This morning's headline is clear: Iran Threatens the U.S. if Attacked. The Associated Press reports: "If the United States were to attack Iran, the country would respond by striking U.S. interests all over the world, Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Thursday."
Imagine that. What a horrible man and a horrible country. How dare they suggest that they have the right to retaliate if a foreign power challenges their sovereignty, security, and territory!
Yes, I know, they are horrible people. They have no tolerance for foreign troops amassed at their borders. They react with hostility to neighboring governments dancing to alternative political or religious views. The president of that nation and many of his supporters openly and officially condemn and marginalize certain minorities.
They kill people in the name of their god. He and his followers also routinely condemn those who do not believe in their version of god to eternal damnation. They surreptitiously plant operatives in other nations hoping to influence the politics and economics of those nations in their favor. They posture on the world stage with arrogance and self-assurance that they hold the higher moral ground.
Actually, I'm confused. Who are we talking about? Them or us?
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Baronius
Richard, please identify one religious war in which the US has participated.
2 - moonraven
Baloneyus:
Iraq is one religious war the US started, with God hopping around like a parrot on GWBush's shoulder....
3 - Richard Rothstein
moonraven already answered, but it's worth repeating: Iraq. Do you really think we'd be slaughtering Christian civilians?
4 - moonraven
However, I am not sure that your overall comparison is an apt one.
As someone who spends a fair amount of time in the Middle East each year--right next door to Iran, so to speak--I can say without question that I have a lot of respect for the president of Iran--and absolutely none for anyone in the US government.
5 - Richard Rothstein
moonraven? Are you expecting me to argue with your point? Don't hold your breath.
6 - moonraven
No, I am not expecting you to argue.
I am just going on record, as they say.
Holding my breath is not something I ever do....
7 - Baronius
Sigh.
Iraq invaded their Muslim neighbor Kuwait in 1990. The US and several other countries joined the war in defense of their ally. Iraq signed a cease-fire agreement in 1991 and proceeded to break its terms, with continual attacks on US and French aircraft, and obstacles to UN weapons inspection. Under international law, the 1990 war lasted until 2003 with the legal overthrow of the Baathist government.
The US is a secular state which does not forbid members of a religious group to be elected to office.
8 - Richard Rothstein
There are more Jews in the Iranian legislature than there are Muslims in our own Congress. There has never been a non-Christian in the White House. And how many self-admitted atheists are there in Congress?
9 - Dave Nalle
There are more Muslims in the Israeli Knesset than in our Congress, for that matter, Richard.
Dave
10 - Baronius
So what? That doesn't make the US a religious state. We don't have mandatory tithing, mandatory religious services, or religious oaths. We grant everyone the right to practice their religion and to speak about it freely. Heresy and blasphemy aren't crimes. Voting rights and land ownership are available to members of every religion. Religious leaders have one vote per person, the same as anyone else. We don't rely on any specific religious text for our legal system. We allow every religion to establish schools. We have secular and religious states (of every affiliation) as international allies, as trading partners, and as foes. We allow free travel to religious sites. We accept immigrants regardless of religion. I could list more.
11 - Baronius
Oh, what the heck. I think I will go on.
If we're a religious country, what denomination are we? There's never been a nation whose official religion was "Christianity - misc/unspecified". We've had a Catholic president, a couple of Quakers, and a bunch of Episcopalians. A Greek Orthodox nominee, and a few more Catholics. Our Supreme Court has a minority of Protestants, three Catholics, and two Jews.
That doesn't mean we're a Judeo-Christian nation. We're a Judeo-Christian population. Look at France and Mexico. Their populations didn't change (much) in religious beliefs, but there have been times when Christianity was a crime. The religion of the people isn't necessarily the religion of the government. The US is a secular state.
12 - D'oh
Baronius says - "The US is a secular state."
Quoted for Truth
13 - Dave Nalle
Do you really think we'd be slaughtering Christian civilians?
When civilians are accidentally killed in a war no one asks what religion they are, and there are a fair number of Christians in Iraq, and I'd bet money that some of them have been killed in the aftermath of the invasion. In fact, I know some have been targeted by terrorists there, and since I assume you blame all terrorist victims on the US, that means the US is slaughtering Christian civilians too, right?
Dave
14 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Baronius,
While it is fair to say that America is a secular state, it is fairer and more accurate to say that America is a secular state which a Christian base. The only official holidays in the United States which have anything to do with religion, are Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter. Sunday is excepted in the United States constitution as not being a business day (see the provision on the presidential veto in Article II of the constitution of 1789).
The phrase "the holidays" refers to Christmas or Easter in America. Everything and everyone else is parenthetical.
Sorry, just because you take all this for granted as being normal doesn't make it neutral.
In Israel, Saturday is the sabbath, the holidays refer to PessaH or the month of Tishrei, which has Rosh haShana, Yom Kippur and Sukkot.
And in Israel, everything and everybody else is parenthetical - just the way I like it. But by no means is Israel a religious country. Nevertheless, it is not neutral, just as America is not neutral.
And speaking of the sabbath, it arrives in a couple of minutes, so I'll see you all in 25 hours or so.
Shabbat Shalom,
Reuven
15 - moonraven
Baronius believes that immigrants are accepted regardless of religion.
And he also believes in the Easter Bunny.
How many recent muslim immigrants does he know? He doesn't say.
The muslim formerly known as Cat Stevens was not even allowed to ENTER the US--and he was not on that plane as a potential immigrant.
16 - Nancy
Isn't he still a US citizen?
17 - moonraven
Cat Stevens is a UK citizen, so far as I know.
18 - D'oh
A UK citizen, and was barred from entering the US for a "fatwah" issued by him against author Salman Rushdie over the book "the Satanic Verses".
The injunction has since been lifted.
19 - D'oh
Oh yes...and just to demonstrate the irony, and horror of someone who had changed due to religious influence...the same man who issued that fatwah perform the following...
the Tao of D'oh.
20 - Nancy
Well, if he's a non-US-citizen, then it's our perogative to keep anyone out for any reason we want to, just like the Brits or French or Chinese or whomever around the world can also bar non-citizens from entering if they like.
21 - D'oh
(to Nancy..the link is Cat Stevens performing the song "Peace Train", live.)
22 - Nancy
Don't know many current culture refs, sorry. What's it about (generally - don't need lyrics)? It's entirely possible he's innocuous & doesn't deserve it, D'oh, but if he's not a US citizen, even BushCo is within their rights to bar him. And you KNOW what I think of BushCo.
23 - D'oh
It's an old bit of culture ref from the 70's, Nancy..the title says it all , in a happy hippy kind of way, far different from Yusef Islam's fatwah against an author...hence the horror of the dichotomy.
Wasn't arguing about his being barred, just laying out some background for thought.
24 - Nancy
Oh...sorry. I'm not terribly hip on a lot of "pop" culture stuff. Never paid much attention to it, I'm afraid. It was all over my head.
25 - moonraven
d'oh,
Please provide the factual support for your contention about the form Cat Stevens.
It is my understanding that he was denied entry to the US based on hs being on a no-fly list because he had donated money to Islamic organizations.
Nancy, please do NOT start on your xenophobic anti-immigration rant again.