Those poor, "deeply offended" radical Muslims--now who can really blame them for holding a Holocaust cartoon contest?
The recent attempts to placate Muslim demonstrators--and calls to "understand" how "deeply offensive" the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed are to Muslims-- frankly offends me to the point of fury. The reasons for this are—literally--graphically clear. The source of my rage is not hard to locate--it is readily available on websites which offer up the richly perverted tradition of antisemitic cartoons and televised antisemitic and anti-American propaganda disseminated throughout the Muslim world on a regular basis.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - mike
the problems with muslims is that they are trying to force people to do what they think is right. you can dictate it in lebanon, syria, iran or other places in middle east in the west we care less about your beliefs, just as we should not tell you what to believe. muhammed is not a prophet to us and we should show him no respect unless we wish to do so
27 - Imran
Richard:
Why do i picture u in a flood of tears crying while typing ure reply ...hm i dont know.
QUOTE
"......Has the West ever tried to intervene in any Muslim country and demand that its citizens give up that which is most precious and important to them...."
Yes Regime change Regime change Regime change saddam was a secular leader he was no islamist and ure boys game along and turned it in to a Shia state not that there is anything wrong with that but if in twenty years time Iran and Iraq become one and u dont like it...dont u dare go running to the UN to ligitamise a war!!!!
And in Algeria when the islamists took power and now that Hamas has taken power in Palestine ure saying change ure political stance ( although i agree that Hamas should renounce violence the fact that talks can only be held if Hamas changes a key policy even though they were elected by the people for maybe that very policy, so still the palestinians have no voice)
28 - Dave Nalle
So Imran, you're saying that Saddam was precious to the people of Islam? Despite the fact that he was a socialistic secularist? Come again?
Dave
29 - Gordon Hauptfleisch
just to squeeze a word in: excellent article, Elvira, well said. 'Nuff said.
30 - Imran
no im saying these are forced changes that have taken place due to the west, and therefore an outsider taking control of someone elses country and changing its politics!
Saddam was a tyrant but we dont know if he would ever have killed the number of people that have died in the war to win the hearts and minds of the iraqi's.
Maybe next time the hearts and minds need to be won semi-depleted uranium should be put on the backburner...it kind of breaks the ice in a way thats rather detrimental to your hosts health!
31 - Dave Nalle
Imran, are you at all familiar with what has gone on in Iraq? Your last comment would suggest that you aren't. The political change in Iraq has been merely to remove Saddam and then let the Iraqis pick their own government. That's not the same as forcing an unwanted government on them.
Saddam killed an average of 1000 people a month during the course of his regime. Based on that he likely would have killed slightly more than have died as a result of the war in Iraq during the same period - and the people would not be free.
As for the DU issue, it's a non-starter. UN studies have shown that for DU to be dangerous it needs to be directly ingested or injected into the bloodstream. If you're going to eat an artillery shell you've got bigger problems than the DU.
Dave
32 - Imran
1000 people a month...dave please ! i aint even gonna entertain that figure which master of spin concocted that figure! if they had said it was 1165 on average would u still have believed them?...did u believe them when they said there were WMD's that could be readied in 45 mins?...did u believe those texans when they saw the space ship with little green men?..did u belive them when they said the world was made in six days?...
Injested well why dont you boys have ureself a party out there and invite some of those good folkes that went out there to kick the terrorists out of Kuwait and see why they are suffering from all the shit there suffering from?
well does getting one of those shells up ure jacksie qualify as injestion or injection its got me stumped.
Hell if Uraniums so safe why cant Iran have it!
33 - Imran
over and out!
34 - Dave Nalle
Imran, you can come up with that figure yourself. Just add up all the people killed by Saddam and divide the total by the number of months he was in power. The number is actually slightly higher than 1000, but I rounded it off. Oh, and it doesn't include casualties directly related to the war with Iran or the first and second Gulf War. It's just civilian casualties.
Dave
35 - Richard Brodie
Imran: Why do i picture u in a flood of tears crying while typing ure reply ...hm i dont know.
I suggest that you do two things:
1. Take the high road of refraining from making stupid personal innuendos like this.
2. Learn some basic English spellings if you want to participate on an English language discussion board.
a. The word "i" is always capitalized, like this: "I".
b. The second person personal pronoun is spelled "you", not "u".
c. The second person possessive is "your", not "ure".
Now, since you bring up the subject of regime change. I think this was a very mistaken tactic on our part. You are probably right about Iraq eventually voting democracy out, and establishing Sharia law in its place, which will be much worse for them, and for the West, than Saddam Hussein. It will prove to have been a tragic waste of young American lives, even though, as Dave points out, the net loss of Iraqi life from collateral casualities occasioned by our futile attempt to introduce some sanity into the Arab mind, will probably not be much different than the number of lives that would have been lost in the same period of time, if Hussein has been left in power.
Terrorism could be immediately stopped, without any more loss of life on EITHER side, the same way loss of life was avoided during the Cold War. "Freezing" the War on Terror would require the same deterrent that kept the Soviets from thinking about lauching attacks against the United States. I am speaking of course of the policy of "Mutual Assured Destruction."
We must make it absolutely clear to the Muslim mind, that we will not tolerate so much as ONE MORE Islamic terrorist attack on American soil or on the soil of any of our Allies. Otherwise Mecca will be turned into a radioactive sea of glass - followed by city after Arab city as long as such attacks continue.
This will of course be said anticipating that such actions will never be necessary, but with absolute assurance that they will be carried out if we are provoked.
36 - Muhammad Rahim
"It's just civilian casualties."
You want to really talk about the civilian casualties? like all those civilians that were VAPORIZED in Japan by the only outlaw nation to ever use an ATOM bomb on NoN-CoMbAtAnTs!
37 - Muhammad Rahim
"Otherwise Mecca will be turned into a radioactive sea of glass - followed by city after Arab city"
if that's not terrorism, then what is?
A terrorist is a terrorist,some use shoe-bombs, some use plane-bombs and some use A-bombs. The US gov't is indeed a terrorist nation.
38 - Muhammad Rahim
But I've got news for you...........
When you drop your load on Mecca, the Holy birthplace of Muhammad(pbuh)..........ALLAH will drop HIS load on you and you WILL then KNOW the HE IS REAL!!!
That's not a threat.........IT'S A PROMISE!
39 - Richard Brodie
"It's just civilian casualties."
Whose quote is that?
all those civilians that were VAPORIZED in Japan
The total number of casualites from those explosions was 199,000 (135,000 in Hiroshima and 64,000 in Nagasaki) If those two bombs had not forced the Japanese government to surrender, tens of millions would have been killed in the imminent invasion of the Japanese mainland.
War is hell. But THEY attacked us first, and a couple of hundred thousand VAPORIZED is a lot better than millions dying, many in probably much more painful ways.
So don't give me any nore of your bullshit about America being an "Outlaw Nation" for doing something that saved millions of lives.
40 - Dave Nalle
The quote is from me, taken out of context and used to express exactly the opposite of what I intended. I'm coming to think that Muhammad Rahim is the arabic spelling of 'troll'.
Dave
41 - Muhammad Rahim
"War is hell. But THEY attacked us first, and a couple of hundred thousand VAPORIZED is a lot better than millions dying, many in probably much more painful ways."
terrorist always have a way of justifying their Murder of civilians. Wrong as it was, they attacked the military warships and bases at Pearl Harbor. They didn't VAPORIZE american civilians by the tens of thousands with an ATOM bomb!
saved millions of lives........hahaha. I wonder who's next of the US's list of being saved!
Damn hypocrites!
42 - Muhammad Rahim
Just remember what i said in #38...... when you all decide to "SAVE" millions of muslims in Mecca!
That will be one of the biggest mis-calculations in history!
somebody else will be drawing cartoons!
43 - Elvira Black
Thanks to everyone for the comments. I'd like to once again address the main point of my post here, however--namely, the antisemitic propaganda and cartoons which are widely disseminated in the Arabic world--seemingly with nary a peep of protest or outrage.
I am not out demonstrating, except with my keyboard. I am not calling for a ban on these images. In fact, I would like to see more people SEE these images and videos for themselves, as I don't think they are given much play in the mainstream media.
One of the reasons that unfettered free speech for all is so cherished in the US is because without it, you have the seeds for a dictatorship. If only one version of the "truth" is presented, how can people judge for themselves and debate freely as we are doing here?
As I've mentioned before, our country is deeply divided about our involvement in Iraq. If dissenters were not allowed to divert from the "party line," I shudder to think what would happen to our country.
We have two political parties which are in many ways very much at odds with each other, but we are free to speak our minds no matter which side of the fence we sit on--generally without fearing for our very lives.
We are also a nation of immigrants, and people from all nations and religions have taken advantage of the freedoms and opportunities available to them here. But those who come here cannot expect their adoptive country to obey their religious dictates.
What I see happening in the extremist Muslim world is the same mindset that besets some of our own more fundamentalist citizens here--the desire to impose their religious beliefs on others, and to demonize those who disagree with them.
In Muslim countries, there is no other viewpoint presented. The media are free to print the most outrageous lies; television stations are free to promote anti-Semitic propaganda without a murmur of protest--as those who might protest would fear for their lives.
But I say--show the propaganda and expose it for what it is. To hide one's head in the sand and deny the ugly reality is, to my mind, foolish and perhaps even disastrous.
Since there is separation of church and state in the US, no religious group may impose its dictates on the rest of the country. This is as it should be. I have seen some peaceful protests in front of the UN, but nothing like the chaos and violence that has been spreading like wildfire across the Muslim world.
I am sure that many Muslims deplore this violence, but this is like saying that many Europeans deplored anti-Semitism. By the time the goon squad took over, there was no choice or dissent permitted, and it was too late to do or say anything about it.
I think many young Muslims and even young children are fed the language of hate from birth on and are not given the opportunity to hear any other "truth." Is it any wonder they hate Jews with such a passion? Jews have always been a convenient scapegoat, which is my point here.
Again I'll ask: what did the Jews have to do with the Danish cartoons? And why a Holocaust cartoon contest? Why no furor over the direct affront to the Jewish religion (and to Christianity as well, since the Last Supper was also a Passover seder) when radical Islam declares that Jews drink blood during this sacred and beloved holiday?
Perhaps it is because we are not afraid of free speech, for starters. But I do think this issue is worthy of discussion and dissemination.
It looks like some more feedback has been added since I started this rather long comment, so I'll stop here.
PS to Gordon: Many thanks!
44 - KYS
Elvira,
Once again, a great post.
I've read recently that peaceful (for the most part) protests have been staged by Muslims in Denmark. This speaks volumes more to me than any threats the zealots make. Though I strongly side with freedom of the press, I am more willing to respect the concerns of those who would make a stand on peaceful grounds.
45 - Elvira Black
KYS: Thank you!
Yes, I don't think chanting "death to X,Y, Z" and setting fires to embassies is really the sane way to go. Freedom of expression cuts both ways, and exercising one's right to protest while threatening those who oppose your views with death doesn't sit too well with me.
Muhammad:
You said:
"somebody else will be drawing cartoons!"
My point is that "somebody else" already is and has been. Did you happen to read the post?
46 - Muhammad Rahim
Anti-semetic cartoons are just as wrong as anti-muslim or anti-christian cartoons.
The line that was crossed in this case is WHO the cartoon depicted. I've never seen a cartoon of Jesus sodomizing little boys......like so many catholic priest do! Jesus wasn't an evil sexual pervert so if you're going to draw him as such, it is highly offensive to not only christians, but also muslims. That why so many people are upset about the Muhammad cartoons. They crossed the line! The violence that some muslims have shown in response to this is wrong and unacceptable. It played right into the plot of the people behind the publishing and re-publishing by all the other european countries that did so. What is the motive behind attacking the founding father of ANY religion?
47 - gazelle
1. An Alternative Interpretation of the Bomber-Head
+ Muhammad Cartoon Interpreted - Satire
2. A Cool and Considered approach to the Cartoon Controversy
+ Passion For Freedom, Or Freedom Of Passion? - an argument
48 - Richard Brodie
Anti-semetic cartoons are just as wrong as anti-muslim or anti-christian cartoons.
No. Some anti-muslim and anti-christian cartoons are in bad taste. Others serve a perfectly legitimate satirical purpose.
Saying that all cartoons about religions and religious leaders are in the same category, and then labelling that category "wrong", is less than simple-minded. It's just plain infantile.
You of course enjoy the Freedom of Speech on this English language board, to express whatever infantile sentiments you want to. Perhaps you should try and come up with an anti-secular cartoon that lampoons non-religious people, or people who believe in the Freedom to publish cartoons critical of religious figures.
49 - Muhammad Rahim
yeah whatever............
but why don't you answer the question?
"What is the motive behind attacking the founding father of ANY religion?"
or is it because the creators of that garbage are the real ones that are "simple-minded"
50 - Elvira Black
Muhammad:
Freedom of speech means that "lines" can be "crossed" without resorting to violence and death threats. As I've said before, doesn't the depiction of Jews drinking blood on Passover cross some sort of religious "line?"
If every "offensive" expression of speech were to be thwarted, we would be left with no speech at all. In the case of Muslim extremists, it seems like a very Orwellian scenario--one in which the "truth" is a "lie" and vice versa. Only one version of the "truth"--one full of hatred and vile slander--is permitted. All others, apparently, are banned under threat of death.
Only with free speech can hatred and ignorance be exposed to the light of day and discussed openly. If one bans Nazis from demonstrating in the US, for example, one deprives our citizens of a chance to be aware that such hatred exists and to counter it with counter demonstrations or other direct responses in the press and/or blogosphere. This open exchange of ideas and opinions is as it should be.
Gazelle:
Thanks for the links--I will check out your posts.
Richard:
Well put.
51 - Richard Brodie
What is the motive behind attacking the founding father of ANY religion?
I know how you like to have one pat answer for everything, but unfortuantely there isn't any ONE motive applicable to all such attackers.
For atheists, the motive if because they think anyone who claimed Gabriel spoke to them is a big fat liar.
For people who belong to some other religion besides the one they are attacking, I imagine there are at least as many different motives as there are possible pairs of religions.
One can only speak for oneself. I come from what I regard as the most benevolent and rational religion in existence, Mormonism. Just like Islam we had a founding Prophet whom I love, but not with the same fanaticism that you love Mohammed (pbuh).
But Joseph Smith did not have the arrogance to set himself up as the "final" prophet. He did not say : "I'm the last prophet. There won't be any other prophets after me." Instead he taught that our Heavenly Father would continue to reveal his will to other successive prophets until the end of the world.
Like Mohammed, he was also a General. But his Nauvoo legion was only for the purpose of defending the Saints against persecution, unlike Mohammed who was an agressive conqueror, subjugator, force-convertor, and edradicator of other nations and cultures.
Joseph taught a polytheism. One of our hymns speaks of Kolob, which he identified as that star in our galaxy around which revolves the celestial planet where Elohim resides, the god who who is over this earth:
If you could get to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward with that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, through all eternity,
Find out the generation where Gods began to be?
Or see the grand beginning, where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation where Gods and matter end?
Methinks the Spirit whispers, "No man has found 'pure space',"
Nor seen the outside curtains, where nothing has a place.
The works of God continue, and worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; there is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; there is no end to race.
Mohammed taught of a god who would punish his children , for the crime of not deciding to believe in his portrayal of Him, by causing them to literally burn alive forever, continually supplying them with fresh coats of skin to replace the last one burned off, so that they could be in eternal pain and torment. By contrast, Joseph taught that every person would receive a degree of glory, varying as sun, moon and stars vary in brightness, and that if you could get a glimpse of even the lowest of these kingdoms of glory, you would be tempted to kill yourself just to get there.
It would be unthinkable for Mormonism ever to produce such a monstrosity as a suicide bomber. But I see that phenomenon as a very natural consequence of Islam, considering how in all respects it represents the malevolent antithesis of everything I admire in the teachings of my own Prophet. Hence, I find the bomb-turban cartoon very appropriate, but not nearly as funny as the one about running out of virgins.
52 - gazelle
Brodie posted:
Like Mohammed, he was also a General. But his Nauvoo legion was only for the purpose of defending the Saints against persecution, unlike Mohammed who was an agressive conqueror, subjugator, force-convertor, and edradicator of other nations and cultures.
And also:Mohammed taught of a god who would punish his children , for the crime of not deciding to believe in his portrayal of Him, by causing them to literally burn alive forever, continually supplying them with fresh coats of skin to replace the last one burned off, so that they could be in eternal pain and torment. By contrast, Joseph taught that every person would receive a degree of glory, varying as sun, moon and stars vary in brightness, and that if you could get a glimpse of even the lowest of these kingdoms of glory, you would be tempted to kill yourself just to get there.
This is news to me and reads like the National Enquirer of the Crusades.
If you go to any original sources, rather than propaganda, hagiography - that anyone writes - you will see that for Mohammad war was the last alternative and only to be strictly undertaken in defence. What happened after his death is different - there were wars of aggression which were purely political or expansionist - thats not the right spirit for islam - although some adhere to it wrongly.
'Muslims' are not Mohammad's 'children' - they are followers who submit only to the One God and none else. Mohammad is not a 'father', he is a man and messenger, for muslims. This is very important.
As for conceptions of hell - they are rather similar in the 'imaginations' of the three Abrahamic faiths - the concept of jahannum (same in arabic/hebrew) - but islam is softer - Jesus like - because it always allows for repentance, compassion and affirms Moses-like justice. Wo/man is not born 'in' sin, rather wo/man is the best among all creatures.
Muslims also believe in Joseph - Yusuf - who had half the beauty of the world - a characteristic muhammad shared with him, supposedly because the light that shone through him, especially the face - hence all the ruckus!
Need to go to sources!! not the angry crowd.
Wikipedia on Muhammad is neutral if insipid - not bad.
53 - sal m
this whole "i-know-you-are-but-what-am-i" response of the "muslim community" vis a vis the cartoon issue shows how intellectually stunted these people are...after all that they have been through, i'll bet the jews are really pissed off now that some muslims with the intellect of plankton are scribbling off some cartoons...what a joke.
54 - Dave Nalle
Sal, they learned the "i-know-you-are-but-what-am-i" defense from the American left. When you have nothing to stand on in your defense you always accuse the accuser. If you've committed a horendous genocide and someone points it out to you, counter with the fact that Americans killed Indians 130 years ago. It's the playground mentality that two wrongs make a right. Except that the truth is that gouging someone else's eye out doesn't actually make your lost eye grow back.
Dave
55 - Elvira Black
Richard and Gazelle:
Not being an expert in comparative religions, I will refrain from commenting on this issue, though the insights were appreciated...
Sal, you said:
" i'll bet the jews are really pissed off now that some muslims with the intellect of plankton are scribbling off some cartoons..."
Disturbing as it is, It's harder to get into as much of a lather about a situation that has been going on for so long...in other words, anti-semitic cartoons from the Muslim world are already legion.
As I also mentioned, I think a bully mentality (or "playground mentality," as Dave puts it) describes it pretty well...
56 - gazelle
elvira:
my pleasure.
plankton otoh process information intelligently hence evolve unlike other molecules
Adab أدب Humanism & the Renaissance
best
57 - Nancy
I think the 'Joseph' being referred to is a different Joseph: Mr. Brodie's Joseph is Joseph Smith of Palmyra, NY, born early 1800s; I believe the one Gazelle references is the biblical Joseph who ended up working for Pharoh 'way back when.
Religious takes on various founders are interesting, to say the least. As someone in one of these threads pointed out (not sure where, tho), frequently the person doing the slinging just feels that anyone who claims they talk to God has got to be a liar.
Case in point is Mr. Brodie's Joseph, who was (and to non-Mormons, still is) rather infamous during his lifetime & after for various contretemps with the law. Of course, Mormons see these legal problems from a different point of view than non-Mormons. Whether this stems from ignorance of the truth due to 'spin' practiced by the LDS church, or exaggeration and slander on the part of non-Mormons could be argued, has been, and still is. Anyway, it's an interesting case in religious perception. Islam is the same: from one point of view, Mohammad was a wise, peaceful leader, if taken in the context of his culture & times. Non-muslims have & do take him out of context, however, and charge him with banditry, waging war, etc.
58 - Elvira Black
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Nancy.
59 - Druxxx
I think all religions are wrong. I do believe in a higher power, I just don’t try to classify him/her/them/it. I see religion as an organized way to control people and not much more. Sure morality is important, but morality changes from religion to religion so who is to say which one is right. I think we have to create laws that use morality as a tool but are not in themselves “morals.” We don’t need religion to tell us that killing and steeling is bad.
For society to be as free as possible it must be as secular as possible with as much tolerance as possible. In a secular society you are free to believe it is wrong to drink alcohol for example. That does not give you the right to force that belief on everyone. I see no problem with people drinking alcohol as long as they are not harming others.
Speech has never been completely free. You can’t shout “fire” in a crowded building. You cannot print out right lies about someone. And you cannot reprint someone else’s copyrighted material without their permission.
The cartoons in question seem to pass all the limits we have on free speech. What should be a great part of western society, but seems to be loosing ground is the fight against the freedom to not be offended. If speech is to be as free as possible I should not be worried about offending people by what I write or draw. The funny thing about the reaction to the cartoons is that the reactions we are seeing are proving the cartoons to hold a good amount of truth.
The concept of freedom of speech is so the opposition cannot be silenced. Also there is the concept that words are just that, words, they cannot hurt you. Action causes hurt, not words. Being offended does not give you the right to take actions that hurt others.
Muslims have every right to be offended by the cartoons. I have every right to be offended when I see some Arab fanatic calling for the killing of American infidels. If I started killing random people of middle-eastern decent because I thought them to be crazy Muslims, I should be sent to jail for a long time.
We as a civilized society should be able to forgive and forget words or images. The thing we cannot do is forgive and forget the riots and damage done by the Muslim fanatics of the world. Actions speak louder then words. And we cannot live in fear that someone could use words or images to justify illegal actions. Another part of the civilized world is dealing with the consequences of our actions. A free world does not have consequences for mere words or images.
60 - elvira Black
Druxxx:
Beautifully, brilliantly put. Thank you.
61 - Bliffle
Muhammad: ".....ALLAH will drop HIS load on you and you WILL then KNOW the HE IS REAL!!!
That's not a threat.........IT'S A PROMISE!"
Are you making threats on gods behalf now? Isn't that a blasphemy? Isn't it a bit arrogant to presume to command god?
62 - gazelle
Nancy is right, i was thinking of the biblical Joseph - my mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.
63 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Elvira,
You wrote a nice rational post about how Arabs routinely smear our honor.
They will continue to smear our honor so long as we Jews are willing to let them get away with it. This goes for the pagans (nominal Christians) in Europe as well.
Brooklyn boy that I am, I learned a few interesting things from a Brooklyn Rabbi.
"If a man raises his hand to greet you greet him, but if he raises his hand to kill you, kill him first."
In other words, don't waste time talking - act. if you don't want to act, keep quiet and stay out of the way.
I've pointed out elsewhere that if we Jews in Israel reacted as Moslems did to the unceasing insults of a world that wishes we were dead - in spite of all of their fervent denials - no church or foreign embassy would still be standing in Israel, except or that of Nepal, India and Thailand. The mosques of the Circasians would be remain, the worship centers of the Druze, and that of the Baha'i. Everthing else would have been burned to the ground by now.
The time is long past to be reasonable in a world that wants us dead. And, Elvira, don't ever get this wrong. Between the Wahhabi on the one side, and the Vatican on the other, we Jews are in the gunsights.
I don't care how crazy that sounds to you. It's the truth. I don't care what "atheists" who think they know something say either. And Blog Critics is just chock full of them. The world they think is so permanent is on its way out.
That is why I have been silent on this issue.
There are more important things to worry about and pay attention to than cartoons and insults that are as old as Christianity. I've posted on the subjects, too. One dealt with the Iranian nuclear missile threat - the other with bird flu. Go check for comments. Either I'm the most boring writer this side of the Jordan, or the folks in the wide world are just blind.
64 - Elvira Black
Ruvy, I was hoping you'd stop by! As usual, you have a unique and interesting take on the topic at hand.
I have to say that I too am infuriated. As a Jew living in NYC, I often find it relatively easy to brush aside the issue of anti-semitism unless it's shoved in my face. And you can't get much more in your face than this whole cartoon debacle.
In a sense, I can understand the anti-Semite's point of view more readily than their apologists'. I see many photos and video clips of children being taught rabid hatred of the West and the Jews from infancy, so they don't even know any other "reality."
But everytime I hear someone say "But you have to understand...this is a terrible affront to Islam, etc etc" I feel like puking. I've always hated it when a "reasonable" "ally" or "observer" tries to be "fair" and "rational" about an obvious injustice to me or mine.
As far as comments--I've quickly discovered that "hot button" topics may generate a bunch of comments, but a certain percentage of the commenters have pre-programmed responses to the general topic, and sometimes make no finer distinctions as to the actual "slant" of the piece at hand. Hence a post that was specifically about virulently anti-Semitic cartoons and propaganda in the Arab world became muddied with bogus looking video links, disussions of "Zionism is not Anti-semitism," anti- American ranting, and various and sundry apologias and subterfuges. But there were some good points and information presented even with these--so I'm not "complaining" exactly either.
Meanwhile many wonderful posts get left by the wayside. I've found this to be the case for me too--less controversial posts can see much fewer or even no comments.
I'll check out the posts you mentioned. I did my own take of sorts on the nuke situation. I think a lot of people are in complete denial about the peril the world is in, and they don't want to be reminded of it.
In any case, the link to the nukish post is here in case anyone is interested.
65 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Elvira,
Nice to see that you are finally sounding pissed off. I looked at your post and left a comment (memento?) there on where the dangers lie for the United States, at least as I understand it. But most Americans are too addicted to the boob tube to think intelligently.
Elvira, I have to tell you that your best bet is to come here - you'll be safer here than in America when the shit hits the fan. Even the shithouse rat will be running for cover - and she won't find it.
It's my duty as a Jew to warn you of real danger to you. That warning has to go out to every other Jew reading Blog Critics. I'm deadly serious about this, even if those I warn laugh or think I'm nuts.
That doesn't matter to me. I have to look myself in the mirror in the mornings, and if I'm silent, I won't be able to. If you want, I'll send you a piece about this off-line. If other Jews reading are concerned, I'll send it to them also.
66 - Nancy
Ruvy, I hope you're wrong. I'm sorry you're only alerting Jews. Not everyone who's not a Jew is your enemy.
67 - Nancy
And no, you're not a boring writer, you know you aren't. I read your piece, but ... what is there to say after all that? The awful thing is, that almost directly after you posted your article, I started hearing news stories about someone in London reporting that Israel & the US are making plans to attack Iran, etc. All I can think is, 'oh cripes, here's the shit hitting the fan...'
68 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Nancy, please do not feel offended. The issue is not that everyone who is not Jewish is an enemy. The issue is that this country, Israel, is home for us. As bad as things will get, they will be better for Jews in the homeland.
69 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
And thanks for the kind words, Nancy. Shoulda put that first.
70 - Elvira Black
Ruvy:
If you have any info that's e-mailable, I'd very much like to peruse it, though I doubt I'll budge from NYC. And even if not, I'd enjoy hearing from you. My e-mail address is listed on my blog. I can't access yours due to limitatioins on my e-mail software.
Nancy:
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comments. I live in the most multicultural city in the world (or so I like to think) and most of the time just view people as people, and throughtly enjoy the diversity. It's just that when issues of anti-Semitism are broached, many folks just don't want to admit it's out there--or sometimes don't really give much of a shit if it is. And that's how evil regimes gain power: when we're--to paraphrase John Lennon-- busy making other plans.
71 - Nancy
Antisemitism is as rancid as any other unreasoning 'hate' of a group for no reason except they're different, be they Jews, Muslims, Chinese, or gays. Or even fundie Christians. All fundie Christians aren't obnoxious, either, as my neighbors (who are f.c.s) demonstrate amply by being lovely people who live their faith.
What kills me is the outrageousness of some of these anti-Jewish statements, like that thing about Jews using the blood of kids to celebrate some ceremony or other. Anyone who'd give credence to that has to be either so illiterate & ignorant they still use their front legs occasionally, or they're moronic, or they're too gullible to live. It's as stupid as people claiming the muslims want to take over the world. Maybe SOME muslims want to take over the world, but I doubt most do. Pat Robertson wants to take over the world; Dubya and Cheney want to take over the world; but I don't think most of the rest of us are that interested in running other people's lives for them. Well, actually I lie: Bill Gates might also want to take over the world.
72 - ss
This will be a long one, I apologize, but please read the whole thing.
The excerpt below is from a Danish politician, and, I assume, a Moslem, named Naser Khader. Unfortuneately Mr. Khader requires 24 hr protection from Danish police for voicing these opinions.
The ten commandments of Democracy
1. We must all separate politics and religion, and we must never place religion above the laws of democracy.
2. We must all respect that all people have equal rights regardless of sex, ethnicity, sexual orientation or religious beliefs.
3. No person must ever incite to hatred, and we must never allow hatred to enter our hearts.
4. No person must ever use or encourage violence " no matter how frustrated or wronged we feel, or how just our cause.
5. We must all make use of dialogue - always.
6. We must all show respect for the freedom of expression, also of those with whom we disagree the most.
7. No person can claim for themselves or assign to others a place apart, neither as superior persons, as inferior persons or as eternal victims.
8. We must all treat other people’s national and religious symbols as we wish them to treat ours " flag-burning and graffiti on churches, mosques and synagogues are insults that hinder dialogue and increase the repression of the other party.
9. We must all mind our manners in public. Public space is not a stage on which to vent one’s aggressions or to spread fear and hate, but should be a forum for visions and arguments, where the best must win support.
10. We must all stand up for our opponent if he or she is subjected to spiteful treatment.
The commandments were first voiced in a speech by Naser Khader in 2002.
If we appease the phony 'moderate Muslims', who want to take away our rights 'without violence', the non-Islamist dictatorships win, and we're screwed, and Khander and the Moslems he speaks for are screwed.
If we fail to see there are instigators in our own midsts, and we marginalize Naser Khander, and make Muslims like him appease us, then Hamas/Hezbollah/Salafists win, and we're screwed, and Khander and the Muslims he speaks for are screwed.
If we help Khander and treat him, and Muslims like him, AS EQUALS, and don't lump him in with the defectives because he's a Muslim, it will take a long time, but maybe, just maybe, this situation will improve.
Dave:
Maybe the invasion of Iraq was the best way to help the Khander's of the Muslim world. Then again, maybe it wasn't. Either way, if we decide the extremists have the ear of the Muslim world right now, and that's that, then for sure the war in Iraq was a waste.
Ruvy:
I like you, man, I have since you started posting here. But please read the part about no one being able to claim the mantle of eternal victimhood. Read it over and over till it really sinks in.
Nancy & Elvira:
I sort of assume you'd be in agreement with what Khander is saying. Look at how quickly voices like his on all sides have been silenced in this cartoon 'debate', and notice who screams loudest to drown them out. The Muslims do have more and more prominent examples, but it's not like we're short of instigators and provacatuers over here either.
Everyone who was for the war in Iraq 'because it's the only way to deal with Muslims' or against the war in Iraq 'because the Muslim culture can't handle freedom':
Bullshit.
73 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
ss,
I'm not positing the position of the eternal victim. In fact, generally, I feel the opposite. We Jews have to move beyond victimhood. When I talk of a world that wants us dead, I'm reflecting the Tana"kh - particularly the Books of Zecharia, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Joel and last but not least Jeremiah.
In short, these books posit that the world will come up against Jerusalem, even Judah would. Jeruslaem would be like a stone on everyone and armies would invade and gather in the Valley of G-d's Judgment (Emek Yehoshafat).
I happen to live just a few hundred meters from there.
I see these warnings developing in the headlines. Syria has threatened to use its missiles to attack us. These missiles likely have tips with poison gas - the stuff that Saddam Hussein sent out of the country six weeks before the Americans attacked.
Persia calls for our erasure from the map and has the missiles to attack us. Security analysts posit that two atomic bombs would be all it would take to destroy this country. There's more, but it's late and I'm tired and have a heavy day in front of me tomorrow.
To summarize:
G-d's Judgment is coming, and it ain't gonna be fun - not for us or for anyone else. And time's almost up for the world as we know it.
74 - Richard Brodie
G-d's Judgment is coming, and it ain't gonna be fun - not for us or for anyone else. And time's almost up for the world as we know it.
It doesn't have to be that way. We Americans don't have to sit around doing nothing preemptive, patiently waiting for our country to be suitcase-nuked, one city after another, until we're economically devastated, and half of us dead or dying of blast injuries and radiation poisoning - and the other half slowly starving to death in a nationwide equivalent of the Katrina aftermath multiplied a thousand fold.
Those nations who can make that scenario a reality, and who would like very much for us to allow them to do so, have clearly marked themselves with big, unmistakable red target X's, and I say it's time to make their physical surroundings and population levels appropriate to the their 7th Century ideals and mentalities.
75 - ss
Ruvy:
Alright. I forget sometimes that we have a radically different view of how the world works.
If you really can see the future in those ancient texts, I personally hope your seeing a mirage at the moment and your off be at least a few thousand years.