There is no solution in sight, at least not a long term one. But a nice start would be to acknowledge and differentiate the right from wrong.
The international rules are clear about proportionate responses and immunity of civilians. Both in Iraq and in Lebanon and Gaza, United States and Israel fail to comply in an alarmingly regular basis. In both cases they use the word terrorism loosely and recklessly to justify their high handed violence.
Fundamentally the mistake lies elsewhere. It is in adhering to contorted reasons and beliefs to achieve goals by brute force that are tailor made for sustained diplomatic and pragmatic means.
The quagmire in Iraq was a creation of phony evidence. Israel believes the killing of three soldiers and kidnapping of two more by Hezbollah was a signal of an all out war against its existence. It was indeed a provocation, but hardly called for a seemingly limitless Israeli retaliation. If any, the continued assaults on Lebanese population has stripped the Israelis off any moral justification.
Let's be very clear about this. State sponsored indiscriminate excess against civilians is immoral, unjustified and plain wrong under any pretext. Unless a morally consistent approach is adopted by the U.S and Israel, persisting with the current methods of hypocrisy, unmatched arrogance backed by military actions in the states of Iraq and Lebanon will only escalate the mayhem in the Middle East.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dave Nalle
when the call of the day should have been an immediate ceasefire.
I'm sure there will be calls for a cease fire as soon as Hezbollah is utterly destroyed.
If any, the continued assaults on Lebanese population has stripped the Israelis off any moral justification.
How morally justified is Hezbollah after 24 years of attacks on Israel and on Lebanon and fort that matter on the United States. Prior to Al Qaeda's attack on the WTC Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group - over 500 counting the 241 they killed in the bombing of our embassy in Lebanon. They've killed hundred of Israelis, hundreds of Lebanese, and kidnapped more than 30 westerners including Terry Waite and Terry Anderson, plus they kidnapped and tortured to death US citizens William Buckley and William Higgins. Spare no tears for Hezbollah.
Dave
2 - gazelle
hezbollah was born when israel was occupying lebanon in the 80s. it was the emergence of a local military resistance to israeli atrocities, which recur - Qana is a symbol because its happened in the exacty same place before.
hezbollah is lebanon's genuine resistance movement. Any sympathy that israel had from moderate muslims and arabs for coexistence is now evaporated under rocket fire, as has any criticism of hezbollah tactics. opinion is radicalized.
now that the israelis are facing a tiny pinch of a resistance, they are screaming mad ! what a world.
best
3 - bilbo
Dave,
"when the call of the day should have been an immediate ceasefire.
I'm sure there will be calls for a cease fire as soon as Hezbollah is utterly destroyed."
What you're describing is not, by definition, a "cease-fire" (a cease-fire occurs when both sides of a conflict voluntarily terminate their ongoing aggression). More importantly, how many innocent civilian lives do you estimate will be lost in order to visit "utter destruction" upon Hezbollah?
I agree with the UN S.C. Res. 1559's requirement that Hezbollah must be disarmed, but why not push for an international force to achieve this end (in cooperation with the Lebanese govt.) rather than Israel going it alone?
"How morally justified is Hezbollah after 24 years of attacks on Israel and on Lebanon and fort that matter on the United States... Spare no tears for Hezbollah."
The original post does not claim Hezbollah enjoys any moral justification, nor does it claim that tears should be shed for this group. Rather, the tears are shed for innocent civilian life lost, which, as the article correctly points out, has occurred in a roughly 10:1 Israel-to-Hezbollah ratio.
-bilbo.
4 - DaveW
'Let's be very clear about this. State sponsored indiscriminate excess against civilians is immoral, unjustified and plain wrong under any pretext.'
I assume that this applies to Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Hizbollah as well?
Killing soldiers and kidnapping across a state border would be considered an act of war in any country. Why did Lebanon allow such an act by Hizbollah terrorists. The Lebanese government is now crying 'foul' after Israel have retaliated but they still launch daily attacks on Israel. Lebanon bares full responsibility for this tragic episode.
5 - Greg
"Lebanon bares full responsibility for this tragic episode."
I do not think Lebanon bears full responsibility. However, it is a bad situation when a resistance militia is more powerful than than the army of the government. It undermines the Lebanese authority and they are not in a position to expel Hezbollah from their midst, or to call for them to disarm (as they seem to be enjoying to social outreach in which Hezbollahs non-militant wings daily engage).
6 - Greg
" It was indeed a provocation, but hardly called for a seemingly limitless Israeli retaliation."
It was indeed a provocation but it has not been the only move offensively on the side of Hezbollah. 100 rockets a day are launched by Hezbollah into civillian centers in Israel. Just a point worth mentioning.
Israels objective in their response to this conflict is to dismantle Hezbollah. They probably did not realize the extent of their enemys arsenal and Israels daily airstrikes arent enough to take out rocket-launching infrastructure because these rockets are embedded deep under the ground in bunkers.
Israel has a right to defend itself. It is just a shame that civilians on both sides have to die. It is just a shame that Hezbollah is managing to survive.
7 - Greg
"If someone pinches you, a measured response is not chopping him into pieces with a chainsaw. At most you can punch but that would still be considered excessive."
This is not true. A punch is not considered excessive. Pinching back will not get this person to stop pinching you. In a war especially, you must show show your enemys no mercy. negotiations before you have them at your mercy are percieved as a sign of weakness. especially in the arab world. If Israel trades hundreds of prisoners for the captured soldiers as they did last time, the arabs see it as a victory and a successful formula for freeing their terrorist brethren from israeli cells
8 - Les Slater
From a military standpoint, any attack on a location that has already fired rockets, makes no sense.
The whole effectiveness of these rockets is they are easy to set up, fire, and then, get out of there.
What did they expect to hit?
The attack on that civilian refuge in Qana was a deliberate attempt to cause civillian casualties.
That's who Israel is.
9 - Dave Nalle
hezbollah is lebanon's genuine resistance movement.
Because Palestinians and Iranian Revolutionary Guard members are part of the normal population of Lebanon? Don't be ridiculous. Hezbollah are external invaders who will gladly kill the Lebanese as easily as Jews or Americans, as demonstrated by their efforts to draw fire onto innocent Lebanese civilians in this conflict.
Anyone who stands up for Hezbollah has no moral legitimacy in this discussion.
Dave
10 - Dave Nalle
The original post does not claim Hezbollah enjoys any moral justification, nor does it claim that tears should be shed for this group. Rather, the tears are shed for innocent civilian life lost, which, as the article correctly points out, has occurred in a roughly 10:1 Israel-to-Hezbollah ratio.
If the lives lost are Hezbollah, then they are by definition NOT civilian lives. They are either Hezbollah, or if they are not they are victims of Hezbollah, because there would be no Israeli attacks if Hezbollah had disarmed and dismanded as ordered by the UN. Therefore all responsibility rests on them.
The Lebanese government is now crying 'foul' after Israel have retaliated but they still launch daily attacks on Israel. Lebanon bares full responsibility for this tragic episode.
It's really not fair to blame the Lebanese government for this. They needed help to get rid of Hezbollah, and despite promises the UN did not provide it, as usual. Lebanon has only had an independent government for about a year. They're in no shape to deal with a powerful and entrenched enemy force like Hezbollah which won't hesitate to assassinate political leaders and massacre civilians. Believe me, there are plenty of people in Lebanon applauding Israel's efforts against Hezbollah, so long as the Israeli attacks stay in that area.
Dave
11 - Bliffle
What does 'proportionate' mean? If one considers the proportion of israelis with respect to the number of their sworn enemies in the ME, then may be 'proportionate' means that the israelis are entitled to kill 100 for every israeli killed.
Clearly, if israel is only allowed to kill one enemy for every israeli killed then simple attrition will destroy israel. Is that the muslim plan?
12 - Dean
Bliffle:
Welcome to the 6th Century.
13 - RUVY IN JERUSALEM
Gimme a couple of days to get my land line so I don't have to impose on someone else's computer...
Then watch out!
Later
14 - SFC SKI
It's sure a shame that the innocent, peace loving people can't enjoy a nice day of showing off their rocket collections with their neighbors without some Israeli plane bombing them.
15 - Dean
It's sure a shame that innocent, peace loving Lebanese children can't enjoy another day of life without Israeli planes bombing them into oblivion.
16 - RedTard
The terrorists use civilians and children as human shields. Because of left wing peacenik morons this is a successful strategy. At the first sign of civilian casualties they place all the blame on the country defending themselves rather than on the terrorists who set the situation up.
17 - Dave Nalle
War is not healthy for children and other living things...
Dave
18 - Dean
Redtard:
If you think you are "more patriotic" than those who do not support wars that have been going on it the Middle East, think again.
Your epithet of "left wing peacenik morons" is something only morons would believe.
Only real morons would lump all Americans who disagree with them as "left wing".
True American conservatives believe in what George Washington said in his Farewell Address.
Go read it and see if you can figure out what he said about "avoiding foreign entanglements."
19 - SFC SKI
Well, if the Lebanese government is so concerned with the well being of its citizens, why didn't it go and clean out Hizbollah's aresnals?
For that matteris the self styled heroes of Hizbollah truly cared about the Lebanese civilians, they would not store weapons in civilian homes or set up and fire rocket launchers in close proximity to civilians.
If Israel were to refrain from striking at Hizbollah's rockets (which target civilians) for fear of killing civilians, would Hizbollah take that into consideration and stop firing?
Why is it that you cannot condemn Hizbollah using the same measuring stick you apply to Israel?
20 - Dave Nalle
As I've said before, SKI, we have to give the Lebanese government a bit of a break on suppressing Hezbollah. They just aren't strong enough politically or militarily to push Hezbollah around yet.
Dave
21 - SFC SKI
I'll grant you that the Lebanese government is a bit weak right now, as well as having Hizbollah reps probably not supporting any action against Hizbollah, but that is not stopping Hizbollah from firing at Israelis. The UN is obviously not doing anything to stop Hizbollah, even though it's observers were sending reports that Hizbollah was emplacing weapons around its own observation points, where was the condemnation of Hizbollah in the UN councils? Syria and Iran both support Hizbollah, and they either condone Hizbollah's actions, at least in providing funding, weapons and trainig, as well as in the press, or they cannot control Hizbollah. In short, how else was Israel to counter the Hizbollah actions in ordr to keep its citizens, the ones a government is charged with protecting, by any other means?
22 - Dave Nalle
Iran and Syria have both publicly supported Hezbollah in the current situation. Iran did say that Iranians should not volunteer to go there and fight, but despite that they allowed several hundred to leave and head for Lebanon - fortunately the Turks arrested them at the Syrian border since they couldn't go through Iraq.
Dave
23 - Dean
SKI asks:
"Why is it that you cannot condemn Hizbollah using the same measuring stick you apply to Israel?"
Maybe it's because the Israel government uses precision laser-guided missiles to destroy buildings housing children.
Maybe it's because the Israeli government has allowed its soldiers to shoot adolescent boys between the eyes for throwing stones at 60-ton tanks.
24 - Greg
What actually happened at Qana is as follows:
Hezbollah terrorists set up rocket launchers at a building temporarily housing mostly women and children civilians.
Late at night, they fired over 10 rockets into Israel, then quickly darted from the vicinity of the building.
Israel conducted a military airstrike on the area where rockets had been fired from.The building did not collapse until 8 hrs later sending 50 something civilians to their death. Why do you think that none tried to escape in the 8 hrs they had? The terrorists wouldnt let them. They were ready to shoot who ever tried to escape and in the end set up a couple of bombs at the base of the building to tear it down.
This was something just reported recently in the Australian Sun
25 - Dean
"This was something just reported recently in the Australian Sun"
I looked for this without success. Where can it be found?