The protesters' agenda is pretty broad, and that alone ought to say something about the overreach of corporate influence in our society.
Three weeks into the Occupy protests that began on Wall Street and have now spread to every corner of the nation, bemused and befuddled commentators and lawmakers in Washington still insist on claiming that the demonstrations lack a clear objective or set of demands. But that's not really true.…
Article comments
76 - troll
...assuming they all can hold the physical ground for the process
77 - troll
Rog - one agreement that the occupies are down for is using non-violent civil disobedience at this time
frankly - if this is ignored I think the movement will beat itself silly...literally
78 - roger nowosielski
@77
I agree. Ultimately, the moral force is the only force of account. But holding physical space is essential.
79 - roger nowosielski
There are only twenty thousand occupying Times Sq. tonight. Imagine a hundred thousand or a million?
Physical bodies must be put on the line. There is no substitute.
80 - Jordan Richardson
you will find all ages all colors all gender ids and an amazing assortment of political persuasions rep'd
Quoted for truth.
In Vancouver (wish I could have made it down today) there were elderly Asian males who owned businesses, groups of white-haired women, "anarchists," business suit-wearing Alpha males, hockey fans, people with the day off work (there goes that jobless meme), and so forth. Best of all, the local news featured a soccer mom type who brought her young girls down to the event at the Vancouver Art Gallery to "show them how democracy looks."
This is the beauty of the movement to me, not how many people are where or who's showing up to what and for how long. The magic of this is that it can involve and include EVERYONE.
This is a global movement, not just some fad comprised of hippie kids with no jobs and nothing to do with themselves. It's not about naval-gazing or philosophizing or getting things just so. It's about solidarity, about compassion, about being fed up with inequality the world over (not just in ol' America).
This is a movement that welcomes all sorts of people and shuns those who strive to dominate it with talk of harsh ideology and so forth. It does not belong to a political or economic avenue; it belongs to the people, all of them.
I hope to hell it stays this way.
81 - Jordan Richardson
I think it's important to remember, too, that one of the most prevalent "slogans" of the occupy events is along the lines of "We are the 99 percent."
The second you start to put too fine a point on it (like if you subscribe the notion of anti-capitalism or liberal or conservative or progressive or hippie or anarchist or whatever to the group) is the second that 99 percent becomes a smaller number. There is a strong desire to figure out what the "demands" of the occupants are and the criticism is largely that they lack goals that are concrete, but I think that's the point.
The 99 percent will never agree on goals or ideologies. When the events dissolve, people will crawl back to their lives as conservatives, liberals, anarchists, hippies, drug users, gun nuts, punks, hockey fans, businessmen, activists, and all other forms of human identifiers. But what should be remembered is not what group the people held to or what their labels were. What should be remembered is why they came out, why they stood up and why they were fed up.
82 - troll
too early to tell just how deep an impact it'll have I guess
as for the inclusiveness of it all that's what differentiates it and fuels its possibilities...the occupations have the potential to be tremendous idea generators - so much diverse energy
83 - Clavos
1%
84 - Jordan Richardson
I think it's already had an impact in many ways. One of the more subtle ways is that of showing "normal" people that they can attend a "protest" event with their families and kids and not be overcome by pot smoke and/or tear gas.
It's very possible that OWS could be responsible for opening the doors of dissent to people of all walks of life. If that's all it accomplishes, I'd say it's been a roaring success.
85 - troll
Clavos - are you reping for the 1% or is that simply a dream of grandure?
86 - t
grandeur
87 - Jordan Richardson
Dear Clavos...
88 - Christopher Rose
Demanding meaningful and significant economic reform is great but, for me, if it stops there, this will only ever be just a start and certainly not anything like the full overhaul of the entire system that is required. Anything less than that will probably do little more than buy some time before large scale dissatisfaction starts all over again.
At the very least there needs to be a massive reset of the entire criminal law system, the powers of the state, the security services and military policy throughout not only the USA and the UK but the entire world.
89 - troll
when in an optimistic mood and for no particularly good reason I imagine that a significant impact at any level will have significant impact on all levels
90 - troll
thus the contradiction of capitalist accumulation which is so apparent to everyone these days goes hand in hand w/ that of criminalizing large swathes of the population...maybe that will become apparent too
91 - Clavos
Clavos - are you reping for the 1% or is that simply a dream of grandure?
Neither, troll. I side with them.
92 - troll
...I don't think that we have to worry about them Clavos - at least I haven't heard 'off with their heads' yet
93 - heloise
OWS could be the death knell of Washington DC as the power broker for this country. They are owned by the billionaires. That's the real problem with our government and the global governance as the planet shrinks to less manageable terms.
What has to be made perfectly clear is that not only were the people sold out but it was done with impunity and with deliberateness.
That's at the heart of all the ills that have befallen the masses. From the illegal alien invasion to the dubious packaging of worthless financial instruments it has been done without representation. As for "Who ain't in prison?" It is a legal travesty that people like Chris Dodd have gotten away scott free. He was the slave auctioner in the selling of the people to the banksters and to Wall Street. Then the top tier at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac where are they now?
The reason that states are now implementing the "border fences" in their states in terms of legislation is because they thought that DC was going to do its federal duty i.e., protect the borders and the national interest.
Now the states see that they must protect themselves.
"Two Parties--One Greed"
Heloise
94 - Jordan Richardson
Some of the one percent "side" with the 99 percent, Clavos.
95 - roger nowosielski
Chris (#88) is right in that OWS would be a failure if it stopped with economic reforms. It’s no harsh ideology to be of the mind that the entire economic-political system is long overdue for a major overhaul. To laud OWS merely for having provided a forum for all kinds of people to meet, even if it ultimately fails, is a romantic and a dangerous idea, for it would send a message fo generatations to come that the people can’t effectively challenge their government, that all such efforts are doomed to failure. It’s a risk the brains and hearts behind OWS can’t afford to take. They’re responsible not only to themselves but to future generations.
It’s all about access to public spaces in which to transact the business of politics and reinstate the democratic process (see Anarcissie’s lucid aritcle, "Occupy Wall Street and the Abolition of Public Space"), spaces which are guarded tooth and nail by the powers that be in the name of property rights and by way of coountless ordinances as regards such matters as sanitation, impeding traffic, licensing, anything in the book, all relatively speaking minor and superficial concerns compared to what’s really at stake. And the way they’re being escalated so as to serve major impediments, blocking/controlling/restricting public access to such spaces, spaces in which to exercise the rights to a general assembly, free speech and, generally speaking, to transact the business of democracy, adds the exclamation mark.
The public spaces which the occupiers claim and insist on occupying are at odds with, if not altogether bypass, the conventional venues in which the business of politics as usual and the affairs of the state are conducted on a routine basis, our corridors of power. In a nutshell, the creation of alternative public spaces represents a clear and present danger, an existential threat to the existing and failing socio-political institutions which have no other object in mind but to chuggle along regardless. The property rights and the multitude of ordinances which are invoked in their name by way of enforcement are but a pretext.
If there is one thing which OWS simply must walk away with and claim as victory, it has to be the reinstating of a revolutionary spirit on the part of the people as a permanent feature of everyday living, a democratic spirit which inspires with confidence that when the people set their minds to it to bring about the necessary changes, they can because they are the government. And for that spirit to be ever-present, part and parcel of our everyday lives, and thrive, access to public spaces in which to discuss and participate in the affairs of the day and all matters pertaining to our government and the conduct or misconduct of the state, is a must. It’s the only venue.
There is an important historical precedent in the earliests form of democracy known the humankind, of the Greek city-states, Athens especially. The public square, the agora, was a precondition, an institution without which no Athenian type of democracy would have been conceivable, let alone get to flourish. If the General Assembly served as a stamp of approval, a form of ratification, the agora was the nerve center and the locus. The process is what’s all important; and whatever results may follow, they must proceed from a process set aright.
The present degree of centralization in our society as regards economic and political decision-making poses no conceptual obstacle once we realize that all politics is, at bottom, local and must begin at home.
96 - Cindy
58 Cannonshop Your characterization of the OWS protesters is misguided by your own prejudice. They are the generation of young people who spent the value of a house in student loans and look forward to unemployment and lack of medical care.
If they have no jobs, it's because the decisions of this society has arranged that none are available.
97 - Cindy
Rather than being footloose and fancy free with no jobs, they are unable to support themselves on the legacy left them by capitalism's relentless trickle up of wealth.
98 - Igor
You're right, Cindy.
99 - Jordan Richardson
It doesn't matter if you have a job or don't. It doesn't matter if you're young, old, male, female, whatever.
It apparently doesn't even matter if you're a Citibank customer trying to close your account.
How does the one percent explain this?
100 - Anarcissie
Citibank blamed the NYPD. What happens when you work for The Man.
101 - Jeannie
The Occupy movement brings great hope for the US & world.
"We The People" are now awake and any comparison to the corporately funded TeaParty is just wishful thinking by Dick Army and the Koch brothers.
102 - Cindy
AGENT PROVOCATEUR Caught on video in London
103 - Clavos
Some of the one percent "side" with the 99 percent, Clavos.
Soft-headed as that is, it's their constitutional right, Jordan.
How does the one percent explain this?
They don't have to.
104 - Jordan Richardson
Na na na na boo boo to you too, Clavos.
105 - Zingzing
Looking out for self-interest is now "soft-headed," eh, clavos? The 1% makes their money from somewhere right? And if you're not part of the 1%, how soft is your head? Getting a bit squishy up there, is it?
106 - Cindy
Global revolution: protests in 1,000+ cities -- in videos from Reflections on a Revolution (ROAR) an online magazine.
Croatia and Slovenia on Twitter:
@OccupyZagreb
@OccupyLjubljana
What a beyootiful thing!
107 - Cindy
(Z)ingzing?
keyboard mishap?
108 - roger nowosielski
link doesn't work
109 - Cindy
good link to replace the bad one to ROAR in #106.
110 - Cindy
nightie night, roger :-)
111 - Cindy
Just have to post this from that article. It sounds so good:
"Millions of people took to the streets of over 1,000 cities across the world yesterday to protest against corporate greed and for a real global democracy."
112 - Cindy
Occupy World St.: From NYC to Everywhere
Love it! Giddy!
113 - roger nowosielski
Cindy, thanks for the link, there's a fifteen minute clip from Warsaw.
Amazing, Poland was a socialist country that was tired of socialism and enthused about "freedom" that comes with capitalism. It appeared to have embraced the system.
Until today ...
But then again, the people's struggle for independence and self-determination has always ingrained in the Polish psyche.
114 - zingzing
cindy: "(Z)ingzing? keyboard mishap?"
was typing on work-issued, slave labor-produced ipad, which auto-corrects things and is generally annoying. to decapitalize would have been against my stated policy.
shit blew up today (in good and bad ways), eh? rome was bad, but the burning was apropos, i guess.
i'm getting more and more behind this, both because it's growing, and because that which i'm against is showing more and more weakness. it's gone beyond "we unhappy at the current situation" and has started to become "shit's going to change."
no matter where it goes from this point, the financial industry knows people will only stand for so much shit, and the shit has gone too far. but do they know how to change? i dunno.
115 - roger nowosielski
Take on Germany
116 - Jordan Richardson
Here's what's going on in 15 cities in Canada.
117 - roger nowosielski
The French are lukewarm, but it's only to be expected.
Anything that doesn't originate with them, they tend to disparage.
118 - Jordan Richardson
The mother lode of Occupy Wall Street live streams, featuring streams from New York to Edinburgh.
119 - roger nowosielski
Good find, Jordan.
120 - Clavos
And if you're not part of the 1%, how soft is your head? Getting a bit squishy up there, is it?
Possibly, zing.
But I don't think so.
And I am looking out for my self interest...
121 - Arch Conservative
I see that neither BC nor the world is experiencing a dearth of verbose, moronic leftists.
122 - zingzing
clavos: "And I am looking out for my self interest..."
only to a degree clavos. you can still be fucked over, no matter if there may be a few less in the yacht market. who knows, yachts may become even a more of a status symbol/makeup for the fact that the owner is old and his dick don't work well enough for the trophy wife if your market decreases. and what if the slight tightening of incomes that this movement may produce actually increases your market? what then? choke the seas with your yachts, clavos...
123 - zingzing
archie: "I see that neither BC nor the world is experiencing a dearth of verbose, moronic leftists."
nor with meaningless rightists, archie. what's the point?