Why I filed the FEC complaint against the DailyKos.
Today I filed an Federal Election Commission (FEC) complaint against Kos Media, LLC., better known as DailyKos.com. I allege that they operate as a political committee and are therefore subject to FEC rules.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - gonzo marx
geeez...here yas go again, messing John up with silly shit...
like Facts...
or Logic.
ya know ya missed me, John
{8^P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excelsior?
27 - PhilM
Why don't you pack your bags and move to China; you'll fit right in -- probably get a government job to boot.
28 - SanFranciscoJim
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press..."
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
29 - IgnatiusReilly
Thanks for wasting our tax dollars.
30 - Dave Nalle
Look, people are going to keep challenging these highly partisan sites infront of the FEC and probably eventually the FCC too. I don't think that's a problem, so long as everyone gets a fair hearing.
IMO JB could have picked a better target if he really wanted to make a splash. For example, Democratic Underground has real ties to political groups which could probably be researched and documented and used against it. That might be more productive.
Hate-filled though it is, DailyKos is still just some bozos who happen to be pro-democrat spouting their personal opinions on their own dime.
Dave
31 - Michelle K.
It's bad enough that conservative talk show hosts are under attack from the politicians on Capitol Hill, but for a WRITER to file a complaint against the Daily Kos regarding a FREE SPEECH issue seems to me to be absurd.
Don't worry so much -- if the Dems get their way we won't have to worry about the 1st Amendment anymore as NO-ONE will have a voice -- except maybe those that tow the government line (no matter who is in power).
Why in the world would you want to introduce government control over the blogosphere/internet? While I totally dislike what they preach at DailyKos (it downright makes me ill frankly), I would never dream of trying to take them down this way... Their socialist(/communist) ideology will eventually do that by itself.
Oh, and if by some evil miracle Hillary does get elected you won't have to worry about political speech on the internet because she has a plan for that -- to allow government censorship of all of it! (And I might add, a stunt like this will get the Dems even more riled up about the Anti-Free Speech Fairness Doctrine)
Way to go, sir... PLEASE leave DailyKos alone, and please consider withdrawing your complaint -- for the good of ALL of us! You have to know this will come back to bite conservatives as well if you go through with it.
32 - John Bambenek
Eventually, after saying that they are a blog whose primary purpose is to get Democrats elected, you have to take them at their word... that they are a political committee. There is nothing illogical about that.
33 - Adam B.
Except that it's not part of the inquiry, John. Read the Fired Up opinion again: the FEC looked at what the site did, and not its "stated purpose". An examination of Fired Up’s websites reveals that a primary function of the websites is ...
As FEC commissioner Ellen Weintraub told Salon.com two years ago, "People like Red State [a prominent conservative blog] or Kos clearly fall under the media exemption ... Practically all bloggers -- I can't think of one who wouldn't -- would fall under the media exemption or the volunteer. And that's if we do nothing, if we don't change the rules at all."
34 - Les Slater
John,
I totally defend the right of DailyKos to advocate the election of candidates and platform of the Democratic Party. It is the threat of the FEC hanging over such entities that we should oppose.
The FEC has never solved the problem of corporate influence over the electoral process and never will. The big corporations and the very wealthy run this country and politically do it through BOTH major parties.
You playing the dupe for one side of this charade is not only reactionary but indicates you really don't have a clue.
Les
35 - CDO
So explain hwhy FOX news should be treated differently that DailyKos? Everything you describe that Kos does, so does FOX. Treat them the same is all I demand.
36 - James Robertson
I don't even care what the FEC rules are. What I'd ask you to do is this: read the first amendment, paying particular attention to the word "no".
Repeat as often as necessary until comprehension arrives.
37 - DRew
What a tool. Where on the Kos website does it say its main objective is to elect Democrats. Its a political website for Progressives and liberals who of course will want to elect Democrats for the most part. All you are is a partisan nitwit wanting to make noise against a website you don't like. If you are really concerned, why not go after RedState/Townhall etc. that campaign exclusively for republicans? And the website allows anyone to post. Its hate filled to the degree that any other website that allows open comments is. However, the website itself has advocated for moderate Democrats such as Jim Webb, Joe Sestak, and Patrick Murphy, all distinguished veterans who support gun owners and are hardly socialists.
38 - Dasher
Since this is the case, how did McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform act pass? Or most any other campaign finance law, most of which restrict free speech.
39 - Jeffersonian
This is a terrible idea, but one that I see some merit in. The problem isn't that Kos should or shouldn't be covered by the law/regulations in question, it's that the law/regulations exist at all. By subjecting Kos to the threat of FEC regulation of his blog, he gets to experience the joys of speech regulation up close and personal, thus potentially creating another convert for overturning the law that he once cheered for.
As Grant said, the best way to get rid of a bad law is to rigorously enforce it.
40 - A.W.
I don't like... no scratch that... I dispise Daily Kos and their band of loonies. But the fact that they fit into these regulations is further proof that McCain-Feingold was a bad, bad idea. I say this. Sunlight, not control. That is, only regulate to require full disclosure of things like where you are getting the money, and so on. But don't make any attempt to control any form of speech or press.
But while we are at it, could we call CBS an organization designed to influence elections, too?
41 - Les Slater
We all really have to back away from knee-jerk taking sides with one side or the other. They are both a gang of thugs who do not represent our interest.
42 - Stephen
I think this filing is a great move. Our legal system is built on precedent. When his complaint is slapped down, bloggers will have an extra precedent on their side if a legitimate challenge ever comes up.
43 - Jeffersonian
Since this is the case, how did McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform act pass? Or most any other campaign finance law, most of which restrict free speech.
Welcome to the real world. Not only did M-F pass, but Bush signed it and the USSC rubber-stamped it (thanks, "liberals!!"). Only recently did the Court strip off some of the more onerous provisions (preventing issue ads within 30/60 days of a primary/general election).
44 - Krempasky
John,
As a political matter, I can appreciate the appeal for attention that this "complaint" represents. As a political matter, I can appreciate throwing stones at the other side.
But this is just plain stupid. Keep arguing with Adam, you'll find it informative - and if you don't let what he's telling you sink in, you'll find your time with the FEC frustrating and embarassing.
If you believe in free speech (as I believe you do), then hang this crap up. It doesn't help anyone. At all.
45 - urmakesillyz
Um, dude, have you ever heard the term "weird old crank?" We get stuff from nuts like you in DC all the time. We mostly giggle at them and show them to the interns (who giggle too).
46 - odum
Good god, Bambenek. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I suppose I should be intimidated out of my own blogging now, eh?
47 - apetrelli
Those referring to the Fired-Up advisory opinion or the FEC hearings and ensuing exemption are wrong.
This complaint is based on DailyKos' efforts at organizing voters, and raising money to further organize voters, for the expressed purpose of electing Democrats. This is not speech, it is clearly the actions and incidents of a political committee. There are clear grounds distinguishing this from both the advisory opinion and the exemption.
Watch DailyKos over the next few days (or at most, weeks) strip all references to 'electing Democrats' as they attempt to rewrite history. DailyKos is as DailyKos does.
48 - Captain USA
You are un-American. Emigrate to North Korea.
49 - Hesiod
John,
It really doesn't matter what Kos and his editors state is the express purpose of Daily Kos. Even if they are saying it is to elect Democrats to office (except for Joe Lieberman -- that kinda blows your argument out of the water, doesn't it?)...the site itself does not always agree.
You cited the example of Cindy Sheehan. Well, even though she might have been opposed by a lot of people on Kos for her criticism of Nancy Pelosi, she was still able to post a diary and have her say. And a minority of people agreed with her, even if it was not Markos.
Now, compare that to a truly party-run or campaign run website or blog, where dissent is quickly quashed, and off-message commenatary is never expressed.
Daily Kos, despite what Markos may say, is really a free for all debating society where a decent specturm of opinions from the center to the far left are expressed daily.
So, even if the FEC had not alreayd rejected your arguments, your point about Daily Kos being distinguishable from FiredUp is not even true on the merits.
Finally, many of your attacks on Daily Kos are actually more apt to be levelled at people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean hannity who ARE totally and completely geared toward pushing the Republican party and electing Republicans.
And, unlike Daily Kos, they don't allow contrary opinions to be expressed very ofetm if ever, on tehir programs. The only difefrence is that Limbaugh and Hnannity don't expressly state that they are Republican party proganada organs, even though that is precisely what they are.
In fact, Limbaugh himself as much admitted this after the GOP lost the Congress. IN fact he said, after the GOP lost in 2006, taht he was "free" and no longer had to carry water for the GOP.
Well, based on that admission, he should be regulated up his yazoo just like Kos. Right?
50 - Adam B.
FYI, I've written more about this on DailyKos. Instapundit and the folks at The Corner and RedState aren't looking kindly on this.
51 - John
Is BlogCritics now becoming a political organization by this post?
52 - scarshapedstar
Wow, censorship and a junk lawsuit rolled into one. Hooray for small government conservatism!
53 - John
The author of this post has run for political office. Is he now using this platform that reaches potential voters to raise his profile for another run? If so, is this site now in the purview of the FEC?
54 - x
I see your argument, but you're still completely wrong on this one, so enjoy having the shortest-lived FEC complaint ever.
55 - Leslie Bohn
Apetrelli:
These things are explicitly allowed under FEC rules. The ruling they made in March 06 explicitly, specifically allows exactly the things you "accuse" DailyKos of doing.
Please read the ruling cited several times above.
56 - KB
I haven't waded into the law and opinions of the FEC, but I hardly think that they would fail to examine the totality of the website in question, rather than rely on a few scattered sentences favorable to Democrats.
I'm looking at the recommended diary list over there now, and I'm seeing diaries about health care, congress, economics, Michael Moore (who is not running for election by the way), etc.
So if the Daily Kos's only purpose is getting Democrats elected, then why are all those other topics posted? If memory serves, I also recall some advocating for the election of independents (apparently Cindy Sheehan just wasn't a good enough independent), which would never had happened if the website was soley directed toward electing Dermocrats.
So there's my 30 seconds on this topic. Let me know how it all works out for you John.
57 - Dave Nalle
I see this got promoted to the DailyKos based on the sudden decline in the levels of both politeness and literacy of the comments.
In John's defense, I don't see how his complaint is an effort to silence DailyKos. Even if he were successful - which seems unlikely - all it would mean is that full disclosure and registration as a PAC would be required. It wouldn't stop anything DailyKos is actually doing.
Dave
58 - Neurocat
When you decide to take the same action against Fox News, I'll take it seriously. For now, this is just another partisan attack against speech you don't like.
59 - Scott
What surprises me is that, should John lose this complaint, he'll be open to a counter-suit for legal fees and other damages. It seems to me that the DailyKos folks don't particularly want this fight (Adam B at least is bending over backwards to be reasonable), but from a strategic viewpoint they'll have to counter-sue just to deter imitators.
Now if John had a reasonable chance of winning the complaint it might be worth the risk, but given that his argument relies on the commissioners make a razor-thin judgment that they've rejected previously, the odds don't look good. I suspect that John isn't a lawyer and didn't consult one before filing this complaint.
60 - MasonMcD
Let's take your argument to it's logical extreme: what if I have a blog with one post that says "Vote for Sen. Smith!" What if I have ten posts like that? What if I have a paypal link?
That would be my exclusive (an inclusive, for that matter) content.
SHUT ME DOWN! SHUT ME DOWN!
I don't see how "expressed purpose" holds any water even if it were true.
61 - Innocent Bystander
Why do all of the demands for government censorship seem to be coming from the Right today? In the marketplace of ideas, why do you look for government to suppress information you don't agree with? I could care less if you and people at Townhall, RedState, FreeRepublic want to support an organized crime syndicate that pretends to be a political party. That's your right. The fact that a growing majority of Americans disagree with you should not be cause to react like a totalitarian and look for government to enforce your thinking.
62 - Brendan
So if DailyKos restated on all pages of their website that their purpose is to "present news and let you decide" or so other silly PR slogan, then JB's complaint would be addressed.
Sounds patently silly to me.
63 - Dave V
John B.
What is your purpose in filing the complaint. Clearly there are progressive and conservative blogs that are advocating for the election of the candidates they support whether or not they have stated that is their purpose. They are debating the issues and providing links to candidates. Then the participants in that blog make decisions (as I do) whether to support that candidate or cause (click the link) or not. Indeed, trolls on both sides will respond by supporting their opponent in some cases (as I have done as well).
Even if you truly believe in your argument, what could be more democratic and open than that? What could be more like the founders intended as free speech than that?
Food for thought?
64 - John
someone wrote:
"In John's defense, I don't see how his complaint is an effort to silence DailyKos. Even if he were successful - which seems unlikely - all it would mean is that full disclosure and registration as a PAC would be required. It wouldn't stop anything DailyKos is actually doing."
fair points. But, I think the author is ignoring form over substance The author can't seriously believe that the Rush Limbaugh program doesn't exist to elect conservatives? Same for Sean Hannity. The author focuses in on the expressed statements. So, if Kos wrote a disclaimer or simply took down those statements, yet kept up the same actions, would the author agree then that there wasn't FEC jurisidiction? Because that's the only difference between what Kos is doing and what Hannity, Malkin, et al are doing. And, yet I don't see an FEC complaint against those entities?
65 - Dave Nalle
What surprises me is that, should John lose this complaint, he'll be open to a counter-suit for legal fees and other damages.
Scott, keep in mind that this is not a 'suit', it's a complaint filed with a government agency. I'm not sure there's a way to countersue as such, though I guess they could file a civil suit against him for harassment.
I suspect that John isn't a lawyer and didn't consult one before filing this complaint.
It's America. Everyone has the right to be offended.
Dave
66 - KYJurisDoctor
This complaint is at the heart of all blogging. I believe, though, that Kos may be alright with the FEC.
67 - Bruce Menin
I was going to make a comment about the apparent superficiality of your arguments, and the willful ignorance you seem to be displaying regarding the application of established policy regarding the exact questions you are raising, when I was distracted by the Google advert on your site for Dennis Kucinich for President. You or your site wouldn't by any chance be deriving any sort of income from that advert, would you? Or perhaps giving us all a little wink about your political inclinations re: the dem primaries? Just wondering.
68 - Dave Nalle
And, yet I don't see an FEC complaint against those entities?
From what I can see, democrat groups have filed FEC complaints against just about everyone on earth, but they do seem to grasp the fact that even talk radio is part of the news media.
Dave
69 - Feiba Peveli
Go ahead, John. Spend all the time, money, and mental capacity you like on this. Lost cause, but I guess it is a good publicity stunt. Despite the idiocy of your argument, bad press is at least press. How many folks would have never heard of your blog without this feeble attempt? You'll get the DailyKos and O'Reilly bunch to take a look.
70 - JB
You are "an academic professional for the University of Illinois."?
What kind of professional does not even know that this was looked at by FEC as recently as last year.
It should read, "a right wing academic professional for the University of Illinois; but not a very good one"
71 - Dave Nalle
Bruce, it's a non-partisan site. The google ad bot picked up on words in the article and decided that the Kucinich ad made sense. The google ad bot isn't always terribly discriminating.
Dave
72 - looking italian
"I see this got promoted to the DailyKos based on the sudden decline in the levels of both politeness and literacy of the comments."
Seems fair, since Bambanek apparently can't read FEC regulations.
The thoroughness of the research supporting this complaint is apparent in the second sentence, in which Bamabanek misspells the name of the principal person associated with the respondent.
Oh, did Bambanek happen to look at 11 CFR 111.21(a)?
73 - bobcat_grad
Dave Nalle:
Your condescending tone and self rightous attitude reveals makes you much better than all of the 'hate-filled speech' at Dkos, right?
Watch Bill O, much, do you?
John - I believe this complaint will be dismissed rather quickly. Granted, the blogosphere is relatively 'new' in the political world, and it will take some time to shake out the parameters around it. But it seems the FEC has spoken on this previlously.
74 - Literate User
Dave Nalle,
Speaking of literacy, why don't you look up the proper form for the Democratic Party (i.e. Democratic vs. Democrat), when used as an adjective -- the results may surprise you!
75 - Ex-Dem
I have been a daily and avid reader of the political blogs for a few years.
I think it is plainly obvious that several blogs, if not on the payroll directly, are being coordinated by "the Party".
Many readers just see DailyKos as tool firmly in the grip of the Party. Its nothing but PR and guerilla marketing and fundraising.