Source: CNN Quick News
As you all know, the British police shot and killed a person in the Subway they thought was a terrorist. Turns out this person was innocent and in no way connected to the terrorist bombing. England has a policy that it is to shoot to kill if any suspect is believed to be a terrorist.
Gee, all you have to is look like a third worlder and have a thick coat on and BAMM! your one dead mudder pucker! Charles de Menezes is now dead.
I am a little torn on this policy. As for me, I'm very very very white, so this does not represent a danger to myself, but to someone like my own son who has some hispanic color, it worries me severely.
There are a lot of unanswered questions. Did the police who gunned down this individual lie about his actions in order to cover their own butts?
The Brazilian populace is calling the British racists. Are they right? Our own racism problem here in the states in the past were spearheaded by one whom were once were descendents of Britain.
Are the British racists?
South Africa was subjected to severe racism from the descendants of Britain and still is for the most part.
I don't know who is wrong or right. What I do know, is that another innocent has been murdered at the hands of law inforcercement officers.
Is this open season on any person of color that acts suspicous in the minds of the law enforcers?
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - dietdoc
Mojoala writes: "South Africa was subjected to severe racism from the descendants of Britain and still is for the most part."
Reply: According to the online World Book Encyclopedia on South Africa:
About 60 percent of the white population call themselves Afrikaners. Their ancestors came chiefly from the Netherlands in the late 1600's, though some came from Germany and France. Until the 1900's, most Afrikaners lived on farms and were known as Boers. Boer is a Dutch word that means farmer. Today, most Afrikaners live in cities, but they still make up most of the white population in rural areas. English-speaking whites account for about 40 percent of the white population. Their ancestors came chiefly from England, Ireland, and Scotland beginning in the early 1800's.
2 - mojoala
and the point is?
Up until they released Nelson Mandela, South Africa was ruled and controlled by the British Isles descendants. They oppressed all others.
3 - Jared
The kicker for me is that he was told to stop, understood English, and refused to do so. If law enforcement is expected to enforce the law, they need the cooperation of law-abiding citizens. If he'd have stopped as he was asked, the situation wouldn't have resulted in him being suspected of terrorism. No, he did nothing to warrant being shot to death, but if the police had hesitated and he'd have been carrying explosives in that heavily padded coat, there'd be ten times as much criticism being fired at the London law enforcement for not having done anything. I'm sorry it happened, but this wasn't a situation where someone of a different race or what have you was randomly picked and gunned down for the humor of British police.
4 - Aaman
told to stop by plainclothes people chasing a guy who'd been mugged recently - why would he, or you, stop in such a case, just after a terrorist attack, too.
5 - John
I find this an extremely ironic statement given that you come from a country known for its heavy handed, bull-in-a-china-shop approach to anything and everything. What's left of subtlety in America lies quivering under a rock, stuck in a oversized truck tire tread. Context aside, your argument is based on a small number of half-truths about the incident. First of all this guy was a suspect under survelliance by the Police. He left his house and got onto a bus. At that point back-up was called - logical as he's on a bus with a large number of people on it. He was then seen leaving the bus and going onto the Underground. At that point, it was necessary to stop him as this posed a threat. When confronted by police he ran(?), jumped over the ticket barriers, down the escalator and on to the platform, then on to a train.
This guy was wearing a winter coat, yes, on a hot and humid day on an underground system which is like a sauna. The guy didn't stop, he's a suspect, over the past two weeks he knew major incidents have occured on the tube, he's in a tube station running desperately for a train...if this guy was trying to protect himself he's done it in the most irrational way possible. To anyone it would seem obvious that this guy had something to hide and a desperate need to get on a train - which are the hallmarks of someone operating with an agenda and above the law. This guy also knew English.
I genuinely believe that the Police act to protect the public and do not get up in the morning wanting to shoot anyone (At least its not the culture in this country)
>Are the British racists?
No.
P.s. Don't blame your country's problems on Genetics.
6 - mojoala
I don't support our countries heavy handed, bull-in-a-china-shop tactics.
Wearing a heavy coat: He could have been sick with high fever.
Running to train: He could of been doing an O.J. Simpson because he was running late.
He could of had all legit reasons to be what he was doing.
If a group of men started brandishing firearms at me and were not wearing any uniforms, I most certainly run too until which time I could hand myself over to uniformed police officers.
So do we just go on shooting people who have dark skin, wearing a heavy coat and will not stop when a unmarked law official says so?
7 - mojoala
you tell em aaman!
8 - mojoala
Alistair Cooke in his BBC Letter from America, May 2, 1997 said with reference to Tiger Woods' first Golf Masters win:
"there'll be a spectacular increase in the number of black boys (and I do mean boys - teenagers) who begin to infest the public courses in America ?"
take it how you will....
9 - John
So, if you were a police officer and you suspected someone these are the arguments that would take place in your mind:
1. Known suspect enters tube station with large coat.
--Thought: He probably has a fever or likes wearing hot coats in very hot weather. We'll stop him just in case.
2. Asks suspect to stop
Doesn't stop, jumps over the ticket barrier.
--Assume is late for a meeting or has to get somewhere
Call for back-up of uniformed police to arrest him for not stopping.
Meanwhile the guy jumps on a packed train and blows himself up killing members of the public.
Your argument: Had to wait as the guy may have had a fever and was probably late for a meeting and you cant arrest someone without being in a uniform.
>Wearing a heavy coat: He could have been sick with high fever.
Then he shouldn't be out at all, let alone have the energy to run.
>Running to train: He could of been doing an O.J. Simpson because he was running late.
Laughable. An individual has to stop when confronted(and reports say they identified themselves) by the authorties or risk endangering their lives. It's a simple choice.
>He could of(have) had all legit reasons to be what he was doing.
Not that I can see from the facts. I'll accept he could have been scared.
>If a group of men started brandishing firearms at me and were not wearing any uniforms, I most certainly run too until which time I could hand myself over to uniformed police officers.
It's illogical to run, if they're gangstars then you're running on to a platform that's effectively a dead-end, and if they are police then they're going to carry out the threat.
>So do we just go on shooting people who have dark skin, wearing a heavy coat and will not stop when a unmarked law official says so?
I'm white and my bag was searched the other day on entering the tube. The investigation does have to take place amongst those ethnic communities because it's a simple fact that most muslims are asian by decent in Britian.
The authorities will conduct investigations based on as much intelligence as there is available, and this mis-takes aren't acts of racism it's totally ignorant of you to suggest they acts of racial hatred. This is obviously a horrid event, but for you then to pick holes is very easy and to suggest racism as a basis for the decision made is, well, obsurd.
10 - John
RE: Cooke:
You can't judge a nation based on an individual..if you do then you become a racist by definition.
11 - Dave
Alistair Cooke quote -- this is relevant, how?
Yes, if the situation appears to be another 'splodeydope about to blow up the subway, 5 to the skull every time.12 - Dave
The blame goes to the terrorists, not the cops.
13 - todd
Look... if the cops were undercover, and whipped out guns, then it stands to reason that it is likely he thot he was being attacked by thugs...
The last thing this world needs is more people justifying the right of police to shoot people any time they feel like it...
In my home town, a college town, a very very drunk college student was killed a few years back because he "lunged" at a policeman.
Now... no mention of a gun, or knive... he merely "lunged"!
The Officer who shot the poor kid was HUGE, over 6ft and built like a football player and evidently was so threatened by a drunk college student that he shot and killed him.
I doubt the "lunge" defense would work for any of us.
My experience is that the bullies in my high school went on to become the cops in my home town.
My point is, if the police can get away with killing a white college kid in a college town, what do you think they can get away with in the ghetto?
If you cannot handle a drunken college kid without shooting him, you need to be in another line of work.
So what does that have to do with London? Obviously, this kid thot he was going to get jumped and he did the natural, the responsible thing. He didn't wait to to see if these normally dressed people were officials, he ran!
Just like anyone else here would do, if he had any balls.
I have black friends who have been called nigger by cops, been cussed at, seen a white friend tasered and beaten with a billy club, just because they could. (they didn't even charge my friend and let him go a few hours later, after threatening to take him out in the woods and torture him)
I just don't like cops!
14 - Dave
15 - Tan The Man
Poor guy. There were innocent people lost before Charles de Menezes, and unfortunately there will probably many more. It's a tough world we live in.
16 - mojoala
Yes murder?
Murder is death by any mean other than suicide or judicial homicide.
And since Britain did away with Capital Punishment(Judicial Homocide) in the 69' I believe and since his death was not by his own hand, then it is Murder.
Yes more innocents will die, that goes without saying.
17 - mojoala
You can't judge a nation based on an individual..if you do then you become a racist by definition.
Sir Alistair Cooke: When a significant such as Cooke makes a statement, he by his title is speaking on behalf of his country.
I am sure I can find other racial slurs from other prominate Brits if I search hard enough, but I will not.
18 - Nancy
Muggers don't generally call on you to 'stop'. They also don't chase you yelling 'stop! Police!', as the W.P. reports stated these guys did. Common sense dictated he stop. Since he was too stupid to do so, he got himself killed. Good thing he removed himself from the gene pool, then. No sympathy here.
19 - bhw
If the police believed he was carrying a bomb, wouldn't they still have shot him in the head if he stopped for them right away?
20 - mojoala
Yes that is their policy.
Is it a good policy based on suspicion?
I would hope a policy would be based on knowing, not believing or suspecting.
All one has to claim after killing someone is that they suspected someone of carrying a bomb....
21 - mojoala
A declaration that you are a policeman does constitute fact that you are a policeman.
Muggers have been known to use that declaration to dupe thier victims.
22 - valery dawe
Of course the Brits are racist. They didn't colonize large areas of the planet and subjugate whole populations in order to demonstrate a belief in equality or human rights. A few years ago the Queen of England visited North America and proudly spoke of "500 years of European history" on that continent. Which in reality has been centuries of oppression for its original inhabitants. She probably didn't write the speech but she didn't have to show such callous ignorance by agreeing to read it. If Britain's head of state can display such unabashed racism it's not suprising that British cops, judges, Members of Parliament and the general white public are on the same level.
23 - bhw
Not to mention that these cops didn't even do basic homework. They didn't know how many apartments were in the building they were watching, so they assumed everyone who lived in the building lived together.
So somehow the shooting victim is the stupid one here. Love that.
24 - mojoala
I'll second that!
25 - mojoala
good point valere!