The Texas legislature is like a chicken with an electric prod up its cloaca trying to run fast enough to pull the plug before it gets shocked.
Dallas Suburb Votes to Ban Illegals from Renting…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Texas Newsbrief: Nativists in Dallas, Gas Pimps in Austin, Toll Roads to Hell - Comments Page 2
Article comments
26 - Clavos
Absolutely true, Dave.
I personally know people living on ancestral land in the San Antonio area who have land grant certificates for their land which are written in Spanish and which were issued by the Mexican government prior to 1836.
27 - Zedd
Clavos
I have told you about my relationship with Hispanics. I grew up with Mexicans. There was not difference in this area we were one. When I first arrived in this country I was scared at school and the first person who befriended me was a Mex-American little girl who I still love and loves me dearly today. I had prayed that God would let her be my friend because she was so pretty and quite :o)
I understand that Mexicans belong in Texas without say. As a young child coming from SA, I was furiously offended by the celebration of the Alamo because in my mind it was the taking of the land from a people, not understanding the dynamics, I equated the Mexicans to be like us in SA.
The topic is illegal Mexicans, for me.
This is not about Brown people! I’m insulted by that. It about intrusion Clavos. Until you experience it from another group YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
I remember years ago when my Moms friends (who happen to be "Anglo") in Florida were complaining about the language thing and the inundation and change of culture. I pronounced them racist. I hadn’t walked a day in their shoes. I would argue that English is not the official language, this is not England and because this is a democracy, majority rules. Ha, ask me to repeat that now.
Certain Blacks will say behind closed doors, "now we know how Whites felt when we entered their neighborhoods in droves and did our own thing".
When I drive through a "changed" neighborhood, I get it. Its like Soweto. Its alive. The smell of food in the air and the music blaring is warm and loving in my mind. BUT for people who don't know anything about that life, its scary, messy, loud, untidy, garish, weird, destructive and chaotic. No one wants to build a $500,000 home and have THAT a couple of blocks going on along with the crime that comes with ALL ghettos.
Farmers Branch is a Suburb. Its one that has been sleepy for a while and is now building like crazy. There are mc mansion communities budding everywhere. Because it was sleepy, its got a large number of houses that will soon be rentals. These rentals will for sure turn into neighborhoods that are invaded by Mexican illegals and the entire landscape WILL change. You know the driving in Mexico (if you’ve been there), no one wants that in their community. The schools WILL explode. They don’t want their property taxes exploding without income coming in because of renters. This has nothing to do with race. It has to do with economics and quality of life.
People who are acclimated into a culture over time and can operate within the system are typically accepted (by most to a degree). But the immense on slot of Mexican immigrants in the past 10yrs is shocking.
I was not racist in my hospital bed Clavos. I was tormented. I couldn’t believe that it was happening. I was up calling the nurse all night for Madre (which I didn’t mind); comforting her by sounding gentle and using my poor Spanish. No racism. I was in hospital for goodness sake and the day time was MAYHAM and they didn’t care!! I recalled the poor hospitals back home with babies crying and eating and loud talking going on and I thought, “this is where they think they are”. They are totally oblivious to their surroundings. They haven’t made the psychological transition. The food deliverer had to shout sternly at the family like a lunatic because she couldn’t get through to me to give me my tray of food. Everyone was on the phone, changing diapers and watching the endless party on TV. Not to mention the man on my side of the room sitting on a chair and starring at me. They had dismantled cousins from chairs and were sitting on the floor, using physical therapy items for patients as stools……….. Oh to relive it all.
NO ONE wants that Clavos. NO ONE. You obviously don’t know what a racist is.
Mexico needs to stop using these people and fix this situation. As I have said before, were I in their situation, I would cross the boarder too. It’s the business owners and the governments that are using these families. Either way it’s not pleasant. And NO ONE wants that next door.
28 - Dr Dreadful
Asians come here as adults and they sweat to speak English, Africans from non English speaking countries come here as adults and speak English with pain. Spanish is similar to English, they are next door and the desire to speak it is just not there.
Not always true. The hospital staff you talked about in your earlier post spoke English as a professional requirement - they wouldn't have gotten their jobs/visas otherwise.
Where I live in central California there is a large community of Hmong from Laos. The elders keep to themselves and usually do not speak any English. They rely on their children who were born and/or educated here when they need to interact with American society at large. The Hmong are an introspective people anyway, made even more so by years of languishing in refugee camps in Thailand, waiting to come to America.
They are here legally, they love America and wish dearly to contribute. But they have a broad comfort zone which it is very daunting for the older Hmong to step out of, especially since their culture and language is so drastically different from our own.
I highly recommend a book called The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down, by Ann Fadiman, which relates the story of the Hmong and the difficulties both their culture and ours face when they collide.
29 - Zedd
Clavos
Sorry about the long responses...
NO you are wrong about the colorful communities. I grew up with Mexicans, the loud signs did not pop up in my neighborhood or any neighborhoods then. Some of the Mexican houses were brightly painted but that was it. They are Americans just like everyone else. They are just as acclimated to American society. Even in exclusively poor Mexican areas, they were not all neoned out. The loud umpa umpa music was not anywhere to be heard. The number of illegals is so immense that no one cares about hiding. They are not living in hiding.
Your bringing up the fact that Mexican-Americans speak Spanish among each other is no biggie. Remember, I am an immigrant I speak my languages with my mom. No biggie.
The family next to me in my hospital bed could not speak English at all. None of them. They were not Mexican Americans. I thought when the adult children came in the morning we could talk and I'd explain to them that their mom was crying and that she can prss the button, etc. They no abla.
San Antonio is a bad example btw. Everyone just about is Mexican. There is nothing major to re-acclimate to.
30 - Nancy
"Madre" sounds exactly like the animal that was sharing my room last year in the hospital. I've had 4 Hispanic roommates in hospital so far in the last year, & every one was a non-English-speaking, demanding, aggravating, whining, babbling idiot with a horde of equally whining, demanding, LOUD, non-English-speaking relatives who spent/spend all their time squatting in the room at all hours (including those forbidden) & ignoring all the rules, despite my repeated demands to the hospital that rules be enforced. I finally managed to get moved OUT to a different room, different roomies. Their level of hygiene was almost non-existant, as well. They seem to take not speaking English as an excuse to do what they damn well please, & make exorbitant demands on the staff, not to mention other patients.
In this area, at least, the illegals have an overweening sense of entitlement, fostered by a series of misguided if not criminally bleeding-heart politicians pimping for votes (illegal or otherwise, they don't care), and yes indeed, they do DEMAND access to services & 'rights' as if they were citizens; nor do they try to keep a 'low profile' - would that they did. As it is, they are the #1 source of crimes of all sorts, from drug dealing & machete attacks to rapes & murder, to shoplifting & public rowdiness. Our police budget & hospital emergency room budgets have skyrocketed because of them. The schools are stuffed with the hordes of their brats, while school budgets are diverted from teaching rightful students (i.e. citizens & legal immigrants' kids) in order to accomodate them.
Personally I favor a $20 bounty on each illegal scalp that gets turned in, no questions asked.
31 - Zedd
DR
I am not saying that it is inherent in the Mexican gene to be invasive and not accommodating the system.
I am saying the the NUMBER of people all at once, in a short time span who don't speak the language and aren't acclimated yet fully engage in society, is daunting if not disturbing to other people, regardless of country of origin.
Also you speak of the elders. I'm assuming you are referring to the elderly. My concern is with 20 somethings. There are Africans who were raised in French speaking countries, who come here and learn the language out of survival.
32 - Nancy
It certainly isn't Mexican or Hispanic or anything else, but it IS cultural. Most of these people come from the absolute bottom rung of the socioeconomic ladder, or they'd be able to make it back home. They're the same as the trash occupying the bottom of the Anglo-American socioeconomic ladder, who are equally loud, obnoxious, selfish, ignorant, stupid - & prolific. One of my orthopedic surgeons' wives (also a nurse in the same hospital) is a middle-class Peruvian, & she says these people don't/can't even speak standard Spanish, let alone read or write it, so even SHE can't talk to them! It's some kind of patois. Nor does she behave as they do. They're from the slums, and they act like it.
33 - Nancy
BTW, Dave, I DO like your new photo, but I think you'd look better in your cowboy hat. It's more you, somehow.
34 - Zedd
Nancy
You know the HELL. I couldn't believe it was happening. I thought this cant be. The Spanish television just about killed me. I thought, this is a crime! Its been a week and I am still in shock!!!
When her family unhooked my phone and plugged my jack to hers while I was right there, I was just stunned. I think she had static on her line. My poor mom called 7 times. It didn't even dawn to them that the caller is English speaking perhaps the call is for "senora" on the next bed.
I could tell by the food deliverer's demeanor that she was used to the mayhem and knew what to do. She did not crack one smile. She was beaten down.
I will not set foot in certain stores for the same reason. The mayhem is toooooooo much. There is a Wal Mart where it doesn't matter what time of the night, its like a party. No one gets out of your way in the isles and the ninos are opening boxes with no parental supervision ANY WHERE around. You look around and think that you must e in a dream of sorts.
None of this makes sense. Those politicians are going to get theirs. Illegals don't vote.
35 - Clavos
Zedd, nancy,
You two may not think you're being racists, but you are.
Zedd, if I were to replace "Mexican(s)" with "Black" and "Spanish" with "Ebonics" everywhere those words appear in your comments, the comments would sound like they'd been written by David Duke himself.
Nancy, from all of your posts I've read over the last several months,I've long since known you have a generalized xenophobia about any immigrants, so I'm not surprised.
But I did expect better from Zedd.
Oh well.
As we say in Mexico, ni modo.
36 - Nancy
They do around here; rumor has it the governor would like to give orders to look the other way & not 'insult' non-english-speaking-would-be-voters by asking for IDs or other proof of citizenship/registration.
I certainly hope you did raise some hell of your own, Zedd, instead of just lying there taking it? I left that room, but only after seeing to it that the little swine was in tears & thoroughly understood in any language she & hers were trash. They were rather more subdued after that.
37 - Nancy
No - I'm a classist, altho I plead guilty to a degree of xenophobia for which I do not apologize. I don't care what color anyone is, as long as they behave in a manner acceptable to most people in a standard situation. Persons who behave like Zedd's & my erstwhile hospital roomies, or like the people currently upstairs from me (who are lily-white) are equally noxious to me, as are the super-rich such as the Paris Hiltons & Bush Twins of the world. Had Zedd been the one unplugging this woman's phone, would you have accused her (the Hispanic) of being racist?
38 - Nancy
Question, Clavos: at what point does disapproval of the behavior of others become 'racist'? Are you claiming that all bad behavior by others is to be considered acceptable because they don't know any better, or that is their "culture", even if the culture is a product of ignorance & filth? I take issue with that, if that is what you contend. The behavior of these women - & their families - was rude, crude, & abusive, and you know it. To say it is racist for others to object actually is sort of racist yourself, because you're saying they're no better than that, so should be accepted as being naturally dirty, nasty, loud, obnoxious, etc. Like having low expectations for black schoolkids, if you can see what I'm driving at.
39 - Clavos
Nancy asks,
Question, Clavos: at what point does disapproval of the behavior of others become 'racist'?
That's an easy one, Nancy:
At the point where you attribute the behavior of individuals to an entire class or race of people, as both of you did upthread in a number of posts; implicitly and explicitly.
If attributed to a class, it's classism, which you admitted to upthread.
If attributed to a race, it's racism.
I will stipulate that both of you primarily were practicing classism, but because the class you were stereotyping is of just one race, Latino, some of your comments were racist as well as classist, IMO.
Both are morally repugnant and unamerican, IMO.
40 - Zedd
Clavos
I realise how I could sound racist. But I am not talking about an innate inferiority. I am not talking about Mexicans by no means. I am talking about this phenomenon which you have no experience with, which is MASSIVE illegal immigration in a short period of time by ONE main group.
It wouldn't matter if these individuals were from Bulgaria, I would still be stunned.
But Clav, think about experiencing the inconvenience. You didn't comment on the horror of my hospital stay. You said nothing about the economic burden, the drop out rates, the crime rates. You cant just ignore these things from people who have chosen (for valid reasons for them) to intrude on a nation.
You see our culture is to pursue the American dream. A nice home in a quite neighborhood, etc, etc. When a large, illegal population ascends upon you derailing everything that you hope for in a society, its scary and frustrating.
The people in Farmers Branch want their pursuit of happiness. They don't want the Mexican slum dream.
You see Clav, I work in the inner city. A majority Black community. One of the things that is glaring is that the inhabitants of this particular community are clueless about what the rest of society is all about. Their values are different. I work with preteens to take them places so that they can see how people act and what people do in various settings. I've been volunteering there since I was a teen. I still don't shut my mouth about the things in that community that make it a dump. That is not racist. Its just an observation. I don't say Blacks are lazy and dirty and don't possess the natural motivation to pull themselves up. I say the people in this community are don't take care of their community "there is no way that I would ever want to live here or have them move into my community". That has nothing to do with race, its a fair observation and choice of lifestyle for myself. Now think, these people in this community are OUR criminally saturated, loud, chaotic people. Why would anyone want even these people to move a block away. Let alone illegal immigrants with the language and total misunderstanding of culture.
The same Wal Mart that I spoke of earlier turned me off of the the chain when a few years back, the people of this urban community were all over. There was a large number of massively over weight, loud Black women with these hair styles, loud rap in the parking lot and a number of things that made me feel unwelcome.... I thought "YIKES, oh my goodness! This place is not for me". A few years later when the illegal community entered, even the people who I thought were too much were complaining about the mayhem. Its just toooooo much Clav.
Its tough enough to tolerate one of your children if they are strung out and chaotic. You certainly wouldn't take in some stranger's kid to do that to your life and more.
That is the point. Forget the race thing. It is a distraction from the what we all need to focus on. We need to get on Mexico, business owners here and our politicians that are using these people. This cant go on forever. They want to be home too. They just want the promise of a better tomorrow for their children. That is why they are here.
In order to give my children the right perspective on this immigration thing, I got a book for my teen about two siblings who HAD to buy their way to the US. It was touching. They would cry for the kids when they shared the chapters with me, I cried with them and it gave them a sensitivity to the individuals that cross the boarder. It also gave them a glimpse of the political and economic structure around the issue.
One of the biggest mistakes that AAs made from the start was not publicly acknowledging problems that were obvious about the AA community. While all AAs will tell you what is wrong with AA ghettos and will be more condemning than most Whites, we don't say it in public. We become defensive. That was/is a HUGE mistake. The problems are clear for EVERYONE with half a brain to see. If you ignore them YOU look like an idiot and people dismiss you. Don't make the same mistake. Love your peeps but don't enable and end up totally discredited and getting lumped into the bag with everyone, good, bad or ugly.
By the way Mexican is not a race. You know that.
41 - Clavos
Zedd,
I am talking about this phenomenon which you have no experience with, which is MASSIVE illegal immigration in a short period of time by ONE main group.
I have more experience than you. For several years now, Miami has had a higher rate of immigration than any other city in the USA. Census Bureau's statement, not mine.
Dallas and its suburbs are not majority immigrant. Miami is.
The people in Farmers Branch want their pursuit of happiness. They don't want the Mexican slum dream.
Too bad. EVERY immigrant group that has come to this country in the last 150 years has started out living in slums, because that's all that's available to them until they establish themselves. Deal with it.
A few years later when the illegal community entered, even the people who I thought were too much were complaining about the mayhem. Its just toooooo much Clav.
The very same things have been said about Blacks, Slavs, Irish, Germans and EVERY IMMIGRANT group. Get over it.
By the way Mexican is not a race. You know that.
No but "brown" (Latino, or as the government calls it, Hispanic), is. And the "illegals" (as well as the "legals", which most are, BTW) you're seeing in Texas and all over the country are of ALL LatAm nationalities, not just Mexican.
The most glaring evidence that it's racism is that everyone who sees a group of "loud, messy, badly behaved" (your words, not mine) brown-skinned Latinos automatically assumes they're "illegals", which the vast majority are NOT.
Again, you sound JUST like the whites I know who are prejudiced against blacks...
I expected better of you.
42 - Zedd
Clavos
At the point where you attribute the behavior of individuals to an entire class or race of people, as both of you did upthread in a number of posts; implicitly and explicitly
Both Nancy and I are used to conversing about groups of people. She is an Anthropologist, you know my background.
Attributing certain behaviors or characteristics to a group is not RACIST. No one said that the mayhem is innate.
Nancy has a no nonsense approach. She calls our politicians maggots. That is her way. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't mince words.
43 - Zedd
Clavos #41
We are talking about ILLEGAL ALEINS.
None of your contentions apply.
I am not talking about Mexicans. Stop the drama.
I am not talking about a RACE.
If millions of Nigerians descended upon your city and required Ibo to be on all documentation. If 1/3 of the TV stations were in Ibo. If they set up markets at the beach like back home, played High Life music constantly and turned significant parts of Miami into Lagos, THEN you would know what I am talking about.
44 - Jerry
Zedd -
You are no racist, brush off the accusation. You have bent over backwards to explain your frustrations and the reasons for them. You're right, Nancy pulls no punches. Maybe she could have a little more compassion but she does get her points across in such a way that many, many of us can relate to.
45 - Zedd
Clav
You don't know what you are talking about.
The most glaring evidence that it's racism is that everyone who sees a group of "loud, messy, badly behaved" (your words, not mine) brown-skinned Latinos automatically assumes they're "illegals", which the vast majority are NOT.
I don't. AGAIN I grew up with Mexican Americans.
When I see loud, messy, badly behaved Black skinned people, I don't think that they represent ALL Black people
When I see loud, messy, badly behaved White people (I live in Texas in what used to be a small town now subburb, they exist plentifully on the outskirts), I don't think that all Whites are like that.
I've got enough common sense to attribute behavior to the group that it belongs to.
Aprehended Aliens from Latin American countries
Country / Total Alien Apprehensions / Total Criminal Apprehensions
Cuba/ 23893/3969
Dominican Republic/ 16372/ 8926
El Salvador/ 58013/ 9573
Guatemala/ 47923/ 6417
Honduras/ 65313/ 8232
Mexico/ 480563/ 257718
Nicaragua/ 5227/ 1281
There is a reason for focusing on this particular population.
46 - Dr Dreadful
Not sure where you got those figures from, Zedd, but it looks as if, proportionately, we have a bigger problem with Dominican Republic nationals (54.5% criminal vs. alien apprehensions) as with Mexicans (53.6%).
47 - Zedd
Dr
Apologies. That data comes from the Department of Homeland Security
The problem is not with the percent for the population, the problem is with the total number of occurrences. 8,926 vs 257,718 is significant.
Farmer's Branch would and should consider that.
Mexicans are the largest number of illegals in Texas. The next population is El Salvadorian, then from Honduras then Guatemala. These groups are barely represented. People from the Dominican Republic are not an issue in Texas.
Side note: According to census data, the next largest group to migrate to Texas are Vietnamese. Again, not running into the cultural intrusion from this group.
48 - Dave Nalle
Just for the record since everyone else 'grew up with mexican americans', I didn't even SEE a Hispanic that I'm aware of until I was 23 and moved to Texas.
Dave
49 - Dr Dreadful
Neither did I, having been raised in London's outer suburbs.
This is such a contentious issue. The only one I can think of that's aroused more heated feeling on Blogcritics is abortion. Where you stand doesn't seem to depend much on what your general political outlook is, more on your personal experience. President Bush, for instance, supports a guest worker program (just about the only issue I agree with him on) in the face of strong opposition from most of his party and some of the other.
One of the most vocal critics I know of illegal immigration is a Mexican-American woman I work with. I disagree with her. I'm a legal immigrant, and it's constantly assumed by those who are irked by illegals that because I did things 'the right way', I should resent those who take a different approach. But I'm well aware that the whole process was made a lot easier for me, a white European, than for the brown-skinned people who stood in line and waited patiently in IRS waiting rooms with me.
I first came in on a fiancé visa. The clock started ticking the moment I landed: I had to marry within 90 days, after which I could apply to adjust my status to that of permanent resident - a process which could take up to three years. My online research had led me to believe that I would be able to work while I was waiting to get married and apply for residency. Shortly after I arrived, I presented myself at the local IRS office (which, thankfully, was in town, or goodness knows how much traveling I would have had to do). My application for adjustment of status was accepted but I was told that I could not work. I stood my ground and insisted that the IRS website did indeed indicate that the fiancé visa came with authorization to work. After a brief consultation with her supervisor, the immigration officer agreed to grant me the work permit.
I strongly doubt that if my skin had been of a darker shade and my passport had been green instead of maroon, it would have been as easy to persuade the IRS to let me work.
Here I should insert a caveat that this was right before 9/11. After that, things got a lot more rigid. I was lucky, but my race certainly had a lot to do with my luck.
50 - Clavos
Attributing certain behaviors or characteristics to a group is not RACIST.
It is when you observe a given set of behaviors or characteristics in a limited sample of people and extrapolate those observations to cover the entire group or class.
That is, in fact, the very essence of racism.
If I were to observe a group of young Black gangbangers in South Central LA beating up on the homeless and stealing little old ladies' purses, and if I were then to come to BC and post a comment proclaiming that all blacks are thugs, I would be guilty of racism.
See the parallel?
51 - Zedd
Clavos
No one said all illegal aliens are anything. You keep taking that route. You know the stats lets stop playing games.
Look at the studies which compare illegals to legal Mexicans. Its all there.
The cultural stuff is not because they are bad, its just that any people of one culture can not descend upon another culture in the numbers that your peeps have and not have a negative reaction.
In SA the Zims are disliked for the same reasons.
Everywhere on the planet, people don't like their world to be disturbed or taken over by strangers, especially when it is not being improved in a manner that they judge improvement.
52 - Zedd
Dr.
What got you your papers was your marriage to a citizen, not your skin.
What got you your permit was your knowledge of the rules, not your skin.
I became a citizen as a child. My first hubby was not and got his perm residency through me. It went like you said. He was not White.
53 - Dr Dreadful
Maybe, Zedd. I'm not saying I wouldn't have gotten my work permit at all had I not been white. I'm just suspecting that I wouldn't have gotten it as fast.
54 - Zedd
Dr
You could be right. Possibly your country of origin played a role. I don't know but there could be ways of the gov side stepping the race thing by designating prefered countries of origin.
55 - Nancy
For the record, Clavvie, the first illegal I ever met who got me pissed off by her illegality (& I've written about her before on BC) was a white, middle class Canadian woman. I was - & am - just as steamed about her as I am about illegal blacks-browns-asians-or plaids. She's ILLEGAL. THAT & that alone is the point. As for Zedd's & my unfortunate hospital roomies, had they been (as Zedd points out) white & speaking perfect English, they STILL would have been jerks & unwelcome, on the basis of their grossly asocial & rude behavior & flouting of all rules. Jerks are jerks, it doesn't matter the point of origin, race, or religion. And yes, you can indeed ascribe negative aspects of behavior to entire groups of people. If I say 'redneck', almost everyone in the US will know exactly what I mean: loud, boorish, in-your-face, vulgar people who tend to swill beer & deliberately talk like ignoramuses even when they know better. Prime example: Dubya Bush - altho he's a faux redneck, having been born/brought up in CT, not TX. It is indeed painting an entire group of a specific race (white) with a tarred brush, but it's valid because it's true. In the same way, can you honestly sit there & try to tell me with a straight face that MS-13 members are NOT almost exclusively of the Salvadoran criminal/lower class elements? No, I can't say that all Salvadorans are members of MS-13; but I CAN certainly say that MS-13 is Salvadoran, and it would not be racist to say so. Facts are facts, regardless of the PC-inclined. Zedd is right: most of the people I see in Walmart are lower-class/working class, obese women & their kids. You just don't see Paris Hilton types in there often if at all. It just doesn't happen. So is it racist to point out that Wallie's is a lower-class venue for the obese?
There's nothing racist about calling the shots as you see them, even if they DO seem to be politically incorrect. The fact that the vast preponderance of illegals stem from hispanic venues, & comprise the lowest possible socioeconomic class of their countries does not render it racist that I consider them to be "undesirable" - because if they came from Oz or Britain or France, they'd be JUST as undesirable, be they white, yellow, or any other color of the rainbow.
You want to consider it racist that a lot of us don't want to welcome scofflaws of hispanic or any other alien origin with open arms? Fine. Go ahead. But that doesn't make it so, just because YOU say so. No one died & left you as God, or arbiter of what is racist & what is not. I like you, Clavvie, even if you do traffic with the very rich - but sometimes you start to take on some of Dave's self-righteousness & know-it-all attitude. Oh well.
BTW - how are the wildfires down there? Any in your neck of the woods, so to speak, or are you further south?
56 - Clavos
Nice diatribe, Nancy, but misses my point completely:
It is wrong to assume that ALL Latinos are:
1. Loud
2. Can't control their children.
3. Inconsiderate.
Etc., etc.,
Just because you see SOME of them exhibiting behavioral characteristics of which you don't approve.
And worse, it's WRONG to assume that just because you observe a particular Latino or group of them behaving like that, that they are illegals.
It's equally wrong to assume that Spanish-speaking people in this country are illegal, simply because you hear them speaking Spanish. The fact is that only about half the Mexican residents currently in the USA are illegal, and the proportion of other nationalities that are illegal is significantly lower than half. They ALL speak Spanish among themselves, just as the first (immigrant) generation of other groups (Italians, Germans, Swedes, etc.) did before them. The difference is that the Latino immigration is a relatively recent phenomenon (except for the Texas Tex-Mex population), and most haven't even had a second generation of any size yet.
One exception is the Cubans here in Miami, who have been here long enough (some, 40+ years) to have children and even grandchildren who are Americans. Those who came from Cuba speak Spanish all the time; their children do not.
57 - Nancy
I know that, & I don't assume all Latinos or people speaking languages other than English are illegals, for pete's sake. Nor do I assume those speaking good English are all legal. I DO assume when I meet such people as those Zedd & I have encountered, that they are from the bottom of the socioeconomic food chain, since they obviously don't know any better than to behave like Yahoos (the Gulliver variety). In MOST cases, however, such people ALSO preponderantly tend to be illegal, since otherwise they wouldn't be in the desperate situation of having to leave home for someplace alien. And again, some of the nursing staff were Latino, but they couldn't communicate well with these characters, either; they were entirely too low on the educational/intellectual scale to even speak proper or correct, intelligible Spanish, Spanglish, or anything else the staff could come up with. They were obviously not used to decent facilities or regular hygenic practices. All this points to people of the poorest class, who smuggled in here illegally. It's unlikely they arrived first class off a plane, wouldn't you agree?
It's not so much racism, as observation & deduction, a la Sherlock Holmes. Statistics aren't racist. They just are.
58 - Zedd
Clavos,
Lets do this. What problems do you see with this massive influx of illegal aliens into this country?
59 - Zedd
Clavos
Reading your response to Nancy, I am just shocked. I know how it is to see things about your people but don't want to admit it to everyone else. I live it everyday. I think everyone does to varying degrees.
However I am starting to wonder..........
I used to think why doesn't Spanish radio do service announcements about THE FAST LANE and the slow lane on the highway. This was a huge phenonminon.
or
The NINOS at the store. Its glaring.
or
Moving out of the way in the isle instead of having 5 relatives there shopping together clumped and holding up a line of grocery carts, looking at you like you are insane when you say "excuse me" clearly signifying that you need to pass.
What I am reading is that you don't see these things. Perhaps you too cluelessly drive 25 Miles an hour on the fast lane with a billion cars behind you as you proceed without a care in the world enjoying life, oblivious to the daggers of looks of those finally passing you.
Who knows??
Like I said Clav, if you pretend not to see these things, it will only discredit YOU. Like it or not they exist. Certainly the statistical stuff is there (crime; affects on taxes because of schools,and hospitals; drop out rates...). These are real. Why would any country welcome these from ILLEGAL aliens? Especially if the group is SO LARGE and is going to change the country in a tremendous way?
60 - Clavos
Zedd, Nancy:
OK. I haven't the patience to go through this again, so let's just agree to disagree; I'm not going to convince you and vice versa, so let's just move on.
61 - Zedd
Clavos
I will commit to be more sensative.
62 - STM
Zedd wrote: "Perhaps you too cluelessly drive 25 Miles an hour on the fast lane with a billion cars behind you as you proceed without a care in the world".
Ah, the old "I'm the only car on the freeway trick". Are we talking about Latinos in the US here, or the recent huge influx of mainland Chinese immigrants to Australia?
The most dangerous stretch of road in Australia: The 500m of Dixon St (and the three blocks surrounding it), in downtown Sydney's Chinatown - scene of all my recent car bingles. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to the US. Many new immigrants to other countries have problems adapting to the new cultural morays - whoops, make that mores (sorry Zedd :). It's just that what passes as normal elsewhere is an issue somewhere else.
By the second generation, they're gone, all those annoying issues. And that's all they are, really: annoying. We should be worrying about more important stuff, like how to be more welcoming and inclusive so we don't issues of race, class, religion and culture constantly dividing us all.
63 - Clavos
We should be worrying about more important stuff, like how to be more welcoming and inclusive so we don't issues of race, class, religion and culture constantly dividing us all.
Quoted for Truth!
64 - Zedd
STM
The issue has to do with the fact that we are talking about illegal immigration and the enormous numbers all at once. Multipy your "annoyance" 10 fold including crime, increased taxes, drop out rates (which gaurantee generations of more crime and economic drain).
You are right about people trying to understand a culture and the patterns of acclimating. This particular situation is different. We are talking about 4 million people and their children and grand children (teen pregnancy), perhaps 10 million people in a very short time.
Those annoyances also affect quality of life for the enhabitants of the culture. If a once quite pic nic at the lake is now a loud over crouded maze, body upon body, music umpa-ing everywhere, the pursuit of happiness is affected. Also you can bet that some of those habits will become infused into the culture and normalized. The annoyances will be permanant.
Change and evolution happens. At some point we will have another Ice Age and then the earth will warm... However we don't want to push the distructive affects on our way of life into happening faster than they need to. This massive influx is too much too fast.