Christian support of illegal immigrants is dangerous to both the security, and economic stability of the United States.
There is a huge difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. LEGAL immigrants pay taxes, learn our language, and contribute to the United States as a whole. I support legal immigration, and this article is not intended to speak against legal immigrants or legal immigration.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments126 - Christopher Rose
Archie, once again your life in fantasy land leads you to make a mistake.
Nothing you are writing here is worth taking seriously because it's a load of prejudice and hate and not even a coherent set of ideas never mind a rational political or social philosophy.
On that basis, your own pathetic comments aren't really worth taking seriously so I mocked you falloing victim to your own pretention.
How comedic!
127 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
My my, the two of you, Bing and Chris...
Look, America is a great place to live. If you are not Jewish, it is an even greater place to live because you don't feel like the sugar in someone elses coffee...
Just make sure you have your health insurance and stay out of the way of Somali thugs...
I don't know about France - but the French Chief Rabbi says that Jews there should not display outward signs of Jewishness. So, that means it's not a particlularly safe place for Jews. As for the rest of you, so long as you don't look Jewish...
As to the topic itself, I fail to see how in a society that pretends to be not dominated by one religion (i.e. America), how whether one supports or does not support illegal immigration can be a relevant issue to Christianity.
128 - Arch Conservative
I guess someone like you would consider factual data from international sources concerning global emigration and immigration trends, taxation, and crime fantasy Chris.
You're the one living in a world of prejudice and your own blinding pre-conceived notions Chris. Your obvious derision and scorn for anything that threatens these notions, no matter how firmly rooted in reality, is quite pitiful.
By the way you spelled falling wrong in your last post. I only point it out because you have done it to me with such glee....as if typos actually mean something other than the poster made a mistake in hitting the wrong key.
129 - Christopher Rose
Ooh, look at the nasty man trying to pretend to be the voice of reason. I think I almost preferred the blatant hatred and sneering.
For the record, you didn't present any facts at all, just some statistics snatched out of context accompanied by a whole load of bile and bullshit.
I didn't point out your typo with glee, more irony laced with pity really - but you carry right on sucking up your self-righteous certainty and making up fantasy criticism that has ZERO relationship with reality.
Ruvy, I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick; I'm not criticising the USA just the delusional way that Archie is picturing both it and Europe.
130 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Chris, you're talking to an ex-pat. I understand all to well what you are saying - and not saying...
131 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, as I'm not "not saying" anything, I don't quite know what you mean. Just for the record, I'm quite a literal guy (I think it's the autism!) and if I didn't say it, I wasn't thinking it, most of the time!
132 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Chris, what you didn't say was that many Americans are provincial fools with no real conception of the world. Then again, some very unprovincial Americans write for Blog Critics. In fact this site is blessed with some pretty sophisticated belly scratchers...
133 - Michael J. West
a society that pretends to be not dominated by one religion (i.e. America)
I don't pretend that we're not deminated by one religion. It's impossible to miss that domination.
The only ones I know who do make that pretense are the Christian right, so they can further pretend that they are an exploited and persecuted minority.
134 - Arch Conservative
Well there is a double standard whe it comes to which religions you can bahs in this nation.
The new york times will publish pictures of piss jesus and elephant dung mary but not the danish cartoons making light of islam.
It's not ok for children to say chrisitan prayers or give thanks at lunch but it is ok for the public school system to teach about islam and make kids recite muslim prayers?
The ACLU sues every time a student expressing their own thoughts at a high school graduation even comes close to mentioning Christianity.
The new york city council says it's ok to display menorahs but not kreshes during December.......
Hypocrisy abounds in our society with the way Christianity is treated. The rabid secularist crowd that routinely misinteprets and misapplies the first amendment slectively attacks Christinaity while ignoring displays of other faiths.
If by dominated you mean that Chrisitanity is the most practiced and influential religion well then that may be more acccurate but that is only because we were founded by predominately Christians and the majority of Americans today practice it.
If you don't like that...........
Well that's just too fucking bad......
I hear it so often said by secularist atheists.......... keep your god off of me...
Well I say keep your secualr athesit bullshit off of me!
135 - Michael J. West
The new york times will publish pictures of piss jesus and elephant dung mary but not the danish cartoons making light of islam.
Yeah. Perhaps that's not so much bias against Christians as bias against people rioting in the streets and burning down embassies.
It's not ok for children to say chrisitan prayers or give thanks at lunch but it is ok for the public school system to teach about islam and make kids recite muslim prayers?
Every part of this statement is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing that says "it's not ok for children to say Christian prayers or give thanks at lunch"...as long as they say it to themselves and don't force it on anyone else.
Islam is taught as current events and world civilization, which it is, and not as advocation of religion. Can you name a single example of a school making kids recite Muslim prayers?
The ACLU sues every time a student expressing their own thoughts at a high school graduation even comes close to mentioning Christianity.
The closest you come to having a point, although you exaggerate to a serious degree. The ACLU occasionally goes too far in this regard and saying any time they "even come close" is just silly. Unless you can provide several (READ: more than one) specific example.
The new york city council says it's ok to display menorahs but not kreshes during December.......
First: What the Hell is a kresh?
Second: The New York City Council was only, and that means ONLY talking about public schools.
Third: The New York City Council DID say that it was okay to display menorahs.
Hypocrisy abounds in our society with the way Christianity is treated. The rabid secularist crowd that routinely misinteprets and misapplies the first amendment slectively attacks Christinaity while ignoring displays of other faiths.
Not true. Menorahs and Christmas Trees are both considered secular symbols. The "rabid secularist" crowd generally only attacks Christianity when someone wants to use public money to pay for those displays and put them on public property.
If by dominated you mean that Chrisitanity is the most practiced and influential religion well then that may be more acccurate
That is EXACTLY what is being said.
but that is only because we were founded by predominately Christians
Half true, in that just about half of the people at the Constitutional Convention were Christians. Interestingly, though, no Christian was elected President until Andrew Jackson in 1828, more than forty years after the Constitution was written.
and the majority of Americans today practice it.
Which makes it hard for American Christians to claim that their religion is in any danger.
136 - Michael J. West
Incidentally,
here
is the court decision for what I assume Bing is talking about--although as usual he gets the details wrong--in terms of "kids being required to recite Muslim prayers." It makes a lot of sense, if you actually read it all the way through.
137 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Mike, I'm not going to argue the issue here, but there is one point I'd like to make. You write, "Menorahs and Christmas Trees are both considered secular symbols."
What you mean to say is that the Hanukkiah is a secular symbol. The Menorá is the seven branched lamp that was in the Tabernacle that had to be kept lit at all times, and is not only a religious symbol, it is the original religious symbol of Judaism. The Hanukkiah, by contrast, is the nine branched lamp used to light the Hanukkah candles.
I think Bing means a creche, a depiction of a cradle, in comment #134.
138 - Michael J. West
My apologies, Ruvy. Are a Menorah and a Hanukkiah as easily confused as I suspect? Or do they have very distinctive forms (aside from the number of branches)?
139 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
They are as easily confused as you suspect - and don't feel bad. Lots of secular Jews don't know the difference between the two either. I know it took me a long enough time to learn!
140 - Michael J. West
It should be pointed out that a quick Google search reveals how often Menorah and Hanukkiah are confused, making it a little difficult to discern which the New York City Council has condoned (and probably a little tough for the City Council to be certain).
141 - Michael J. West
Another point: The New York City Council ALSO said that it was okay to display Christmas Trees in the public schools. If the Hanukkah symbol is indeed the Hanukkiah and not the Menorah, it's pretty clear that they are only giving the greenlight to SECULAR symbols.
142 - MAOZ
Well, strictly speaking, the word "menorah" in Hebrew doesn't necessarily have to refer to the one in the Mishkan ["Tabernacle"] or the Miqdash [Temple]. "Menorah" means "lamp". So a Hanukiah is simply a specific type of Menorah. The well-outfitted spelunker will also have a menorah: specifically a "menorat metzach" ["forehead lamp", i.e. a headlamp].
143 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
MAOZ, you're only going to confuse these poor people. Yes, you are right, menorá means lamp. But its first mention is in the Torah with a careful description of how it is to be of one piece of gold, with three branches coming out from the right and three coming out from the left, etc.
A Hanukkiá is a specific type of menorá, but one that is more secular in nature than the one described in the Torah. A menorát métzaH is modern Hebrew and a modern invention for spelunkers in our country who can afford them...
144 - edson
don't mix this with religion please.
you don't have an idea of what christianity is.
145 - Jinger
Actually I do, and I also know what the Bible says. You didn't read the thread or you would know that this became an issue when George Bush decided to let these people stay. He's supposed to be a Christian.
Also, with both the Catholic and Presbyterian Churches intervening on behalf of immigrants, religion has already become involved.
If I were any other religion but Christian, I would be allowed to have an opinion on this issue. This is my opinion. Think what you like. You're entitled.
Finally, dispute what I have said. Do these people have a right to be here? No.
What makes you an expert on what being a Christian is? Christ certainly wouldn't have condoned breaking the law to get what you want.
Regards,
Jinger Jarrett
146 - Christopher Rose
What's that story about Jesus attacking money lenders in a temple? Wouldn't that have been lawbreaking?
147 - zingzing
no, it's a temper tantrum.
so... christianity became part of this issue when bush (supposedly a christian) let illegal immigrants stay...
...
what? where does one follow from the other?
catholics and presbyterians, coming to the aid of immigrants? that's a bad thing? aren't christians SUPPOSED to help the less fortunate? isn't that part of being a christian?
you know, if christians weren't so goddamned confused all the time, no one would doubt their judgement. "If I were any other religion but Christian, I would be allowed to have an opinion on this issue." ha. oh my. the down-trodden christian. whimper. whine. if you didn't couch your "opinion" in some idiotic argument about religion, then your religion would not matter one fucking bit.
you are totally backwards, not only in your "opinion," which is incredibly simplistic in a very complex issue, but also in your "christianity," which is, again, a perversion and simplification of what it means to be a christian... you ignore the parts you don't like... like being humane, i suppose.
148 - arthur
nonsense
149 - John
Every time that I hear people say that illegal immigration is not a christian thing all I can say is put yourself in their position. The people who come here are not the ones who are wealthy and rich they are the ones who need the most help and come here just to earn a few bucks to be able to help themselves and their family back in Mexico or where ever they are from. Who did Jesus hang out with? The tax collectors, prostitutes, and people with leprosy who were rejected by society. Do you really think Jesus would take a poor illegal immigrant and just ship him back because what he did was not right. NO!!! He would have had compation on them and help them, not throw them back!!!!!
150 - Jamie
I am married to an illegal from south of the border, and he works in a kitchen, pays taxes, that he does not have the right to claim, free money for uncle Sam, and he goes to church w/ me and our children (christian church) every sunday, our children attend school at our church, and he is a great person, he is learning english. He also has 4 brothers, that live very similar lives. So to say that "they" do not pay taxes is false. There are a handful, I'm sure, who are bad aples so to speak, but for the most part thay are kind, christian, hard working people. I know more "americans" who are lazy, gossiping, medling people than i do "mexicans". Ya know, you can't judge an entire group of people. All I read in this article was hyprocisy. Yeah lady, look at yourself, and take care of YOUR own. I'm sure that illegal immigration has very little impact on you personaly. God loves ALL his children.
151 - Samantha
Just because a person lives in the united states and is not a citizen does not mean they are greedy or thieves. In fact the bible says:
"Execute true justice, show mercy and compassion everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor, let none of you plan evil in his heart against his brother." Zechariah 7:9-10
Many illegal immigrants do pay taxes, and came here like everyone else in the search of a better life. My family came during the potato blight from Ireland and we were all oppressed too. Maybe not the rights of a U.S. citizen, but a human living in our country, yes deserves rights.
152 - Samantha
people born in the united states are u.s. citizens only if one of their parents is a u.s. citizen. whoever wrote this might want to check their facts. And if a u.s. citizen has a child, not matter if the other parent is a citizen or not, that child should be a u.s. citizen, regardless.
153 - Dr Dreadful
people born in the united states are u.s. citizens only if one of their parents is a u.s. citizen.
Wrong. See the 14th Amendment, the 1866 Civil Rights Act, and U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, among others.
154 - Samantha
actually i was referring to the CCA or Child Citezenship Act that came into effect in the year of 2000, not 1866.
155 - Dr Dreadful
No, unless you were quoting from the article or someone else's comment - which it didn't appear you were - that's not what you were talking about. You claimed that you had to have an American parent to be an American citizen.
The CCA is an attempt to remedy the curious constitutional loophole whereby children born overseas, even if both their parents are American citizens, don't have an automatic right to citizenship themselves.
People born in the United States are (with a very few exceptions) automatically citizens, regardless of their parents' nationality or status.
156 - Clavos
"The CCA is an attempt to remedy the curious constitutional loophole whereby children born overseas, even if both their parents are American citizens, don't have an automatic right to citizenship themselves."
When was that in effect, Doc?
As you know, my siblings and I were all born in Mexico (the youngest of us is 50), and I don't recall any of us having to do anything special to get our US passports. Do you know when it became non-automatic?
157 - DinTN
Jamie-
May I ask whos Social Security number is your illegal invader husband is using in order to work in that kitchen?
If he is illegal he is NOT able to work here legally and is no doubt destroying some honest American worker's credit and employment history. More possible using some choilds SS number that won't know about the illegal activity on his/her record until applying for a job or credit!
You condone that illegal action of your illegal husband's and say you attend church?
Hipocritical and un-American!
158 - Chucksta
Regardless of the religion issue, the points made in this article are very true.
159 - afromujer
I am torn about this issue. On the one hand, I agree a Christian should not support illegal activity, even in the case of a poor immigrant. The Bible says in Deuteronomy 16:19 that in justice. "you shall not show partiality". Also, Exodus 12:49 says, "One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you." There are several other verses saying the same.
However, there is a significant amount of care that should be shown to a "stranger", or foreigner among us, according to Deuteronomy 10:18-19: "He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt." Also, Jesus said in one of his parables about the Kingdom of Heaven, "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in" (Matthew 25:34).
I think my conclusion is that the "stranger" should obey the laws of the land and identify themselves honestly. However, even if we must administer justice, we should respect the "stranger" and do not oppress them by splitting up families (I know personally a sad case of this) or put them in jail if they are trying to get back to their own country (I know some illegal Mexican immigrants are afraid to go back to Mexico because they might get arrested at the border).
160 - Karen
With all due respect, I think that you are on the wrong when you say that supporting illegal immigration is not Christian. God is all loving and does not discriminate toward anyone because of their legal status. I was brought to the USA as a baby, illegally, and I am proud to say that today my parents and I are citizens. I am in love with a wonderful man who is illegal and who's only mistake, in your eyes, is having come to this country to help support his parents back home. I know their is a group of people that break the law and ruin everyone else's reputation, but I do ask you to please not catagorize all illegal immigrants as criminals. That is not Christian!
161 - John Poshepny
Illegal Immigrants need to get the hell out of America, we'd have a much lower unemployment rate if it wasn't for these slime bags.
162 - Cindy D
Bah. If you want to punish them, make them live inside your head. I think I'd leave the country.
163 - ben
fuck all of u the immigrants sgould go back over the border
164 - Shelby ***
I am an 18 year old WHITE girl and I have read the bible dear!!!! i didnt want to be the one to tell some of you this but you truely are a bunch of idiots!! I would just like to state that the person who wrote this artical must be very closed minded and incapable of seeing past the little things .. because if they would have then seeing the big picture might have not been such an obstical ..obviously.
for starters.. the only law God requires you to follow is his law!!!all his requirements are right in the bible inorder to live a rightious life. If they comply with the goverment then so be it and if not it doesnt matter because when we get to the "other side" none of this will matter .. it will be depended on if you lived rightiously or not!!! And btw the unemployment rate is not high because of illeagal immagrants .... if you are seriously not equiped to the degree that an illeagal immagrant would have takin your place at a job then im sorry but i rather have them doing it!!!
165 - [left intentionally blank]
So here's the deal. (This could be considered slightly off topic of your article).
I keep reading through facts that illegal immigrants take jobs that Americans DONT WANT or can't do.
I understand that some people can't do the jobs the illegal immigrants are doing as of now. But for those who don't want the kinds of jobs illegal immigrants take?!
Seriously, I've been hearing a bunch of people complaining that they take our jobs. But even if jobs were open, will they actually take them? Seriously!
I need someone to explain this matter, please.
166 - roger nowosielski
It hasn't really been tried. That's the usual argument for menial jobs in the agriculture industry, for example, and by-partisan, I might add. Some people argue that you could demand that the people on welfare take those jobs as a precondition; but there hasn't been any strong legislative push in that direction to change the laws. So we don't really know what the response would be.
167 - Joining the Border Patrol
I think that it's interesting that many Christians cite Romans 13 to basically say that we should unconditionally and blindly obey all laws the government passes except those that directly contradict the Bible. But they conviently seem to forget about Romans 13 when it comes to illegal immigration. They rationalize breaking immigration laws and letting illegal aliens stay here on "compassion" and "they're just coming here to get a better life". So, let me ask you, if I broke into someone's home and stole money and food, then I stole their identity and took their job, would you want me convicted and punished? I'll put money on the fact that you would!
Second, if you think that it's so much better to help them than send them back, why don't you take you're lazy butt over to Mexico and Columbia and all those other countries they're coming from and help them? I've done that. I've gone to Mexico and helped build houses and schooles and done what I can to make their lives better without them having to break the law. You can have compassion on them and help them without condoning, encouraging, or helping them violate the laws of this country.
Third, how do we know illegal aliens are taking jobs Americans won't? Can you show me proof? I'd bet that if illegal aliens were suddenly gone, that there would be millions of American citizens lined up to take those jobs. Especially now during hard econimic times.
168 - Joining the Border Patrol
And as a side note: I'm the 18 year old son of a legal immigrant.
Someone once said about illegal immigration "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" in reference to American citizens wanting illegal aliens punished. OK, then let me. I'm not the one who broke dozens of laws to get here. I'm not the one refusing to pay taxes. I'm not the one smuggling drugs here to pay the human smugglers. I'm not the one throwing rocks at Border Patrol Agents trying to kill them. So, hell yeah, let me throw the first stone.
169 - Dr Dreadful
I'd bet that if illegal aliens were suddenly gone, that there would be millions of American citizens lined up to take those jobs.
Then where are they? Why aren't they lining up now?
Especially now.
170 - Ruvy
DD,
Things have change just a tad since Jinger Jarrett penned this piece three years ago. It was obvious to me then that the States was going down the toilet - but now I have to SHOUT to be heard above the FLUSHING NOISE of you guys going down the toilet.
Have a good trip! And remember. Israel is behind you!
171 - Joining the Border Patrol
They're not there because illegal aliens are still here. The illegal aliens haven't left, so employers aren't being forced to hire people who demand certain wages, lunch breaks, etc. Illegal aliens, for the most part, know that they can't complain to the government about unfair treatment at work because they'll be deported. But if they were gone, employers would have no choice but to hire citizens/legal immigrants. The problem is also compounded by welfare. Not only are illegal aliens providing employers with an alternative to high wage demanding people, but those high wage demanding people don't WANT to get a job because they're getting money without having to work for it. I guarantee that if people weren't on welfare, they would be out there demanding the illegal aliens be deported so they can get jobs. It's really just simple economics.
172 - Cindy
Hey border patrol person,you've looked at the other side of the story and you still feel that way? I'm surprised.
173 - Joining the Border Patrol
Why are you surprised?
174 - Cindy
I'm surprised because, having parents who are immigrants, I would think you'd object to what's been done to the Mexican people by the U.S. and their government. How can you justify taking away peoples' land like that? And what about the maquiladora factories? You don't sound like you'd put up with that if Mexico were able to do that to the people of the U.S. Would that be okay to do to your mom and dad or sisters and brothers? Take away their land and force them to work in sweatshop conditions, like slaves, amid toxic pollution and in tent cities?
175 - Joining the Border Patrol
So, what exactly has the U.S. government done to the Mexican people? As far as trade goes, I don't buy anything that comes from Mexico specifically because of how the workers are treated. I don't like it, so I don't support them by giving them my money. It's that simple. And if the government doesn't like it, they should stop all trade with Mexico.
Taking their land? We won the land fairly. Americans made an agreement with Mexico during the 1800's to live in what is now the American Southwest. The Mexican government increasingly broke agreements with Americans. That's what started the Mexican-American war. You really should go back and learn your history. We certainly take their land, but we only took it after they initatied a war with us. And we don't force them into their current working conditions. We support it. But, again, that's why I don't buy anything from Mexico.
And if you're so concerned, what do you do to stop it? What do you do to help them? If you're really concerned, you should be helping them a lot.
If you condone, encourage, and enable people to break laws the government legitimatly makes, you shouldn't have a double standard. Again, would you be as sympathatic to me if I broke laws and stole from people because I'm poor? If not, you're a hyprocite!! If yes, then you have no concept of law and order. If you want to excuse people from immigration laws based on poverty, you must also except everybody else from prosecution based on poverty.