If you think the true threat to our nation is illegal immigration, think again.
Most of us will publicly lament our immigration woes, but not without a disclaimer. “Look, I have no problem with immigration,” say we, “I just want people to come here legally.” This, after all, is supposed to be the sober, sane, American point of view, as we “know” that immigration is the lifeblood of the U.S.A. Personally, I can sympathize with this perspective. Western civilization has become old, tired and decrepit; it’s a mere shadow of its former self, running on fumes and on empty. Perhaps its time for it to be euthanized.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Nancy
Dang it, I'm gonna have to learn Ozzie slang now, too? And I just got through memorizing 'yo quiero Taco Bell...'
27 - Nancy
I like the incredible diversity of the DC area. I can find more varieties of ethnic restaurants here then I can in NYC, from Afghani to Zimbabwean. I can shop for saris or sarongs. I can celebrate everything from Eid to Cinco de Mayo to Holi to Christmas & then some. Alas, people being people, when they come they don't leave their problems or dirty laundry behind, & the criminal element is usually in the forefront of any migration. It's nice that people want to come here, but we can't absorb all of them, least of all those that can't even be bothered to come here legally, regardless of how desperate their circumstances are.
I've never heard any such bosh as what Ruvy quotes about the Statue of Liberty, but I DO think it's about had its time & should be removed & melted down. I'm willing to risk it; nothing can happen to us worse than what BushCo has already inflicted on us to ruin us, more than they already have. They couldn't have done better if they'd been hand in glove with Osama bin Laden to destroy the US.
28 - Clavos
Jerry writes:
In regards to immigration much of your understanding is based on observation of the Cuban experience in Florida.
The Cubans have long since been outnumbered by all the rest of the Latinos arriving here on a daily basis. This gives us a true melange of all of the various Latin cultures, as well as substantial communities of Europeans, including a significant Brit population and the largest group of Russians in the US outside of New York's Brighton Beach.
The net result is, we have the most diversified city in the USA these days, and its downsides are more attributable to sheer growth and the sharp upward valuation in property values, rather than the fact that we have a majority (51%) foreign born population.
My understanding of immigration in America also comes from having lived the decade of the nineties in South Texas, another majority foreign (descent, not born) area.
Also, my own birth in and long residence in Mexico, as well as having spent an entire career working for LatAm companies here and abroad, I think gives me a pretty good perspective on the implications of Latin immigration.
You say:
What is happening now in many other parts of the country is the co-opting of immigrants by leftists salivating over the potential voter bloc at their disposal.
This is true, but ignores the fact that the vast majority of those folks immigrated precisely because they saw the good in the American culture and society; most of them are decidedly NOT easy targets for those who are bent on destroying American values.
This includes the vast majority of my paisanos, the Mexicans.
29 - Jerry
Clavos-
I stand corrected on my assumption about your understanding and knowledge. But again, the effects of immigration are unique to each region and the fact that you have diversity and other dynamics at work in your city does not mean that it works elsewhere. That would be like saying socialism works so well in Scandinvia it should also be working in France.
We can laugh, joke and ignore what's happening, toss our worries into the bin of our sacred political ideologies which will solve all problems, but we view illegal immigration with a wink and warm fuzzies to our own peril.
30 - Locke
You know what I think is funny?... Is how everyone is so damn flustered about deporting the illegal immigrants that have already been living here for a time being and how we should tighten down on the deportation system. What we should be doing is focusing on border patrol because that is where it all starts. That is the real issue.
31 - STM
Doc: "I intend to enjoy some barbecued hot dogs and burgers on July 4."
Yum. American hot dogs. The Yanks Down Under always throw their own celebrations and invite everyone along. I always go to a mate's place as he always bakes a dirty great turkey in his Weber and cooks up piles of hot dogs.
I usually take beer, as he insists on serving people that bloody Budweiser stuff (which is OK once you're drunk. Very drunk).
I also always take the special "sliding doors" US flag I had made, which has a Union Jack in the corner instead of the stars. It's the one they would have had had history been kinder to them all those years ago. He hangs it up next to the other one for a day.
32 - Clavos
"sliding doors"??
33 - STM
Clav: Haven't you seen Sliding Doors, that Gwyneth Paltrow movie where two different scenarios are presented for her life, depending on what course of action she takes. Literally, the title revolves around the sliding door of a train in London, and the path the heroine chooses. Good stuff.
Just imagine, as I say, the result for America had history been kinder to her all those years ago:)
34 - Clavos
Just imagine, as I say, the result for America had history been kinder to her all those years ago
Ahhh, Stan.
Just because you've proved yourself to be such a fair dinkum mate, I'll let that slide by without skewering you in the manner in which you so richly deserve.
But don't push it. :>)
35 - Clavos
And you're still "thricing", mate...
36 - STM
BTW, I've just realised MBD is a total imbecile, rather than just an imbecile.
37 - Sisyphus
"Moslem foot baths installed in the Kansas City Airport..."
Foot baths at the airport? What do you have against clean feet? There are chapels installed in most major airports, too. I don't pray in airport chapels but neither do I begrudge anyone who does. American culture -- every modern culture -- is continually changing, evolving. It cannot be preserved like some ancient relic because to do so would kill it. And besides, culture is a two-way street. For example, you'll likely find a Starbucks or Pizza Hut in major airports of Saudi Arabia. And I'm sure that a few Saudis are as bothered by the American cultural invasion into their home as some Americans are bothered by Muslim foot baths in the Kansas City airport.
38 - STM
Yeah, I agree. It's no big deal. America is bigger than that.
39 - Jerry
I'd rather have foot baths than blood baths, I guess we should succumb to their demands.
40 - Dr Dreadful
BTW, I've just realised MBD is a total imbecile, rather than just an imbecile.
Whatever gave you that impression?
41 - Dr Dreadful
"Sliding Doors"...
Good movie. I think I need to buy the DVD, having accidentally recorded over my wife's VHS copy.
Anyway. (Stay on topic, Doc.) I found a really great book a couple of months ago called "What If...?" It's a collection of hundreds of different essays by distinguished historians looking at what they think might have happened if certain tipping points of history had gone a different way. For instance, what if the Greeks hadn't won at Salamis? What if Ogadai Khan hadn't croaked just as the Mongol hordes were poised to flatten Europe? What if Drake hadn't trashed the Spanish Armada? What if Lee's "lost order" hadn't been lost?
And yes, Stan, what if Washington hadn't had such incredible good luck with the weather, hadn't managed to sneak his army away from Brooklyn Heights and that snazzy Union Jack got to stay on the American flag? (That's just one scenario. The book does point out that there were so many points at which the War of Independence could have gone another way that it boggles the mind.)
Sliding doors indeed.
42 - Zedd
On the issue of diversity, since the enormous influx of Mexican illegal immigrants, diversity has been compromised more than any time in our history.
The percentages if increase of immigrating groups is significantly tilted.
Mexican illegal immigration is not enhancing diversity in America, its diminishing it.
43 - Zedd
Selwyn
Your premise is that what makes America good is the Western component. That is an unconsidered conclusion.
What Makes America great is the the talent and diversity from all over the world that has hit these shores.
How many Jewish scientist have promoted this country's sciences? How many Asians are now propelling us to another level scientifically. We get to be number one at the olympics not be cause of the Western contribution. We get to be best in entertainment not because of the West. We are good because we have some of the best who persue our membership.
44 - Dr Dreadful
Mexican illegal immigration is not enhancing diversity in America, its diminishing it.
Not necessarily. You're making the mistake of looking at Mexicans as a homogenous group, when in fact there's a surprising amount of ethnic and cultural diversity.
Case in point: my wife works in a hospital in an area where there is a significant amount of Latino immigration. Several times she has addressed a Hispanic-looking patient in Spanish, only to be met with blank looks. Turned out the patients knew no Spanish. They spoke Mayan, Nahuatl or some other native language.
45 - Zedd
Dr
I have lived in TX for over 30yrs and have never encountered a person who speaks a Native American language exclusively. That was a fluke.
What I meant by my statement is that we had Brits, various Africans, Chinese and Japanese then German, Irish, Italians, Polish then Cubans, Koreans, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Laotians, along with a steady influx of Mexicans. What we have now is an extreme influx of ONE group. The variance between the levels of immigration was not that great. The education level of this enormous group is also problematic. While the slums of the last century contained the poor and uneducated, there were also great scientists and artists who we benefited from. From Asian and late African immigrants, the educated class tended to immigrate.
46 - Dave Nalle
I have lived in TX for over 30yrs and have never encountered a person who speaks a Native American language exclusively. That was a fluke.
There is no one in Texas who is native to the state who speaks a native American language either exclusively or at all unless they learned it in an academic setting. All native tribes in Texas were forcibly removed from the state in 1889 and since that time only non-tribal individuals and very recently a small number of tribal groups have moved into the state. There were no recognized tribal lands in Texas until the 1980s when several tribes from outside the state bought small amounts of land and subsequently sued to have them recognized.
Dave
47 - Clavos
Dave,
She's erroneously referring to indigenous Mexicans as Native Americans, in response to Dr. D's point in his comment #44.
48 - Clavos
There are indigenous groups in Mexico which do not speak Spanish; e.g.: the Tarahumaras in Chihuahua. There are others in both Northern and Southern Mexico.
49 - Dave Nalle
Just another example of why the term 'native american' is so damned ambiguous.
Dave
50 - Clavos
And incorrect to boot, since they too, came from elsewhere (though long before Europeans).
There actually are NO "native americans". The Americas were the last continents to be settled by human beings, and EVERYONE came from elsewhere, primarily Asia.
51 - Michael J. West
It's not that I WANT to call this article "bigoted from start to finish"...
...it's just that the English language contains no descriptive phrase that is more accurate.
52 - MCH
"Just another example of why the term 'native american' is so damned ambiguous."
- Dave Nalle
Not nearly as ambiguous as the term "indian", Nalle, since Columbus thought he'd landed in India.
----------------------------------
"And incorrect to boot, since they too, came from elsewhere..."
- Clavos
I think 13,000 years is long enough to be considered native.
53 - Clavos
It's not that I WANT to call this article "bigoted from start to finish"...
...it's just that the English language contains no descriptive phrase that is more accurate.
Quoted for Truth.
Quite a few of the comments fit there, too.
54 - Dave Nalle
Not nearly as ambiguous as the term "indian", Nalle, since Columbus thought he'd landed in India.
Let's give Columbus a break. He didn't actually discover America, he discovered Cuba. And because he mistook it for Japan he called the people there Indians, not knowing that Japan wasn't part of India. See, it all makes sense.
The application of the term 'indians' to the inhabitants of north america came much later and was not really Columbus' fault.
I say we stick with what the Vikings called them and refer to them as 'skralings'.
Dave
55 - MCH
"I say we stick with what the Vikings called them and refer to them as 'skralings'."
I disagree, Nalle. Although it doesn't surprise that you would domineer and try to control what SOMEONE ELSE should be called.
Personally, I refer to a person as whatever they themselves prefer to be called. In my cousin's case, who is 11/16 Blackfoot, he prefers "Native American," so that's what I refer to him as.
56 - Michael J. West
In my cousin's case, who is 11/16 Blackfoot, he prefers "Native American," so that's what I refer to him as.
He doesn't prefer "Blackfoot?"
57 - Michael J. West
I read a Lakota author once who preferred to be called "Indian" over "Native American."
"I'm not thrilled that Columbus thought he was in India, but I can live with it," he said. "I'm just happy he didn't think he was in the Virgin Islands."
58 - Zedd
Clavos
You call them Indigenous Mexicans in Mexico, we call them Native Americans in America since they are native to the Americas.
Following your reasoning, no one is native to Europe or Asia. The only continent with natives is Africa.... sigh.
Ehhhm, Clavos indigenous means NATIVE. Blush.....
Are you under a lot of personal stress. You seem to be loosing it. Where's our anal kook. We miss him, sort off (snicker).
Off course everyone knows that there are people who still speak their native language in MEXICO. That is not the point of our discussion now is it Clav.
59 - Clavos
Zedd,
See my comment #60 here.
60 - Zedd
Clav
Got ya! No luv lost Bud.
Get some rest though. You were a little sloppy this round. Next time I will expect more smart alec comments from you. Discussionsn of a more personal nature have a way of draining you though.
Until next time.....
61 - Clavos
Re #60:
Please don't patronize me, Zedd.
62 - Dr Dreadful
Just to drop the proverbial lighted match into the grass:
I read somewhere that the term "Indians" to describe the native peoples of the Americas derives not from Columbus's mistaken belief that he'd reached India (he wasn't that much of an idiot and realized pretty quickly that wherever it was he'd landed, it wasn't the Indies), but from a corruption of the French word "indigène", meaning "native".
63 - Zedd
Clavos
I was very serious you goober.
What is wrong with you these days?
64 - Zedd
Dr.
Columbus was headed to the East, had never been there, he didn't know... Also why would he attribute a french word to describe those people at a politically competitive time instead of using a Spanish or Portuguese word? Would he not have called them indegene people instead if Indians?
65 - Clavos
The Spanish word is "indigenas" (plural) and "indigena" (singular), which is obviously from the same root as the English and French words.
Since Columbus was an Italian sailing under the patronage of Spain, it would have been unlikely that he would choose a Portuguese word.
66 - walt
Liberalism supporting the criminal...what else is new?
In case you missed it, CT just recently joined several other states where illegals can attend a college by paying the in-state tuition rate for that college...something a native born American cannot do.
67 - Zedd
Your back!!
68 - Dr Dreadful
There's one on every thread: the guy who wants to talk about eeevul librulz no matter what the topic.
69 - Zedd
These guys matured during a time when exaggeration and distortions of the "other side" were the only way to have political dialogue. A clear and pointed discussion on the state of the nation or world was/is not on the agenda. Just playing with the electorate's minds. Its those who were not versed in civic matters prior to this on slot that have absorbed the brainwashing the most.
They think they are discussing politics.
70 - Dave Nalle
To jump back to the issue of what to call people, every Indian I know - including my wife and the chief who lives around the corner - prefers to be referred to by the name of their tribe, not by a general term like 'indian' or 'native american'. There's no pride associated with something so meaningless as where your ancestors were born.
Nice to see that sarcasm continues to be utterly lost on MCH, btw.
Dave
71 - S.T.M
Zedd wrote: "These guys matured ... "
You got that one wrong, dear Zedd. We never did, you know we never did, and we've never claimed to have done so.
It's a gross untruth, and a dreadful slur on our collective dreadful* characters. We are growing old disgracefully, and my, isn't that a wonderful thing.
*apologies to the Doc.
72 - S.T.M
Doc wrote: "I read somewhere that the term "Indians" to describe the native peoples of the Americas derives not from Columbus's mistaken belief that he'd reached India ... ".
I reckon he did think that, but was gobsmacked when he discovered he couldn't get a decent vindaloo. My favourite Indian restaurant in Sydney, BTW: "Geronimo's". Fair dinkum.
Couldn't get away with that in the States, I bet.
73 - Clavos
I like the way Jimmy Buffett puts it:
"Growing older, but not up."
74 - S.T.M
That's what my wife reckons too.
75 - Clavos
Stan sez:
My favourite Indian restaurant in Sydney, BTW: "Geronimo's". Fair dinkum.
Couldn't get away with that in the States, I bet.
There's a Mexican restaurant in Atlanta that has a Mexican name, but is owned and staffed by Indians (the kind from Inja).
Pretty good food, but too much curry. :>)