Let's close as many overseas bases as we can, but let's do it for the right reasons, not because of the delusion that the US is an empire.
Again and again I run into people on the right and left sides of the political fringe who hold to the bizarre idea that the United States has some sort of international empire because we have troops deployed overseas. While I agree that we have far too many troops in other countries and could save a lot of money in these hard times by bringing some of them home, these deployments certainly don't seem to fit the characteristics you would expect of troops who are part of an international empire.…
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126 - roger nowosielski
I have a much worse episode (see my #122). The only thing is - it's still a new format and they can't jump on it as quickly as before.
Even H&C manages to squeak in now and then and post, under another name of course.
127 - roger nowosielski
You can't mean "f & m ..d," can you? That was meant as a metaphor.
128 - Ruvy
Let it go, Roger. It is not wise to suggest that a different commenter be ignored. Let it stand at that.
129 - roger nowosielski
Anyways, your response didn't really hit me. We just have different philosophies about life and women. All my relationships were great (considering the stage we were in) - each better than the next People grow out of those stages and move on. Better than stick with one another and be miserable.
So I am quite accomplished by now (like Frank Harris and all his loves). Besides, you shouldn't believe everything you hear on the net - not even from me.
Only three legal marriages (one of 'em shot-gun); but plenty of relationships (some lasting eight years or longer; others twice as long). I've always had women in my life, it was a full life, and I don't regret it one bit. (And I ain't talking of one night stands.) Those I can't even count.
So peace!
130 - roger nowosielski
OK. Case closed.
131 - roger nowosielski
Here's a link to Frank Harris.
132 - Bliffle
Of course the USA is an Empire, and has been for over 60 years. And that's not altogether a bad thing. Of course, we have excesses, just like any previous empire. The control-freaks go nuts because not everyone wants to fall in line behind their leadership, but that's the way it is with people.
They're only human.
But empires shake things up, they expose hidden cultures to the world, they create new values in commerce, they negotiate cultural difference by giving some good things and taking some good things. Of course, there are some bad things exchanged too, but hopefully they fall into disuse.
The Brits introduced cricket to south asia and improved cricket at the same time indians and pakistanis could learn how to play the games that built that empire.
The USA has done some good things, and some really malevolent stupid bad things, too.
After all, we're only human.
133 - Baronius
Whoa, this is odd. It seems that the commenters have failed to solve the problems of capitalism and human nature. I'm a little surprised at that; after all, there was such a flurry of conversation that you felt was necessary. You determined that working for pay is somehow beneath human dignity, and that the proper price for a good is something other than what the buyer and seller agree upon, but then it just fizzled out. And I've got to say, even though these are word-for-word the same conversations we've seen before, I thought that this time was going to see a breakthrough. I mean, once you've abolished human nature, the answers should just flow. But I'm sure that next week, after another article that isn't about capitalism and human nature, the exact same tangent will yield the answers we've been waiting for. Here's hoping!
134 - roger nowosielski
If you wish, I can resume.
135 - zingzing
alright.
136 - STM
Dave: "The key thing is that unlike the British or French we made no attempt to hold on to most of that territory. We liberated, cleaned the area up, put in puppet regimes and moved on, hopefully leaving people more free as a result."
Looks like more buying into that myth of American exceptionalism.
So what was the 50 years in The Philippines, under military government, then and the 100,000 Filipons killed fighting the US ... and they have issues with the notion that they've been left "more free".
I was there last year. A couple of astute academics told me that if they absolutely had to be colonised, they wished the British had stayed after capturing Luzon from the Spanish in the late 1700s.
That, largely, is because they look at the former colonies like HK, Malaysia and Singapore, which have the highest standards of living in the region in that south-east asia region. The Philippines is struggling on that score and depends on a lot of US aid to get by.
I think in general they are way better disposed to the US than they are to the Spanish and have some genuine affection for Americans but they do get annoyed with US terms like the The Philippine Insurrection, which actually led to the deaths of tens of thousands of Filpinos they say were fighting a war of independence against America.
That certainly looks like colonisation in my book. You can even see it in the mixture of buildings in downtown Manila. There is a definite American flavour to some of the old government buildings.
To their credit, they are very reverent towards the US war dead at the big US cemetery/memorial in Manila.
Having visited some of the Commonwealth gravesites in Europe, I found myself entranced there too. We were there for some hours (looking for people with our surnames, of which there were many even though we're not Yanks).
137 - Bliffle
Interesting comment, STM.
On memorial Day PBS ran a documentary about the many American cemeteries in foreign lands, especially Europe. After WW1 the US government commissioned 8 cemeteries for doughboys who died on European soil, employing the best artisans, stone cutters, etc., for the effort. Black Jack Pershing himself was in charge.
After WW2 I think 14 more were established.
Each dead soldier has his own plot, with a stone marker such as a cross or star.
These cemeteries are regularly visited by Americans and by local people.
138 - M a rk
Dave: We can change a lot of things, but we can't change human nature.
It seems that all arguments concerning ethics and economy trace back to this 'golden milestone'. What kind of evidence can you think of that would convince you that it is a false premiss?
139 - roger nowosielski
That's one reason, Mark, I'd rather cast my arguments without resorting to this elusive term. I can be talked about, and intelligently, in certain context - e.g., the educational framework - you get my meaning - but not in any general kind of sense like that. So used, it's only a cop-out or a buzz word.
BTW, read your article on BC (editorial policies) and totally concur. Nice writing style, focused, and penetrative. (Left a comment there.)
Do some more!
140 - Ma rk
(Hi Rog. To the extent that that article is readable, all kudos to Clavos and his editorial skills.)
141 - Baronius
STM, Britain did keep an interest in Hong Kong, Malaysia, and Singapore. That's because Britain is an empire. They only relinquished Hong Kong in 1997.
The difference between an empire and the US is the difference between a meaningful relationship and a one night stand. Britain gets to know their new colony and they eventually settle down together. The US wakes up next to a stranger, takes a quick shower, and leaves.
A rough analogy, I know. You can certainly argue that an empire does more good.
142 - roger nowosielski
Quite readable, Mark. And poignant.
I haven't read the long thread. Just wonder what the management response was. It'd be a nice policy to implement.
143 - m ark
They found the idea unnecessary. And readers generally feared that a heavy hand would result stifling rather than protecting free expression.
144 - roger nowosielski
Well, I'm all for responsible journalism whether in fact or opinion. Just hate to be subjected to OBVIOUS ideological biases (unsupported by sound and reasoned arguments). It's just a waste of time before you can even start getting down to cases. And more often than not, because of it you never do.
145 - STM
Baron: "The US wakes up next to a stranger, takes a quick shower, and leaves."
50 years of a US military government in The Philippines was more than a quick shower Baron, as was the occupation of Hawaii.
There are still some genuine American colonies dotted around the Pacific.
American Samoa is one obvious one but there are a couple more.
And what about Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands over the other side of the big pond.
Puerto Rico is nominally independent, but is still actually run as a commonwealth (like the old British dominions) from Washington.
Then there's the very strong American influence over much of central America.
True, they don't stack up to the number of former British colonies but my theory on that is that when the US was at the point of rivalling Britain in its ability to become a colonial power in the late 19th century, the rest of the world was starting to look askance at the practice and subsequently the colonial nations began to divest themselves of these colonies. It might have been a slow process, but it was starting to happen.
Of course, Americans themselves have been largely opposed to coloialism, but their government took them there nevertheless.
I just think they didn't tell you guys that you have been genuine colonisers.