Why have they picked this moment to anger millions of Muslims in the name of "freedom of speech"?
As ever with the media, it's timing and volume that have to be considered.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
The Muslim Cartoon "Controversy" - Comments Page 2
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - HK
Most people do not see the hypocrisy of the situation. The problem arose when a CHRISTIAN norwegian newspaper published the cartoons in the name of freedom of press. Right. Please show me a anti-christian cartoon that they have ever published? The other newspapers in europe published the cartoons in the spirit of freedom of press. Sure, like how europeans can talk and discuss the holocaust right now? There are laws in germany that will jail any one that even slightly criticizes anything the way the german government portrays the holocaust. I am NOT saying the holocaust didnt happen.. it DID happen and its one of those acts that shames me to call myself human at times.. My point is that the press is NOT free. Saying that the cartoons were printed to protect freedom of press is BS and its insulting to muslims. Heck, print those cartoons but then keep nothing sacred. Do not persecute some one who is a bigot, homophobe or anti-semitic. These laws were created because they were and are considered decent laws. I agree with those laws. Banning depiction of Muhammad should be part of those laws, or such laws should not exist. The problem isnt making fun of islam, the problem is creating an image of Muhammad- which is blasphemy to muslims. Such hypocrisy is not freedom of the press, it just shows the intolerance towards muslims, the racism that has been brewing in the West for years.. and its deplorable
27 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Chromatius,
I was trying for quite some time to pick up your true meaning in the article and your emphasis on timing. Finally at comment #21 we see your agenda - hauled from counterpunch.
If Jews burned the British Embassy for all the anti-Jewish trash their newspapers turn out, then you could whine about Jews erupting.
Pray that we don't erupt, Chromatius. We have plenty of reason to erupt and plenty of vengeance to take. Eighteen hundred years worth. When I read the crap you post from counterpunch, it only reminds me of how many countries and peoples we have reason to take vengeance for our blood shed or for relentless persecution - I'm not talking about some crappy little newspaper cartoon.
Let's give you the short list. These are just the countries that should be destroyed because of all the Jews they've murdered and persecuted over that 1,800 years. They are not listed in any particular order.
Poland,
The Vatican
Germany
Egypt
England
Lithuania
Ukraine
White Russia
Russia
Slovakia
Croatia
Latvia
Saudi Arabia
Spain
France
Yemen
Syria
Iraq
28 - Aaman
There is a response to this article at Desicritics with a few images
29 - Chromatius
For gazelle: spot on, I'd agree with that. But how has it happened? Is it just the ebbs and flows of collective consciousness, or could a few well placed individuals have encouraged and manipulated it?
The same kind of people who service the Bush agenda in America. (I'll have to define here cos Ruvy will otherwise assume I mean 'Jews'; hell, he probably will anyway) - the usual slew of neo-cons & profiteers, fellow travellers, enthusiasts and payrolled propagandists.
My question was just how many of these payrolled propagandists would constitute a critical mass to get this thing moving (the orchestrated proliferation of the cartoons across the European media) - I'd guess no more than five.
For Ruvy: one day we should have a public debate on these issues that doesn't withdraw behind those defenses. Otherwise we're storing up irrationality (and yes, violence) by not allowing rational, even and fair debate. For example: what about those angry and resentful American militia and survivalist types, with their very traditional sentiments about Judaism and global government?
I do believe American democracy has been subverted by influence peddlers, and AIPAC is merely one of the most successful of these. To be explicit here, the model has been rolled out into areas completely unrelated to the Jewish state, where it has proved equally as corrosive. Particularly by the Christian right, whose 'alliance' with Zionism is purely contingent, and based in deep, quite explicit racism and very traditional anti-Jewish sentiment.
I have to be honest, I also believe when we've arrived at a point that 'global capitalism' is considered mere code for 'Jewish conspiracy', and cause for the usual letter writing campaigns and influence wielding campaigns etc, we're screwed. And that is AIPAC's formal position.
Now to your list - the list of Muslim victims of European violence over 1500 years wouldn't actually be that much shorter, and would include many of the same names.
But, more immediately, can we also generate a list of incursions, invasions, assassinations, 'terror' attacks, destroyed futures etc that owe themselves, at least in part, to the activity of influence peddlers - especially allied with amoral profiteers and propagandists, militarists and deluded Christian zealots and millenialists? And what of the moral and political cost of the hypocrisy we must necessarily promote and endure?
And if we're using these lists to arrive at value judgements, can we please add a weighting factor for those events that occurred in only the last half a century, rather than over a couple of millennia? In a period where we flatter ourself on our improved level of knowledge, historical understanding, access to information and higher flown moral rhetoric?
And the real outcome of all this, everywhere, is the imposition of military rule on civilan populations.
30 - Chromatius
This is not about 'freedom of expression', which can only refer to legal relationships with the state. Which is not usually the focus of this discussion, except when people ask whether the government could or should have stopped publication.
31 - bjørn erik
I am from Norway and all you muslims out there who feel bad about the drawings. Why don't you just draw a picture with jesus or madonna or buddha or anyone with a nucleare missile up there ass or something and well call it a draw.
You only make a bad picture of yourself the way you are doing it now, is that so hard to see???
And to all you priests and mullahs who sit behind and steam up the hate. you make me remember how it was beeing a child again. "i'll kill you if you don't" grow up and show some of this good intensions you are so good at speaking of.
Of course many of this screaming people don't hardly now how to read and write so theire easy meat for a carismatic leader who doesn't want anything but a hole world following their footsteps and stop thinking for them self.
Religion was suppose to benefit the people of this world wasn't it?
I dare you stop burning flags and acting like children or i'll kill you ;-)
A smart norwegian (aksel sandemoset)once said: religion is sytematic fear and do nothing but damage
32 - selma
response to comment #32.
not all people choose to attack other religions. i wont hide that as a muslim i find other religions very strange, but that doesnt mean i will go around sounding my feeling to the people who believe in that very religion. tolerance is needed...from us muslims and all other religions and people. the cartoons are offensive to our religion, we are not asking for people to repress their feelings. it is just a call for those with negative comments about any religion or belief, to know the difference between freedom of speech and crossing the line. freedom of speech was meant to give a voice to people, to protect them from the government or any opposing positions...it was not meant to cause hatred among people. as a muslim i do not agree with all the calls to murder that have happening. i do not enjoy seeing my fellow muslims acting in extrems, but i also do not enjoy seeing people with other beliefs disrespecting my belief. i believe a boycott is called for, anything more than that is too much. islam does not support death or war, it is a peacful religion that unfortunately is misunderstood. i admit that the muslim extremists have given us that image, but i ugre people to read about our religion. it is a beautiful religion, and i am saddened that it has been ruined because of the acts of muslims who believe they are defending our beliefs while they are destroying our image.
33 - Muhammad Rahim
I would just like to add, Islam teaches the RESPECT for all of God's prophets and messengers. We believe in Muhammad(pbuh), Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah, Lot, Solomon. We beleive in the Men and Women of the Torah, Bible and Quran. Quran Sura #19 is given the name of Mary the mother of Jesus!
You will never find us insulting or disrespecting any of God's Messengers!
Muhammad(pbuh) was not a terrorist like some muslims have become, nor was Jesus a gay sexual child molester like MANY catholic priest has become!!! Free speach is one thing, inciting an entire religious community by isulting their Prophet is something entirely different. It was only done with the intent to cause hatred and violence.........and it suceeded!
34 - gracefulboomer
Well, Muhammed Rahim, I agree that the ultra-right wing Saudi sponsored Danish Islamic Imams who added three fake Mohammed cartoons to the 12 published by Jyllands-Posten and then claimed that the fakes were the newspapers had an agenda.
So much of an agenda, the Imans prepared a 43 page report, included three fake cartoons of Mohammed with the face of a pig, a second with a dog sodomizing a praying Muslim, and the third of the prophet as a pedophile.
The report was presented to the governments of Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
The three fake Mohammed cartoons were intentionally put in to rile up the famous or infamous 'Arab Street'
The original Mohammed cartoons were published last fall. Don't you wonder why the embassy burnings, the mass riots, the signs stating 'Bin Laden our Beloved, Denmark Must Be Blown Up' didn't occur until recently?
It is my hope that you will contact the Saudi and Egyptian embassies with your concerns and urge them to replace all those boycotted Danish products they pulled from their shelves.
This seems to be a good time to exercise freedom of speech, uh?
35 - Muhammad Rahim
Yeah thats very clever to try and shift the blame to someone else for the BS that was started by this Danish asshole! Don't try that. 3 added to 12 is the cause of the uproar? Yeah right. Why don't you acknowlege the truth. You never did address any of what my original post was. It is my hope that you will stop trying to excuse the ignorance of what your European friends are trying to do to our Religion and Prophet!!!
36 - Victor Plenty
European newspapers cannot harm the religion or the prophet of Islam in any way, no matter how many cartoons they choose to print.
What is now harming the religion of Islam is the foolish extremism of those who claim to be Muslims, but who fail to live up to the standard of tolerance their own Prophet has set for them.
Muhammad never condoned violence against those who ridiculed him, even when he was alive. The only legitimate use of force, then and now, is to defend the community against attackers who are themselves using physical violence. Those who advocate violence as a response to speech are the ones insulting the Prophet Muhammad, betraying the Muslim religion, and destroying the legacy of Islamic civilization.
37 - Aaman
Victor deserves Comment of the Week for #36
Haven't seen you on Desicritics yet, Victor:)
38 - gracefulboomer
I am not trying to shift 'blame', merely pointing out the obvious-real obvious visual difference- in the original Mohammed cartoons and the three fake cartoons that were added.
None of the controversy is BS is me.
The right to publish is never BS, the right I have to hold no religion higher than another (or to a different standard) is not BS, but a way of life for me.
The right I have of observing no religious tenent unless by my own choice is not BS to me.
I personally do not think either the editors or the illustrators of Jyllands- Posten are assholes.
Would you just take a minute to consider a little thought here-
Who benefits from this?
Perhaps the Iranian Hezbollah leader Nasrallah who suggested that if Muslims had killed Salman Rushdie- when Khomeini issued the fatwa- remember? that the west would have been so cowered, so intimidated that the cartoons would not have been published?
You must be aware of a nascent brave group of Arab and Persian journalists who are risking their lives publishing articles calling for broad reforms against the state controlled media in the theocratic and dictatorial countries of the MidEast.
What better way to clamp down on this group than in using these silly cartoons as a call for unity, a call for purification, and call to turn away from the decadent west and press freedom. What better time than now to squash this new movement?
The west didn't dis Mohammed because he is Mohammed, the west just can't be expected to hold Islamic beliefs.
The west skewers any and all... and also produces drop dead take your breath away art and literature.
I would never expect you to make the sign of the cross, dip your fingers in holy water, and recite any religious dogma that you don't believe in.
This right you have to worship differently than me is inherent in your humanity as a person, and one that is codified by my government.
Why would you expect me to deny that there are numerous representations of Mohammed throughout history, some are beautiful BTW, some have been commercialized, and some have been depicted by Muslims for Muslims.
What gives you the right to tell me to deny (my lying eyes?) ha ha
This just may be one of those intractable differences in which people will disagree.
But to me the real shame here, the real tragedy is that Arab leaders who have benefitted from western education remained silent when this could have been a teaching opportunity, explaining that non-Islamics can not be held to the same standards as Islamics.
If the Arab newspapers had printed reproductions of depictions of Mohammed in marble, wood carvings, Russian and Iranian iconography and explained that the
west is not ignorant of Mohammed but treats Mohammed like other figures of interest, and that some non-Arab Muslims have depicted Mohammed in art, then the impact of these cartoons would have been seen in context.
And this would not have infringed one damn bit on the Arab prohibition against Arabs depicting Mohammed.
Irony of ironies, there just may be an Iranian holding a religious icon of Mohammed out on the streets of Tehran chanting 'Death to America''Death to the Jews'
calling for Islamic solidarity while stepping on the Christian cross in the Danish flag put there for sh*t and giggles by people who incite rather than teach.
39 - joe 6-pack
this is nothing more than the muslim extremists, who are quickly becoming the mainstreamers, picking a fight. they are actually killing themselves through their own stupidity and ignorance (stampedes, etc.) while being all riled up about an article that was trying to make a point - not to degrade islam. islam degrades itself at this point, it needs no help.
40 - Richard Brodie
muslim extremists, who are quickly becoming the mainstreamers
"becoming"??? For too long the West has swallowed the left's PC party line that muslim "extremists" are just a noisy minority who have "hijacked" a "peaceful religion".
BULLSHIT.
The delerious fanatical mobs we've seen in the last few days in every major Muslim city across the globe have hopefully put THAT myth to rest forever.
41 - zed
I think you are all can not respect others religions. The democracy with no limit is an anarchy. And I would love to say that democracy is a box filled with shit!!!
42 - Muhammad Rahim
It's not about denying you the right to free speach. it's about respect of prophets and messengers of God that people hold dear, even if you don't believe in them.
What was the motive behind cartoons that insult Muhammad, Jesus, Moses....etc. Why? It was not intended to just make a damn cartoon!!! It was intended to start a war! No, I do not condone the violence that I see. I really wish that they were wise enough not to fall for the plot that satan intended when he spread the insulting images.
As for comment#40..... Islam is as peaceful as all the other religions. Muslims are no more violent than those Christian KKK that raped and killed my black people hear in America. But you don't find us drawing Jesus in a KKK hood do you?
How quickly we forget how violent white christians have been in America.....Hell, even slavery and lynchings were justified using the Bible!
43 - Muhammad Rahim
Hell, even slavery and lynchings were justified using the Bible! So what "myth" are you talking about?
Some of the most bloody and violent wars in history were started by so-called christians! What religion was "hijacked" when my people were hijacked from africa and de-humanized for over four hundred years?......that wasn't done by muslims. It was bible toting so-called christians.
So think before you blame an entire religion or Prophet for the actions of their professed followers. Remember what the KKK's religion is........CHRISTIANITY!
44 - Muhammad Rahim
When I was born 40 years ago, Blacks were still not allowed to ride in the front of the bus in this great "Christian" land of ours. We were still no-class citizens that were called three fifths of a human being!!!
Is that the teachings of Jesus? I don't think so. It wasn't that long ago. Not even a hundred years......so don't get to self righteous over other nations that are still lacking. Because racism is still alive and kicking in this great land of ours. Muslim nations have a lot of growing to do. But who gave the western world the authority to sit as judge over them with all the blood dripping from America and Europe???
45 - Richard Brodie
democracy is a box filled with shit!!!
That sentiment goes along real nicely with the placard carried a couple a of days ago by a rioting British Muslim:
TO HELL WITH FREEDOM"
I've been hoping for a long time, for the benefit of those who have been blinded by the Taquiya of propaganda organs like CAIR, that the true nature of Western Civilization's mortal enemy would be made this crystal clear for us right out of their own mouths.
46 - C
I would have never thought twice about those cartoons, no one takes that sort of thing seriously. I do think, however, that according to what the cartoons depict, and seeing the violent and deadly reactions of "protesters", it's not really protest anymore, it's just proving the cartoonist was somewhat correct. And who do they blame, the Danish people, or the Jews? They're going to protest religious cartoons they blame on the DANISH with Holocaust anti-JEW cartoons?!? And the group of Muslims responsible for these Holocaust cartoons expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for them? I had much respect for this religion before this happened, but the Muslim people's behavior in the middle east is what lets us see how "peaceful" this religion really is. I do think the cartoons were disrespectful, but why do they care? It doesn't affect their religion, or their walk of faith. I'm a Christian, and I cannot turn on the TV without seeing someone making fun of my Lord, Jesus Christ. But do I go ambushing the tv studios burning things and killing people in protest? No, because that's psychotic. You can't protest something that shows death and violence as a shadow over your religion, by going around and committing more death and violence, in the name of the religion!! It's not protest... it's just proving the cartoonist's point in the drawings. I know not all Muslims are this, but these people freaking out and turning to violence and death over the cartoons are nothing more than hypocrites, and honestly I think they just want the attention. I'm tired of hearing about all their violence. Bottom line is, no other religion does so much damage and death and violence in the name of their religion. So while the cartoons were insensitive, the middle eastern communities need to realize that some of the rest of the world DOES in fact see their religion as a connection to violence, and they should do something to STOP this, not enhance it. Complaining and throwing tantrums about what people think about you is weak and childish. Stop the violence, and people won't think you're violent.
And the cartoon... that was insensetive, and evil, and shouldn't have been published. Same with the Holocaust cartoons. Insensetive, evil, and you can't fight evil with more evil, if you want to be taken seriously.
47 - Me
Reposting what Bing said:
"Independent and proud.....
major newspapers in America have printed pictures of things like an art piece called piss christ in which a cross is submerged in a vat of urine and other things one might consider offensive to chrisitanity. but now they are refusing to print these other cartoons for fear of offending muslims.
Anyone who say's there isn't a double standard in America with which religions are ok to bash is a fucking moron."
I'd like to add... America has taken religious freedoms away, this country grew great while it was centered on God, and now the government is losing grasp of reality. America wants to take Christianity out of everything, but it's okay to have other religions dominate here. This is a joke... Give me a break. I graduated high school a few years ago, and I couldn't pray in school, but the Muslim kids could take their prayer time out any time they wanted to, and that was okay. This "religious freedom" is a joke... the United States offers freedom of religion, as long as you don't say or do anything Christian. So before the pissed of Muslims go off thinking the "western world" is against them, they need to educate themselves with the reality of the "western world." Their religion is actually one that gets respect here.
48 - Nancy
I've read this, too: that the really insulting cartoons are 3 that were most definitely not part of the original 12, and that the imams who started raising all the fuss refuse to reveal the source of these cartoons. It sounds to me like a case of the vast muslim public being manipulated by vicious & unscrupulous leaders intent on turning the ire of the public away from themselves and on to others. Just like Karl Rove here in the US manipulates the unthinking public for Dubya.
49 - Leigh
I voted for Dubya and I'd do it again!! but yes the cartoons suck... so does the middle eastern Muslim communities' bizzare reactions to the cartoons which prove violence and murder is in fact a problem within their religion. if it's not then they need to stop calling the name of their religion for this crazy and bizzare behavior. I think all they wanted was media attention, to take the negative attention in the media away from themselves and try to make people feel sorry for them. I applaude the cities and Muslims that protested in peace. The cartoons are gone now, and EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD understood it was one man's humor, no one else took the cartoons seriously, so it's just time for all of the protesters to worry about their own souls with their god and move on. WHO CARES what some cartoonist drew?! Someone needs to help these countries grow their economies so they will have other things in life to worry about and stress over. Those cartoons just weren't magic, and weren't powerful enough to affect them or their faith with their god, so it's hard for me to feel sorry for them. It didn't affect them. It was a joke between other people who AREN'T MUSLIMS. The Muslim communites in the middle east have cartoons about Jews already that run in their papers all the time. So really, they need to stop whining and do something to show us that our view of them being violent is wrong, instead of proving that it is in fact correct. Because that crazy violent behavior is what makes others not take them seriously. Just shows a bunch of HYPOCRITES...
By the way... it's ironic to know they have these anti-Jew cartoons... because in reality, Islam came out of Juddaism, as did Christianity. That's odd, don't you think? So next time they want to talk about lack of respect for religions... someone should remind them that they love insulting the founding roots of their own religion... daily.
50 - Me
No one should insult anyone else's religion, but that's not how life is. There are too many people in the world, and people will say things. Respect should be given, but if it's not, and you get offended, just ignore it. They were cartoons! It didn't hurt their lives at all, and it's a waste of their lives to focus on it. Religious biased cartoons are everywhere, you don't see other religions' folks running around creating chaos whenever something offensive is said or published. To be happy, you have to live your life for what makes you happy.
Welcome to the modern world... people say things behind your back. This has been happening to the rest of us for a long, long time.
We free speakers need to all try to remember to be respectful of others. We have free speech, and free print, but we should not sacrifice morals. Respect and equality are morals and responsibilities we should carry with our freedom and its priviledges.
51 - secularist
perhaps it is irrelevant that some consider the cartoons tacky or offensive since they are merely an expression of secular freedom which is blind to reglious sacred cows.
freedom is a key tenet of a secular society and it appears that our muslim friends and neighbors are incapable of policing their violent minority of exteremists
the militant minority continualy advocates and exercises violent means of protest spreading a distrust of the muslim populace throughout the west
a perpetuation and deepening of this division will in the end serve its own isolationist cause. The expense will not be of the militant minority but of the peace loving muslim majority who will likely lose thier hard earned western freedoms which will inevitably be taken from them out of fear
52 - Muhammad Rahim
Islam means to surrender yourself to the will of God. That didn't come out of Juddaism or Christianity. That is the original state of man before the fall of Adam. Islam=Submission to God's Will. There's over a billion Muslims in the world and the majority is not what you see on TV. Most of us are not violent and will not behave like that.
53 - Silas Kain
Dear God, could You make it Your will that we just chill out for once? All this fighting in Your name. Aren't You pissed off yet? At this stage, I'll take another flood. Perhaps a comet striking those kingdoms that need an attitude adjustment. Oh and God, while you're at it, would you tell Rev. Robertson to go pound sand?
54 - Bliffle
"As ever with the media, it's timing and volume that have to be considered.
Why have they picked this moment to anger millions of Muslims in the name of 'freedom of speech'? This moment to make it an 'issue' and drive it to the top of the news agenda?"
I think it was muslims who stirred up trouble. The cartoons, when originally published, didn't attract notice. But then, according to the muslim female Danish MP I just saw on DW TV, some muslim troublemakers went back to Egypt, etc., and started stirring up trouble there.
The source of the violence is in the muslim community and ME nations, not Danish newspapers.
55 - Chromatius
My point was really about the proliferation of reprints through European media outlets.
Juan Cole has a very good article on Salon with quite a bit of detail about which Arab and Muslim leaders are leveraging the issue and why.
56 - David M. Brown
I guess if there are umpteenzillion posts, riots and death threats about it, it's a "controversy." Ohmigod, free speech critical of Islamofascist rationales for murder stirring up more "controversy" from Islamofascist murderers and those who ally themselves with Islamofascist murderers. Omigod, more of these "quote marks."
57 - Bliffle
Muhamid: "Islam means to surrender yourself to the will of God. That didn't come out of Juddaism or Christianity. That is the original state of man before the fall of Adam."
Can you prove this assertion?
Somewhere else on BC, a muslim colleague of yours states that the obligation of free speech is that you be able to prove your assertions.
58 - Mark
I am getting really tired of people who keep telling us that Islam teaches "peace and love and respect". If that's the case, then who the fuck is blowing up school buses and restaurants in the name of Islam.
You'd think that all those peace-loving Muslims would get their asses out there and stop these creatures from perverting their religion. Why is that not happening? Why is it that every time some more by-standers get slaughtered, there is dancing in the streets?
What would your Prophet think of you?
59 - Chromatius
"secular freedom which is blind to reglious sacred cows" - how can it be blind to that it chooses to target?
60 - Mark
The European newspapers that re-printed the stupid cartoons jumped on an idiot bandwagon. The very start of this "controversy" is not a free speech issue, but an editing one.
The editor at the Danish paper, who approved the publishing of those cartoons, should have been fired because daily, mass-circulation newspapers should not be running things they know will be really offensive to any religious group.
The more fundamental issue here is that of immigration. If you are going to become a violent pain in the ass in your adopted country, you really should have stayed at away. It just seems ungrateful to go somewhere to improve your personal economic conditions, or get away from oppression, and then try to force your 4th Century sensibilities on the people who took you in, by setting things on fire & getting your old countrymen to help out with the riots over there.
Law of the land. In Europe, those cartoons are not illegal, just stupid. So suck it up, we all have to because stupidity is everywhere.
61 - Richard Brodie
daily, mass-circulation newspapers should not be running things they know will be really offensive to any religious group.
I suppose you also think that they should not be running things they know will be really offensive to any political group.
Religious ideologies (especially one like Islam which has such a large political component) are, if anything, even more in need of being pilloried with Free Speech than political ideologies!
62 - Mark
I suppose you also think that they should not be running things they know will be really offensive to any political group.
Not at all. My theory is that in order to be political, you have to be somewhat rational (not in a psychiatric sense, just that you might be able to at least "hear" other views & argue yours), to be religious, you just need to be breathing. And since all religions are based on an assumption, their followers are not, and don't need to be rational or considerate of any other point of view.
Oddly enough, for all the peace-loving fuzzy-wuzzy rhetoric, the organized religions are the root of all evil in the world.
63 - Richard Brodie
So if I understand you correctly, Mark, when you say papers SHOULDN'T be running religiously offensive stuff, that's just a piece of practical advice, not a desire to see "hate speech" laws enacted that would make it illegal to do so. I would have no objection to that.
So do you think there should be various threshholds, depending on how "rational" different groups of religionists might be (at least in other areas of their lives)? This could be used to justify having to worry less about offend Christians and Jews than about offending a religion like Islam, whose adherents are generally more primitive and prone to more volatile responses.
64 - Richard Brodie
BTW Mark, I'm curious. Do you single out newspapers as being the only type of publication and medium that should refrain from running offensive negative commentary on any religion? How about magazines, books, e-zines, blogs, news broadcasts, etc.?
65 - Muhammad Rahim
Bliffle: you asked in comment#57......."Can you prove this assertion?
yes, my proof is in the Bible and Qur'an. Adam WAS obedient to God before he Disobeyed Him.....
Obedience to God= Islam. So the word Islam is just an arabic word that means surrender to God. That was here before Moses, Jesus or Muhammad was born.......with MUCH respect to each one of them for teaching the people what their true nature was before our father Adam, fell from God's grace.
The proof is in the Books.
66 - Mark
I mention newspapers since that is the medium in question here. But editing should apply to all mass-media outlets & yes, I think that religious people should keep it to themselves - it should be a private matter since it is a subject that generally does not foster rational discourse.
You could be having what you consider a perfectly civilised discussion about religion with someone you thought you knew - when suddenly, if the logic contradicts something they believe in - they will tell you that their god is going to get you.
My god is better than your god & he is going to destroy all of you who have another god. It astounds me that anyone can actually believe in any of it.
67 - Bliffle
Rahim: "Bliffle: you asked in comment#57......."Can you prove this assertion?
yes, my proof is in the Bible and Qur'an."
I've heard this claim many times, but no one has shown me a proof. It's just an empty assertion.
68 - Bliffle
In any case, this whole brouhaha over the cartoons is a fraud: they were published in an Egyptian paper in October, without reaction. All this noise created by the bedlam division of the muslims is bogus.
I've concluded that any muslim who supports the bedlam division is a fraud and reeks of bogosity.
69 - Bliffle
This whole controversy is a FRAUD! The cartoons were published Oct. 17 in Egypt and passed without adverse muslim reaction. This is a manufactured controversy, invented for their own vile purposes by lying crybabies.
Look here:
70 - Mark
I guess in October the Islamic Bedlam Division had other infidels to fry, so this had to be postponed?
Thank you Bliffle - I like your style.
71 - Diego A
Well hello critters.
I read and watched with a mixture of fear, amusement and outrage at how the Muslims reacted to these cartoons. I have concluded that the Muslims that participated in the protests, destructive behaviour and death threats are really ignorant, dangerous and filled with hate, and not to mention hypocritical. Also, shame on the Muslim leaders for not supressing or controlling their congregations. The reoson that I say they are hypocritical is because the very prophet that was depicted in the cartoons was a person who live by a creed of non violence, forgiveness and tolerance. So why are you so-called peace-loving religious Muslims destroying other people's property and threatening other people's life? What would Mohammad say about your behaviour? By your actions you have shown your true vindictive and exaggerated nature, really overreacting to a mere cartoon. Given that Mohammad was a Holy Prophet and was offended by the cartoon do you think he really needed your help to punish those who offended him? Did Mohammad ever ask any of you Muslims to raise a commotion for those cartoons? You all as a people need to grow up, educate yourselves and live in peace and harmony. Some of you were surely offended but you don't cancel a negative action with a much bigger negative action(s). The world is changing and you need to change. For now I am very happy that there are very little (if any) Muslims here in Central America and with your violent attitudes, I hope that you Muslims keep yourselves far away from here.
72 - Muhammad Rahim
Diego,
I agree with most of what you said. However, don't blame ALL muslims for the actions of some. Remember also, North America, South America and your beloved Central America was colonized, raped and natural resources destroyed by another violent group of people and they weren't muslims...........hahaha. Guess what their religion was.
73 - Muhammad Rahim
Speaking of FRAUDS.....
The missing WMD's in Iraq!!!
The thing that kinda shocked me was, I was waiting for Bush's boy Rumsfield to have some WMD's planted in Iraq to justify the invasion. I just knew that after they didn't find any (and they already knew there were none), they would plant their own "smoking gun". But I guess they didn't have to once they got the masses of dumb american people to go along with the LIE! All that mattered was them getting that oil. LIE, KILL & STEAL..... that's the American way!
P.S. i'm a decendant of slaves born in America. I'm not an Arab.....so don't blame arabs for my statement...........lol
74 - iluvjewz
Finally we see YOUR agenda, #27.
"Pray that we don't erupt, Chromatius. We have plenty of reason to erupt and plenty of vengeance to take."
Is that a threat? Don't you think you've been erupting on the Arabs since the days of Irgun and the Stern Gang?
"These are just the countries that should be destroyed because of all the Jews they've murdered and persecuted over that 1,800 years."
OK. I guess we know what your 200 nuclear missles are for now.
Germany-Think you did this one already. Does getting the Aliies to firebomb 161 towns and cities ring a bell?
Russia-Right. How about your brothers in the Communist party who murdered the royal family and millions of other Russians?
Ah, I forgot. The poor, perescuted Hebrews who have never, ever harmed a fly. I'm just a stupid goy anti-Semite.
75 - yasmine
As a muslim and an Arab i was really pissed off by those cartoons for the way they insult my religion and my prophet... now u may say that anti christian cartoons are being published without anyone calling for riots and blood well maybe you find them acceptable but we dont, we take our religion seriously ... and i dont mean by seriously shedding blood.. As a muslim i should defend my religion and i believe that in writing this message i am because explaining what my religion is about in simple and gentle words is way more effective than walking down the streets with the "freedom to hell" signs. I know that my religion doesnt call for the blood of the cartoonists or the editors or anyone actually, although this is the image the west perceives of us because of what a minority and yes i say a minority, there are almost 70 million ppl in Egypt now how many of these did u see causing riots??? a thousand??? i think i can easily call that a minority... and ah for the comment that said we make fun of jews that is excuse me RUBBISH, we dont.. theres a big difference in insulting a religion and making fun of a nation,,, if someone makes fun of egyptians i wouldnt consider that as insulting my religion...
one more thing if u really think of us as barbarians and ignorant then dont piss us off!! because hey we know no better, we're not emotionally mature to deal with ur jokes ;) At least thats what you think!