between mental illness and orientation.
Suicide statistics: 73 percent of all suicide deaths are white males. If you look at the causes for suicide, Dan, it's pressure. The pressure on the white male is assumed to be greater. If you look at a datasheet showing the income levels of a white male and the income levels of a black woman across the nation, you can see they aren't even. The pressures of the white male to get into that world of privilege is much greater.
The pressure/condemnation that drives a gay person to suicide is the same. A gay teenager might be thrown out of the house, if he comes out of the closet, the pressure to hide is immense and so he will kill himself, even though to outsiders he seemed to live in a comfy world of privilege.
Note this from my link:
there are an estimated 8-25 attempted suicides for each suicide death; the ratio is higher in women and youth and lower in men and the elderly.
more women than men report a history of attempted suicide, with a gender ratio of 3:1.
So it can also be said that more women TRY suicide but more men are successful at it. Further blowing your unsubstantiated rationalization completely out of the water.
93 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Jet,
You wrote, "I'm curious Ruvy, are you anxious for me to commit suicide, or just to watch?"
Look at it this way. If you have to wait to commit suicide until I get to America again, you'll die of natural causes.
94 - Mark
Some words Arch Conservative missed in his expanded liberal dictionary.
Stereotype: Something used by the losing side of the argument to present a straw man they can more easily defeat.
Right-wing Dictionary: see Stereotype.
95 - Jet in Columbus
SteveS, as always, thanks for the research. He's going to ignore you, until he can find some slanted study that supports his point of view.
Be patient, it could be a long wait.
96 - Jet in Columbus
Ruvy #96 That's a relief, you had me worried there.
97 - Jet in Columbus
#97... I'm running out of space to write things in the margins there Mark. Thanks for your thoughts
Jet
98 - Alethinos59
Good post Jet. The issue, once again lost on people such as Arch and even David ISN'T a THEM v. US thing... It is the intolerance of the Right to ANY point of view OTHER than theirs.
I certainly wouldn't characterize myself as liberal - not by a long shot - but the Religious Right's attitude is revolting...
And should lead to revolting..
Alethinos
99 - Jet in Columbus
Alethinos, I've been looking forward to a comment from you. Thanks, and where've you been?
100 - Joey
"Good post Jet" -- #101
Okay what did I miss? A veiled attempt at humor, or a conditional submission of less than thought provoking agenda? No need to reply, as the author will undoubtedly speak his mind, as always (yawn) and inevitably cross into territorial agenda yet once again. Baiting is always so obvious.
We need to change the caveat of "personal attacks are not allowed... " to "articles which insult the readers intelligence (or show a lack thereof on behalf of the wrtiers....." (I had better quit before I cross that imaginary line in the sand).
Has anyone observed that entrance into the realm of insult is a one way street? The writers can exercise free will, while the readers have to endure?
101 - Jet in Columbus
Joey, I raised this question on my other string. You seem like a nice enough guy, but why raise hell about, or even read an editorial on a subject that has no interest to you.
The fact that we all have different viewpoints in this world is a good thing. If we all thought alike it'd be a damned boring place to live.
Do a little contributing to the string with your thoughts (other than yawning), and you might learn something, and I might learn something from you!
102 - Dave Nalle
Alethinos, in #101 you make the fundamental mistake of thinking that the right has a monopoly on being intolerant of any views other than their own. The same is just as true of the dogmatic left. It's not a characteristic of political ideology, it's a characteristic of being a dogmatic true believer regardless of what those beliefs are.
Dave
103 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks for clarifying that Dave. I've been saying all along that I get my views out so I can see other's views, whatever thay are. I like being proven wrong, because I learn from it.
I just don't like self-righteous jerks who profess "I'm right because I said so."
Give me a plausible reason for your views, not smart-ass remarks.
I write in the style I do and push the envelope a little, to cause people to think, even get a little riled up enough to put their thoughts down, so I can learn from them.
I'm not tryint to insult anyone, just get them to think, and maybe allow me to learn from them.
Jet
104 - Joey
"Joey, I raised this question on my other string. You seem like a nice enough guy, but why raise hell about, or even read an editorial on a subject that has no interest to you."
Because I can. Maybe it's a habit developed from obtaining 2 degrees.... I read a lot things that I had no interest in... but had to.
Do I have to read this? No, but sometimes when I take a glance at something, the article and thread just cries out for me to smash and twist it so it issues the essence of the underlying vomitus muck from whence it spawned.
105 - Jet in Columbus
"to smash and twist it so it issues the essence of the underlying vomitus muck from whence it"
Well... thanks for clearing that up
106 - Joey
I thought you would appreciate that one. It just sort of came out of my fingertips.
107 - Jet in Columbus
Actually I don't, but that's only my opinion
108 - Joey
BTW refer to the FCC article... I actually took a break from my the Mao book I am engaged in (note that engaged is quite different from reading) and replied at length. I will admit that often my comments are somewhat in the drive by mode, but I mean well.
109 - Joey
Yes it is only your opinion.
110 - Jet in Columbus
Okay I'll change my tag line to "That's merely my opinion." What polling company do you work for?
111 - Joey
Funny you should ask. I keep reading about all these polls... how someone polled this or that and the respondents....
I have never been polled. Ever.
Hmmmm. Maybe it's my look. I need a make over.
112 - Jet in Columbus
Aside from making Polish jokes, do you have anything to contribute to the subject of this string, or is this going to degenerate into a pissing contest, that frankly I don't have time for?
113 - Jet in Columbus
Joey #114 "I have never been polled. Ever." Don't knock until you've tried it! since we're trading sarcasms
114 - Jet in Columbus
Can we somehow get back to the subject?
115 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Jet, this "subject" is one that needs renewing every few news cycles. Each new buzzword introduced by each new spinmaster makes your work above - and those on the other side - oudated. So you may wish to consider this as a series. You lucky boy, you.
If you are able to separate yourself from your beliefs (tricky, but can be done) you can cover both sides of the fence every 6 weeks or so with a brand new bunch of bullshit from the American political spin scene. And given that busllshit is Ameerica's most abundant resource, you should have plenty to write.
From the former publisher of BSI Inc. (Bullshit International)
116 - Jet in Columbus
Hmmmmmmmmmm thanks for the suggestion...
117 - SteveS
actually, I think Ruvy has a good idea.
And if what we've seen of the other commenter's 'smashing and twisting' is the best it gets, then you have nothing to worry about, Jet.
118 - Jet in Columbus
Stay tuned for the sequel folks!
You know, while I'm at it, I'm thinking of doing one about words that you stare at, know they're spelled right, but just can't convince yourself that they are...
like sequel
119 - Matthew T. Sussman
Just give the Devil's Dictionary his due, because that's really the bit you're stealing.
120 - Jet in Columbus
Dave Nalle, help me out on this one. Matt I write from the heart, and I didn't even know that text existed, or I would've plagarized it better. As you can read early on in this, I had no idea who the man was.
I am not a thief
and I do not steal,
I resent the implication
I'm interested that you had to go all the way back to the early 1900s to find something resembling my writings. I suppose if I did enough research, I could google texts that would vaguely show plagarisms for everyone from Rush Limbaugh to Ted Kennedy.
If you're out and out, plain as day accusation of my stealing is true, you don't know me very well.
121 - Matthew T. Sussman
(In creepy possessed child voice) "Dave's not here."
Relax. Good artists copy, great artists steal.
By not attributing that great quote I stole it and looked smart. The circle is complete.
122 - Jet in Columbus
I will assert, good or great I didn't steal anything and I resent the insinuation that I did.
or am I just taking this whole thing all wrong?
123 - Progged
"It is the intolerance of the Right to ANY point of view OTHER than theirs."
I might actually laugh at that comment, if it wasn't so old and tired. The Left is no different, as this article and the ensuing comments so perfectly demonstrate. The Left is just as full of hate, venom and self-righteousness as the Right has ever been.
In fact, this article (and many of the comments) highlights the very reason that many of us who stand somewhere in the middle (having willfully distanced myself from the Right) have not, and likely will not ever, be swayed by the Left. We look one way and see intolerance, arrogance and hate, then look the other and are greeted by the same.
Tired hyperbole and rehashed rhetoric do nothing to convince those astute enough to see past it, no matter which side the tripe issues forth from.
124 - Nancy
Relax, Jet. I do a lot of quoting, too, but can't always remember the attribution; I just figure someone who's got a wide spread of info, like Gonzo or Dave or Eric will eventually either correct it or identify it for me. Point is, you've got to WORK at plagarism, and I don't think anyone here thinks you have; Matt is just tweaking you, it seems to me. If he wanted to slam you, you'd know it. He pulls no punches when he thinks someone's a dork.
125 - TA Dodger
"It is the intolerance of the Right to ANY point of view OTHER than theirs."
I might actually laugh at that comment, if it wasn't so old and tired.
Yeah... the left wants to FORCE people to have sex with members of the same sex. FORCE people to use birth control. FORCE people to abandon religion, FORCE people to consume media they find offensive...
Oh wait... that's not true at all.
The right on the other hand wants to FORCE people to conform to their vision of sexual and religious morality.
If you believe that the left is "intolerant" of the right (and you understand the difference between "is intolerant of" and "disagrees with") please feel free to actually give a warrant supporting your position.