The recent attempts to placate Muslim demonstrators--and calls to "understand" how "deeply offensive" the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed are to Muslims-- frankly offends me to the point of fury. The reasons for this are—literally--graphically clear. The source of my rage is not hard to locate--it is readily available on websites which offer up the richly perverted tradition of antisemitic cartoons and televised antisemitic and anti-American propaganda disseminated throughout the Muslim world on a regular basis.
It seems to me that the West has been put in the position of the over-indulgent parent who is haplessly trying to placate an out of control bully. Anyone who's seen an adult trying to patiently deal with an irrational, screaming child who does not understand anything but what they want when they want it should be able to see the parallels here.
Muslim extremists do not speak the same language we do, and never will. They are not interested in fairness or consistency. The freedom and democracy we hold so dear are anathema to them, and so any attempt to appease them will just be seen as another sign of weakness on our part, aiding them in their determination to bend the whole world to their radically insane will. Fascism of any kind--religious or otherwise--is not about freedom, or equality, or fairness. Trying to reason with these fanatics is reminiscent of Europe's attempts to deal peaceably with Hitler in the 30s--with similar results.
Perhaps the most offensive aspect of this to me is the presumption that Muslim extremists have any right to control what other nations choose to publish. If they want to live in an oppressive hell of their own making, that's one thing. But to try to tell the rest of the world how to conduct themselves is beyond the pale--especially for those who emigrate to Western societies in order to enjoy the freedoms and opportunities available to them there.
But enough ranting and rambling--I'd like to cut to the chase with some examples of virulently anti-Semitic cartoons in the Muslim press and video clips of anti-Semitic lies disseminated to the Muslim people.
As the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs' website, which displays some of the more egregious examples of anti-Semitic cartoon stereotyping, explains it:
"The main recurrent motif in Arab cartoons concerning Israel is "the devilish Jew." This image conveys the idea that Jews behave like Nazis, kill children and love blood. The similarity to themes promulgated by the Nazis is evident. Many Arab cartoons praise suicide bombing or call for murder. The collective image of the Jews thus projected lays the groundwork for a possible genocide....
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - gazelle
1. MEMRI is not non-partisan - it is associated with the neocons, with a Likud inclination - so in no way neutral, buta propagand a machine. look at people in the about page
2. The cartoons are anti-zionist, not anti-semitic. The reason is israel's "Occupation" of Palestine, the forced displacement of palestinians, some into 50 year old camps!
Resolve that issue and many of these problems will disappear. this in no way equates with Der Sturmer propaganda, where the discrimination was against the jews, here the oppressed are the palestinians.
3. The Danish cartoons were about muhammad. the adversarial opposite of this are not the cartoons which 'ridicule' jews - but Moses, or Jesus. You will, of course, not find these because muslims revere jesus or moses and the rest of the prophets starting with adam, with special preference for muhammad as the final prophet. so anti-israel or anti-jewish cartoons are not the same as anti-muhammad ones.
4. the cartoon issue is not a freedom of speech issue - its been made out to be one - its an editorial policy issue, in the Danish domestic political environment where the right wing parties have been generating hate against foreigners. That's the real issue not the freedom to express or not express or think or not think.
best
2 - Dave Nalle
1. MEMRI is not non-partisan - it is associated with the neocons, with a Likud inclination - so in no way neutral, buta propagand a machine. look at people in the about page
I knew this was coming. Next we'll have people claiming that since the sources for the cartoons are Jewish groups the cartoons are forgeries made by jews to discredit the arab media.
2. The cartoons are anti-zionist, not anti-semitic.
Wrong. The subject-matter may be anti-zionist, but the stereotypical negative depiction of jews is clearly anti-semitic in the most classic sense.
The reason is israel's "Occupation" of Palestine, the forced displacement of palestinians, some into 50 year old camps!
Did you even look at the cartoons? Most of them had nothing to do with the Palestinian issue.
3. The Danish cartoons were about muhammad. the adversarial opposite of this are not the cartoons which 'ridicule' jews - but Moses, or Jesus. You will, of course, not find these because muslims revere jesus or moses and the rest of the prophets starting with adam, with special preference for muhammad as the final prophet. so anti-israel or anti-jewish cartoons are not the same as anti-muhammad ones.
Cartoons about Jesus would not be equivalent because the US and the various European nations are not 'Christian' nations. Mohammed was both a religious and a political figure and these cartoons target his political role, so cartoons with negative depictions of jews in general or Uncle Sam are exactly equivalent.
4. the cartoon issue is not a freedom of speech issue - its been made out to be one - its an editorial policy issue, in the Danish domestic political environment where the right wing parties have been generating hate against foreigners. That's the real issue not the freedom to express or not express or think or not think.
The right to set your own editorial policy IS freedom of speech.
Dave
3 - Elvira Black
Dave:
Magnificently put.
Gazelle:
Passsover is one of the most revered Jewish holidays. To assert that Jews drink the blood of children during Passover is a direct affront to the religion of Judaism.
What does denying the Holocaust have to do with Israel? That is an egregious lie and a slap in the face to the MILLIONS of Jews and non-Jews who perished during this shameful time.
The cartoon debacle goes way beyond being a religious issue, particularly at this point. Extremist groups have fanned the flames for their own political ends. In any case, there is no excuse for the mass rioting, arson, and even deaths which have become a consequence of this unholy mess.
The cartoons and videos cited are clearly anti-Semitic, vile, and inaccurate, to say the least.
4 - imran
sorry for asking all to look at the same website maybe the news of the world should be paying me to do this :
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/armyvideo.shtml
p.s. dont watch this video of troops beating Iraqi kids to a pulp if ure eating it may put u off ure food.
5 - Elvira Black
Imran:
Unless it is my computer, that had to be the worst quality video I've ever seen. I did not see what you claim is there.
The voiceover sounded totally phony as well.
Isn't the News of the World considered the National Inquirer of the UK?
6 - imran
Yep ure right aint nothing happening over in Iraq except Iraqi's killing US marines ( oh sorry am i allowed to say that) and soldiers handing out sweets to kids in order to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.
Elvira (what a great name) we dont have a paper that claims UFO sightings and shows men with two heads etc etc etc over here what we have are some papers which show pics of semi naked woman that a section of the population find offensive.
And thats all it is a paper that has a large sports section a couple of pics of semi-naked ladies and are normally 100% pro British.
How did u not see what i said was there?
im gonna go watch it again
7 - imran
P.s. if its the quality of the video that is now under scrutiny is it not about time that the beheadings in Iraq be looked into again?
Cuz believe me i didnt watch them too closely but they were more backstreet in Baghdad then Hollywood and i didnt here anyone rubbishing them!
(actually i couldnt watch them at all as i was ashamed of what these people were doing in the name of the religion i follow)
8 - Matthew T. Sussman
But Hitler killed Jews!
What does this have to do with the post?
9 - imran
things like this is what enrages muslims but nothing is done about it Hitler did kill Jews and i appreciate the fact that that was one of the biggest crimes is recent history, but the crime being commited today under our very noses and in our name as the civilized people of the west is what i am talking about
we cant do anything about Hitler now apart from remind our children never to allow anything like that to happen again, but we must take a step back as we are in danger missing the fact that similar acts( if not too a much smaller extent) are happening today and they are happening in the name of Justice and Peace when infact they are happening in order to fill the pockets of already rich beyond belief individuals.
10 - Elvira Black
Imran:
I appreciate your comments, but as Matthew points out, the war in Iraq is a whole 'nother cup of meat.
Many Americans are against, or ambivalent, about the war in Iraq. My focus here is specifically on anti-Semistism in the Muslim world.
I have never seen the videos of beheadings because I could not stomach them. It's like blood-porn. But I'll bet the video quality was superb for that, no? Or at least better than the clip you provided.
11 - gazelle
Hi
I said freedom of speech and beyond it freedom of thought are not at issue, not editorial freedom either. What is at issue definitely is the editorial policy, the editorial judgement.my other comments are adequate, except the main one. Dave Said:
The Freedom is not being criticised, the judgement is!
The right conclusion from this is not to restrict speech or thought or editorial policy/judgement - as you seem to be concluding from my remarks - but to criticize the editorial judgement - which is exactly what i am doing.
I would do the same if it was the naziDer Sturmer an arab papers, or an irani paper denying the holocaust. i would do the same if it were a southern paper defending slavery, or Danish paper trying to build an racist discriminatory fervour in denmark. Here's an email from a Dane:
So whatever religion or beliefs you hold think hard before you contribute to a racist society that can go in any direction. Tolerance is taking the toll.
best
12 - Imran
wow....
13 - Dave Nalle
Imran, I would advise against posting the off topic video link to too many threads or an editor is going to start deleting the comments.
As I said on the other one you posted it on, the video is completely impossible to make out and the voice over sounds faked after the fact. There's no discernable violence, just a couple of people being peacefully subdued. Hundreds of Arabs are treated worse than this every day at border crossings in Israel, and it certainly doesn't begin to compare with blowing up women and children as the terrorists do.
Gazelle: I said freedom of speech and beyond it freedom of thought are not at issue, not editorial freedom either. What is at issue definitely is the editorial policy, the editorial judgement.
The Freedom is not being criticised, the judgement is!
It's all part of the same thing. You can't differentiate the two. If you don't like the editorial choices a paper makes, don't buy it. It's a business, so that will ultimately do some harm to them.
Dave
14 - Imran
I think the anti-semitism by the muslims may be a reaction to Isreal's policy against the Palestinians and its strong ties with the very powerful big brother USA.
And this is wrong because as all muslims should not be accused of being supporters of suicide bombers all jews should not be blamed for the policy adopted by Isreal.
If we dont agree with Isreal we should do what many muslims have chosen to do with Denmark and stop buying or selling Danish products.
We should go to palestine and help our muslim brothers re-build their lives and stand on there own feet. we cant blame we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and start again just as the jews have had to do countless times in history.
I appreciate that i am sitting here in the plush suburbs of middle England (UK) tapping away at my laptop and have never heard a gun go off in my life never mind having lost families or limbs. but this is what i think is the way forward.
This theory would be given a massive boost if one or two prominent jews would come forward and admit that the policies adopted by isreal towards the palestinians are too heavy handed. just as many muslims have come out and repeatedly admitted that suicide bombing is a terrible thing.
15 - Richard Brodie
They would never have been able to imagine (in 1900), that large parts of Copenhagen and other cities in 2005 would be populated by people of a lower level of civilization. Bringing with them primitive and terrible customs like honour killing, forced marriage, halal butchery and blood revenge. That's exactly what's happening.
They forgot to mention gang rape of white Danish girls. The only fault I can find with your quote is that that these barbaric Muslim animals were dignified as belonging to ANY level of civilization: (from sharia.dk)
Living on the dole: Third-world immigrants - most of them Muslims from countries such as Turkey, Somalia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Iraq - constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending.
Engaging in crime: Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5,4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes.
Self-imposed isolation: Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane.
Importing unacceptable customs: Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of death - are one problem.
Another threat is to kill Muslims who convert out of Islam: One Kurdish convert to Christianity, who went public to explain why she had changed religion, felt the need to hide her face and conceal her identity, fearing for her life.
Fomenting anti-Semitism: Muslim violence threatens Denmark's approximately 6,000 Jews, who increasingly depend on police protection. Jewish parents were told by one school principal that she could not guarantee their children's safety and were advised to attend another institution. Anti-Israel marches have turned into anti-Jewish riots. One organization, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, openly calls on Muslims to "kill all Jews … wherever you find them."
Seeking Islamic law: Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim.
Thank God the Danes are finally awakening out of their multiculturalist stupor. Hopefully this is not coming too late for them to be able to save their country.
16 - imran
well if islamic law did rule over the Danes, then these rapist would be killed ( stoned to death), these forced marriages will become a thing of the past ( cultural rather then religious), and all this talk of killing the jews would stop cuz aint non of that crap written in the scriptures.
Some of these people that u describe are worse then the cartoonists themselves as what they are doing is muddying the name of Islam from the Inside.
But i feel that a true picture of the muslims from Denmark isnt being portrayed by ureself!
there is a saying here in the Uk which goes
"lies, damn lies and statistics"
Statistics can be twisted and turned to make things appear not exactly how they seem and the addition of one or two exagerated ones can also make the reader believe what is being said.
You must be aware Richard that the same evils that lead innocent men woman and children to commit suicide bombing missions against other innocent men women and children are showing in the tone of ure writing. Be carefull that who u talk to is actually telling u the truth and not just trying to convince u that the Far Right way is the right way...because we dont wanna read in our history books that the muslim holocaust started in Denmark in 2005 with the publications of inflammatory cartoons!!
And i dont wanna stop having Lurpak Butter on my Chuppatis for too long as i did like the taste!
17 - Bliffle
Imran:
"well if islamic law did rule over the Danes, then these rapist would be killed ( stoned to death), ..."
Actually, in Islamic countries the female victim is more likely to be stoned to death under a claim od "adultery".
"....these forced marriages will become a thing of the past ( cultural rather then religious), and all this talk of killing the jews would stop cuz aint non of that crap written in the scriptures."
Even so, muslims are committing these crimes. And they justify these crimes with Islam.
"You must be aware Richard that the same evils that lead innocent men woman and children to commit suicide bombing missions..."
NO homicide bombers are innocent. None.
18 - Imran
Richard here is an article for u please follow the link
http://www.counterpunch.org/itani02022006.html
Did u know its illegal to be anti-semitic in alot of european countries?
19 - Imran
Bliffle:
there u go, ure comments show the lack of braincells that occupy the space between ure two ears. Go take a nap and when u come back remind ureself that we are talking about what Islam actually teaches and not how it is interpreted as by those who wish to immoralize it. Over a sixth of the worlds population is muslim and many islamic countries had the vote for woman while in the west they were still considered 2nd class so dont gimme the far right crap that has brainwashed ure childish skull!
20 - Bliffle
Imran:
"well if islamic law did rule over the Danes, then these rapist would be killed ( stoned to death), ..."
What we see is that the VICTIM, not the perp is likely to get stoned under a pretext of adultery. Do you have evidence otherwise?
"...You must be aware Richard that the same evils that lead innocent men woman and children to commit suicide bombing missions against other innocent men women and children..."
NO suicide bombers are innocent.
21 - Imran
They are innocent in the same way u are innocent. They are sent out there brainwashed by the people that claim to have the answer to the problems they face and u are being brainwashed by radical far right groups that blame other groups of people for taking their jobs, woman etc etc etc
I wouldnt blame u if u hated muslims, i would just think some clever bastards have got in to ure head or he's so thick he thinks his life being crap is a direct result of muslims.
22 - Imran
Bliffle:
Evidence to prove that a totally fictional sentence that u just plucked out of thin air is false!
do u have any evidence to disprove that some Icelandic nomads dont roam iceland in miniskirts?
No! how surprising.
23 - mike
the anti-muslim bias is clearly wrong, there are many muslims who have much to contribute to the west. The problem is the choice of immigrants that europe had taken. Europeans had taken a large percentage of the rural muslims most backwards and uneducated. they had taken worthless drags from the villages in tunisia, algeria and morocco instead of taking professionals and the well educated. The solution is simple stop taking trash and concentrate on the worthy urban muslims
24 - Imran
Quote from Cherie Blair (prime minister Tony Blairs wife and high court solicitor)
"As long as young people feel they have got no hope but to blow themselves up you are never going to make progress."
Saying in effect that we have to make these young people believe that there is hope.
25 - Richard Brodie
from the article referenced by Imran: You can curse the Prophet of the Muslims at will and with total impunity. However, approach the holocaust at your own risks and perils if you do not include in your discussion the standard, ritualistic incantations about the six million Jewish victims of the European Nazis. There is a word for this in the English language: hypocrisy.
Well, to be techinically correct it is not "hypocrisy" (look up the definition of that English word - it means professing to be against something that you yourself engage in - and so hypocrisy would consist in professing to be against anti-Semitism while at the same time being anti-Semitic). But it most definitely is "inconsistency".
To make it a consitent policy, however, Freedom of Speech should not be FURTHER constricted by extending the ban on anti-Semitic speech to include Muslims. No. The correct policy is to do away with the anti-FreeSpeech ban against being able to say negative things about Jews.
Freedom of Speech means Freedom of Speech - the freedom to express any opinion, positive or negative, about any political OR RELIGIOUS ideology, movement, doctrine, policy, practice, founder, or leader. Freedom of Speech is the most fundamental of all the freedoms that Western Civilization is based upon.
In this regard, I suppose it occupies the same place for Western, secular societies, that reverence for Mohammed occupies for Islamic societies. Has the West ever tried to intervene in any Muslim country and demand that its citizens give up that which is most precious and important to them, namely their reverence and respect for Mohammed (pbuh)? Of course not, and I'm sure you know that you don't have to worry that the West would ever do that.
So have the decency to reciprocate that courtesy. Do not try to intervene in any Western country, and demand that ITS citizens give up that which is most precious and important to them, namely their reverence and respect for the principle of Freedom of Expression.
And don't just refrain from asking that we GIVE UP that principle. Don't even suggest that we need to modify it a little bit, or make it less absolute - just as we would never suggest that, while we think it's fine for you to revere your Prophet (pbuh), we nevertheless think that you are being a little too strict, and that you should not be quite so all-consumed and intense about it. Because that would be a boorish butting in to your affairs, which you would be perfectly justified in resenting - just as we in the West resent Muslims trying to dictate to us how they think we need to water down our Freedom of Speech.
What it boils down to is mutual civil respect. And that doesn't mean that we have to agree with, and only say positive things about each others' respective political and religious philosophies. I just means that we respect your right to live your lives however you want to in your own countries, and you respect ours.