Mullahs and supposed “holy men” have undue influence over the hearts and minds of a huge swath of Muslims – many of whom are frighteningly, tragically uneducated and wholly ignorant of the truths of their own faith. Of course, the same can be said for hundreds of millions of Christians – their level of ignorance about the forces that really shaped their beliefs is also terribly disheartening.
But there is another, much deeper problem that keeps most Westerners shaking their head as they watch the unfolding horrors in West and South Asia and North Africa. This problem has to do with axiology.
To boil it down – axiology is the study of value. In this case, cultural value. There are three main axiologies operating in the world today. For our purposes, we want to focus on the one that covers the areas under discussion. Axiologies were established, it’s assumed, at least 35,000 years ago. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that they are virtually hard-wired into our DNA.
The foundation on which all cultural interaction takes place is man-to-man. In other words, familial, tribal, ethnic relations DEFINE the entire cultural universe for these peoples. It isn't to say that Europeans, Westerners, don't count these values as important. It's just that, for us, our entire waking world is not suffused with man-to-man axiology. For the Arab it is. EVERYTHING revolves around one's relationship with a brother, sister, wife, child, mother and – this is the MOST important – FATHER. This IS your universe. Always.
Some might be making the leap now – nodding. Patriarchy. Yes, to an extent this is it. But it goes deeper than this. It isn't just that one does what father says. Here, what father says is LAW. And “father” is any authoritative male figure. There is no questioning him – unless you wish to not only put yourself in peril, but risk your relationships with everyone in your universe.
Keeping this foundation in order are the words HONOR and RESPECT. And it is here where the definitions of those words, from a Western perspective, become so warped as to be virtually unrecognizable.
I should add right here that they are distorted, too – to any honest observer WITHIN that culture. Just as the West, with its own axiology, has warped what we consider key values/attributes (but that's a whole other article).
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Foehammer
This article is awash in dhimmitude.
"In Islam there is technically no priesthood. There was never meant to be. Muhammad clearly saw their destructive influence in both Christianity and Judaism. So he never set up a priesthood."
You know his mind? Where is evidence of this? The entire Qur'an is a patriarchal testimony to misogyny and you are trying to make Muhammad out to 1) be believed 2) a wise man and 3) not a pretender and heretical usurper from both Christianity and Judaism for his own personal gain.
Muhammad had no need for a Priesthood because he was the sole ruler of Islam! Why would he create his own hierarchy of potential rivals in his own lifetime?
"However, as he lay dying (in the 11th year of the Hijarah) on May 25, 632 AD, it was reported he wished to lay out certain matters. It is reported/claimed (among Shiites) that he wished to name his successor, (whom they felt would certainly be Ali). But there was some delay on the part of those present in obtaining pen and parchment (and here is where the blood-letting begins that still plagues the world nearly 1,400 years later)."
What Muhammad did manage to do you leave out -- he called for the removal of all religions from Arabia except for Islam. Just a small detail.
"In the West, where individual freedom is prized above all else, we are utterly lost in understanding why anyone, in their right mind, would strap on explosives and willingly stand in a crowd of THEIR OWN PEOPLE and blow themselves up.
Many of those who know Islam have stressed that this is absolutely contrary to the teachings of Muhammad. And it is."
If it's so contrary to Islam, then why is death while waging jihad the only sure means to enter Paradise according to the Qur'an? Seems that the daily suicide bombers of Islam seem intent on it being a meaningful death -- or are they all wrong? If that is so, then where are the Fatwas against the suicide bombing? Where is the outcry? Instead we see Muslims sending gifts and money to the families and putting children and asking them questions like "How many Jews did mommy kill?"
I could go on but, really -- if you write this then you won't pay attention to real knowledge of Islam and the threat of Sharia.
Resources are available everywhere, but it's not profitable to tell the truth, so the lies continue.
2 - P. Marlowe
My god! Have you switched to decaf?? Such a foul mood! Wait, has your team already lost in March Madness?
I never said Islam didn't have elements that to us in the 21st Century appear harsh. Actually I stated that it does INDEED have some of these elements. (I should state I am not a Muslim, just so we get that out of the way).
Islam was far more tolerant - for centuries - toward the People of the Book than the Christians were of peoples of other beliefs in their care. After Constantine there was nothing BUT a steady pogrom against Jews, Pagans, "heretical" elements within Christianity.
Your remark concerning the Arabian peninsula is not complete. Muhammad went to the Christians and the Jews both with open hands â€" in peace. It was only after they rejected him and assisted his enemies that Muhammad stated that there should be no religion in that area save Islam.
But the focus of jihad was against those pagans and polytheists of the peninsula who had already warred against Muhammad and his tiny band of followers.
The point of this article, if you'll care to glance over it again â€" this time with a full cup of REAL coffee in your hand â€" is that the axiology of that region is where a lot of our intellectual battles should be focused.
Just as the Bible have been used countless times to both justify wars and injustices and more importantly hide the real purpose of greedy men, so too is Islam used for such ends.
But it is the man-to-man axiology that LOCKS people into an endless cycle of obligation to follow the familial leader, the tribal leader, the religious leader â€" THIS is the ROOT cause of trouble in that region.
The mullah tells you that paradise will be your reward for blowing yourself up. And you do it â€" not for the reward, most these people aren't that stupid. They do it because their axiology â€" something that is virtually sub-conscious in them â€" pushes toward following these men. They do it with the words HONOR and RESPECT and REVENGE pounded into their minds â€" and the WARPING of those first two attributes that LEADS to REVENGE is buried in THEIR AXIOLOGY.
Islam didn't teach them that. No more so than Christ's teachings told the European to be obsessed with conquest, with obtaining absolute control over the material world, and that all other peoples save the White race are something less-than-human.
You might want to take a moment and wipe your monitor off too â€" I get this image of you spitting all over it in your rant...
P. Marlowe
3 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Marlowe,
I found this an extremely interesting article. I'll have to read this over a few more times to make sure I comprehend what you are attempting to say, and to see if what you say can be applied to Judaism as well. I suspect there is more you your theory than you realize and it is worth investigating.
Oh, by the way, I drink real coffee, and I drink it strong (don't tell my cardiologist)...
4 - P. Marlowe
Ruvy you are truly a man among men! Axiology, as applied here has been around as a theory for well over 30 years. The 3 main axiologies functioning in the world today are: Man-to-Group (primarily Asian); Man-to-Man (Africa, West Asia, Native populations of the Americas, Pacific) and Man-to-Object (European/modern Western World)
More later...
P. Marlowe
5 - moonraven
Here where I live in Latin America we are essentially an Arab culture--with some mix of not-too-unlike indigenous cultures.
The Iberian Peninsula was under Arab control for nearly 800 years--when the Spanish culture and language was being formed--which means when the Spanish (actually many of whom were crypto-Jews and crypto-Muslims) conquered this area, they imposed Arab culture. If anyone doubts it--look at the building styles and look at the language (more than 10,000 words directly from Arabic).
That means here in Latin America the main attachment is the family, just as it is in Arab culture. It has its advantages and disadvantages. Things are neither black nor white.
It's an oversimplification for westerners to try rationalizing their xenophobia and hatred of Arabs and other Muslim cultures by blaming everything on the patriarchy and trying to imply that Islam is the root of patriarchy. That just won't wash.
The patriarchy has been just as oppressive in western culture--look to the Salem witch hunts as an example of the patriarchy being threatened by women's power. Less dramatic examples are also recent.
Women were not allowed to vote in most western countries until the second quarter of the twentieth century.
In the evolution of a species and its cultures, a hundred years is nothing, and a thousand years not a heck of a lot, either.
So let's not crow about being--in respect to some civic rights--a few bats of an eyelash ahead of folks living in Muslim countries. They are also a number of bats ahead of westerners in many respects, also.
I think it was in the New Testament where some religious leader mentioned taking the beam out of one's own eye before complaining about the mote in someone else's.
Still good advice.
6 - jaz
and here it says Latin American countries are predominantly Catholic...
who knew?
7 - Clavos
The predominant religion in Latin America IS Catholicism (if you don't count Bolivarian Socialism :>)), though in recent years it has begun to lose ground to fundamentalist Christian sects.
8 - moonraven
Here in Latin America the dominant religion is catholic--and the dominant culture is ARAB. Please remember that there were Arabs before Islam, and plenty of other folks before catholicism. Again, you are seeing the world in terms only relevant to your own lifetime. Your lifetime, jaz, is not even the bat of an eyelash in the development of cultures.
Sorry if that's too sophisticated for folks who have never lived here or in the Middle East. But that's the way it is.
9 - moonraven
Catholicism came from a Jewish context--but I don't see that Spanish as a language is dominated by...Hebrew....
Thinking wouldn't hurt you one bit. Just try it.
10 - jaz
actually, weren't Romans all over the Iberian penninsula before the Moors?
of course, it is readily acknowledged that the multicultural aspects of Toledo at the end of the Dark Ages, as well as the information and books/translations in study by the scholars there from Arab/Jewish and European cultures were the ignition point for the end of those Dark Times
oh, sorry moonraven...was that all too sophisticated and based on Reality for you?
you should stick to what you know about, and stop the infantile projecting....but then you wouldn't be half as entertaining
11 - jaz
interesting, Spanish is considered one of the prime "Romance" languages...
wonder if that's a derivative of Roman...or Arab?
the Moors did indeed influence Spanish culture in many ways...but to try and infer that Spanish and therefore Latin American cultures are Arab is quite the stretch...an interesting bit for study perhaps... yet hardly relevant
12 - Clavos
actually, weren't Romans all over the Iberian penninsula before the Moors?
Aahh. That would be why Spanish is a Romance language...
13 - moonraven
I AM talking about what I know about. I am a specialist in Language Learning/Linguistics. That's what I teach and create programs about in universities here and in the Middle East.
But I guess I will have to REPEAT myself for the dumbbells who think they are experts now.
The grammar and syntax of Spanish comes directly from Arabic. I was first a Latin specialist, so I am more than aware of the grammar and syntax of Latin--and although it is present in other languages with Latin roots--it is NOT the base of Spanish sentence structure.
One of the biggest complaints I hear from gringos of all kinds both here in Latin America and in the Middle East is the lack of responsibility for one's actions. That comes directly from Arabic, and is repeated in Spanish--as the grammar and syntax of a language is how its speakers see the world around them (ref.: the Sapir/Whorf Hypothesis--based on the anthropological studies of Franz Boaz), in both Spanish and Arabic the reflexive is dramatically prominent in verb forms. Whereas in English I drop a glass of water, I can't do that in either Arabic or Spanish: it falls down from me.
See the difference?
Now I suppose you are going to try to tell us that Spanish culture is Roman? Rome as an empire was history before the Arabs invaded the Iberian Peninsula and took control of it.
If you look at the dates of Spanish history, 1492 is a big one--the expulsion of the Arabs and Jews AND the first voyage of Cristobal Colon took place then. That voyage came in this direction. And shortly after that was the Conquist of Mexico by Cortés and Co.
Until that "reconquering" in 1492 on the part of Isabela and Fernando, the dominant culture was Arab--they were literate, for Christ's sake.
And that culture came to what is now Latin America--it is the same. The buildings are Arab buildings. They are the same buildings I see when I am in the Middle East. The food is a mix of indigenous and Arab food here. Even our tacos al pastor are the pork version of the Arab lamb ones!
Some evidence of what I am saying: when I was in Jordan in 2005 and spoke almost no Arabic (and there English is not widely spoken compared to the Gulf States) I was able to communicate and get around using the words in Spanish that I know come from Arabic!
I believe I have posted this information on this site before--several months ago.
But the ignorant have short memories.
14 - moonraven
If you want something REALLY simple, do a google search on Arab influence on Spanish culture and language--or check wikipedia.
It never fails to amaze me how folks who know nothing whatsoever about Latin America and the Middle East shoot off their ignorant mouths about how I know nothing about the areas where I live and of whose cultures and languages I specialize in.
Must really be something to be a redneck in the US and know it all--without every leaving the barcalounger and turning off the t.v.
Nice work if you can get it. Truth is, you can't.
15 - P. Marlowe
Moonraven... I like that name by the way... you might want to re-read the original post:
"It's an oversimplification for westerners to try rationalizing their xenophobia and hatred of Arabs and other Muslim cultures by blaming everything on the patriarchy and trying to imply that Islam is the root of patriarchy. That just won't wash."
I said that Islam IS NOT the root of such patriarchy. I also stated that AXIOLOGY goes beyond SIMPLE patriarchy.
The "blame" isn't the axiology as such. Looking at an axiology is simply a way of discovering patterns of "racial" behavior that cannot "simply" be explained by other cultural forces.
Try and not get tripped up here. As far as assigning blame in that region AMONG the Muslims I have stated here.
The blame rests with the mullahs continually calling for a holy war, calling for young folk to strap on bombs and blow up themselves and innocents. The "holy" men who subsist on the hatred they stir up DEPEND in part on the IGNORANCE of their fellow Muslims concerning the truth of what the Qu'ran states as well as the history of the Prophet, they DEPEND in part on the desperate conditions that exist among the masses, they DEPEND lastly on the WARPING of the VALUE SYSTEM (axiology) of that part of the world.
This last is what I was pointing out: the man-to-man axiology of this region lends itself to a cycle (and level) of violence that is not seen elsewhere. The WARPING of the concepts of HONOR and RESPECT - within the context of THIS axiology LEADS to this.
P. Marlowe
16 - Clavos
MR:
You have read Professor Ralph Penny's book, "A History Of The Spanish Language," haven't you?
Surely you have.
In his introduction, Professor Penny, of the School of Modern Languages at Queen Mary, University of London, and acknowledged worldwide as an expert on the Spanish language and its history, clearly states that the principal root of Spanish is Latin.
Professor Penny of course acknowledges the importance of the Moorish occupation and its influence on Spain and Spanish, but he also points out that Spanish is grammatically and syntactically a Romance Language.
Much of the introduction of Professor Penny's book, including the two comments above, is available online here.
17 - Victor Plenty
Arguing whether Spanish is more influenced by Roman or Arab roots is quite irrelevant to what Mr. Marlowe is talking about here. The Romans, like most of the Mediterranean peoples, were steeped in the same "man-to-man" axiology that percolates up from Arab culture to infect the Islamic world and turn its people away from the principles of Islam.
So in this context it makes no difference whether one thinks of the Spanish and their Latin American inheritors as Romans, as Arabs, or as something else distinct from both. What all these groups have in common, if I understand Marlowe correctly (and if he's right) is something far older than even the Roman conquest of Iberia. And perhaps far deeper than even the grammatical structures of one's language, although I'll leave others to debate the merits of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.
If Marlowe can piss off a spittle-spewing crypto-racist Crusader-wannabe like Foehammer, there must be something to what he's saying here.
18 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I'm only thinking out loud here, not trying to set down views opposing or confirming what I see. Bear that in mind when you jump all over them...
If I understand the author correctly, Mohammed was a humanitarian in a vicious and brutal culture, trying to shepherd it along a route to more humane behavior. Once he died, the mentality of the culture he was trying to shape reshaped Islam in its own image. So the hadiths, set down after Mohammed died, emphasized those aspects of the local Arab culture that the people living it viewed as important, as opposed to what Mohammed himself might have viewed as important.
I would note here that there is a religious order within Islam, the Sufi, who have roots that are older than Islam. They, to my knowledge, follow a more humanitarian and peace-loving version of Islam than what many of us are familiar with.
19 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
A note on Marthe's comments on Spanish and Arabic in terms of the seeming lack of willingness to accept responsibility (comment #13). This is not merely true in Arabic or in Spanish culture, it is true in Hebrew as well, and in Israeli culture.
"T'aĂşt naflá" - "a mistake fell" is used instead of "I made a mistake". One could say "t'aĂti," "I erred," and if a person is not talking to a "crowd" he might well say this. But if an "outsider" is present all references to personal taking of responsibility will almost surely disappear.
20 - P. Marlowe
Ruvy... Certainly Mohammad can be seen from a number of different vantage points. In the West we tend to immediataly dismiss the notion that he WAS a prophet of God. No matter that Mohammad recognized Moses and Jesus, as well as the Bible as legitimate. The West rejects the notion of any type of Progressive Revelation. The stopper - for the West, were the horrid battles that took place in the 4th Century over the issue of whether Jesus was or was not God. Once the Nicene Creed finally won out (actually only JUST before Mohammad declared His mission)there couldn't possibily be any rapprochement let alone investigation of Mohammad's claims...
Looking at Mohammad's mission from this perspective (the way a Muslim might) one might reconsider various elements of Islam.
All of this though, while fascinating to discuss is outside the current discussion.
Religious fanaticism of ANY kind is a horrible thing. The only difference between the various fanatics is HOW they SPIN their message to those who are a part of THEIR AXIOLOGY.
Thanks Ruvy...
P. Marlowe
21 - S.T.M
Ruve wrote: I would note here that there is a religious order within Islam, the Sufi, who have roots that are older than Islam. They, to my knowledge, follow a more humanitarian and peace-loving version of Islam than what many of us are familiar with."
The Sufi are totally different. The whole basis of their belief is to live a spiritual life based on tolerance, forgiveness, love and compassion and doing good works and seeking the presence of and submission to the will of a kind, loving and benevolent God in all that they do - even in the mundane tasks performed day to day. Which of course means they are considered not to be following the true path by some radical sects of Islam
22 - Nancy
From what I can tell, the Romans were pretty patriachal as far as 'society' goes, too. Even the terminology is Roman/Latin for 'father'. So what's the difference between them & the Arabs? Not a helluva lot, it would seem. Additionally, I would question the dichotomy between man-to-group & man-to-father (asians vs african/arab). The asians are just as patriarchally oriented as the arabs are, and the arabs just as familially-bound as the orientals. It really is the same cultural trait; no difference at all. The big divide, it would seem, is actually between the modern western man-to-object, in which familial ties are actually discouraged in favor of individualism & questioning/defying authority, & the more traditional, world-wide cultural 'norm' of patriarchal domination & obedience, with smaller family unit patriarchs being subserved to larger group heads (always male). Throughout the world, this has been the main constant. The perpetual victims, of course, have been women.
From what I have observed directly & had observed to me by those who have lived there, S. American catholicism isn't terribly close to traditional European catholicism, but contains considerable infusions of animism, both native & african. Witness the S.Am. tradition of conferring the stature of sainthood on figures that are actually connected w/african voodoo spirits, etc. & making them into 'santos'. The rites & rituals (aside from the core of the Mass proper) are different & evolved too. It's almost a different religion. IMO, it IS a different religion, as alien to a European catholic as it would be to a US protestant or an Israeli jew.
What I got as the nut of this piece was that this ideology being hardwired like DNA, it's unlikely anyone is going to be able to coax, educate, or pry any of these people out of it - at least for the next 10,000 generations? Did I read that correctly?
23 - P. Marlowe
Nancy! Good of you to chime in! Well, on that last "nut". I would say that we are at a stage in world development where we can ALL be aware of the axiology that drives us - as a people and as individuals. If we all recognize it in ourselves, in others, we can at LEAST begin to discuss it.
However, the first thing the West needs to do - indeed should have done some time ago when these radical mullahs showed up was to take the intellectual war (at least, and from there who knows) to THEM. Attack the basis of THEIR WARPED ideologies. Speak directly TO THE PEOPLE of that region and remind them of their great heritage - and of the great strides many millions of their people make when OUT FROM UNDER the yoke of this and other forms of oppression in their lands.
The next would be to ADMIT the mistakes the West has made IN RELATION TO the Mid-East. And here I AM NOT speaking specifically about the issue with Israel. Let's take that OFF the table for a moment because it was put ON the table by these men so intent on doing evil...
There is a lot to be discussed. But can the negative elements of an axiology be overcome? Sure. With recoginition and work.
Gotta run
P. Marlowe
24 - Clavos
Nancy writes:
Witness the S.Am. tradition of conferring the stature of sainthood on figures that are actually connected w/african voodoo spirits, etc. & making them into 'santos'. The rites & rituals (aside from the core of the Mass proper) are different & evolved too.
Close, but not quite.
You are correct in that there is widespread practice of African-origin ritual and god worship, mostly in areas where there were Black slaves imported. Brasil, where it's called Candomblé, and most of the Caribbean and adjacent South American coasts, as well as Miami, where it's variously callled Santeria or voodoo (or vudu), are the areas with the most numbers of practitioners.
My wife and I were privileged, one New Years Eve in Brasil, where Candomblé is openly practiced and is legal, to attend a traditional ceremony in homage to Iemanjá, the goddess of the sea.
In it, each Candomblé church stakes an area on the beach out for their own, builds an "altar" by piling up sand and sticking candles in it. As the evening begins, they dance around the altar, and engage in call-and-response singing (NOT in Portuguese), until midnight, when they launch handmade little "boats" loaded with offerings to Iemanjá into the water. Tradition has it it that if the boats float out to sea, she has accepted the offerings and the offerer will have a good new year. If they don't go out, you'll have bad luck for a year.
As it happened, the year we were watching, a BIG storm had passed previously, and the surf was very high, so all the little boats kept being washed back up on the beach. Finally, several young men plunged into the water and pushed the boats out beyond the breakers so they would stay out. I told my wife that that looked like cheating to me, and Iemanjá was probably not going to be happy about it.
The Church, however has most emphatically NOT adopted those practices; what does happen, though, is that many people practice BOTH religions and THEY do the mixing, particularly in their homes, where it's not uncommon to see altars with a mixture of icons.
If the Church had its druthers, it would (and has tried to) stamp all the spiritualistic stuff out. But the traditions are too old and too strongly ingrained in the people, so now in many places (including here in Miami) it's practiced quite openly.
25 - moonraven
Clavos actually posted a related link!
One problem, though: Apparently he did not READ the introduction, or at least not section 1.3.2 which talks about the dramatic changes in the language due to the conquest by the Moors and the inculcation of ARABIC!
Nice try, gusano, but--as usual--your ignorance is only superseded by your belief that thisposter doesn't bother to read links posted as sources for opinions. While it is obvious that YOU and your host Dave NEVER read any links, it's dangerous for you to PROJECT that behavior on others.
It's a bit academic, anyway, as when we are talking about CURRENT language and culture, we are not talking about the time of Julius Caesar's COMMENTARIES (first year Latin course reading).
CURRENT Spanish culture and language have nothing to do with Roman times--and everything to do with the dominant culture when they were developing--in this case ARAB culture.
Here in Latin America, even when we are speaking without the 10,000 Arabic words in Spanish, we say, "Si dios quiere" (which is exactly the same as saying Inch'allah in Arabic--if God wants it in English) and even Ojala (which is followed by a subjunctive form and is essentially a short version of Inch'allah).
I am not going to go through all of the thousands of similar examples. I don't have to. Even a blockhead like you should have gotten the point--which is:
LATIN AMERICAN culture is ARAB culture.
Please note that I did not say "SPANISH" culture--as Spain has been subjected to a lot of other influences since the Reconquist of 1492 (especially since it was conquered by Napoleon).
Latin America has not had the same intensity of outside influence.
For me it's great--as I go back and forth from Latin America to the Middle East with zero culture shock and no adjustments.
Ruvy, You are correct about Hebrew also relying heavily on a reflexive world view in its grammar--clearly because it is related closely to another Semitic language: Arabic.
As for the OP--frankly, I see you grasping at straws to sustain an anti-Arab and anti-Muslim posture--nothing more.
As subsequent posts indicate, if one goes back and looks at the origins of behaviors we could soon find ourselves looking at the walls of caves.
It might be more appropriate to indicate that the HUMAN SPECIES has a propensity for gratuitous violence--and RATIONALIZATION of same--that is simply not seen in other species.
One of the reasons that our days are numbered....