What makes us disagree about, say, tax policy? If we both possess basic common sense and a normal amount of compassion for the unfortunate - and let's assume we do - what makes you so sure a certain tax policy is beneficial to society, or fair, and me so sure that your policy is hurtful or unfair? Both of us can marshal some evidence to support our positions. But what is it that puts my argument over the top for me, and yours for you? What's our reasoning behind our opinions? And what are our feelings? Feelings are valid too - we're emotional creatures.
To take an even more divisive example, it's "common sense" to me that if a being can't survive outside its mother's body, it's not an individual, so a woman should have the right to end her pregnancy. And even if we do grant the fetus some rights, they obviously have to be subordinate to those of its mother, who is already a functional, independent human being.
I say "obviously" - but what that really means is, it's obvious to me. It's obviously not obvious to everyone. Some people believe that "life begins at conception" - that as soon as there is conception, there exists a new individual being with the full rights of any born person. But if that belief comes from a religious interpretation, which it usually does, wouldn't enshrining it in secular law be imposing your religious beliefs on me? Can't you understand that? I hope you can, because I've just explained the why behind my opinion.
On the other hand, if the law of the land allows abortion, and you believe abortion is murder, how can you help but oppose that law and want to change it? Can't I understand that? Sure I can, since you've explained why.
Let's try to understand. And without getting angry.
We may never agree on some issues, but if we lay out where our convictions come from, we ought to still be able to be civil to each other, get along, and maybe work towards, say, reducing the number of abortions by discouraging teen pregnancy. Or coming up with a tax policy most of us can live with.
It all starts with asking why.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Joanne Huspek
Good points.
Asking "why" is a lot more logical than trying to shout down the other guy. Of course, the whole thing depends on whether or not your person is LISTENING. That seems to be a lost art these days.
2 - Zedd
Jon,
I love the way you think.
I really do want to understand why it's assumed that the free market will correct everything? From my vantage point, people are self serving (even the most well meaning people). The notion of the market playing out like a lovely ballet, everyone having their turn in the sun is a beautiful notion but the truth is that people tend to be greedy. Because of the greed, some will act greedy and we will have the crisis that we are facing. The free market is not correcting it. Governments all over the world are bailing this financial institutions out. Am I missing something?
I want to know what makes people think that it is not our responsibility to one another (as a society) to provide free healthcare; that access to being well shouldn't be free. Why do people believe that people should be in the business of charging people to let them live?
I can't wrap my mind around these ideas. Perhaps someone will help me get their point of view.
3 - Jon Sobel
Zedd, that's exactly the sort of "Why" questions I think we should be asking. Let's see if we get some thoughtful answers.
4 - Lisa Solod Warren
here is one reason why I can't support Palin, for example and here is just one of the multitude of reasons why John McCain won't get my vote. If you follow the links, you will find more.
5 - Andy Marsh
Just out of curiousity...do you get your news from anywhere other than huffpo, nyt or msnbs? I'm curious, because that's where your links always lead to...
6 - Jon Sobel
It would be nice to get personal views on those links, in the spirit of "asking why." That Times blog was a pretty nifty summation of Palin's cronyism, and it suggests - but doesn't in any way prove - that it's worse than average. Let's not forget that cronyism is alive and well at all levels of government and in both parties.
7 - Lisa Solod Warren
Sure, Andy. The Washington Post (even though they consistently disappoint me), NBC, CBS, ABC, various shows on Air America, Harper's, The Atlantic, Salon, CNN, MSNBC. the BBC, NPR regularly, including their long talk shows, PBS. Lately, I have been following the Alaska papers online. I also read the WSJ from time to time.
When I can stomach it I love to laugh at Fox.
Oh!!! and I an a loyal follower of The Daily Show:)
If you follow the links, you will see that HuffPo gets ITS news from a variety of sources.
The article I quote from the Times has it sources well backed up. You can just follow the links.
And the HuffPo article provides the tapes of Poor Old McCain fumbling his way again......
and by the way, your prejudice against the New York Times being liberal, well, in the true sense of the word, it is. It IS the paper of record. It's good, solid reporting. And the winner of hundreds of Pulitzers. And it's been disproved over and over that it's a leftist paper. I know you and others like to think so, but it just ain't true.
8 - Lisa Solod Warren
Jon, the NYT had a long, very long front page piece on Sunday detailing her cronyism. It's been well documented in many places.
9 - Lisa Solod Warren
You know, Zedd, what I think it all comes down to really, is what we think our country is. Is it a country that is responsible to its people and for its people, or is it a country that allow capitalism, which i basically believe in--although not allowed to run free with no oversight or restriction--to run completely free, destroying whatever it sees fit in its wake? I think there ARE two Americas, and I think they see things in two different ways.
When Bush got on television, in the wake of the financial meltdown, and had the chutzpah to ask Americans to send money to the Hurrican victims in Texas, I almost blew a gasket. Americans are, individually, the most generous people in the world. And I just knew that, even in this time of enormous and horrible financial turmoil, most of them, even the very poor, would probably sent their last 5 or 10 bucks. But I was furious. How DARE he ask that? When he hadn't even said one word to calm the public about what had happened? AND waited another three days to do so!!
And then, in the next 3 days BILLIONS and BILLIONS of government money went toward bailing out greedy and stupid companies whose CEOS and employees made hundreds of millions of collars while the rest of the country not only lost their shirts but will wind up paying the bill for the bailout.
And FEMA fucked up again. And Bush sat there and asked us to send in money.
What's wrong with this picture, Zedd. I know what's wrong and you do, too.
That is the difference between the two Americas.
And that is WHY, Jon, I cannot and will not vote for any Republican.
10 - cuervodeluna
Hmmm: I wouldn't vote for EITHER candidate.
The US is a one-party system. The same folks--Big Oil and Big Guns--own both candidates.
It's Tweedledee and Tweedledum all over again.
11 - Lisa Solod Warren
hmmmm cuervo
not quite true
12 - cuervodeluna
Instead of calling me a liar, maybe you should ask WHY I think the way I do?
Even though I believe I made it quite clear that both products are owned and promted by the same company.
13 - Baronius
Lisa, if I'm not mistaken, Cuervodeluna used to post here under the name Moonraven, until she was booted from the site for abusive comments. Agree with her or don't, she'll rain insults down on you. This thread is about the power of honest communication; you'll find that won't happen with Moonraven.
I realize that this comment seems over-the-top, but she really is that bad.
14 - troll
Baronius - cuervo's comments are valuable...give the past a rest
15 - cuervodeluna
Post 13 is a direct personal attack against ME.
Direct personal attacks against this Red Lady is why she went on the warpath here a couple of years ago.
A word to the wise....
16 - Baronius
Troll - Would that include the comment that Clavos' wife is faking paralysis in order to avoid sleeping with him? Never mind the past; look at comment #12, where she takes "not quite true" as someone calling her a liar?
17 - troll
...words have meaning - pay attention when dealing with folks who might take them seriously
18 - cuervodeluna
Telling someone that what they wrote is not quite true IS calling the person a liar.
There is no such thing as a little bit tue, nor a little bit false, nor a little bit pregnant.
There is only one reason I can think of why Baronius should be feeling personal rencor about a post made to SOMEONE ELSE many moons ago: and that's if Baronius is actually a clone of the someone else in question.
I believe I said before: a word to the wise.
19 - Jordan Richardson
There is only one reason I can think of why Baronius should be feeling personal rencor about a post made to SOMEONE ELSE many moons ago
Nonsense. I'd be pissed too if you said something like that to Clavos. It's a little something known as empathy....quite a good thing to have.
20 - troll
...or a friend
21 - cuervodeluna
Baronius seems not to have read the article that began this thread, and is just here to make personal attacks.
I suggest that he read the article in question.
22 - Jordan Richardson
cuervodeluna, is that a word to the wise?
23 - cuervodeluna
Considering that the whole brouhaha began 2 years ago when I was accused of sleeping with a Mexican gardener--which was clearly meant as a racist personal attack--I don't feel that empathy is a quality that most of the people on this site have.
YOU might also consider reading the article that this thread proceeds from, as I believe it is about something called EMPATHY.
24 - Lisa Solod Warren
Cuervo, What I mean was that the Dems are certainly not owned by the gun lobby which is what it sounded like you meant.
I have noticed that you are quick to assume when people disagree with you that they are calling you a liar.... And yes, there certainly are shades of truth.... it's called nuance. It's called the color gray. The world is not black and white.
That was certainly not what I wrote and certainly not my intention. Goodness.
25 - Cannonshop
Lisa...look at the eventual outcome...
"Ms. Cole said the extra time allowed the farmers to find new buyers, including a private creamery that recently opened near Wasilla with a federal grant. Meanwhile, the state has raised $2.9 million from the sale of property, equipment and inventory and is seeking to sell another parcel appraised at $1.3 million. "At the end of the day, farmers are still working, and that's a positive thing," Ms. Cole says."
Whole story HERE. I'd expect most Democrat governors would pursue similar actions, especially taking over from an administration as dirty and pervasive as the Murkowski regime.