Complacency will destroy change and its message. Americans should constantly and continually challenge the political establishment they have just shaken up.
Even just five years ago, it probably seemed very unlikely that a black person would ever become President of the United States. But in a landslide victory over Arizona Senator John McCain, Barack Obama has been elected the nation's 44th President.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Les Slater
Glenn,
I knew those weren't your words but are an example of the euphoria that has overcome many. It was a convenient intro to the NYT article.
"...but we'll see, won't we? After all, 'impossible' is only such until proven otherwise...."
Did you notice in the Times article the reference to the election of Clinton in 1992? Not only was that euphoria misplaced, but that administration accelerated the attacks on social services, democratic rights, doubled the number of cops and funded a huge increase in prison capacity and population. Bush just carried on from where Clinton left off.
Bush deepened the attacks but not out of some meanness in him but as a necessary consequence of the deepening crisis of capitalism. That crisis will not abate with Obama becoming president. It will deepen and Obama will have to continue and deepen the attacks.
Les
27 - Clavos
Let's see, I count Dawn and Heloise and Jordan --who may be foreign but provides true balance-- and Baritone, and ...(gee, I feel like I'm on Romper Room for those of you old enough to remember that) and several others who are far more "fair and balanced" than Dave and Clav for example...
Is it just a coincidence that all those on your "fair and balanced" list are liberals?
Coincidence? I think not.
From over on this side of the fence, you're all just as partisan (if not more so) as any of the righties on here, especially Baritone and you.
Cliché alert:
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
28 - Deano
*shrugs* "Fair & Balanced" is a relative notion, you won't find any winners in that sort of argument.
The current spate of childish back and forthing is a mixture of relieved, giddy excitement from the Obamites that comes across as a bit of unrepentant gloating in the eyes of the McCain supporters.
My suggestion is that everybody take a few days off of this sh*t.
I'm reminded of a quote from Betty Williams (won the Nobel Peace prize for her work in Northern Ireland) -
"Every two or three hours, we ressurect the past, dust it off, and throw it in someone's face."
29 - Glenn Contrarian
"Fair and balanced"
That will always depend on who's judging what's fair and balanced. Perhaps some good indicators are the degree of one's willingness to acknowledge when one is proven wrong, the objective realization of the degree of one's ignorance, and the desire to continually improve one's understanding.
But I will say this: in my experience, the more a person insults, the more likely that person is to have an insecurity issue...and the less likely one is to meet the 'fair and balanced' requirements I listed above.
30 - Baronius
Clavos, she was listing progressives, not "fair and balanced" people.
This is sort of a continuation of the "BC Rocks" thread. We have a healthy mix of left, middle, and right, and all the subgroups. I see that Lee is depicting this election as a failure of conservative values, like McCain represented those. He borrowed a few, despite his voting record. And while Democratic turnout was at record highs, Republican turnout was at record lows. McCain simply never won over his own party.
To me, the defining moment in the campaign was when McCain returned to Washington to rally his party for the bailout. It's impressive that the people judged the candidate based on who he is, which is really all you can hope for. But who McCain is is a guy who shows up, alienates half his party, misreads the politics of a situation, and votes for a massive government scheme. That was the turning point for McCain in the polls.
Did McCain fail because he and Bush have been too pro-life, too anti-government, too articulate about international affairs? When McCain was against Guantanamo, against tax cuts, in favor of immigration and campaign finance reform and fetal stem cell research and regulations to prevent global warming, was he being too conservative?
31 - Ruvy
Lisa,
"Progressives"? That's what you guilt trip(p)ers are calling yourselves these days? Hey, at least Cindy and I are straight up. We call ourselves socialists. Les says he's a communist. Whattsa matta? You can't handle the word "liberal"?
But let's move on just a bit. Arguing over labels is really a waste of time. I honestly do not think there will be another presidential election (those are my religious ideas talking), but assuming that one is scheduled for 2012, believe me, Americans will be sick of the hypnotic rhetoric coming from the newest Nimrod who expects to enter the White House this coming January.
Right now it sounds fresh and wonderful, but after a few months of mellifluous bullshit to keep the crowds quiet, it will begin to pall. Hypnotic words do not pay the bills of a bankrupt country, or provide solidity to an economy that is floating on thin air and about to fall down. Poor people cannot eat hypnotic words either.
And in a few months, you guys will face a major international crisis if Obama does take office. It probably will come in the Middle East, and Obama will do what his immediate predecessor has done, kiss Arab ass. And Americans will not like it.
At that point, all the rhetoric of "hope" and "change" will sound truly empty in the ears of people who today are celebrating. The new boss will look and sound almost like the old boss - well, he'll sound a little smarter....
And then I'm going to enjoy it as you try to defend President B. Hussein Obama.
32 - Zedd
Clavos,
Reagan did not restore Americas image in the world. He started the double taking that has now become all out disgust for us. Sad that you don't know that.
33 - Glenn Contrarian
Zedd -
I'm a liberal, but I have to disagree with you. I know what the attitude of the military was like when Reagan first took office, and what it was like eight years later. The increase in morale, in professionalism, and particularly the end of the Cold War that colored everything we said and did in the military...these I credit to Reagan.
He made a host of mistakes. In hindsight, other than winning the Cold War Reagan did very little that was right; but to the rest of the world Reagan represented America well. He DID restore our image and helped the nation as a whole regain some self-respect.
Maybe you personally don't see things that way, but I'm speaking of the nation as a whole, and that's what I believe.
34 - Cannonshop
Glenn, this is one you aren't going to convince her on-it's like trying to explain the difference in morale between 1991 and 1996 to someone who not only doesn't understand, but also doesn't WANT to understand.
Another way of putting it, is that some folks only see My Lai and Abu Ghraib, they don't think about Fallujah or 73 Easting, the Whale's Back, or the other places where Troops did it right.
Explaining why Mogadishu was a God-damn BETRAYAL just goes over (or under) their detection apparatus, trying to explain why, once committed, soldiers SHOULD expect the full faith and support, even when the policy isn't one they like, is just...futile.
It's a kind of "target fixation", I think. Someone doesn't like the CiC, doesn't like the policy. That's fine, but once the blood is on the ground, you finish what you started. the time to avoid war is before war starts, not in the middle with people on the ground.
35 - Lisa Solod Warren
Ruvy, I don't consider myself a socialist; my views are too complex for that. I'm straight up, too, just not a socialist.
As for responding with the list, that was for Ruvy to add to his small one, Clav. The only one I listed as fair and balanced was Jordan as I don't know what his political affiliation is and he is not an American.
Baronius is very right re turnout and McCain's failure to excite and rally his party.
36 - Zedd
Glenn,
You are talking about internal attitudes. We were seen as hawks externally. Reagan did a lot of line drawing in the sand. You forget the rest of the world is much more socialistic than we are. His paranoid attitudes against socialism, his quickness to demonize those whose ideas he didn't agree with was not impressive to the more intellectual (comparatively speaking) public outside of our boarders. Reagan's cowboy persona was perplexing and base.
What you are talking about is what was marketed to the American public. You guys believed the hype and actually thought that the rest of the world thought we were amazing in every way. Reagan talked A LOT about how how great we were. It was propaganda. Everyone fell in love much like a school girl does to a smooth talking guy who gives her compliments all of the time. As an immigrant it was sad just how needy Americans were for compliments, pushing for you to tell them how great they were. America has always provided great potential. However, it is a place like any other place. You live day to day, doing hum drum stuff like every where else. Americans at that time especially, were so deluded about their grandeur. If you didn't express deep gratitude for landing on this soil and share some horror story about your place of origin, people were almost ready to boil you. Arch is still a remnant of those old attitudes. The slogan was "America, love it or leave it"(?) NEEDY! Instead of fostering an environment where critisism and free thought was welcome, Reagan actually pushed for a bizzare commitment to patriotism, flags, The Gipper and baseball, deeming those who felt otherwise, unAmerican enemies of freedom. The draw to all things American was not boosted by Reagan. If you had credited it to our role in WWII or said Kennedy....
The end of the cold war was significant off course but it was not taken to be a huge image boost for America (outside of America). Reagan was nationalistic.
37 - Ruvy
Zedd,
What you are talking about is what was marketed to the American public. You guys believed the hype and actually thought that the rest of the world thought we were amazing in every way. Reagan talked A LOT about how how great we were. It was propaganda. Everyone fell in love much like a school girl does to a smooth talking guy who gives her compliments all of the time.
Americans haven't changed over 25 years Zedd. A very similar thing as what you describe above just took place over the last couple of months in America with B. Hussein Obama. Count the adulatory and joyous articles in this magazine alone. Look at the admiring poster in this article, or the video in Matt Sussman's article. Read the joy in Heloise's article and the paean of praise in Lisa Warren's. Now, as a "landed" immmigrant, you can not see what was so clear to you as a new immigrant; what is so clear to an ex-pat like me.
Everyone fell in love much like a school girl does to a smooth talking guy who gives her compliments all of the time....As an immigrant it was sad just how needy Americans were for compliments, pushing for you to tell them how great they were.
38 - Clavos
Reagan talked A LOT about how how great we were.
Sorta like the new guy...
Everyone fell in love much like a school girl does to a smooth talking guy who gives her compliments all of the time.
Sorta like the new guy...
it was sad just how needy Americans were for compliments, pushing for you to tell them how great they were.
Sorta like...well, you get the idea.
39 - Clavos
Sorry, Ruvy. Shoulda read yours before I posted mine, but once again we agree on a point.
40 - Baronius
I think that within the context of the 1970's, Reagan was saying something new. We were told back then that the best we could hope for was peaceful coexistence with Communism, but were most likely facing a gradual defeat. We were looking at military loss and economic failure. Reagan said something different.
If any analogy works, it's that Obama sounds like Carter. He's saying that we need to listen to those who are trying to kill us, that America should emulate the dinosaurs of Europe. Where's the feel-good in that?
41 - Zedd
Baronius,
Reagan was aware of the climate, where the Soviet Union was economically and like any politician took credit for the inevitable. While Reagan's attitude may have encourage a sooner demise of the USSR, he didn't cause it. Anyone who would come to that assessment would be reaching a naive conclusion.
Clav,
It's clear you haven't been listening to Obama.
42 - Zedd
Ruvy,
The enormous glee is about the historical event more so than the man. You are usually much sharper. What's going on today?
Clav
You seem a bit punch drunk too. What's up?
43 - Baronius
Zedd, to be honest, I'm uncomfortable talking about Reagan with you. He did great things, and took the fight to nearly every corner of the globe - except to your country of origin. I can't blame you for any ill impression you have of him. But he did take the fight most everywhere, at a time when the Soviet Union didn't look weak at all. I remember the constant talk about Soviet missiles, the loss of US credibility after Vietnam, with the invasion of Afghanistan and the hostages in Iran. Seeing the Russians as weak is a distortion caused by hindsight. Reagan impoverished the Soviet Union; he made it collapse. That wasn't going to happen under detante.
44 - Les Slater
Baronius,
The U.S. lost the cold war. The demise of Stalinism is one prop for world capitalism that doesn't exist, at least not in any credible or powerful form.
This Stalinists sold out many revolutions. Some will claim they wouldn't have succeeded anyway, but they ALWAYS did their best to sabotage any possibility.
Not having a Communist Party in the U.S. supported by a state power will be one less handicap dragging us down as the working class in this country organizes to take the power away from the capitalists who are in a deepening crisis.
The fall of the Soviet Union was a great thing. It works to the advantage the workers of the world.
Les
45 - Dave Nalle
The GOP won't be winning much any time soon unless they can find ways to win over African-Americans, women, Latinos, and young voters.
It was interesting while I was electioneering on election day to compare the local Texas GOP races with the national race. Only the Texas GOP was running black candidates for statewide office in Texas - and they won easily. The few black democrats were running for much smaller offices. And on the whole the GOP candidates were younger and more idealistic than the democrats. There's a huge difference between the grassroots GOP and the establishment, and that establishment is going to have to go.
If you're a black politician in Texas and want to get ahead fast, be a Republican.
Dave
46 - Les Slater
"If you're a black politician in Texas and want to get ahead fast, be a Republican."
Sounds quite noble.
47 - Cindy D
RE #16
Glenn,
That video on the O'Reilly show about Palin, holy freakin' crap! The McCain campaign staff said horrible things about her. Throwing tantrums and papers, being nasty and aggressive, continued spending of money on clothes when they felt she had enough and 20k Todd's wardrobe, blaming people when in fact she did things wrong--like she refused to prep for the Couric interview. They didn't know what to make of it all. Out of character for someone in her position I imagine.
Crazy woman. Whew. (scary to look back)
48 - Dave Nalle
Noble? It's not ignoble. At worst, it's pragmatic. If you think you have good ideas and want to be able to implement them, you have to get elected. There's nothing in the basic philosophy of the GOP which is hostile to the interests of african americans.
Dave
49 - Ruvy
Not having a Communist Party in the U.S. supported by a state power will be one less handicap dragging us down as the working class in this country organizes to take the power away from the capitalists who are in a deepening crisis.
Ever the believer, eh, Les?
A study on left wing kibbutzim in the 1950's concluded that communism was a religion. From the way you wrote that comment above, you proved the anthropologist's point.
50 - Ruvy
The enormous glee is about the historical event more so than the man. You are usually much sharper. What's going on today?
Maybe you forgot this, Zedd. The historical event that occasioned Reagan's election was the alleged embrace of conservative ideology by the American public and the rejection of the liberal ideology that had appeared to predominate.
It was called "morning in America".
Now, you Americans have rejected a "conservative" ideology and embraced a more liberal ideology whose standard bearer appears to be a black man.
And one of our own writers calls it "morning in America" In both instances, the same smooth talk salving a nation that needed to be told it was still great was the "Dr. Good" that was sold - the elixir of hope and change.
You can't see that the same national character, with the same weaknesses made the same embrace. That's because in 1980, you were an outsider. Now you are not.
Sorry, O Zulu warrior princess. Even with my glasses on, I have very sharp vision of what has happened in America. Even seeing it from a third of a world away.
51 - Les Slater
"Ever the believer, eh, Les?"
I examine my beliefs in the light of objective, historical, evidence.
"A study on left wing kibbutzim in the 1950's concluded that communism was a religion."
I am not clear on the semantics of that statement. Are you saying that a 'study of left wing...' who claimed they were communists, investigated by someone outside, rendered a verdict that they, in the group, were really religious? Or are you saying that that this group, who may, or may not, consider themselves communist, decided that communism, is in fact a religion?
Neither way impresses me in the least. Who are the ones making the analysis? What are their qualifications?
Why would anyone looking at anything objectively give any credence to such nonsense?
And besides, anybody living on a kibbutzim in Israel, left wing or otherwise, could not be considered a communist. I presume living on a kibbutzim is a voluntary endeavor. Setting up camp within a colonial settler garrison state can in no way be compatible with communism.
Any communist within any Moscow or Beijing led parties has long ago been expelled. It goes way back, long before the 50's.
Any 'communist' defending the right of Israel to exist would have to be a 'national communist', that's essentially 'national socialist', and we know what that is, right?
52 - Ruvy
Les, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I don't remember the name of the book and sitting in an internet cafe, I don't have the inclination to google it up for you, but google up "Spiro - kibbutz - mapam" and you'll find the work I'm referring to. The kibbutz studied viewed the USSR as its role model and viewed the anthropolgist, Spiro, as an American imperialist. When they realized that he was not trying to smear them, they became somewhat less distant. It is my own opinion that in his assessment of the second generation of kibbutzniks, he sensed this distance from him and did not make adequate adjustment for his own reaction to it.
The kibbutzniks viewed themselves a members of a cell devoted to world revolution, seeking to raise a generation of intellectuals who could work the land as well. The communist beliefs they espoused - NOT THE JUDAISM THEY BARELY PRACTISED - were viewed by Spiro as constituting the equivalent of a religion.
Go look up the work yourself and see what I'm talking about.
53 - Zedd
Ruvy,
You missed it.
"Now, you Americans have rejected a "conservative" ideology and embraced a more liberal ideology whose standard bearer appears to be a black man."
The people that have listen to Obama like him because he says it's not about left or right. It's about solutions.
Ruvy the problem in this situation is that you heard a few statements from YOUR President Elect (you are American) when he was running early on, and you lost all sensability. You got stuck after that and haven't been able to think since. You haven't kept up. You don't know what Obamas ideas are. It's obvious. Tell the truth and end the ranting.
54 - Les Slater
"The kibbutzniks viewed themselves a members of a cell devoted to world revolution, seeking to raise a generation of intellectuals who could work the land as well. The communist beliefs they espoused - NOT THE JUDAISM THEY BARELY PRACTISED - were viewed by Spiro as constituting the equivalent of a religion."
Just as I thought, you don't have the slightest clue as to what a communist is. These are just misguided folksy idealists living on stolen property.
55 - Cindy D
RE: #32 Reagan
Zedd,
"He started the double taking [sic]..."
Yes, including the myth of the Republican as fiscal conservative who reduces government.
A huge spender who increased the size of government.
56 - Baronius
Cindy, Reagan set out to do three things: destroy Soviet communism, restore the economy, and reduce government. He succeeded at two of them. May we all accomplish 2/3 of our life goals, particularly ones on that grand a scale.
I can't fault him too much for failing to shrink government. The Republicans who came after him, them I can fault. You could draw a straight line from Bush Sr.'s lips to Bush Jr.'s bailout and see a decline in ideological conservatism, an increase in the federal budget, and a drop in the number of Republican officeholders.
57 - Cindy D
Baronius,
Just to clarify. I was focusing mostly on the myth, Reagan was just a good example of how it was perpetuated.
Many see the Republican Party as fiscally conservative and for smaller government...and it doesn't seem to matter which Republican or what any of them actually does.
Maybe they don't really care about fiscal conservatism, maybe they really only care about tax cuts?
58 - Franco
The Consequence Of A Barack Obama Presidency
The overwhelming majority of Americans who elected Obama did not overcome racism last Tuesday night. The overwhelming majority of Americans overcame racism long before that or last Tuesday night could have never happened.
The fact that this seems yet to be recognized (as I can find no discussion of it here in any thread) is really disturbing, yet not that surprising, although it should be.
European-Americans (whites) Latin-Americans (tan) Asian-Americans (yellow) and other African-Americans who had built stong families and made a better life, all of these different races have been trying to say this for al long time to African-Americans and those making excuses for them. When they did, they were told they did not understand and that was racists in it self. I know, I spoke up about it quite often over the past decade, and for the 2 years I have been on BC, has have a few others, and that was the retort we got from those betting the drums of racism.
We have a new President now, and the first thing I want to show my appreciation to him for is proving to so many who would not listen to what so many of us already new. Racism is in the minority and has been for some time now. What I celebrate is the fact that finally at long last with his realization there are no more blanketed excuses. Blacks now have an overwhelming majority of Americans, of all colors, who have now made that abundantly clear to them.
This is a profound time of responsibility for black Americans. I support you, I solute you, and I will do all that I can to join hands with you. But you will have to show me you care about that. Don’t come to rage at me about racism, I am not a racist. Its time to let your racist anger go, and let go of those who fan those flames, it holds you back and we have work to do. Let’s get at it.
So good night Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, and hello Martin Luther King!!!!.
59 - Baronius
Cindy - It takes less political courage to cut taxes, that's for sure. The funny thing is, Obama ran to the right of McCain on taxes. A lot of Obama supporters thought they were voting for tax cuts.
60 - Les Slater
Baronius,
No taxes at all are required on those making less than $250K per year.
The capitalist class that runs the government in their interest already collects most of what the workers produce. All social needs should be funded from that enormous wealth which they would otherwise squander.
Les
61 - bliffle
Are tax cuts still an open issue?
I thought that after the experience of the past 7 years, vanished surpluses, spectacular deficits, 10 months of increasing job losses, and an economy that's crashing like the Great Depression, that the theoretical notions about the benefits of tax cuts (to the rich anyway) would be discredited by the empirical evidence.
62 - Cindy D
Baronius,
RE #57 I meant tax cuts for the rich.
63 - Zedd
Franco,
Your statement was dumb. You don't know what racism is. You wont take the time to find out because you think you automatically understand it. You have never tried to research the topic because you assume you know because well, its about Blacks so I automatically know more, somehow. READ first. You are embarrassing yourself. Your knowledge is abysmal.
Off course, you don't care about how stupid you sound because you think the topic doesn't really matter because you are dumb about it.
But I would hush anyway. Dumb is dumb, even if it's about the Black folks. It's just dumb. Shhhhh.
64 - Les Slater
bliffle,
Taxes themselves are just a smokescreen. The bosses get value from the employment of workers. They pay the worker enough to keep him coming back. This is a social relationship. The boss owns the means of production and the worker has only his labor power.
How much is paid in direct wages and social wages is a function of the relationship of forces between labor and capital.
The resources that must be expended on social wage, health care, schools etc, all come from surplus value. Taxes are part of the surplus value of labor that the capitalists designate goes to the government. It is just a means to keep demands off him.
The government of the capitalist class chooses how much to tax. The government can always claim it is broke. The cost of social services should come out of the capitalist's surplus value directly.
Les
65 - Franco
#63 " Zedd
Thanks for proving my point Zedd.
66 - Les Slater
"Thanks for proving my point Zedd."
I'm with you, Zedd. Your 63 appears to be a good appreciation of Franco's 58 as far as his belief that racism is no linger an issue. The outward manifestations may have receded in some quarters but racism runs deep and is nowhere near through playing itself out.
67 - Cindy D
European-Americans (whites) Latin-Americans (tan) Asian-Americans (yellow) and other African-Americans who had built stong families and made a better life, all of these different races have been trying to say this for al long time to African-Americans and those making excuses for them.
This is a profound time of responsibility for black Americans. I support you, I solute you, and I will do all that I can to join hands with you. But you will have to show me you care about that.
I am not a racist.
"No, it doesn't mean that white America has rejected racism. Indeed, I have been quite deliberate for months about pointing out the way that racism 1.0 ["the old-fashioned kind"] may be traded in only to be replaced by racism 2.0 (which allows whites to still view most folks of color negatively but carve out exceptions for those few who make us feel comfortable and who we see as 'different'). And yet, that tonight was a drubbing for that 1.0 version of racism still matters."
"...the success of one man of color does not equate to the eradication of systemic racial inequity."
From: Good, and Now Back to Work: Avoiding Cynicism and Overconfidence in the Age of Obama by Tim Wise 11-5-08
------
How very arrogant of you.
68 - Zedd
It was more dumb than arrogant.
69 - Dave Nalle
Les, I actually agree largely with your #64. I was considering writing an article specifically about this, as it explains why the leftist elite find high taxes and socialism to be to their beneift - they'd rather pay taxes to have the government take care of the people than take personal responsibility for anything.
I imagine that where we differ is that you think that what you described is exploitation of the worker, while I just think of it as the natural and desirable order of society.
Dave
70 - Lisa Solod Warren
Bizarre, Dave. Who ARE these leftist elite who want everyone taken care of and don't take personal responsibility? Are they educated people like me who take care of themselves, DON'T take money from the government, volunteer copiously, give to charity, and are decent, hardworking people, like all the other left wing, well educated people I know?
I can't figure out who it is you are talking about because no one I know who is a supposed member of this ephemeral left wing elite, say, like Obama, yes?, ie., well read, well educated, working a job (or two) and doing as much as they can for their community, raising kids, taking care of aging parents, etc., and taking no money from anyone, paying taxes, and so on; and being good citizens by volunteering in their towns or cities or their kids' schools....going to church or synagogue even... Who ARE those people you are talking about? Hmmmmmm?
Are they the people who also worked for Obama? Or the ones who manned the polls all day? Or the ones who are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy like my friend in the real estate business who has now taken on 2 other jobs because no houses are selling? Are they the ones like my friend who works 12 hours a day at the business she runs for my sister who is disabled? My friend who has five kids and is putting every one of them through college? Or are they the ones like my other friend who took her elderly parents in to live with her at the same time she lent her son money to start his own restaurant?
Let me know, will you?
71 - Cindy D
But you will have to show me you care about that.
I call that arrogant.
72 - Cindy D
Sorry Zedd,
Yes, dumb.
But, I wanted to restate what I said. Because I meant arrogant. Who the hell has to show him anything? How dare he condescend to judge other people's lives based on him small, know-nothing, bigoted presumptions.
73 - Franco
#66 -- Les Slater
"Franco's belief that racism is no linger an issue."
I could not possibly expect anything other then that kind of response on racism coming from a communist. You need oppressed people of race and oppressed workers or you have nothing to say.
The communist mindset always sees the glass half full and exploits it.
However thretening you find it a glass of water half full, the time on the clock for your racist drums are running against you in American.
If would have been nice to have at least seen you solute these mountains of racial freedoms But like I said, the nature of your thinking prevents the natural occurrence of these positives, because they work against you. In your mind, liberated blacks in America working and bettering there lives are only going to become enslaved as oppressed workers. Hence your show of support for Zedd, a black womnan, not agreeing with me.
Your just full of all kinds of optomistic things to say.
Now, I never said that racism was no longer an issue. You can try and put your communist words on my mouth but I will spit them out. Now lets revisit what it is that I did say, and I challenge you to prove my words false!.
(1) The overwhelming majority of Americans have spoken and they have spoken for a black man for President of the United Sates.
(2) There is no way that could have happen without the overwhelming majority of Americans providing such an anti-racist vacuum.
(3) This vacuum of anti-racial freedom must be positively filled, and blacks must fill it for themselfs in the economy. It is their responsible to do so. There is no one else to do it for them.
"The outward manifestations may have receded in some quarters
That is your positive and resounding endorsement for what occurred last Tuesday night? How pathetic Les.
The proclamation from Americans for Obama flies in your face and has in fact shown the vacuum of racism of the majority. That can't be good news for you. The fact that blacks should fill this vacuum and show the world what they are capable of can't be good for you either how you will have to tell them that their freedom will only find them enslaved as oppressed workers. Your just a constant ray of sunshine. Moving positively in this direction will end even more racism and there could be no better way to do it.
"but racism runs deep and is nowhere near through playing itself out."
Never said it was Les, just like it exists between blacks against blacks in many parts of African. The Congo and the 5.3 million blacks killed at the hands of blacks the past 10 years over there? You want to rage on racism and predidice, you're on the wrong continent.
I assert that there are more racism among blacks against whites in American and has been for some time now. I assert this this will only defint thier own cause. I assert that if you cant' make it in America, you can't make it anywhere.
It's sad that you can not share in all this positive and wonderful optimism Les, and join me and others is supporting black Americans in filling this majority vacuum. But I know, it works against your cause, and you must now warn them that there freedom will only allow others to enslave them as oppressed workers like all the rest of us non-business owners. Which is a load of crap. Our system has problems, but not any we can not make corretions to. You avocate scrapping the whole thing for communism. Well let look at the two systems brifly.
Communisim is about total control of everyone and everything by the state. Free maket is about total freedom of everyone and everything by the people, and the states job is to protect those freedomes. We could not be farther apart in the world.
74 - Cindy D
Franco,
You are not only a font of arrogance but also of ignorance.
75 - Franco
#71 " Cindy D
((But you will have to show me you care about that.))
I call that arrogant.
Lets take a look at what you left off my statement above and put it back into proper context. Here is what I said.
"I support you, I solute you, and I will do all that I can to join hands with you. But you will have to show me you care about that. Don't come to rage at me about racism, I am not a racist. Its time to let your racist anger go, and let go of those who fan those flames, it holds you back and we have work to do. Let's get at it."
Seeing that you have shown me you do not care about my support, which you are free to do, it would be interesting to hear however your reasons for rejecting it and taking such a hostle additude over it.
Then we can talk about arrogant.