In September, a dozen cartoons were published in Denmark critical of Islam, some depicting Muhammad, the prophet and founder of Islam, in an unflattering light. Many Muslims consider it blasphemy to print any image of Muhammad. One cartoon depicts Muhammad with a turban in the shape of a bomb. Another shows him at the gates of heaven, arms raised, saying to male suicide bombers, "Stop, stop, we have run out of virgins." A third has devil's horns emerging from his turban.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Aaman
I know, to rephrase, the level of personal attacks that gets generated on these threads is stunning.
77 - Nidhogg
I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, it is amazing that mankind can be so callous to each other. But in the end, it means nothing.
78 - Dave Nalle
LOL, Nidhogg. Good name choice.
Dave
79 - Matthew T. Sussman
First, they came for the cartoons, and I said nothing.
And I LIVED TO TELL ABOUT IT.
80 - ORC
hmmm ... no offence to Danish or anyone else including Muslims
but as I see and believe , I believe Israel have it's receipt in this cocking
and they cock it real good this time.
81 - firdooze
To tell you the truth, I feel sad for ANY religion that has been mocked especially by the media. I am a believer of free speech, but to what extent does free speech hold? Think about that....
Will there be a time when anyone wants to say anything they want and get away with it? Yes it's funny on the surface but the implications that underlie the "free speech/expression" could bring more harm then good. Look at the big picture for heaven sake! Do you want to live in a world where people can mock you or what you believe in, belittle your family or your friends? Or burn the bible/koran in your face and get away with it? What about mocking your birth country? What if one day some Asian dude comes out to the media and say nasty stuffs about the Europeans that you'd disagree with totally?
Please! Free speech has its limits. Issues that are sensitive should be dealt with in a subtle way. I'm not addressing to the westerners only but to the world, as humans. Is it creative to deal with an issue with mocking ways? Is it more creative to deal with the issue in a more politically/societally correct way? For god sakes that's the reason why Universities around the world offer political science for a degree.
In my honest opinion, I condemn the terrorist attacks done by some of the Muslims. To say that Islam is not the only one with terrorists (compared with KKKs and what nots) is just one bull crap and another reason for them to create violence. But in true nature, I must agree that these actions are undertaken by minorities. These people are mislead to think that "jihad" is to kill. Islam by itself a very humane way of life. One have to understand and know more about a religion to comment.
I'm not very sure about this but I must say that the media is gaining a lot from this she-bang. And it's has really been blown over proportion: 1st by them knowing that it will cause chaos and still going ahead publishing the pictures. 2nd by making lots of fuss and creating much of an issue about it. 3rd Gaining all the credits and your penny worth of self-induced-troubled news which to me is ridiculous. I say its folly.
I'm not all out for full media censorship. But a certain degree of publishing ethics should be imposed.
82 - wanderer
"Personal attacks are not allowed. Please read our comment policy"..muahhahaha!!...yeah right..and here we are talking bout freedom of speech..if all of u out there are so free to talk..how bout start swearing without the words getting censored..owh we cant do that now can we..y? coz somebody will get offended...but if we constraint ourselves then we arent really free to speak...owh y do we care bout somebody getting offended?...freedom of speech my foot..
83 - Nidhogg
Dave- Thanks. Finally someone caught on.
Firdooze- Point taken, but when do we draw the line on what can and cannot be printed? And once the government takes those steps towards publishing ethics, will they continue to choke the free-press until we have something like that of China?
Wanderer- As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad the forbid some words from being posted. Those words should not be used in civilized discourse.
84 - gonzo marx
hey wanderer...fuck that..we can use any words we like...
but i digress...
Aleinthos sez...
*Let us assign the blame SQUARELY where it belongs so often: the priests, preachers, mullas, "holy men" who are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THEY and THEY ALONE know God's will...*
Quoted for Truth...
nuff said?
Excelsior!
85 - Nidhogg
Amen? So much b/s comes from those who interpret the word of the divinely inspired books. Do yourself a favor, read the Bible/Quran/book of your chosen religion, and interpret it yourself.
86 - Sicntired
I remember Muslims dancing and celebrating in the streets after 9/11. I was told not to be offended, it's not the majority of Muslims that feel that way. This is about cartoon right? All this violence over a cartoon? Uneducated; unsanitary people. Makes me sick. Developed nations should stay out of the Middle East and let the fuckers kill themselves.
87 - Richard Brodie
wanderer: freedom of speech my foot.
In addition to Freedom of Speech, there is one other Western concept that Islam will never be able to understand, and that is Property Rights, and more specifically the relationship between these two foundational principles.
You are the King on your own property. The owners of a certain property known as blogcritics.org can set whatever rules they damn well please about what kind of speech is going to be allowed. That doesn't have anything to do with what other people are allowed to say on their own property, or on other people's property. Thus it does not nullify the general First Amendment constitutional protections of Free Speech.
So you Muslims have the same rights westerners have to be able to say whatever you want to say on your own properties (your websites, your radio stations, your newspapers, etc.) And if you exercise that right in a civilized manner - not calling for non-Mulsims to be murdered for exercising their Free Speech rights in ways that might offend you - then you can hope to be successful by rational persuasion at influencing us infidels to voluntarily stop being disrespectful towards your religion and Prophet (pbuh).
We will even go so far as to tolerate you criticizing the very Freedom of Speech that allows you to speak your mind. But be careful. For as long as you keep on trying to get our governments to step in and FORCIBLY restrain us from being able to exercise our Free Speech right to criticize and poke fun at you (especially while hypocritically expecting to enjoy the freedom to criticize US), you will get ablsolutely nowhere. In fact you will only alienate yourselves even futher, and provoke even more negative atitudes, because you will be perceived (correctly) as enemies of the very most basic foundations of cherished Western values.
88 - wahid
i ask the danish news paper if she really likes
freedom , to attack the JEWS or draw a picture to jesus like thise if it really is a free newspaper , i believe they are just cowards
and can never do , they are just descreminators
rather than any thing else..................
89 - hounddog
well well, i have now seen the pictures that were published regarding the muslim christ, they are not worse than what the muslim press has previously printed about jesus, budha and krishna, so why don't we tit for tat a little, and torch a few muslim embassys and a few of their religous houses in our christian, hindi and budhist countries. the muslims have a cancer in their midst that they should cut out themselves, called "religous stupidity as well as terrorist leaning", if they don't do it themselves and try to live with the rest of the world, then the rest of the world will eventually be the surgeon and that will not be as pretty as when they do it themselves. educating their masses of poor would be a good start instead of keeping them ignorant, so the can be easily manipulated to become terrorists.
90 - beast
They have a 3% tolerance of christians. They kill the rest of the infidels.
91 - beast
There are no Margarets, and no Matthiews in islamic countries.
92 - roxyfoxy
why doesn't he bomb saudi, oh wait becuz he can't take on them cuz he's afraid they'll kick his ass.
He's afraid they'll withdraw the millions they invested in his oil company in Texas.
All this violence over a cartoon? Uneducated; unsanitary people. Makes me sick.
If you knew anything about TRUE Muslims, you would know that they are quite sanitary. Try researching before posting.
I spoke to my husband about the riots and burning of buildings over these cartoons. He is MUSLIM and says these are the people that get crazy in the religion. Just like any religion you have extremists.
How did you feel on 9/11? Pissed off and out for revenge. Our military has been there for how long blowing shit up? Killing their women and children? I'd be burning flags too.
93 - Richard Brodie
Gee, I didn't realize Muslims allowed "foxiness" in their women. Can you actually display that on the street, out in public? Is there a special burkah that is not totally opaque, or do you do it all just with your eyes?
94 - jack_from_noi
What would Mohammed do if someone made fun of him?
95 - firdooze
Nidhogg: The extent of censorship has to be dealt with individual countries. Yes its a fine line and its difficult to see the line. But of course not that extreme like China. And I'm not talking about really information supression but ceiving sensitive expressions or express it in a way that would be less likely to cause any uproar.
96 - roxyfoxy
Allowed? You do realize women and men are equal, right? Oh, and most likely the Muslims you are referring to that don't allow "foxiness" in their women are the ones from the oppressed Muslim Countries, Iraq, Iran......
How about the Americans who oppress their women? That beat their women? That rape your mothers, sisters, daughters? Do you not see that as terrorism? Look at the violence and discrimmination we face in our own country we are by no means a good example and definetly not in the place to judge.
For that last question, if it was directed by me, Mohommed isn't the one you should be worried about, its God/Allah. Oh, and for you uneducated, God and Allah are the same.
97 - firdooze
jack: he won't do anything. during the period when he was spreading the religion, he went through worse. but he did not do anything in retaliation.
I know its such a contrast in Muslim world now. I think its inivitable that there would be people who would create trouble. And like many muslims would agree, very few people can depict the way Mohammad go about in his way of life.
98 - firdooze
roxyfoxy: Seriously, I think Islam is the few religion that recognize woman as equal to man. Not entirely but to a certain extent that they can actually be placed almost at the same status as man. But the problem is that the middle easterners have been since eons ago before Islam been harsh to woman. Hard habits are hard to break? But if you look at woman in Islamic world like in Malaysia. Singapore, they receive equal treatment from men.
where can you find a religion that gives the power of the path to heaven to a mother? Or the right to have the husbands will to his wife and not entirely to his sons? The fact that woman are allowed to practice the religion as much as the men could says alot on how the religion is for quality between genders.
99 - Jack from NOI
firdooze: Malaysia and Singapore are considered moderate because they are far from the core of Islam source land - Saudi Arabia. The closer a country to Saudi Arabia, the crazier it is. In other word, Malaysia and Singapore are still mixed with secular values. The crazyiness of Islam ideology is progressively hijacking the culture of other countries.
As for status of woman in Islam, I like your view towards the status of woman, but is it the view of your Islam?
What religion says "a woman is inferior than a man"?
What religion says "the majority of people is woman."?
What religion allows a man to marry 4 wives and has sex with numerous sex slaves?
What religion is crazy enough to ask a raped woman for 4 witnesses to justify her being raped otherwise she is verdicted committing adultery and stoned to death?
100 - Dawn
Did someone really just write that Islam is a religion that recognizes women as equal to men?
Holy shit, what a load of camel dung.
While there are certainly lots of enlightened Muslims who may consider women equal to men, or at least pretend, most of the free world doesn't even accept that women are equal to men, so that's a pretty damn funny comment.
Yes, wearing a burka and being thrown in jail for being raped is my idea of equal.
101 - Purple Tigress
Somehow, I don't remember the Bible saying that men and women were equal and I think the Bible was used to justify the subjugation of women and non-whites in America so I'd actually like to see quotes and the translation listed when discussing Islam.
--Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation, p. 375.Although Buddha didn't say that men and women were equal, cultural practices and attitudes in Japan and China made this assertion. I see similar problems in evaluating Islam and Christianity.
There were, after all, European Christian nations that lagged behind Islamic countries in giving women the vote.
In actuality, I only know of one religion that writes men and women are equal, comparing them to two wings of a bird.
In the Baha'i Faith the education of women is considered more important than the education of men.
The majority of people in the world are women.
To better understand why people are rioting, I think one should consider why people rioted in Los Angeles (both times). For people that are oppressed, what is the last straw?
102 - roxyfoxy
"here can you find a religion that gives the power of the path to heaven to a mother?"
In the Quran it says a mother has one foot inside of heaven. I will find the quote and post it here.
"hat religion allows a man to marry 4 wives and has sex with numerous sex slaves?"
It is true, an islamic man can have 4 wives, provided the first wife agrees to this and the man can provide every wive with the same things.
"he closer a country to Saudi Arabia, the crazier it is. "
Turkey is close to Saudi Arabia, it is probably the freest of the Islamic Countries.
103 - Dawn
Yes, "that woman" has one foot inside heaven because her husband has a machete poised to smack her down should she step out of line.
Enough with this already, it's a falsehood, even if scripture says it, cultural practice rules the day and gender equality and the Islamic faith are at odds with one another.
104 - firdooze
Maybe you are kinda stereotyping and you don't know the full practices of Islam. I don't blame you because what people hear and see usually comes from a second hand source (media, heresay, etc) rather than from the Islamic teachers..
Yes a man can marry 4 wives. But for him to marry four wives is a real burden for that man, period. blah blah blah) And that if only the 1st wive agree upon. But I must agree that to a certain extent, these practices might have been misused by men, who "pretends" to interpret the sources correctly and refrain from the MUST which is the obligations that man have to face before they get more than 1 wife. Thus, if really you wanna follow the rules that's laid down for marrying more than 1, it's kinda not feasable.
For a woman wearing a burkah, you are seriously looking at it at a westernized way. look at it in a more conservertive way. It cannot be argued that men are generally lusty. So if you looked at it in that point of view, it is actually protecting the woman rather than troubling them.
105 - firdooze
Dawn: I must agree with you. At the end of the day, its the culture and the nature of the race and not the religion. The middle easterners have been known to be like that way before Islam or even Christianity.
Now then, do you understand why the Torah, Bible and the Koran are passed to people from middle east decent?
106 - Eric Olsen
PT, I was not under the impression that Denmark is oppressing anyone
107 - EZ
The thing that intrigues me is that a CARTOON caused this ruckus! I'm glad art is so powerful, despite the results. Maybe more folks will got to art school instead of the army; the pen is mightier than the sword.
108 - hounddog
are the teheran newspapers and the iranian governement to afraid to print cartoons of jesus, budha and also their own idol, and instead use the holocost as an excuse for more violence, as they would then have the whole world against them, are all muslims stupid, or just happy to kill, even their own all the time
to all non muslims: boycott all wares, including oil from the muslim countries all over the world, as mentioned in a prior message tit for tat
109 - hounddog
hello kareem
shame on all muslims, that is all i have to say
110 - hounddog
i wonder if the muslim prophet would agree with the way his followers now interpet his teachings, or would he let the medianians catch him, so the world would be a more peaceful place now
111 - roxyfoxy
"For a woman wearing a burkah, you are seriously looking at it at a westernized way. look at it in a more conservertive way. It cannot be argued that men are generally lusty. So if you looked at it in that point of view, it is actually protecting the woman rather than troubling them."
This is a very good point, but I just want to point out that women are not forced to wear them. It is an option in the Quran. The men and leaders of the oppressed Muslim countries have forced their women to wear them. But, as we all know, the West is more civilized and a lot further along with technology. These people are still living during the old times.
"are the teheran newspapers and the iranian governement to afraid to print cartoons of jesus, budha and also their own idol, and instead use the holocost as an excuse for more violence, as they would then have the whole world against them, are all muslims stupid, or just happy to kill, even their own all the time"
Its so unfortunate that you fail to educate yourself with the religion before posting. It is against islamic law to depict any of the prophets, Jesus Christ included. Look at the Christian churches, they all have some depiction of Jesus, but how do they know what he looks like? And if you haven't educated yourself, you will know that Jesus was from the Middle East, but why is he depicted as a white man with light brown hair? Would it have anything to do with the prejudice that our country was built on against all people who have a different skin tone? Yes, america is now declared "free", but its people like you that still class human beings in a color coded box.
"i wonder if the muslim prophet would agree with the way his followers now interpet his teachings, or would he let the medianians catch him, so the world would be a more peaceful place now"
The muslims who are acting out this way are wrong, we all know that. They are taking the words in the Quran and twisting them around. Do you see Muslims in the US or Canada acting this way? No, because they wanted to get away from the barbaric lands they came from.
Must we not forget that America was a land of barbaric laws and inequality. Did we all forget about slavery? Segregation which only ended in the 60's? Or how about the fact that women couldn't even vote until the 20's? Yes, that may have been a while ago, but it did happen, and women and african americans (moreso than women) are still put in a category and suffer prejudice every day.
I'll say it again, the world is the way it is because of people like you who can't accept difference.
112 - Richard Brodie
The muslims who are acting out this way are wrong, we all know that.
No. They are the ones who follow what the Koran clearly teaches.
They are taking the words in the Quran and twisting them around.
No. It is you so-called "moderate" Muslims who have "twisted" the Koran's words. "Moderate" is just what the word implies. You have "moderated" (i.e. modified) the plain teachings of the Koran to be palatable to what you call the "more civilized West."
Example:
Surah 9:5--"The Repentance"
Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.
The so-called "extremists" don't try and twist these words around and weasel out from the obvious meaning that it boils down to:
Kill non-muslims.
The moderates, on the other hand will try and explain it away, saying that it only refers to a "spiritual" jihad - that it's only talking about "slaying" one's own inner idolatrous tendencies.
It's pretty obvious who is doing the linguistic twisting, and squirming here. I'm sorry but even Tammy Faye Baker couldn't put enough lipstick on this ideological pig to make it attractive.
113 - EZ
All ye artists! Cartoonists! Caricaturists! Lampooners! Rise up! Now's the time to be heard!! Attentions are high and Senses of Humor are at all-time low! draw like the wind!!!
114 - hounddog
re nr. 9 mohammed: dear mohammed, cutting your own lifeline with a boycott, there are already many that boycott wares from muslim countries including oil, keep it up and you will have more hungry and poor people, unless you can kill all your rich and take their goods, but somehow i feel they wont like that too much
re Nr. 10 michael: arent you a bit radical, the fallout would kill the rest of us in the world, which i personally wouldn't mind so much as long as it is fast and painless, can you guarantee that, no i worry a bit about the animals and flora, but i just heard about all the 100 and more black holes in our part of the universe, maybe the the gods of all religions are merciful and send one closer
re Nr. 15 bangarti: the 3% of danish goods that were exported to the islamic world will hardly slow down the danish economy, or hurt it
now for my part: so many people have written so much rubbish, including myself that i shall sign off and let others write more bad language
to bad that humans just hate hate hate, animals kill and destroy to live, humans kill and destroy out of pleasure
115 - roxyfoxy
"No. It is you so-called "moderate" Muslims who have "twisted" the Koran's words."
First off, I am a converted muslim who left christianity for the faith. I know both sides of the coin. For that quote you posted, please, quote what was before and after it. I am pretty sure you just went to a webpage, copy and posted what you found. Did you read this by any chance? If you did you would know what it was referring to.
Have you read the bible lately?
Genesis 3
To the woman he said: 'I shall give you intense pain in childbearing,you will give birth to your children in pain. Your yearning will be for
your husband, and he will dominate you.'
Genesis 19
They had not gone to bed when the house was surrounded by the townspeople, the men of Sodom both young and old, all the people without exception. Calling out to Lot they said, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so that we can have intercourse with them.'Lot came out to them at the door and, having shut the door behind him,said,'Please, brothers, do not be wicked. Look, I have two daughters who are virgins. I am ready to send them out to you, for you to treat as you please, but do nothing to these men since they are now under the protection of my roof.'
Deuteronomy 12
You must completely destroy all the places where the nations you dispossess have served their gods, on high mountains, on hills, under any spreading tree;you must tear down their altars, smash their sacred stones, burn their sacred poles, hack to bits the statues of their gods and obliterate their name from that place.
Is the Bible really any different than the Quran? No where in the bible does it say to respect women and the mothers of your children.
Although I don't agree with the last persons views, I do agree with signing off. You people are rediculous.
116 - Bliffle
"With these kinds of deeds like cartoons What kind of message Europeon countries wants to give the Muslim World???"
Uhhh, maybe that we argue with words, not bombs?
117 - Richard Brodie
So when is an Islamic Christ going to appear on the scene and "do away" with the old law (namely Islam's equivalent of the Old Testament, the Koran) and usher in the new law of Love?
Never. Because Mohammed foreclosed on that possibility by proclaiming that HE was the final prophet. And if Muslims profess with their mouths so much about honoring Jesus, then why do they not profess it with their hearts by practicing his Beatitudes, even if they don't want to accept that he was the only begotten Son of Allah (Elohim) in the flesh?
please, quote what was before and after it.
So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
I'm an unbeliever. Do you believe that Allah is going to bring disgrace to me and all other non-Muslims?
announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
I disbelieve. As a Muslim convert from Christianity, please tell me what kind of a "painful punishment" you think is appropriate for my crime of not deciding to become a Muslim.
surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty)
I accept no duty towards Allah. Do you think Allah does not love me? Which brings us to verse five, which I now quote in it's entirety:
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Clearly it is saying that the only way to escape the edge of Islam's bloody sword is to repent (of disbelief) - that is, become a praying Muslim.
And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
Gosh how kind and merciful of Allah. If you are an idolator (non-believer) who at least waves a white flag, you get a chance to escape being slain. You'll be able to receive instruction from the Koran, and the previous verse makes it clear what you will have to do - repent of your disbelief, and convert to Islam - that's your ticket to "attaining your place of safety."
I will spare you continuing on through the rest of the 129 verses. This is plenty of context for any rational person to draw their own accurate conclusions, and my conclusion is the Mohammed was a brilliant military strategist who wrote the Koran for the purpose of terrorizing his followers with threats of Hellfire into being afraid ever to defect from his authority. This Surah in particular has served as a blueprint for the Islamic conquest, subjugation, and annihilation of one culture after another over the course of the last 1400 years. The subjugation of Canaan by the children of Israel in Joshua's time pales to insignificance by comparison. All they wanted was the land of Israel. Islam dreams of subjugating the Earth.
118 - roxyfoxy
"I'm an unbeliever. Do you believe that Allah is going to bring disgrace to me and all other non-Muslims? "
Nobody knows who is going to heaven or who is going to hell. All you can do is believe in what you believe, do everything for God, and pray that you will go to a good place. Are you saying that you are a non-believer of God or just Islam? Because in the Quran it states that any religion that believes in one God is a believer.
119 - Justin Berry
"Is the Bible really any different than the Quran? No where in the bible does it say to respect women and the mothers of your children."
Ephesians 5:25-30.
120 - Long(Denmark)
What have we learn in this case?
One of the biggest gain, I think in this cricis. That we have learn ours self how much, the musli m people are different from muslim to muslim.
That most of the 1.3 milliard muslim in the world just wish to live in peace and harmoni, and dont see any purpose to cast into destruction and violence for just some cartoons.
And a big part of the muslim people in the world is poor, so the can not really boycut the danish industri.
As for the imam, Abu Hamza al-Masri from England, who was trying to convince all muslim, that it is allowed to kill all non muslim. and he was sentence for 7 years in jail for that.
Imamen`s belongs to a dangerous categori. of extremists, that is only using their religion as a weapon to bring had and destruction.
121 - nEzT
I still think Muslims are wrong in this case , why u want to replace ink with blood ? , and those drawn wont be OFFSENSIVE and Muslims wont be OFFENDED if its not telling the TRUTH
122 - hounddog
dear #111
roxyfoxy
I wasn't going to place anymore useless words, but i suppose you forced me.
"i wonder if the muslim prophet would agree with the way his followers now interpet his teachings, or would he let the medianians catch him, so the world would be a more peaceful place now"
The muslims who are acting out this way are wrong, we all know that. They are taking the words in the Quran and twisting them around. Do you see Muslims in the US or Canada acting this way? No, because they wanted to get away from the barbaric lands they came from.
come now don't tell me that all muslims can't read the koran, especially if they bury their beards in the book most of the time. it says kill all non believers, that is me and the rest of the world except the muslims, but we are still more than you, so maybe that is why the moslems that left their groovy countries shut up, given a chance, they would try to convert or kill us all so called nonbelievers. someone here said your prophet was a good general, but did he have to close the door to furtherment of the future (you are all living in the past, when the moslems still enriched the earth with wisdom, but those days are centuries gone)
by the way, i'm not an american and live in a different part of the world. i still feel we have the right to defend ouselves. the scientists are looking for an effective cure for cancer and all the other ills in the world, maybe the'll find one against all misguided religions as well, but then all religions are misguided to keep the masses down. one of your comments here:
"I'll say it again, the world is the way it is because of people like you who can't accept difference."
i can accept differences, just not willing murder in the name of religion or politics
have a good life, as long as your religious compatriots let you live (if you live in a western country, be glad you are wrongly protected by our benign laws)
123 - firdooze
"So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
I'm an unbeliever. Do you believe that Allah is going to bring disgrace to me and all other non-Muslims?
announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
I disbelieve. As a Muslim convert from Christianity, please tell me what kind of a "painful punishment" you think is appropriate for my crime of not deciding to become a Muslim.
surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty)
I accept no duty towards Allah. Do you think Allah does not love me? Which brings us to verse five, which I now quote in it's entirety:
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Clearly it is saying that the only way to escape the edge of Islam's bloody sword is to repent (of disbelief) - that is, become a praying Muslim.
And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. "
Seriously, I guess you either no nuts about this verse or you really don't care (with the intention to tarnish the religion).
My dear friend, this verse has nothing to do with non-believers being slayed because they don't believe or killed just for the sake of killing. Its actually a verse relating to a treaty that was made during the time of Mohammad.
The first sentence shows that God is Almighty and even if you don't believe in God, God will not be frustrated or angered.
You obviously ommitted lots of the 2nd sentence which goes, "If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith."
It doesn't mean that you'll be tortured by humans or Muslim or whoever. The punishment refers to works of God not man. Similar to committing a sin.
And for your weak argument : "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "
This is the part when God is talking about the Pagans whom the Muslims have made a treaty to. At that time, many of them actually broke the treaty, causing a war. This sentence actually shows how mercifull God is. It shows that even if those Pagans break those treaties, if they repent by doing any of those mentioned above (pray or help the poor), the Muslims must spare them from the war.
"And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know."
What this sentence mean is that if any of those Pagans who broke the trust of Muslims during that war, seek help or shelter, the Muslims must shelter them. And in turn, he might hear the word of God.
And for your information, Islam is not a religion that is imposed on someone. Islam believes that if you don't want to believe than its your own decision because God is Almighty. Islam do not impose their religion onto anyone like how I know some religion tries to.
And one last note; many a times, the meaning of the Quran is lost in translation. That is why, the Koran is preserved through time in Arabic, the language that it was first written and told. (now you know why Islam don't regard the modern day Anglicized Bible as a reputable source for reference in Islam as it went through many translations from the original language, Aramaic) There are many Arabic words that the English counterparts don't provide adequately or not of the same meaning. So if you wanna understand the Koran, you got to learn the language first, then decipher for yourself. You don't need to be a Muslim to read the Koran.
Lastly, it is good to really understand the other religion (myself, I was in a christian school since 4yrs till i was 18) not to belittle or put them down (you have the right to your own believe) but to actually understand the people practicing them and in turn will foster more tolerance towards every other religion. Enough said.
124 - roxyfoxy
Hounddog, when I said the world is the way it is because of people like you, I was referring to all of the people who put Muslims down because of what other "muslims" do. I put muslims in quotes because anybody who is resorting to violence is not amuslim. Islam is a peaceful religion that does not promote violence.
No baptist, no catholic, no protestant, no muslim, nobody regardless of their faith, believer or not, can say who is going to heaven and who is going to hell or what will happen when we get where we are going. All we can do is believe in what we believe and do our best in life to get where we want to go. If you are a nonbeliever, then that is up to you. But I am not God therefore saying you will be tortured or saved is not my call.
Its unfortunate that so many people are so hateful, including in the Islamic world. The good muslims, or TRUE muslims believe that this violent protesting is wrong and useless. Instead of watching TV and reading the newspapers talking about all of the wrong things about Islam, try going to this website: www.fethullahgulen.com
125 - Scott Butki
I posted some new news on all of this here.