Hugo brought us together in our hatred of him. That is something to thank him for.
The entire United States of America is outraged by Hugo Chavez’s speech at the United Nations the other day. In this speech he referred to Bush as the Devil and commented numerous times on how the U.N. smelled of sulfur since Bush’s speech.…
Article comments
26 - Brad Schader
Embarressing for you. I am sorry that national pride and unity only comes to you with a bodycount. I am sorry we must always put the man above the office. I am sorry we do not value the President anylonger. I am sorry for a lot of things I have seen politically over the last 15 years.
I would never tell you to leave this country, just to re-examine what this country means. Any President serves only 8 years at most, but the office of the President is eternal. Bush has said many bad things about other world leaders, but he has been nothing but respectful while in thier nations. Why can no one understand that Chaevz felt entitled to come here and say those things which he would NEVER allow someone to say in his country about him?
27 - BWE
"I honestly think that this entire country has lost its mind, and reading the comments in this blog doesn't help. How are all of you so blind to the fact that Hugo Chavez is a dictator. He has the guile to stand up and insult the leader of the free world while at the same time quashing all forms of free speech in his own country."
That is not exactly true. Nor is the rest of that post. He wasn't a "Dictator" (meaning he messes with elections and rules with some martial law/ extra police power) until we Americans Kidnapped him, bankrolled a PR campaign for an opposition party, placed the members of that party and started undermining his domestic operations that began as voter mandated things.
And, um, unfortunately, Bush has so denigrated the position of POTUS that there is no longer respect from people who prefer not to have his particular stain upon their own conscience.
I for one am sad to see that there is anyone left to respect the office after it has been so abused and prostituted. I don't think we have any moral highground left to stand on except in our opposition to the military-industrial economy we have become and the leaders who have unabashedly committed fraud and intimidation to take elections rather than win them. We do not have an elected executive branch, remember.
28 - bmanley
Bush makes it pretty hard to stand behind the office...we barely have a Constitution left anymore, much less a respectable office.
If the big deal is that Chavez did this on our soil, then maybe the UN should be moved out of the US and take his offer to have it in Venezuela.
And I agree with some of the other comments--Bush calls other leaders "evil" all the time.
Besides, these are only words, not bombs being dropped on civilians. You want to talk about an abuse of power, I'll take Chavez's words over Bush's wars.
29 - Jabba
John, say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean Chavez should be allowed to insult our president without anyone getting upset over it. And FYI, Bush's comments about Chavez are legitimate. See my previous post about how Chavez is a communist dictator. He tried to institute a coup in his country in 1994 (very fair and democratic, ha), he nationalized private oil companies by stealing them from citizens, he completely rewrote (literally) the constitution of Venezuela immediately after taking office, he fired over 190 federal judges because they didn't agree with him, and he instituted a prison sentence for any reporter or citizen who speaks out agains him and his government. He IS evil, and he is in the wrong, and no matter how much you hate Bush, Chavez is indisputably a bad leader and a bad person.
30 - Brad Schader
I am not defending Bush so much as attacking hypocrasy. Chavez is an evil man. He is allied with Syria and Iran. He has not said "Bush is the evil of the world", he said America is. Do you think his beliefs on this subject will end Jan 20, 2009?
We were having problems before Bush and will have them after Bush. Everyone here wants to keep fighting amongst ourselves instead of trying to fix things here. YES, THE FIGHTING IS THE PROBLEM!
Right now the world is uniting against us while we tear ourselves apart. IT seems most here want it that way. Too bad. I will mourn the America of my youth and sadly enter the Amerika of your dreams.
31 - Jabba
Brad,
I totally respect that opinion. You don't have to love Bush, or even like him, but at least you are thinking about the entire situation with your brain and with logic rather than relying on emotions and having no basis to back them up. I happen to like Bush a little, I definitely don't agree with him on everything, and I definitely think he has made some bad decisions and mistakes. With that being said, I don't think and can't see how anyone would think that any US president would ever purposely do things he thought were bad for the country. You make such great points and do it in a very non-partisan way. If we don't stop fighting amongst ourselves (not stop disagreeing, because sometimes diagreement is good, but stop fighting and relying on our hate of "the other side" to guide our opinions rather than logic and facts) and realize that, yes the world may dislike us because of some of Bush's policies, but the REAL reason they dislike us is out of jealousy that we are the strongest, richest, most free and best nation in history. If we don't realize this and unite, we will fall.
32 - bmanley
We will fall because of policies/actions Bush & co are passing/taking. And to think that every president has acted with a love for this country & its best interests in mind is pretty naive. You dont think power or greed everenter into the picture. This is especially true with the Bush administration. Was Iraq done to actually help America? What good has it actually done? Maybe you're right in that certain actions arent taken that are done to be necessarily detrimental to the US, but I think they are some that have been done that are decided without giving any care to what happens to the US, or how it will affect it.
And to follow that whole line of logic that they hate us for our freedom is even more naive. Our foreign policies in the Middle East have been so harmful and lopsided to them for the past 50 years, they can ONLY perceive us as occupiers...
Most free? --->NSA.
33 - Jabba
bmanley, if you don't think this is the best country and most free country in the world then why do you choose to live in it and not somewhere else?
34 - bmanley
Trust me, at times I have considered that option.
However, that is that boring cliche comment that hardly deserves a response. "If you don't love it, leave it." Nah, I can disagree with its directions, hate it, love it, frown on its motives, critique it all to hell, and hopefully see impovement as some point. I dont know what "the best country" is, largely because I havent been to all of them, I dont consider all of the countries' on the earth in some kind of contest to see whose "the best." Either way, I dont feel like I have to leave my own country because I don't blindly follow it wherever it goes. or because I try & take into account the existence of other societies on this planet, and not just the idea that we are the one and only, and deserve it all.
35 - Jabba
I'm not asking it as a cliche, I actually would like a real reason. If you dislike the way things are in this country, and if you truly do not believe that it is the best, why would you live here. I would never live in Venezuela, because that country and all South American countries suck compared with us. This is not me being discriminatory or unfair, it is simply the truth. I know my country is the greatest country in history and if anyone would try to argue that point then they would have a very hard time indeed. If you want to agree with many other countries in the world and say that we are bad people and that we deserve to lose or that we should feel bad for being the most powerful nation ever, then go ahead and invest yourself in America's defeat. I, on the other hand, will never stop defending my country.
36 - bmanley
In your eyes, what makes this "the greatest country in history?" Not saying its not; but not saying it is...
As far as agreeing with other countries and saying we're bad people--I'm looking at facts, not other countries opinions, to make up my mind. And yes, we've done some REALLY bad things....I'm definitely NOT saying this is the worst country in the world, but we do lie, we instigate violence in order to further imperialistic agendas, we do support violent and abusive regimes if they scratch our backs, we spy on our own citizens, we conduct secret wars, we falsify information for propagandic purposes, we ignore the poor in our own country--these are not GOOD things.
Yes, we've definitely done "good" benevelant things, but the whole picture is kinda necessary.
I do love certain aspects of this country, but its tough for me to support our leaders when they invade other countries to take over and secure oil interests and our presence there. Or, when we violate international laws and torture people.
I tell you about it in person when we meet while in line for the draft after we invade Iran in October.
37 - delicious
Jabber,
A short lesson in German would help you understand the satire of it all. The word heil was the one word worth writing there. The reference to Germany and Nazi propaganda is so fitting for the direction this "don't ask AND SURE AS HELL DON'T TELL" country is taking.
Is it really that hard to see? I've been told the repubs don't get it. I now know what they don't get. Satire and irony. Thanks for helping me figure that out.
38 - john henry
to Jabba: I went back and read your original post dont see any argument. You seem to be saying this is the way it is and I dont see any underlyng facts just conclusions. Maybe Chavez is a dictator but from what I see recently the right wants Mr. Bush to have dictator powers- star chamber powers are the essence of a dictator. I worry more about the things I supposedly have a say in -- what this country is doing than I do about Chavez. These matters, the issues about which you speak, are almost never issues of absolute good and absolute evil as the right pretends. This is simply a dose of your own medicine. Your argument seems to be if you criticize W in any thing but the most tentative and polite manner you can be called a Bush Hater and your argument ignored. To me you sound like a Bush Lover and therefore we can all ignore you. This is not reason this is name calling. I really dont hate Bush but I think you are blind to the fact that he literally seeks the powers of a dicataor and does things that reasonable people might think are evil. Whether he is justified is a legitiamte question. We live a world where most actions can have both an evil and good consequence. Adam ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Our human issue is making choices that have both potentials and often both good and evil effects. Calling people evil as a underlying approach is an abdication of our responsibility. I do not hate Bush but I do hate much of what he does. One of those things he does is abdicate the responsibility and just call what he opposes Evil. Chavez has mimiced this. If you are upset with Chavez, why not also Bush. He is always calling other leaders Evil. I suspect that most who rise to great political power in any country are all a little on the evil side of the equation- Chavez and Bush.
39 - john henry
to Jabba I also feel that the commentator on the right are not addressing my question either. If it is alsright for Bush to use the Good v. Evil theme and call others EVIL-- why Oh why is it not OK for Chavez to call Bush (D)evil too? The left and right pass each other in the night no one wants to come to the truth. A truth that might be somewhere between one view and another. I think the good v. evil stuff is largely why the discussions are like this. I havent heard liberals pushing this sort of gnostic view of everything- blackblack or white white. Oh If you would like me to go somewhere else because I am critical of what this administration does why didnt Rush leave the country when Clinton was in office. He had the wealth to. Most of us cannot afford to.
40 - Dave Nalle
JH, the difference is that Chavez IS evil by an objective standard, while Bush is just called evil by a lot of people for partisan reasons.
Dave
41 - Dr. Kurt
I would argue that anyone who seeks the power of life & death over others (by whatever means), and then uses it to cause harm (i.e., starting wars), is evil. Chavez, Ahmedinejad, Castro, Hussein, and yes, Bush, all fit this sad bill. There is nothing partisan about that. All dictators need to go - all of them. Will we ever outgrow the need to be bossed around?
42 - John
Many good points here, let me address a few
Brad - Sorry, but I can't be faithful to a person holding an office, I have to be faithful to what the person holding the office is sworn to protect, namely the Constitution. And in my opinion, Bush has beaten up the Constitution pretty badly. Creating a class of people ("enemy combatants") who are not entltled to the same protections that make this country great. Encouraging torture to extract information. Being able to try people with secret evidence. Sure, while some who are captured are bad people, there are documented examples of many who are caught in legal limbo and are innocent. I'm sure if you were somehow identified as a "enemy combatant" you'd quickly want the rights that you are used to now.
Jabba - Sorry, but I can't agree that people dislike us because we are "the strongest, richest, most free and best nation in history." It is this sort of bravado that would put off just about anybody. I put your statement in the same category as Bush saying "they hate us because of our freedoms." What people hate is that we act like the schoolyard bully, stumbling about causing trauma and damage, and then wondering what happened when some choose to fight back. And not being insightful enough to realize that part of the hatred is due to our prior actions.
Dave - Let's try to set a baseline for evil, shall we? Can we agree that it is evil to harm or kill others? Can we then agree that starting a war based on cooked intelligence, which has resulted in the killing of both US soldiers and Iraqi civilians, is evil? Or sitting on the sidelines while Israel lobbed good ol' US-made cluster bombs on Lebanon? No doubt there will be plenty of innocents in Lebanon who will get an apendage blown off, or die, due to our supplying Isreal with all of these goodies. And for what? The "kidnapping" of two soldiers? Of course, when Israel does it, it is called "arrest."
For those who are saying we should "love it or leave it," are you suggesting that we "cut and run?" It seems that most of the warhawks are disgusted by such an attitude, except when it comes to those who value what once made our nation great, and are trying to restore it. I will certainly not "cut and run" as long as I think I have a chance to speak out, protest, and make the US the great nation it once was.
43 - JP
Georgio, Chavez is a LEFTIST. He does things that aren't beneficial to American corporations.
Therefore, he is Bush's enemy.
44 - cm
I'm not positive, but I think the "idiot" comment was made by Jon Stewart on The Daily Show. If I recall, what he said was, "He may be an idiot, but he's OUR idiot."
45 - JA
Very nice JOHN:
"Sorry, but the entire United States is NOT outraged by the recent comments aimed at Bush. And despite the statements of the flag waving crowd, Bush could be considered responsible for the death of innocents in many parts of the world, due to our endless stream of military adventures. Don't pretend that everything that Bush and the US has done throughout the world is puppies and rainbows. People DIE because of our actions. Plus, Bush has done about the same with comments aimed at Chavez. They're both acting like little kids in a sandbox. And to suggest that the post-9/11 unity of the American people, from the death of thousand of innocents, should be on the same level as the supposed outrage over words, is just embarrassing.
I'm sure the flag waving crowd would now suggest that if I don't like it here I can leave. My response is that this is my country too, and it is my job to help fix it so we don't become hated worldwide. The actions of Bush are leading us in that direction."
and BILLY:
"It takes a madman to tell another madman the truth."
46 - Kelly
Uh, the whole U.S.A. was not offended by his comments but thanks for speaking for all of us.
47 - Zedd
The most important thing about Chaves' comments is that they represent what a large portion of what the rest of the world thinks about our leader and moreso us for voting for him. This was a world forum. The poeple of the world get to say what they think.
48 - Zedd
I am amazed as to how we are perfectly fine with our leader calling people, no, entire countries EVIL but we get upset when he is referred to as the devil.
49 - Zedd
Nancy Pelosi is a politician. We however are THE PEOPLE. If we think that Bush or anyone is evil, dumb, embarassing or whatever, we should screem it from our roof tops. That is what makes this country so great. The one way to preserve that which is good about America is to speak out proudly about what we do not agree with. Unity is what dictators preach. Democracy is about standing up and making sure that your voice is heard no matter how divergent it may be.
The paranoia about “them against us Americans” is just weird. We are the big guns, the polluters, war mongers, we hold the purse strings. We are not victims. What do we need to unite for or against?
I suppose, if anything, we should unite around the idea that we need to get our act together. People are getting sick of us. It's ridiculous to unite that if we kick them too hard and they get angry, we should unite around the fact that they shouldn't say ouch!
50 - acin
We don't need the petty criticism of Chavez and the like to unite us. My feeling is that a touch of isolationism on the part of the U.S. would work wonders. I'm a little tired of this country being the world's whipping boy; of the expectation that we should solve the world's problems whether its economic, military, humanitarian etc. We finance so much of the world's foreign aid that if it was spent in this country it would go a long way to solving many of our problems. Minding our business would preclude being a target for petty tyrants such as Chavez and the bumbling mistakes by presidents such as Bush. Pay a fair price for foreign goods and charge the same for ours, but apply the same protectionist policies aimed at us. As to foreign aid, tell them that charity begins at home. I suspect we would hear a different tune from the Chavez's of this world and the leaders at the UN who laughed at his diatribe against us. As far as I'm concerned the desire to solve our country's problems is the catalyst that should unite us.
51 - Shari
As for #51, the can of worms that'd be opened if the U.S. started installing protectionist economic policies and isolationist politics would be immense and almost certainly to the disadvantage of the States. The door swings both ways on protectionism and the U.S. exports a great deal. U.S. businesses would have some serious problems and China, which would likely be seriously affected, might start calling in some debts.
As for your last statement about how our desire to solve our country's problems should be a catalyst to unite us, most people in the U.S. aren't interested in anyone's problems but their own. That isn't meant as an insult. It's simply a fact. It's the result of living like a nation of kings who feel that they deserve everything they want and get angry when denied any little thing. In a culture of entitlement, people always see their lives as deficient (even when they have a lot relative to the rest of the world) and develop little empathy for others. It's the reason Republicans get elected by talking about lowering taxes. People would rather help themselves to a new T.V. than help their neighbors pay for medical care.
With that sort of self-centeredness, no one is ever going to unite over solving the problems of the nation.
52 - Peter J
The problem is not what Chavez said, what he does, or what he is.
The problem is what Bush says, what he does, and what he is.
Bush says he has nothing against a dictatorship, just so long as he is the dictator. That was the most sombering remark I've ever heard from any prior president of the United States.
Bush lies to the nation he has sworn allegiance to and commits our country to war, taking thousands upon thousands of lives and horrifically mutilates many more under the guise of these lies.
What he is, I don't know. He says he's the "decider", I suppose there is a suitable moniker befitting him. It's easier to tell what he is not.
He is not, by any means or terms a Christian as he professes. If he were a true believer he would not have a moments rest, knowing that upon his death he will surely burn in the flames as no amount of contrition will avail him entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. Just the fact that one life is lost as collateral damage would stain his soul, as a true Christain would believe. For him to hold onto his Christian shtik would mean that he is either a lying non-Christian genocidal maniac or he is suffering from psychosis and I pity him. I pity more the men, women, and children murdered or mutilated because of his actions.
I didn't vote for him, I owe nothing to him, and I have no feelings as to whether he lives or dies.Why the hell should I care what some other monster from another part of the world calls him?
53 - LUIS
JABBA THANK U FOR TAKING THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH. I AM A VENEZUELAN.AND MY WISHES IS HE LOSES IN THE ELECTIONS IN DECEMBER.WHAT I WILL SAY TO YOU AMERICAN WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.IF U READ ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN VENEZUELA WITH THIS WANNA BE DICTATOR CALL HUGO CHAVEZ. U WOULD NOT BE BASHING YOUR PRESIDENT BUSH LIKE THAT. SO IF U WANT TO COMPARE BUSH AND CHAVEZ. READ THE NEWS OF VENEZUELA AND U WILL SEE WHAT A JERK HE IS.AND U WILL THINK THE SAME WAY I THINK, AND TRUST ME THE WAY I THINK,IT IS NOT GOOD. AND WHAT JABBA HAVE SAID IS 100% TRUE.SO STOP BASHING BUSH. BECAUSE THE REAL TYRANT AND DEVIL IS HUGO CHAVEZ. AND TRUST ME I KNOW MORE THAN U ALL BUSH TRASHERS. ASK ANY VENEZUELAN HERE IN THE U S. U MEET ON THE STREET, MALLS ETC.. ETC.
54 - KB
It is not that some humans are better than others, it is just that some humans are more human than others. As for the pro-dictatorship of this present GWB regime, relax. As KRB, subsidiary of Halliburtin, has had a 42 million dollar contract to build detention centers in this country for the likes of us opposers, built to hold 8000 people each, it won't be too long until you can "unite" under a common flag and those in opposition will essentially be in another country, in a detention center. I oppose what this country's leadership has done to this world, and what it is doing to the rights and freedoms of everyone who lives in this country under the guise of protectionism. I do not fear communism, never have, it is a failed state and could not survive in this country as an economic system in any regards, but I do fear fascism, always have, and it is not that far away. In regards to the detention centers, I am phoning ahead for a room with a view. I know my name is on the list, I opposed this war and the for that I will be punished. How could I support this regime in this country, I have a conscience. Chavez is a showman but showmen often have something to say that in its essence has meaning worth listening to. Read between the lines, he has a point and it is at least amusing, but I am by no means outraged.
55 - John
Luis - Please help me understand the evil propagated by Chavez. You say he's a dictator, but from what I can tell, he was twice elected into office. Was this a fake election, where he was the only candidate? Otherwise, I have to give this statement the same consideration to those who call Bush a dictator.
And it seems that Chavez enjoys a high approval rating (around 70%), based on a survey by a group that is considered aligned with the opposition. Bush could only wish for such numbers! I can find references to free or subsidized health care, subsidized food, an increaese in the minimum wage, and a decrease in unemployment. Is any of this untrue? I checked out a recent CBC documentary and it seems that actual Venezuelans, as least the poor, think highly of him.
From the data I've gathered, I'm trying to identify what he has done wrong, other than pissing off the rich and corporations, and trying to redistribute the nations wealth and land to the poor. Please, Luis, you say if we read the news of Venezuela, we'll see what a jerk Chavez is. Can you provide a link to some of this news? In English, please, since my Spanish is somewhat rusty, though I suppose I could use a translator like worldlingo.
56 - Nancy
Shari #52, I'd a helluva lot rather spend the billions currently wasted on foreign aid on my fellow citizens than on those around the globe who take my money & then spit in my face anyway. Screw them. Let them drown in tsumanis, lie buried by earthquakes, or stifle in mudslides. Let their neighbors help them, or the rich Oil nations - I notice I never see any of THEM racing to the rescue or contributing a nickel to their fellow muslims when there's a crisis somewhere. I don't mind at all helping my fellow Americans; I DO object to being panhandled by every begging ingrate around the world. If these 'poor' nations would stop breeding like uncontrolled rats, they wouldn't be so poor because they'd be better able to direct their resources.
57 - T.R.
Speak for yourself. I'm not outraged. I often think of Bush as the Devil myself. Who cares what Chavez says anyway? Speech is free in this country and we Americans are strong enough to withstand words.
58 - William
I have to agree with those who have stated "Not the entire U.S. was outraged." I love my country, love democracy, think capitalism is okay (if properly checked), have served five years in the military, and work in a public school. Yet President Bush and his cronies are nothing more the power mongering liars who have murdered not only foreigners but our own soldiers for the own devious and nefarious gains. Bush has used military and economic might to threaten and cajole nations to back up his phony war of conquest and Bush and his team of neo-fascists have lied to us and used the death of our fellow citizens to nationalize hatred of other cultures. I know little about Chavez. He may indeed be a pretender or a thug. But from what I have heard from his U.N. speeches, he is a hero.
59 - Dave Nalle
I actually find comments like the one from William above far more of an outrage against America than anything Chavez said. Chavez is a flamboyant and egotistical marxist dictator who hates America. You have to expect outrageous statements from him. But it's way more dismaying to hear Americans like William who have become so mired in propaganda and hate that they begin to echo Chavez' paranoia. It is a failure on the part of our nation that we've allowed people to become so ignorant and ill-informed that they can be subverted into the sort of mindset where they can listen to Chavez or Noam Chomsky and not know enough to realize how foolish and destructive their beliefs are. The beliefs which Chavez, Chomsky and too many on the American left embrace are antithetical to the welfare of humanity and the values which define America. It dismays me to see people in America falling into this folly.
Dave
60 - anthony thomas
The USA has set itself up for the backlash against a president who is barely above a moron in intelligence. But that aside one does not visit ones home and insult the host. In this case as well deserved, as the criticism was it should not have been voiced while within the USA.
61 - Dave Nalle
Technically the floor of the UN is not US territory.
And as for Bush being a near-moron, why is it that no one who has met and spoken with him even those who are politically opposed to him share this belief? It seems only to exist among the ignorant.
Dave
62 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
You're assertion that Bush bashers are ill-informed is the opposite of reality in my experience. I tend to find the people that pay any attention to politics have a much higher tendency to bash bush than those who sit back in their armchairs and think other people will take care of America for them.
We dont need to meet Bush to decide he's a moron. We've watched his speeches. I know people with half a brain that can speak more intelligently than he does. Bush has made America and himself the laughing stock of the rest of europe. In my book, that's more than enough evidence to convict him of being a 1st degree moron.
63 - John
Dave - There are just so many baseless statements in your last post, I don't know where to start, but let me try. You speak of ignorance, but I'm challenged to find some actual facts to back up many of your statements.
Although I'll buy the Marxist (aka socialist) description of Chavez, dictator is a bit strong, don't you think? Dictators don't get elected, twice. Dictatorships don't have a constitution, judicary and legislature.
Chavez paranoid? Against America? I doubt he is against actual Americans, but rather, our foreign policies. As an example, look at how the US has been involved in a military fashion in countries such as Chile, Argentina, Colombia, Paraguay, Honduras and Peru, to name a few. I don't think he is being paranoid at all, since we've set a nice precedent.
Could you be a bit more specific about the "foolish and destructive beliefs" of Chavez? Are you against the Bolivarian Missions? Are you against using a nation's wealth to feed and care for the poor? It appears to me that these missions are exactly the type of things that in fact "contribute to the welfare of humanity."
Please, Dave, enlighten us with some examples and facts, so that we won't be so ignorant and ill-informed.
64 - Brad Schader
This is my biggest problem with Chavez
65 - Maurice
I tend to find the people that pay and attention to politics...blah..blah..blah
People that pay attention to politics read books:
Atlas Shrugged - 4,132,00 copies sold
Conscience of a Conservative - 3,500,00 copies sold
Free to Choose - 1,240,000 copies sold
Conservative books sell very well. Liberal books not so much. One group likes to be well informed....
66 - Mike
OVERRUN THE GOVERNMENT! CHARGE!
67 - JR
Maurice: People that pay attention to politics read books:
Atlas Shrugged - 4,132,00 copies sold
Conscience of a Conservative - 3,500,00 copies sold
Free to Choose - 1,240,000 copies sold
Conservative books sell very well. Liberal books not so much. One group likes to be well informed....
I bought a copy of Atlas Shrugged, does that make me a conservative? Does it make me well informed? (I haven't read it yet.)
68 - Maurice
JR - maybe you should read the cliff notes...
I take your point, though. I read many liberal books in addition to my conervative library. Thus helping to pump up 'their' numbers.
69 - Nancy
Well said, PETI #63. As he said, we've listened to him. In both speech & content, he's vacuous. If he does this deliberately, then he's worse: he's sloppy and has intentionally gone out of his way to misrepresent & humiliate the US by his apparent stupidity & ignorance. Unfortunately for us, I believe the ignorance, sloppiness, and stupidity are genuine, as the accent is not.
70 - John
While my initial goal was to dispell the notion that Chavez is a totally evil guy (and I don't think anyone can argue that using national wealth to help feed, educate and provide medical care for the needy is evil, as evidenced by his high approval rating) I'm not under the illusion that he hasn't done some wrong. So while we wait for Dave to finish his homework, I took a peek at the Human Rights Watch Venezuela section and would agree there is much to be concerned about. And to strive to be "fair and balanced" be sure to check their section on the USA.
71 - John
For some fun reading, you have to check out this page which contains a wealth of Bushisms. You can't help but conclude that, at the very least, the guy is a terrible speaker, and at worst, not all that bright.
72 - Dave Nalle
Although I'll buy the Marxist (aka socialist) description of Chavez, dictator is a bit strong, don't you think? Dictators don't get elected, twice. Dictatorships don't have a constitution, judicary and legislature.
You should read up on the way the elections were rigged, the courts have been subverted and the constitution has been rewritten. If you rewrite the laws to legitimize the rule of the dictator that doesn't make him any less of a dictator. Do you realize that when they held a recall election for Chavez in 2004 over 3 million votes were thrown out by the election commission which is made up entirely of Chavez cronies and has no representation from other political groups?
Chavez paranoid? Against America? I doubt he is against actual Americans, but rather, our foreign policies. As an example, look at how the US has been involved in a military fashion in countries such as Chile, Argentina, Colombia, Paraguay, Honduras and Peru, to name a few. I don't think he is being paranoid at all, since we've set a nice precedent.
As far as I can tell our foreign policy in the region is to encourage stable government so that we can do business to the benefit of our companies and the nations they do business in.
Could you be a bit more specific about the "foolish and destructive beliefs" of Chavez? Are you against the Bolivarian Missions? Are you against using a nation's wealth to feed and care for the poor? It appears to me that these missions are exactly the type of things that in fact "contribute to the welfare of humanity."
No, I'm against putting people on trial for criticizing the government and seizing the land of political opponents and redistributing it.
Please, Dave, enlighten us with some examples and facts, so that we won't be so ignorant and ill-informed.
I've already gone over this subject at great length with lots of links on the other Chavez thread which you can find here. You could start by reading the 1999 Venezuelan constitution and taking a look at the special powers it gives the president and then follow some of my other links.
Dave
73 - John
Thanks for responding to my request, Dave. Whereas your prior posts were heavy on rhetoric and light on detail, your most recent response provides a lot of food for thought.