Assailed on all sides, Hugo Chavez stands firm for a better life for the people of Venezuela and all nations.
Everyone's favorite Banana Republican, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela took time out from a busy schedule of personally rewriting the new Venezuelan constitution, making it illegal to criticize his regime, shutting down newspapers and having political opponents imprisoned, beaten and murdered in their homes to announce that the spirit of Josef Stalin appeared to him in a dream and told him that the United States was planning to have him assassinated, though Papa Joe neglected to mention that political assassinations are specifically prohibited in the United States under President Reagan's 1981 Executive Order 12333, which says, “No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination," and which has been reaffirmed by every president since that time including President Bush.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - RJ
As expected, the Left has responded to an article detailing the unsavory antics of an anti-American autocratic leader with...attacks on the US!
27 - mikeinrome
Chavez was democratically elected. Period. He survived a recall vote. Period. Last time I heard, the right wing thought Democracy was a good enough cause to start unprovoked wars for.
28 - Rich
"Anti-American" as defined be whom the jingoist right?
I assume its better to not question or be critical of our executive branch, but then what would we call it, a facist state?
29 - RJ
The Left will always adore socialist/communist despots who take power and oppose the United States. It's in their blood.
30 - MCH
...and Bobby (RJ) Elliott will always adore phoney draft dodgers like Rush Limbaugh.
Chickenhawks of a feather, flock together.
31 - Richard Kozack
Great Article.
I, like P. J. O'Rourke, was very liberal when younger, but then saw the error of my ways.
So please be patient with the young liberal people calling you an idiot. Eventually they will grow up. Unfortunately for them their comments will exist in cyberspace forever to haunt them.
BTW. Stephanopoulos, a Clinton ADVISOR, actually urged assassination, but that didn't seem to bother anyone. Good think we have our unbiased press to protect us ;-)
32 - Dave Nalle
>>Chavez was democratically elected. <<
Several years after he attempted to overthrow the previous democratically elected government by force.
>>Period. He survived a recall vote. <<
Right after protest marches against his regime where he had snipers shoot people in the crowd.
>>Period. Last time I heard, the right wing thought Democracy was a good enough cause to start unprovoked wars for.<<
You must have been listening to different news reports than I was. Democracy is a beneficial side-effect of the war in Iraq. Certainly not the cause of it.
Dave
33 - Eric Olsen
excellent and powerful Dave, although we still don't need politically potent televangelists cavalierly calling for the extremination of sovereign leaders
34 - Wisdo
Dave, childish and badly thought out post there. Look up socialism in a dictionery and read a history of the 20th century while you're at it. The Kremlin was about as socialist an organisation as the 3rd Reich. Communist Dictatorships are not socialist countries. Try and understand the difference if you can; England for example, is a socialist country, even though a Queen is head of state. Ireland is socialist, France, Germany, Holland, Belgium. Are these lands communist? Are they dictatorships? Are they in fact places where the average standard of living is higher than that in America?
Mr Chavez is trying to reform his country - a place long riddled with the disease of corruption, where American busines interests take precedence over the lives of the vast majority of the people there. Mr Chavez is also a prime mover in an attempt to unite South America and this is seen as the beginning of the end for dominance of the US in this region. It's no wonder you're spitting blood, the people of South America have been indentured servants to the US for so long you regard any leader who wants to go another way as a "dictator". Chavez was ELECTED. TWICE. And by a far more popular vote than George Bush. The CIA-backed coup against him (filmed by an Irish team of journalists who were at the site at the time) failed immediately because the people of Venezuela are obviously less gullible than their American counterparts.
Hugo Chavez is not a dictator. He is no friend of the US either, and I think you might ask yourselves why.
35 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
Wisdo: what kind of anti-American creep acts as an apologist for a communist dictator? Please provide the name of any communist leader what was NOT a dictator in the last 100 years?
"Chavez was ELECTED."
Yes, we know about in "totalitarian" countries. They're joke.
"It's no wonder you're spitting blood, the people of South America have been indentured servants to the US for so long you regard any leader who wants to go another way as a "dictator"."
What bullshit. I guess it's the USA's fault that much of South America is a third world dung heap, too.
36 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"Yes, we know about in "totalitarian" countries. They're joke."
This should say: "Yes, we know about "elections" in totalitarian countries. They're a joke. This is what I get for trying to watch Meet the Depressed at the same time I'm on the computer.
37 - Dr. Juan Gonzalez
Far from being "what most believe is the most offensive insult in the spanish language", representing the word "PENDEJO" as such, shows that Mr. D. Myers is as ignorant of the spanish language as he seems to be about a great many other facts concerning Venezuela. Speaking as a professional linguist I can clarify the problem. "Pendejo" has exactly the same scatological "weight" (i.e. the same degree of obscenity) as the english double-barreled colloquial expression for the anus...a-s h--e. It is used with the same intention and with the same frequency in the spanish speaking world, as "a-s h--e" is in the english speaking world, particularly in the U.S. Generally the expression was correctly translated in the English press (Europe)as a-s h--e. If Chavez had wanted to use a literal translation of a-s h--e to charecterize Messrs.Bush and Rice he would have had to call them "huecos de culo" which though eccentric, linguistically speaking, would, to a spanish ear, be profoundly offensive. "Pendejo", according to the official dictionary of the Real Academia Espanola means "Pelo que nace en el pubis" = ie. a pubic hair and secondarily and by far the most usually intended meaning "Hombre cobarde y pusilanime" = ie. A pusillanimous (= ie. small or feeble minded) and cowardly man. Obviously by changing the gender suffix it can be used for the same type of woman. {In the plural, the masculine form is always used.} I hope this has enlightened Mr Myers and others who may have been puzzled by the question.
38 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Well, I learned something. Thank you, Dr. Gonzales.
I had heard the expression "pendejo" used in numerous films and understood from the context of the dialog that it is an insult, but I never really knew what the word actually meant.
39 - Dr Juan Gonzalez
Further to my recent etymological comments, I would also like to correct Mr. Myers on another point. Mr Myers calls President Chavez a "Banana Republican" presumably considering it witty and referring to the despective term used for mostly Central American Rebublics which grow and export bananas mostly to the USA. Venezuela, though sharing the same ethnicity as its banana growing neighbours and therefore also sharing in the intended insult is not known for banana exports, it is rather better known for being one of the world's major petroleum exporters. So maybe Mr Myers might want to call Mr Chavez a Petroleum Republican which I think is more impressive and certainly much, much more important.
40 - Anthony Grande
Chavez does need to be assasinated, Robertson should run in 08, and you anti-Americans can go (edited)
Honestly, I don't know much about Chavez, but the pictures of him shaking hands with Castro is enough for me to agree with Robertson.
41 - Dave Nalle
>>Dave, childish and badly thought out post there. Look up socialism in a dictionery and read a history of the 20th century while you're at it. <<
Wisdo, in addition to have two graduate degrees in history, I also lived in the Soviet Union for three years. I've got a pretty good idea what socialism is and is not - I also know how to spell 'dictionary'.
>>The Kremlin was about as socialist an organisation as the 3rd Reich. Communist Dictatorships are not socialist countries.<<
Wrong. Communism is an economic system, while socialism is a political system. The Soviet Union was both, but after years of corruption only the trappings of most of their institutions survived.
>>Try and understand the difference if you can; England for example, is a socialist country, even though a Queen is head of state.<<
No,
England is a constitutional monarchy with some socialist institutions.
>> Ireland is socialist,<<
Ireland is a democratic republic with a strong socialist party but by no means full implementation of socialism.
>> France, Germany, Holland, Belgium. Are these lands communist? <<
No, they all feature some form of democratic or parliamentary government with socialist features, but are not full implementations of socialism or communism.
>>Are they dictatorships? Are they in fact places where the average standard of living is higher than that in America?<<
No and no. Their standards of living are close to the US, but they have far higher unemployment and lower productivity, legally limited working hours, and enough restrictions on business
BTW, socialism and communism do not guarantee dictatorship, but they both have the effect of concentrating power in the hands of government which makes it very easy for an unscrupulous leader or group of leaders to take personal control of a country and turn it into a dictatorship.
>>Mr Chavez is trying to reform his country - a place long riddled with the disease of corruption, where American busines interests take precedence over the lives of the vast majority of the people there.<<
His reform of his country includes taking away free speech rights and consolidating personal power in a fashion characteristic of dictators.
>> Mr Chavez is also a prime mover in an attempt to unite South America and this is seen as the beginning of the end for dominance of the US in this region.<<
His plan to unite it is based on exporting communism which has been proven again and again to lead to far worse conditions in the nations which adopt it, especially in the area of basic human rights.
(propaganda regurgitation deleted)
>>Hugo Chavez is not a dictator. He is no friend of the US either, and I think you might ask yourselves why.<<
Because dictators need the threat of an enemy to justify the restrictions of rights and militarization which consolidate their rule.
Dave
42 - Dave Nalle
Dr. Gonzales - I'd take your etymological critiques a lot more seriously if you'd been able to get my name right. Who's Mr. Myers, anyway?
As for your definition of 'pendejo', it's largely subjective. That's not the meaning attached to it by native Spanish speakers of Mexican descent here in Texas. The word means different things to different hispanic sub-cultures. And regardless of how you use it, the fact remains that it's damned rude, especially when applied to a woman.
As to my description of Chavez as a 'bannana republican', that was to make the simple point that he is a tinhorn dictator in the comic opera tradition of the largely mythical 'banana republic' that exists mostly in the popular imagination. Calling him by a more accurate term defuses the derision I had intended.
Dave
43 - louis revilla
You have to be kidding? You obviously have NEVER read about the poverty and the abuse of power and privilege by the elites of Venezuela. Sure, a few folks come here to go to school or work and naturally IF you ever met one of these folks, most likely they would be critical of Chavez. But let's face it, most of those immigrants, had money, connections job offers or "friends and family" who allowed them to come to this country.
Talk to the poor and disenfranchised. What is wrong with land distribution for the working-class? Maybe you should check out the Supreme Court decision in Kelo v New London. Maybe that most accurately meets with YOUR approval?
Check out the history of the US while you are at it. Read about Cuba BEFORE castro. Don't take your knowledge of the subject from refugees in Miami. That would be a LITTLE one-sided.
Did you know that 80% of the population of Cuba is literate? Have you checked the statisitics of the rest of the Latin American countries? Have you seen US stats lately?
Pat Robertson IS A FOOL, plain and simple. Read some of his other past comments. Note his relationship to Charles Taylor in Liberia and Mobutu in Congo.
You are talking out of your ASS!!! Better wake up. Remember the attempted coup in Venezuela?
The haves don't like the socialist tendencies of the current leadership in Venezuela> SO WHAT?
It is time they spread some of the wealth. That way MAYBE fewer of these folks would "bother you" when you take your family to WALMART to shop.
READ before you talk.Besides, when that idiot Robertson got caught he immediately downplayed his statements by LYING and suggesting he did not mean "TAKE OUT" as in "kill" Perhaps he meant "take out" as in Chinese food?
Besides, he professes to be a CHRISTIAN leader. Ever read the Ten Commandments?
What a bunch of boloney to try to DEFEND such filth.
44 - Dave Nalle
Louis, perhaps read the post before you go ballistic. The original post isn't about Robertson except to mention that he's an idiot. It's about Chavez and his abuses of power.
Yes, the people of Venezuela may have been in bad shape prior to Chavez. But the repeatedly demonstrated truth is that destroying your productive class in a society doesn't make anyone better o'f, it just makes the whole nation poorer. Give it a couple of years and you'll see how happy not having a functioning commercial economy makes Venezuelans when they are essentially slaves working for military cartels.
Dave
45 - louis revilla
Anthony Grande,
[edited] You obviously KNOW NOTHING about Venezuela, not do you read or look at any news other than FOX or the 700 club.
Why does Chavez "need to be taken out?" You can't even locate the country on the map.
Shut the HELL up!!. It's "sheep" like you who have the nerve to Talk what you do not know.
Go back to school or get a library card.
46 - louis revilla
By the By,
When someone is attacked they defend,usually. When you are the leader of a country you clamp down on dissent through various means. Look at the situation is Saudi Arabia, for example. This is what one calls "rooting out" udesirables. Perhaps you might stifle the media, or in the CASE of the US you MIGHT "control the media" create a mass consensus, and then convince the citizenry that what "they" think is correct, is IN FACT original. When of course, it is not.
Or, you might deport, jail, torture, or have idiots denounce those who "QUESTION" the status quo. The scenarios and gameplans vary. But keep in mind they are ALL meant to preserve the status quo.
When Chavez clamps down on "civil liberties," I suspect this could be an effort to pursue objectives that benefit MORE of the population, rather than a select few.
Think about it YOU PRO-US policy [edited]
OK, so I've got wealthy folks, (who own papers, television stations, radio stations, etc., SUPOORTED by the oil/right-wing elements in THIS country and other puppet states, CREATING CONFUSION, hostility, violence, criticism turmoil etc., COSTING time and money...
WHICH PROHIBITS productivity and concentration on ISSUES that matter. ISSUES that will benefit the general populace.
Two choices: quiet down or "take out."
I applaud Chavez for NOT killing-off the opposition. Check out Israeli policy (coutesy of US taxpayer support).
I WELCOME COMMENTS. You have my email address
47 - Richard Kozack
Lighten up Louis.
You're never going to bring people around to your way of thinking by insulting them.
48 - louis revilla
IT IS ABOUT ROBERTSON, Dave.
It is about folks (people like Robertson) interjecting capitalist viewpoints into a country or environment, which has been RAPED and pillaged prior to the establishment of any attempt at equitable distribution of scarce resources.
Let me BREAK THIS DOWN TO YOU. Pat Robertson, has a medium and a following, which allows him to DISTORT the reality of Venezuela and other states that don't "toe the party-line."
Pat Robertson is greedy, malicious and self-righteous. These are characteristics that prevail in OUR SOCEITY as well.
He is merely the most obvious example TODAY. It COULD BE about Chavez, but IF YOU are familiar with coups and coup attempts in Latin America, or movements, check Peru and Ecuador, you WILL NOT that when the people rise en mass, leaders back-down resign or are "taken out."
You don't see that in Venezuela. What you see are "bites" or images that SUPPORT the US position.
THINK ABOUT IT DAVE!!! I am NOT "excited" nor am I hostile about your position, I just believe that IF YOU read more, you would NOT be so quick to suggest that Chavez or Castro for that matter, ARE THE REAL CAUSES of such deprivation.
Robertson, is acknowledged as a leader in this country. Yet is diatribe has NO BASIS in fact, nor reality!!
So, HE IS "the problem." And he should be discussed as a symptom of a larger disease, namely maladept US foreign policy.
Plain and simple.
49 - Anthony Grande
"Did you know that 80% of the population of Cuba is literate? Have you checked the statisitics of the rest of the Latin American countries? Have you seen US stats lately?"
So are you saying Communism ain't so bad.
"Talk to the poor and disenfranchised."
Have you ever wondered why they are poor. Supporting a dictator sure doesn't help them.
My father grew up in poverty and watched everyone around him elect the same people. He had an idea: Stop coplaining, work hard and get an education. This philosophy led him to conservatism and out of poverty.
"You can't even locate the country on the map."
Mindless comment, but it pissed me off enough to answer: Venezuela is the Northern most country in S.A. It borders Colombia, Brazil and Aruba is right off its coast. Venezuela used to be part of the Spanish Colony Gran Colombia and is the birthplace of Simon Bolivar. I teach my A.P. History teacher.
"Read about Cuba BEFORE castro."
Well I know that Cuba was a huge tourist attraction and the people were freer than they are now considering that Batista was also a Dictator.
Read about Cuba BEFORE castro.
"Don't take your knowledge of the subject from refugees in Miami."
Oh give them some credit, they are the only ones who are brave enough to step up to these dictators. They are the TRUE heroes, not Castro and Chavez.
They should both be taken out ONLY by their own people. I think we sent a clear enough message by taking out Saddam.
"YOU ARE A FOOL."
Don't you ever call me a fool and support Castro and Chavez at the same time. Move to Cuba and call Castro a fool and see what your master does.
It's "sheep" like you who vote for people like Chavez knowing well that that will be the last time you vote.
50 - louis revilla
Political correctness is NOT my objective Dave.
TRUTH IS. "trying to win people over to my viewpoint." Is not my goal either.
Either you speak the truth and you speak from the gut or soul, based on intelligence and knowledge, perhaps with a few harsh words...OR, you "try to convince others that you are right. Even though, YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I, that your position and those like you WILL NOT CHANGE.
A waste of time Dave. Either you things in black and white or color.
Me, I prefer color
51 - louis revilla
Grande,
It is a shame that YOU ADMITTEDLY say that you don't know "much" about Venezuela, YET you are "teching an AP history instructor."
Oh Boy!! Heaven help us. My great grandparents came from other countries too. So what.
You dad is a conservative, and therefore YOU too have "followed dad." No offense but obvioulsy neither one of you know the history of the US beyond what you learned in high school and maybe a course in community college as a prerequisite for a trade certificate.
Your father probably came from Italy or was it your grandfather? Anyway, Italians, for example, fought HARD, REALLY HARD, for equal access to work, wages and educational opportunities for THEIR children.
Many were socialists or at the very least "LIBERALS."
Because you don't know, I can't fault you, BUT the unemployment check you get and the social security check you hope to get, were liberal victories.
When I say "liberal" I am talking about better opportunities and provisions for ALL of us. NOT JUST A FEW AND THE POWERFUL.
See, you have been brainwashed in to believeing that "liberal" means "welfare recipients," "gays," and "tree huggers."
What you don't understand Anthony, and I forgive you for this, is THAT if it was NOT for liberals you would be working in a factory for twelves centws an hour seven days a week.
DON'T take YOUR GOOD FORTUNE for granted. And don't assume everyone should think like you.
I applaud you for looking up Venezuela on the map.
Now IF you would like to try reading a bit more, I would be more than happy to suggest a few books you might want to read, YET I realize I am wasting my time. BECAUSE I know YOU ARE RIGHT and OF COURSE I am wrong, right?
So, how can we educate you, Anthony? You know it all already or at least think you do.
Let's NOT talk Saddam Hussein that is another topic. But let me say that I am an American, served in the military and pay my taxes. So, with that in mind let me suggest authenticating my "Americanism" is a sign of a weak position,Huh? What do you say to that?
52 - Dr. Juan Gonzalez
Dear Mr D. Nalle, I assumed that the article appearing above was by David Myers. Upon further more careful observation I note that in fact he is just the author of a book highlighted immediately before your article. Pardon the error, I rarely if ever become involved in popular and usually uninformed internet commentary. But to answer your further points....unlike the english language which is officially enriched by usage and whose official dictionary now runs to some 27 large volumes complete after more than 100 years in preparation, the spanish language is dictated by an offical Language Academy as is the French language and many other languages around the world. The official spanish dictionary quoted by me contains all the words and all the meanings currently considered spanish and is only the size of one, yes only one, of the smaller volumes of the OED. If the word or its meaning is not in the Spanish Academy Dictionary it's simply not kosher or should I say spanish. So much for your not too fluent Tex-Mex friends' usage. Spanish language is therefore as far away from "subjective" as you can get. As to the "Banana Republic" epithet, it is an americanism used to belittle small Central American countries not usually applied to large and wealthy South American nations, and though I am not absolutely certain of the fact, I think it was the arch American imperialist, Mr Theodore Roosvelt who coined it when a head of one of those small "subservient" countries had the temerity to contradict TR. Yes, PENDEJO is rude just as A-s H--e is rude but ruder indeed is a call to assasination!As for your description of Mr Chavez as a "tinhorn" dictator I must say, linguistically, its a new one on me. The expression you might have been seeking is "tinpot" dictator. In any case Mr Chavez is neither. He has won seven popular and fair elections (a fact attested to by large numbers of international observers including America's own Jimmy Carter) in Venezuela by the largest majorities in that country's history. You may not like him , I may not like him but the glaring reality is that the Venezuelan masses love him. As democrats it seems to me more seemly to await the end of his constitutional term and then replace him through elections. One thing is certain, however, the more dissenting Americans befoul themselves by obscenities such as the call for an assasination by a "Christian" cleric the more Mr Chavez's anti-american rhetoric will gain adherents. Regards JG PS Note that my surname contains two zeds(England) or zees(American), no "s" whatever your Texan-Mexican friends might say.
53 - Anthony Grande
"It is a shame that YOU ADMITTEDLY say that you don't know "much" about Venezuela, YET you are "teching an AP history instructor."
I said I don't know much about Chavez, I know plenty about Venezuela.
"You dad is a conservative, and therefore YOU too have "followed dad."
"My father didn't bring me up in politics and discover it on my own."
"Italians, for example, fought HARD, REALLY HARD, for equal access to work, wages and educational opportunities for THEIR children.
Many were socialists or at the very least "LIBERALS.""
My dad is Italian, but he grew up in a poor area in L.A. His family were the only Italians. Italians are far from Socialists, look at what we did to IL Duce, it should be an example to Cubans and Venezuelans.
Assuming you know who Il Duce is.
"Because you don't know, I can't fault you, BUT the unemployment check you get and the social security check you hope to get, were liberal victories."
I am 16 years old and already have a job. I would rather starve than collect unemployment, if everyone thought this way this would be a better place. Social Security is a victory for everyone, not just libs.
"is THAT if it was NOT for liberals you would be working in a factory for twelves centws an hour seven days a week."
That is how my father started, until he bettered himself so his kids don't have to.
"What you don't understand Anthony"
The thing is that I understand too much and that pisses people off. My mind is too strong to be influenced by liberal teachers, MTV and Eminem. And that really pisses people off.
"When I say "liberal" I am talking about better opportunities and provisions for ALL of us. NOT JUST A FEW AND THE POWERFUL"
That is pure brainwash. I was trying to use my father as an example for this, but I will make it simpler: Don't you notice that the people who keep electing libs to office are the bottom part of society, uneducated, poor and yet they still vote for the same people. Unemployment and social securtiy are all they have gotten for electing libs, but that is not enough. Republicans don't give handouts, people need to learn how to take care of themselves and get an education so they can move up and out of poverty. This is why most Republicans are upper or middle class, because we don't take handouts we do better things.
Why do the poor vote Democrat??? Where have the democrats gotten them??? Welfare is not enough!!! Complaining is not enough!!!
54 - louis revilla
I don't know where to start with you anthony other than to say YOU HAVE A LOT TO LEARN but it is GOOD that a 16 year-old kid is wondering why politics and people issues are so much of a problem and VERY confusing.
Anthony, take it from someone who is old enough to be your father, READ AS much as YOU CAN, turn OFF the TV. Anthony DON'T LISTEN to the "experts" and make sure you read ALL sides of an issue.
This is NOT to demean your dad, BUT PLEASE don't "go along with the program."
If you listen to the grown-ups who have already formed their opinions often based on limited knowledge of issues and subjects, then YOU TOO may get stuck in a mind-set that is hard to break. You know "I did it why can't they, blah, blah, blah."
It is NOT like that. I don't know wher to begin with you. Try a cool WEBSITE at FAIR.org
Or liten to discussions on Democracy.org. Don't see criticism of politics or people as "anti anything." What it is is often people like yourself ARE CONCERNED about "why all the things are messed up."
What I would suggest to you Anthony IS KEEP writing, BUT try to form your OWN conclusions BASED on QUESTIONING authority and what you are told.
You may love your father BUT I WOULD SUGGEST he is NO expert on international relations, history, social science, economics or whatever.
Neither am I BUT I do prefer these types of subjects to NASCAR and The O'Reilly Factor.
You know what I mean kid. It sound like YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH. Seek it out, but remember at your age YOU NOT POSSIBLY KNOW too much. Particularly enough to comment on things of such magnitude.
I too am of Sicilian heritage, so You will understand my straightforwardness.
Read about Sacco and Vanzetti. Try that. Try reading The Nation or watch CSPAN when the people in power and their groups are NOT espousing (talking about) the way things are ACCORDING TO THEM.
I don't know IF YOU READ BOOKS but IF YOU DO send me a note here and I will suggest a couple of basic books that will show you that there is ANOTHER way of seeing reality.
OK. kid
55 - Anthony Grande
Alright look [edited] commie. You are no paisan of mine and you never will be. You are a [edited] FASCIST
Don't talk about my dad, like I said my Dad is not political, politics are my own interest He has no influence on me. I tried to use my dad as an example he is not the discussion here. My mom has more influence on me and she is a Democrat (not political)
And talk to me like a person! Forget I am 16.
You are just one of those liberals who brainwash all my peers. It bounces off me.
Liberals are good for nothing. I am Californian and I am surrounded by them so don't tell me I don't know.
Now back to the conversation: You never answered this so I am copying and pasting it:
"When I say "liberal" I am talking about better opportunities and provisions for ALL of us. NOT JUST A FEW AND THE POWERFUL" by You
That is pure brainwash. I was trying to use my father as an example for this, but I will make it simpler: Don't you notice that the people who keep electing libs to office are the bottom part of society, uneducated, poor and yet they still vote for the same people. Unemployment and social securtiy are all they have gotten for electing libs, but that is not enough. Republicans don't give handouts, people need to learn how to take care of themselves and get an education so they can move up and out of poverty. This is why most Republicans are upper or middle class, because we don't take handouts we do better things.
Why do the poor vote Democrat??? Where have the democrats gotten them??? Welfare is not enough!!! Complaining is not enough!!!
56 - RogerMDillion
"Republicans don't give handouts,"
Really? How about corporate welfare? Or the recent bills like Highway and Energy that passed. They are full of pork to red states like Alaska.
"Republicans are upper or middle class, because we don't take handouts"
Tell that to fearless leader Limbaugh.
Good luck at community college.
57 - Anthony Grande
No, newcomer we are talking about the people that are living in poverty. We don't like to pay people who don't work. The soup kitchens for the homeless is a different issue also.
Republicans don't sit on their ass and in South Central L.A. while their kids get shot it and blame the Rebublican leaders for themselves being poor.
Liberalism does not stand for opportunities for all. They like the poor people where they are so some one will vote for them.
Limbaugh is not my leader. I think I listened to him only once in my life.
58 - RogerMDillion
Got it. You are against poor minorities getting free money but you are okay when it's rich white people getting handouts called by another name.
59 - Anthony Grande
Sorry I missed this part earlier that is why I didn't include it is comment #55.
"Neither am I BUT I do prefer these types of subjects to NASCAR and The O'Reilly Factor."
Stop with the stereotypes, I find Nascar very boring and O'Reilly is a confused, sorry, stupid minded (edited) who wants attention. O'Reilly reminds me of that (edited) Dave Nalle. They both have no allies and everyone hates them.
60 - RogerMDillion
You've missed a great deal, AG
61 - Anthony Grande
"You are against poor minorities getting free money but you are okay when it's rich white people getting handouts called by another name."
Woh, Woh I didn't mean I missed that part you post this at the same time I was posting. Now what are you talking about??? Bush gave tax cuts to everyone who paid taxes!!! I should no my father, 2 brothers and a brother in law are all Accountant/bookkeepers.
62 - RogerMDillion
They obviously weren't English teachers.
Who is talking about tax cuts? You don't like to pay people who don't work, but you don't mind giving money to corporations in the form of bailouts.
63 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"You don't like to pay people who don't work, but you don't mind giving money to corporations in the form of bailouts."
It's not smart to invest in losing stock, don't you know that? Corporations will do something potentially more constructive with that money. That's smart stock speculation. Oh that's right, an English teacher wouldn't know about smart business theory
64 - RogerMDillion
I'm not for any handouts, [edited]. Communists like you that are okay with the government taking our money and redistributing it make me sick.
65 - Steve S
Oh that's right, an English teacher wouldn't know about smart business theory
But a company needing a bailout sure would.
66 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
" Communists like you that are okay with the government taking our money and redistributing it make me sick."
hey [edited], MacroEcon101: whatever corporations earn we collect back in taxes. And also, corporations create jobs and fuel the national economy. Being able to earn a lot of money is the greatest thing about America, besides it having a strong military defense and a powerful presence globally.
Unemployed people, poor people, etc, don't create jobs. They sponge off the system, collect welfare, and don't pay taxes.
67 - Dave Nalle
>>When someone is attacked they defend,usually. When you are the leader of a country you clamp down on dissent through various means. <<
Odd, the US and most of the European countries have leaders - in fact they go through leaders on a regular basis, but yet they haven't felt a need to 'clamp down on dissent' in a couple of generations - or in the case of the US and Britain in a couple of hundred years. Yet Chavez feels a need to do it within a couple of years of being elected. Do you think that's a good sing?
>>Look at the situation is Saudi Arabia, for example. This is what one calls "rooting out" udesirables. Perhaps you might stifle the media, or in the CASE of the US you MIGHT "control the media" create a mass consensus, and then convince the citizenry that what "they" think is correct, is IN FACT original. When of course, it is not.<<
Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian oligarchy that has legal slavery. Are you trying to use it as a favorable comparison for Venezuela? Ok, you win - Venezuela under Chavez is better than Saudi Arabia. Better than Pol Pot's Campbodia too. Congratulations. Yipee!
>>When Chavez clamps down on "civil liberties," I suspect this could be an effort to pursue objectives that benefit MORE of the population, rather than a select few.<<
So basically he can do no wrong, and when he takes away peoples fundamental human rights it's for their own good? Does he pay you a salary to say this crazy stuff?
>>OK, so I've got wealthy folks, (who own papers, television stations, radio stations, etc., SUPOORTED by the oil/right-wing elements in THIS country and other puppet states, CREATING CONFUSION, hostility, violence, criticism turmoil etc., COSTING time and money...<<
Providing jobs, an influx of cash into the economy, promoting modernization, all that bad stuff.
>>Two choices: quiet down or "take out."
I applaud Chavez for NOT killing-off the opposition.<<
Yet. He's already started jailing them for indefinite periods without trial and someone has death squads killing them in their houses, though no one has dared to blame Chavez for that yet.
Dave
68 - RogerMDillion
Marxist the Sane,
Okay, let's pretend that you really are so ignorant that you are unaware that corporations pay accountants to keep them from paying the taxes they owe. It's easy to do from your comments.
If you were a true American, you would believe in capatalism. For every poorly run corporation that fails, the market forces would cause a new one to spring up in its place.
I'm sure you and your fellow communists are happy to see the government give free handouts to the airlines, but how do you explain the success of Southwest and JetBlue? Your welfare system is keeping future businessman from taking part of the economy and bringing fresh ideals to the world.
Why you think the government needs to help out business failures by redistributing everyone's hard earned money? Your ACLU card is showing, comrade. Allow people and businesses to stand on their merits and abilities and stop this money grab on honest working Americans.
Go back to your coffee house and discuss Chairman Mao's little red book with your hippie friends and leave grown-ups, who actually know how the world works, alone.
69 - Anthony Grande
Mark, why is he calling you a Communists???
70 - Dave Nalle
>>IT IS ABOUT ROBERTSON, Dave.
It is about folks (people like Robertson) interjecting capitalist viewpoints into a country or environment, which has been RAPED and pillaged prior to the establishment of any attempt at equitable distribution of scarce resources.<<
Robertson has no role whatsoever in the policies of the Venezuelan government, the businesses that operate there or the monied classes of the country.
>>Let me BREAK THIS DOWN TO YOU. Pat Robertson, has a medium and a following, which allows him to DISTORT the reality of Venezuela and other states that don't "toe the party-line."
Pat Robertson is greedy, malicious and self-righteous. These are characteristics that prevail in OUR SOCEITY as well.<<
These are characteristics of many human beings, but Robertson's level of influence in foreign affairs or government policy is negligible.
>>He is merely the most obvious example TODAY. It COULD BE about Chavez, but IF YOU are familiar with coups and coup attempts in Latin America, or movements, check Peru and Ecuador, you WILL NOT that when the people rise en mass, leaders back-down resign or are "taken out."<<
And sometimes the new government is better while quite often it is worse. The would be liberators often become the worst of oppressors.
>>You don't see that in Venezuela. What you see are "bites" or images that SUPPORT the US position.
THINK ABOUT IT DAVE!!! I am NOT "excited" nor am I hostile about your position,<<
Then why do you keep posting in all caps?
>> I just believe that IF YOU read more, you would NOT be so quick to suggest that Chavez or Castro for that matter, ARE THE REAL CAUSES of such deprivation.<<
Facts are facts. These leaders impose on the countries they control an economic model which has been repeatedly demonstrated not to work, which takes those countries out of the international economy to a large extent, and impoverishes all of their people. This isn't just a theory, it's been proven over and over again.
>>Robertson, is acknowledged as a leader in this country. Yet is diatribe has NO BASIS in fact, nor reality!! <<
He has no elective or appointive official position. He's just a loony with a TV show.
>>So, HE IS "the problem." And he should be discussed as a symptom of a larger disease, namely maladept US foreign policy.<<
Which he has no role in setting, and which does not advocate or practice assassination and hasn't in 30 years.
>>Either you speak the truth and you speak from the gut or soul, based on intelligence and knowledge, perhaps with a few harsh words...OR, you "try to convince others that you are right. Even though, YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I, that your position and those like you WILL NOT CHANGE.<<
When my position is based on accurate information and demonstrated truths and it is opposed by people like you who deny reality and are basically engaged in propagandizing, I don't see a need for it to change. Prove that ANY of the things I said about Chavez in the original post are untrue and I'll consider your position. But you can't - you're forced to just ignore them because they don't support your positive spin on Chavez.
Dave
71 - RogerMDillion
AG, because he's for the redistribution of wealth.
He's willing to reward business failures and stand in the way of honest, hard-working Americans to make something of themselves.
Read his comments here and on other posts.
"Corporations will do something potentially more constructive with that money."
He's an elitist who thinks people in power that have failed need a helping hand from our paychecks. He can sell that stuff to his friends in the Kremlin, but not in America.
72 - Anthony Grande
"Corporations will do something potentially more constructive with that money."
Yeah like create new jobs!!!
I read his comments and he don't look like a communist to me.
That [edited] Revilla sounds more communist to me.
73 - RogerMDillion
The new company that rises in its place will create jobs, too. That's capitalism. Not the corporate socialism that you and Markist seem to stand behind. Why are you in favor of rewarding the failed elites over hard-working, successful Americans?
74 - Anthony Grande
Corporations will do something smart and constructive with that money. It is better in the long run. If we give that to the "Successful" it woun't do no good. If we allow corporations to fail and close thousands of people will lose their jobs.
I thought liberalism stands for "opportunity". Now if they allow thousands of people to loose their jobs that would make that statement false.
75 - RogerMDillion
"Corporations will do something smart and constructive with that money."
Yeah, that's what they told their investors the first time they received money, so why do they need a government bailout?
If you allow corporations to fail, then market forces will cause new ones to start up, creating new jobs.
It's amazing that you think Robertson is a great guy for calling for the death of a communist like Chavez, yet you mirror similar ideas as Chavez with your acceptance of redistribution of wealth to the failed business elites.
I think the fumes from your tie-dye are rotting your brain, comrade.