Tell the world. Tell this to everybody, wherever they are. Watch the skies, everywhere, keep looking. Keep watching the skies.
When I was a kid I spent a lot of time on planes flying from country to country and a fair amount of time looking at the sky from the ground, fascinated with the space program which was taking us to the moon and beyond. I never looked to the skies with fear or terror, but only saw it as a blank canvas for amazing possibilities.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Cody Carpenter
I find it completely absurd that skeptics who use their profound logic to debunk conspiracy theorists rule out very, if I may, illogically the fact that it is not beyond the capacity of human beings to... conspire. Lies are deception, you lie in order to distort another's view on reality right? And you you usually have a motive behind it. Isn't it a bit illogical then Dave, that , I assume that you accept the reality that friends lie to each other. Or spouses lie to each other. Would be absolutely illogical to say that a man is cheating on his wife when he comes home late every night, is it beyond human nature to lie? Sure, the more LOGICAL explanation and th one he uses is he has business at the office, traffic, blah blah blah what have you. So if one person can lie to another, why then can groups of people not lie/deceive others? For claiming to be oh so logical, you go off of what you want to believe and try to discredit the opposing side with very subjective personal experiences. and who are your sources for the apparent objective information. This article, if it were an argument essay, wouldn't hold up in my honor's english class. You imply very strongly that those who choose not to think like you are insane and illogical, it really doesn't help your case at all.
why dont you check out these two websites, Carnicom and About The Sky, do a little bit more logical, nonsubjective thinking, and come back with something a little bit more well founded and investigated.
oh and for all you skeptics, google aerosol crimes. Do your research first before being the people in history everyone looks back on and despises.
27 - Dr Dreadful
Would be absolutely illogical to say that a man is cheating on his wife when he comes home late every night, is it beyond human nature to lie? Sure, the more LOGICAL explanation and th one he uses is he has business at the office, traffic, blah blah blah whathaveyou.
Unless you are very cynical, the most likely explanation, all things being equal and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, is that he does indeed have business that is keeping him at the office.
Occam's Razor.
BTW, for someone who claims to be taking an honors class in English, I can't help noticing that your comment is riddled with spelling, punctuation and grammar errors... including the phrase 'honor's english'.
Feh. Schools these days...
28 - Dan Miller
Doc,
IMO, their is a conspiracy to diminish the englsh language. William Strunk, Jr. is spinning in hs grave, write now, i mean, you know, and i think it hs to due with instnt mesaging. Their is lotsa mprical evidense for this, if u kno what i mean. I mean, soon, nun of us is gona be able to reed, much less rite, gud englsh. ether that or its the keybord - puter conspricy referncd erlir on the thrd.
Dan
29 - Clavos
honor's english
Damn, Doc, you beat me to it...
30 - Deano
Shouldn't you spell it properly using the Queen's English? With a "u"?
Honour's English
31 - Clavos
It might be a good idea to remove the apostrophe, too.
Just sayin'
32 - Dan Miller
Clav,
Youse grammar Nazis is killin free expression. If youse kant avoid th konspiracy, live with it. I mean, you know.
Dan
33 - Clavos
Grammar.
Love it or leave it.
Know what I mean?
34 - STM
Atre these folks serious Dave ... the chemtrails theorists I mean?
Seriously, do people actually believe they are getting nefariously sprayed by their own government and that these aren't contrails. With what???
If so, now I've heard everything. Although I thought that before, so perhaps not.
Seriously, only in America ...
35 - STM
"SOMETHING is making us stupider!"
Yes, the oversupply of insane conspiracy theories is turning America into a laughing stock.
What is it with (some of) you guys?
How does anyone come up with the notion that contrails, which have been a known phenomomenon since the beginning of powered flight, can suddenly turn into chemtrails and a government doing bizarre things to its own people??
Fair dinkum ...
My tip ... move to the mountains of Oregon, but if you do, watch out for the black helicopters with the padded, silenced rotor blades ... they always know where you are.
If that fails, please refer to Dave's earlier story on tinfoil hats.
36 - Dr Dreadful
Clav @ #33:
Nice...!
37 - Clavos
Heh.
Thankee, Guv, thankee...
38 - STM
Doc and Clav,
Have you blokes seen these chemtrails?
Is it a good idea to wear goggles and some kind of protective headgear whilst looking up?
39 - STM
Your Honour's English
Is he?
40 - Michael J. West
Ohh, I don't know, Dave. Perpetuating the chemtrails conspiracy theory is certainly no more ridiculous than, oh, say, dressing up religious dogma as legitimate scientific theory and then blaming "the Godless liberals" when everybody sees through it.
41 - Jimmy
I have used a program that displays the length of time it takes for a real contrail to dissipate. You can enter different temperature and humidity values and it calculates the dissipation time. Contrails only form under certain conditions of humidity and temperature. I’m sorry I do not remember where I saw it but I do know enough to say that a normal contrail lasts not much more than 2 minutes on a good day. What is in those trails that last for hours? It ain’t just water vapor. If it looks like a Duck…
42 - Clavos
If it looks like a Duck...
"Not again!!"
43 - Dr Dreadful
Jimmy, this may have been the simulation you saw.
I would draw your attention to two things:
1. Nowhere on the page does it state that the simulation is in real time.
2. If you click the link 'More on contrails' just above the simulation, it shows you a pair of satellite images taken half an hour apart. Two contrails visible in the first photo are still present in the second.
As for your contention that a normal contrail doesn't last for more than a couple of minutes - have you never looked up at the sky on a clear day? Who, when it gets right down to it, are you to say what is a normal contrail and what isn't?
44 - Dr Dreadful
Clav, I forgot to add in the above comment that I've seen some funny-shaped clouds in my time, but I've never seen a contrail that looked like a duck.
45 - troll
Seriously, do people actually believe they are getting nefariously sprayed by their own government and that these aren't contrails. With what???
surfer dude - I've heard that it all has do with this...enjoy the party
46 - Andy Marsh
Dave - You really do like spinning up the moonbats don't you?
Can't wait for the next one. Maybe wew need a new section at BC. You know we have politics and sports and sci/tech...stuff like that...maybe we need a section just called crazy unbelievable crap that the moonbats believe in?!?!
Good stuff though. I learn something new every day! And I thought it was just the guy driving through my neighborhood spraying for mosquitos that was trying to get in my head! Who knew!??!
47 - Clavos
My entry for the name of the new section suggested by Andy:
48 - Andy Marsh
I 2nd Clavos' name!!! That's perfect!
49 - Dr Dreadful
I was under the impression that Dave had created his own separate site specifically to address the conspiracy crazies, so I'm surprised to see such pieces still appearing here.
I guess he doesn't want to deprive the rest of us of all the fun. How very altruistic of him...!
50 - Dave Nalle
Yep, Dr. D. I do indeed have a special site for these articles. They reached critical mass so I started IdiotWars.com, which has these articles plus others plus special features like the 'idiot of the week' (check out Jeff Rense's crazy hair) and lots of video links (cause I'm trendy).
But I do bring some of the articles over here to hit a wider audience, because it's no use researching and writing these things if people don't read them.
Dave
51 - Jordon
Anyone who's actually interested in doing a little research into the chemtrail issue and whether its fact or fiction have to look not much further then a simple google search for "German governments admits to chemtrails" or any variation of those words.
Putting chemicals into jet fuel has been admitted and therefor it is no longer a conspiracy theory but rather a conspiracy fact, though they claim its for fighting green house gases or other such noble causes but then why the secrecy?
52 - Jordan Richardson
why the secrecy?
If you know about and the German government admitted to id, it sure as hell doesn't sound like that much of a secret.
53 - STM
Troll: I had a look at that HAARP site. Good stuff. They lost me at the second paragraph when I saw their support base. Lol.
"The individuals who are demanding answers about HAARP are scattered around the planet. As well as bush dwellers in Alaska, they include: a physician in Finland; a scientist in Holland; an anti-nuclear protester in Australia; independent physicists in the United States; a grandmother in Canada ... "
What about Mick, the butcher who used to live down the road from me in London, or Al, the sheep farmer from New Zealand who loves a day out at the rugby, or the bloke whose name I forget that I had a beer with in the public bar of the Bricklayer's Arms last week? They'd probably be included in the "countless others", along with Pablo in Thailand and the poor gibberer above who keeps urging Dave to go outside.
54 - Dr Dreadful
Anyone who's actually interested in doing a little research into the chemtrail issue and whether its fact or fiction have to look not much further then a simple google search for "German governments admits to chemtrails" or any variation of those words.
A mere couple of minutes looking at some of the results obtained using that search term is enough to discover that the German government has admitted nothing of the kind. It's (as if anyone should be surprised) just various conspiracy sites putting words in their mouths.
55 - Pablo
Just finding out now about HARP STM? Man are you slow.
56 - STM
Pablo: "Just finding out now about HARP STM? Man are you slow."
Now, call me old-fashioned, Pablo, but it doesn't surprise me one little bit that you've popped your head up here in relation to this :)
Actually, the reason it's not a big deal down here is probably because it's a load of bullsh.t, and we've always got our bullsh.t detector switched to extreme when it comes to any of this stuff coming out of America (cause that is ALWAYS where it comes from).
Chemtrails ... fair dinukum, do me a favour.
57 - duane
HAARP is a tinker toy compared to this.
You can run, but you cannot hide. Worst case scenario: the Earth is toast in 8 months.
58 - Jimmy
Chemtrails are just the one thing you can “see” and it is by design that they keep us arguing about the reason for them. Dave, being a history teacher is undoubtedly familiar with the book, “The True Believer” by Eric Hoffer. Beam me up Scotty.
59 - STM
Duane,
Mate, there's a few strangelets lurking around these boards ...
60 - STM
Jimmy, I reckon the chemtrails have been specially designed by the US govt to make otherwise-normal US citizens believe in an endless series of conspiracy theories, so they are too busy to see what is REALLY going on.
Makes sense. In future, you won't catch me going outside without googles, tinfoil hat, and protective clothing.
You realise, too, the internet is one of the greatest conspiracy theories ever perpetrated.
People should check this out ... there's plenty of info about it on the internet.
61 - Clavos
duane #57,
As long as there's a chance that the Large Hadron Collider might produce "a new killer app for iPhones," I say damn the consequences, let's take our chances...
62 - WOW
So many sarcastic, idiotic, pointless comments in one place! Talk of unicorns and dragons too! As if fairytale creatures that no one mentioned have something to do with huge visible puffs of chemicals we can see RIGHT OVER OUR HEADS DAILY...
Almost as though the same person or group of people, trying to prove his or their inaccurate point (or simply perpetuate the official lie) are commenting amongst themselves, over and over again!
If any real people are reading this crap, don't be fooled!!! Do your own research as so many others are doing...
Look into it yourself, or simply LOOK UP and THINK!
You people can lie and laugh and giggle like idiots all you want - more and more of us are WAKING UP and won't be listening to or reading your drivel..
driv·el (drvl)
v. driv·eled or driv·elled, driv·el·ing or driv·el·ling, driv·els
v.intr.
1. To slobber; drool.
2. To flow like spittle or saliva.
3. To talk stupidly or childishly.
v.tr.
1. To allow to flow from the mouth.
2. To say (something) stupidly.
n.
1. Saliva flowing from the mouth.
2. Stupid or senseless talk - especially at THIS BLOG :D
63 - Clavos
Oh, well, I'm surely convinced now!
WOW posts a YouTube source (of a newscast - in German, no less!) and the dictionary definition of drivel to bolster the argument in favor of the existence of "chemtrails." Oh, I forgot the most compelling evidence of all: we can look up in the sky, and see them!
Yep, that does it for me.
I'm on board:
The sky is falling!
64 - Dr Dreadful
Apollo drives his fiery chariot across the sky, thereby creating daylight.
Don't believe me? Just go outside - you can look up into the sky every day and see it!
65 - Dr Dreadful
Duane,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's probably just as much chance of a mini-black hole forming spontaneously at a random point on the Earth as there is of the CERN physicists inadvertently creating one in the LHC.
66 - WOW
more of the same.... is that the BEST you guys can do?
Maybe in your unicorn, dragon and greek god-lit world, actually SEEING something isn't much proof of something but here in reality it is...
It must be hard to keep spouting off nonsensical sarcastic comments and chuckling and snorting amongst yourselves, or is it yourself? All the same characters as the other day just happen to be visiting this oh so fabulous thread to reply right away... which makes it look even more like one clown signing in as many to make it look as though people are agreeing with him... I know it's hard to keep it up... I understand...
Oh and now someone's got to go and mention the tinfoil hats... you people really need some new material
67 - troll
WOW - fact is none of us on this thread know one way or another what's up with the contrails...for my part the jocularity is meant to fill the time pending the introduction of evidence
68 - Andy Marsh
You're asking for an awful lotthere troll...
What? The utube video isn't enough for you???
69 - troll
Andy...while I appreciated the 97% certainty of the report my faith was shaken by that pesky 3%
70 - duane
STM (#59), I haven't read all this stuff. I will later. I gather it has something to do with conspiracy theories and funny hats. I was drawn in by the HAARP reference. The thing with the HAARPers is that they say thing like "unprecedented amount of electromagnetic energy wil bla bla bla ....", which is one of the usual ways to misrepresent quantitative information. If there had been a series of experiments designed to test the effects of an ant pissing into the Pacific, then someone decided to test the effects of an African swallow pissing into the Pacific, one could rightly say, "Under controlled conditions, we are injecting unprecedented amounts of animal piss into the Pacific, and bla bla bla ....", but it still wouldn't amount to anything.
Clavos (#61): As long as there's a chance that the Large Hadron Collider might produce "a new killer app for iPhones," I say damn the consequences, let's take our chances...
Damn right. We need to act according to our priorities.
Dr. D. (#65): Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's probably just as much chance of a mini-black hole forming spontaneously at a random point on the Earth as there is of the CERN physicists inadvertently creating one in the LHC.
Here's what the PR team at CERN has to say about that:
"The LHC, like other particle accelerators, recreates the natural phenomena of cosmic rays under controlled laboratory conditions, enabling them to be studied in more detail. Cosmic rays are particles produced in outer space, some of which are accelerated to energies far exceeding those of the LHC. The energy and the rate at which they reach the Earth’s atmosphere have been measured in experiments for some 70 years. Over the past billions of years, Nature has already generated on Earth as many collisions as about a million LHC experiments " and the planet still exists. Astronomers observe an enormous number of larger astronomical bodies throughout the Universe, all of which are also struck by cosmic rays. The Universe as a whole conducts more than 10 million million LHC-like experiments per second. The possibility of any dangerous consequences contradicts what astronomers see - stars and galaxies still exist."
However, here is a counter-argument.
Also, I should point out this article by Christopher Hoare here at BC.
71 - Deano
So I will ask that age-old question from the Simpsons:
"...without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"
72 - Pablo
STM RE 53 & 56
You for some odd reason chose to use my name in post 53 dude. No reason for it, but for some odd reason you did.
I replied in post 55, then you come along and say:
"Now, call me old-fashioned, Pablo, but it doesn't surprise me one little bit that you've popped your head up here in relation to this :)"
I normally do not dabble in Chemtrails, HAARP, UFO's, or Orgone Boxes. I far prefer studying secret organizations, particularly of a a metaphysical nature, which is why I am such a big fan of people such as Jordan Maxwell, Jim Marrs,and Alan Watt.
I do not know much about HAARP, but I do know that the military industrial complex has been studying, and more than likely implementing altering weather to use as weapons. Thats not coinspiracy theory but fact.
Anyways STM now ya know why I stuck my nose in this article. You only have yourself to blame, bubba. :)
73 - Dr Dreadful
Duane - is it me, or does Dr Rössler's paper make no sense whatsoever?
74 - duane
Dr. D., first off, let me just say that the theory behind the production of mini black holes from proton-proton collisions, involving hidden dimensions, is beyond my scope. It is true that the LHC experiments are designed to test theories that have no previous experimental support, theories on the cutting edge of modern physics.
Rossler is correct in pointing out the analogy between the LHC experiments and the first A-bomb test, where there was speculation that the entire atmosphere would be blown apart in a global fission chain reaction. He is also correct in alluding to the fact that calculations were performed prior to the Trinity test that showed that an atmospheric detonation would not induce a fission runaway. As complicated as that calculation was, it's kid stuff compared to what is being done at LHC. There is no analogous calculation that can be done right now, since the theories are untested and tenuous. Bombs obey basic physics, the knowledge of which was well in hand in the 1940s. LHC physics is bizarre and relatively unknown. That's why the thing was built in the first place.
His article is very difficult to read. His speculations concerning morality and spirituality do not help much in the way of presenting himself as a competent scientist. I note that his background seems to be biology rather than physics, which doesn't necessarily mean that he's not competent, but it leads one to wonder.
"For if mini black holes do not evaporate as predicted, they also leave no decipherable sign of their existence " at first. So a negative and a positive outcome are indistinguishable."
This sounds correct to me. There's a big "if" in that statement, however, because it would require the theory of Hawking radiation to be incorrect. That's possible. What he is suggesting is that slow-moving mini black holes would be bound to the Earth's gravitational field, sink to the center of the Earth and slowly start gobbling away. It would be some time before we would see any of the associated effects.
"Mini black holes grow exponentially rather than linearly inside the earth: 'miniquasar principle' ...."
This is well known for mainstream black holes, such as Cygnus X-1. Black holes swallow matter up to a maximum rate that is linearly proportional to their mass. As they swallow mass, their own mass grows, so you get a simple differential equation dM/dt is proportional to M, which means that M grows exponentially. Therefore, the eating rate can grow exponentially, as well. The maximum eating rate is known as the Eddington Limit, after the famous British astronomer, who figured this out, albeit in a different context. The thing to note is that any estimates based on linear growth will drastically underestimate the growth rate of a black hole, or, more to the point, the lifetime of an Earth mass. By the way, the fact that he refers to a "miniquasar principle" suggests to me that he is not well versed in black hole physics.
Regarding his point (4), "...only the man-made ones are “symmetrically generated“ and hence dangerous."
I think what he means here is that cosmic rays impact relatively stationary particles near Earth. To conserve momentum, the collision by-products, let's say a mini black hole, will have to rebound and move rapidly away from the collision site. It will simply exit the solar system before it can do any damage. By contrast, in a proton-proton collision, although each beam has enormous momentum, the net momentum (vector addition) is zero. The collision by-products are not required to move rapidly away. At low speeds, any object with mass will stick around.
As nutty as the guy might be, I can see his point. I think the physicists involved are pretty helpless at this point. It's just too hard a problem. Quite the dilemma.
75 - SaneScience
Man's technology has exceeded his grasp. - 'The World is not Enough'
Zealous Nobel Prize hungry Physicists are racing each other and stopping at nothing to try to find the supposed 'Higgs Boson'(aka God) Particle, among others, and are risking nothing less than the annihilation of the Earth and all Life in endless experiments hoping to prove a theory when urgent tangible problems face the planet. The European Organization for Nuclear Research(CERN) new Large Hadron Collider(LHC) is the world's most powerful atom smasher that will soon be firing subatomic particles at each other at nearly the speed of light to create Miniature Big Bangs producing Micro Black Holes, Strangelets and other potentially cataclysmic phenomena.
Particle physicists have run out of ideas and are at a dead end forcing them to take reckless chances with more and more powerful and costly machines to create new and never-seen-before, unstable and unknown matter while Astrophysicists, on the other hand, are advancing science and knowledge on a daily basis making new discoveries in these same areas by observing the universe, not experimenting with it and with your life.
The LHC is a dangerous gamble as CERN physicist Alvaro De Rújula in the BBC LHC documentary, 'The Six Billion Dollar Experiment', incredibly admits quote, "Will we find the Higgs particle at the LHC? That, of course, is the question. And the answer is, science is what we do when we don't know what we're doing." And CERN spokesmodel Brian Cox follows with this stunning quote, "the LHC is certainly, by far, the biggest jump into the unknown."
The CERN-LHC website Mainpage itself states: "There are many theories as to what will result from these collisions,..." Again, this is because they truly don't know what's going to happen. They are experimenting with forces they don't understand to obtain results they can't comprehend. If you think like most people do that 'They must know what they're doing' you could not be more wrong. Some people think similarly about medical Dr.s but consider this by way of comparison and example from JAMA: "A recent Institute of Medicine report quoted rates estimating that medical errors kill between 44,000 and 98,000 people a year in US hospitals." The second part of the CERN quote reads "...but what's for sure is that a brave new world of physics will emerge from the new accelerator,..." A molecularly changed or Black Hole consumed Lifeless World? The end of the quote reads "...as knowledge in particle physics goes on to describe the workings of the Universe." These experiments to date have so far produced infinitely more questions than answers but there isn't a particle physicist alive who wouldn't gladly trade his life to glimpse the "God particle", and sacrifice the rest of us with him. Reason and common sense will tell you that the risks far outweigh any potential(as CERN physicists themselves say) benefits.
This quote from National Geographic exactly sums this "science" up: "That's the essence of experimental particle physics: You smash stuff together and see what other stuff comes out."