Hmm. Did I miss any of the Rabid Right's accusations?
Boy, oh boy! This is more fun than poking a stick into an anthill! Obama's got the right idea, instead of using the carrot-and-stick method to lead the conservatives along with the rest of America by nominating Judge Sotomayor as the next Supreme Court Justice, he simply gave the conservatives the carrot and the stick, apparently with the full knowledge that the conservatives would throw the carrot away because they think it's poisoned and would proceed to beat themselves to death with the stick, all the while accusing the liberals of doing it to them!…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - roger nowosielski
Zing, to amplify your point, you've got to read Horace Mungin's "The Phantom Culprit," both on BC and my own website (last entry) which I reproduced there.
It's a chuck full of examples of how the racist policies in the South were instrumental in the poor white's switching the party and voting against their own best interests.
27 - Arch Conservative
Gee Glenn I'm sure you were just as upset when the libs in Conress just a few short years ago tried to portray Alito as a racist, failed, and then mostly voted against him right?
The fact is that the GOP is doing exactly what the Dems did to Bork, Alito, Thomad, and Roberts.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
28 - Cannonshop
Does anyone know what her record of rulings looks like? I personally could care less about her politics, or her ethnicity, or even her gender, than about HOW she rules, what she writes in her rulings, and what her in-practice judicial inclinations are.
Seriously, folks, I haven't seen any sources talking about Sotomayer's record on the bench, it's just the left gushing about her skin colour and the right ranting about her political stances.
It's a Judicial Appointment, not a glamour-contest like the Presidency has become.
29 - Arch Conservative
Well one thing we know is that 60% of the decisions that Sotomayor has ruled on that have gone onto the Supreme Court have been overturned.
30 - Dan(Miller)
Re comments #28 and 29, by Cannonshop and Arch:
Please see my comment #1 here about the "60% argument;" that argument is meaningless, as persuasively demonstrated by the linked article.
My article to which I appended comment #1 deals with some of the Second Circuit decisions of concern in which Judge Sotomayor participated. Please see also my article here, dealing with other Second Circuit decisions in which she participated.
As explained elsewhere, I hate to see my brother conservatives making arguments which lack any sound basis. This is what the conservative author of the article linked in my comment #1, above, said about the 60% argument:
unless there is more to the story, conservatives should stop citing the 60 percent figure as evidence of any lack of competence on Sotomayor's part.
Throwing mud indiscriminately and reflexively against the wall in the hope that some of it may stick does little good and merely gets the hands of the thrower dirty. If we have something worth throwing, we should by all means throw it. Otherwise, we should not emulate those who did that in opposing Republican nominees. That merely justifies their unseemly actions.
Dan(Miller)
31 - Arch Conservative
Well Dan, my whole take on the thing is that, in politics, as with pretty much everything in life, one must pick one's battles carefully.
In the grand scheme of things this is not a battle the GOP should even attempt to fight and waste political capital on.
They should focus more on the radical left's attempt, led by King Barry, to ruin this nation by spending it into oblivion.
32 - Cannonshop
#31 An effort begun under WHOSE administration?
(Drumrollllllll)
George...W....Bush.
33 - Clavos
Cannon #31,
True, but Obama's contributions in that arena make Bush's spending pale by comparison.
There's another point, also: When Bush was doing his spending, the nation was not in a severe recession (and, before you jump, I'll stipulate to the probability that Bush's spending helped bring on same), while Obama is spending during a recession, with the certain outcome of not only plunging the nation into a staggering level of debt, but also with the near certainty of bringing on severe inflation (because, to finance his spending he must print more money, and has already begun to do so).
34 - Dave Nalle
Zing, where did I say that minorities are stupid? That's your interpretation, not mine. I said that minorities are misled. That's not at all the same thing. Being fooled by people who have lied to you for generations and bribe you with things you think you want is being humanly gullible and perhaps somewhat greedy, not stupid. Many other groups are just as vulnerable to the politics of division and hate which the Democrats use, particularly working class white folks. It has nothing to do with race or stupidity and everything to do with exploitation and deception.
When one party comes to you and says "we will do X, Y and Z" for you and the other party comes to you and says "we won't stand in the way of you doing stuff for yourself" it's not surprising that a lot of people find the first message more appealing, even if they really shouldn't. Even moreso when the media and your own community leaders are helping to market the first party's message and denigrate the second party.
Dave
35 - zingzing
so you figured it all out for them, right dave? they're "gullible" and "greedy?" and you're not? well, i'm glad you're bright enough to vote for the good ol' gop. "misled" is a pretty funny word. could mean "too dumb to know better," if you put "easily" on the front of it. and obviously, with over half of the country voting dem, that's pretty easy to say in america.
you, and many other republicans constantly posit that the dems are racists and that minorities are being racially manipulated. yet, they vote in droves to be manipulated? why, dave? oh, it's gullibility and greed. sounds exactly like what i said... maybe even worse. you even know all the reasons for their stupidity.
and if your first sentence of your first paragraph is your idea of politics, then you've got horrible tunnel vision. there's so much more to it than that. and people care about that stuff as well as your precious taxes.
and it's not just the media and community leaders that denigrate the republican party, it's pretty much the rest of the world as well. forgot about them, right?
realize what i'm saying to you. i'm not saying you think minorities are dumb. i'm saying that you are wrong about dems. the dems subscribed to a different political philosophy than you do, and lots of america (and a large chunk of the rest of the world) agrees with that philosophy. you can think we're all dumb if you want to, but it doesn't make you look any better.
36 - Clavos
the dems subscribed to a different political philosophy than you do, and lots of america (and a large chunk of the rest of the world) agrees with that philosophy.
Depnds on how one defines "large chunk." In this instance it empirically means about one in 4 (25%) of registered voters, according to the November 2008 election results.
According to Pew Research:
In more than 7,000 interviews conducted in the first four months of 2009, 37% of Americans describe themselves as politically conservative " roughly double the number who say they are liberal (19%). This ratio has remained largely stable over the past nine years, even while the balance of party affiliation has changed substantially.
37 - zingzing
"large chunk" referred to the "rest of the world," not america, but i guess that it must be said that the rest of the world is even more left than the american democratic party. but at least we're leaning in that direction, at least as compared to the republicans, the right wing, etc.
the right wing of american politics is very, very far right compared to a majority of the voting public, worldwide. that's why the world celebrated so much when bush left office (and obama entered).
38 - Clavos
"large chunk" referred to the "rest of the world," not america...
OK.
Since "the rest of the world" does not vote in our elections, where they stand on the political spectrum is of only marginal importance to the question at hand.
You also said,
lots of america (and a large chunk of the rest of the world) agrees with that philosophy.
Of course, "lots of america" is not an empirical measure, but a ratio of 2 to 1 among respondents to the poll self identifying as conservative vs liberal -- hardly qualifies as "lots of america."
39 - Arch Conservative
The world celebrated because Obama is good for them not good for America.
40 - zingzing
clavos, you and i both know who won the last elections. i'd say it's a good bet that "a good chunk," meaning more than 25% of the voters, voted dem. are you bringing up some sort of "silent majority?"
you're right, the question at hand was about minority voting patterns in the united states. but, i also pointed out to dave that he disagrees with the political philosophy that minorities subscribe to. that philosophy that dave disagrees with is to the left of himself. and so i went on to make a point that a "large chunk" of this world disagrees with him on that level. by extension, one might figure out that i'm saying a lot of the world takes a dim view of him. but i didn't think it needed to be so explicit.
archie, you must have figured out that i actually care about the rest of the world, rather than wanting to bomb it. of course an american president who isn't going to gung-ho fuck up your country on a whim is a good thing. i think the world gave us a big pat on the back and said, "wow, you aren't as dumb as you seem."
41 - zingzing
good chunk, large chunk, whatever.
42 - Clavos
OK, zing, my figure is based on the percentage of all Americans who voted for Obama:
In 2008, the total US population was estimated at 307.2M Americans, which means that Obama got 22.6% of Americans to vote for him.
Here, with source links, are hard numbers, rounded to the nearest 100K:
In the 2008 election, Obama got 69.5M votes.
In November 2008, there were 212.7M eligible voters.
And 184.7M registered voters.
Which means that Obama got only 32.7% of the eligible voters and 37.6% of the registered voters.
Either way, not a "large chunk" of the voters.
43 - SJ
Glenn, it's clear that when you use the term "tar baby" that you are not using it in a racist way, but in the way that is described in the fairy tale with the Br'er patch and the rabbit, fox and bear. That being said, I would just as soon not see that phrase used anymore, especially in political discussions.
The phrase also is frequently used as a racial slur.
44 - roger nowosielski
Explanation from Toni Morrison's novel:
"Tar Baby is also a name [...] that white people call black children, black girls, as I recall.
At one time, a tar pit was a holy place, at least an important place, because tar was used to build things.
It held together things like Moses' little boat and the pyramids.
For me, the tar baby came to mean the black woman who can hold things together."
45 - roger nowosielski
SJ,
I think Glenn's use here was idiomatic; and very poignant, I should say, given the context. It makes the point that ought to be made.
46 - Glenn Contrarian
SJ -
Okay, point taken - I think the use of 'tar baby' was not truly inappropriate...but you are right. Using a term that can easily be seen as racist (just like 'uppity'), no matter how appropriate for the subject at hand, does cast the writer in an unfavorable light, and rightfully so.
I will not make this mistake again, and thank you.
47 - Glenn Contrarian
Arch -
The world celebrated because Obama is good for them not good for America.
I know this is a bitter pill for you to swallow...but what is good for all the world IS good for America. There's an old Chinese saying: "A rising tide floats all boats."
48 - Clavos
As an expert on boats, I'm compelled to note that the expression is "A rising tide lifts all boats (all tides float all boats).
As a half Irishman, I'm also compelled to note that, as so many of the best sayings in the English language are, this one is attributed to a pair of Irishmen: Seán Lemass, the Irish Taoiseach (Prime Minister) in 1959"1966.[1] [2] Lemass himself attributed the phrase to John F. Kennedy.
49 - zingzing
clavos: "Either way, not a "large chunk" of the voters."
you forget that out of the people that ACTUALLY VOTE, he got enough to win in a landslide. you can bring up all the eligible voters (old people who can't walk, drunken bums living in subway tunnels, 18-year-olds who don't know what a chad is, people who live on boats in the gulf of mexico, invalids who have no idea what year it is, insane people without fingernails, people who work on tuesdays) you want, but a majority of people who ACTUALLY VOTE voted for obama. so there you go.
50 - zingzing
and remember that even less of your general population voted for your side.
51 - Clavos
Twist it any way you want, it was still not a "large chunk." My point being that those who did vote for him, while a majority of those who voted, were still a minority of Americans.
52 - zingzing
what the fuck, clavos? how else are you going to measure it? how do those who don't vote vote? it's like you're saying that the 50% of americans who don't vote vote republican or something.
spin it anyway you like, he/we still won by a landslide, and we took over congress as well. what does that say to you?
53 - Clavos
That a majority of Americans didn't vote for him, zing; nothing more.
54 - Clavos
Or alternatively, 69 million people voted for him; 238 million did not.
Winning 53% of the popular vote is hardly a landslide.
List of US landslide election wins.
55 - zingzing
so how do those who don't vote vote?
sure, 238 million people didn't vote for him, but they didn't vote at all. there's something fucked up in your logic. are you purposefully not seeing this? how else do you measure how people vote, other than counting votes?
i understand your point, but you are willfully ignoring mine. maybe you just don't want to admit to yourself that conservatism is on the decline... may you live to see the rest of your generation die, watching as my generation sweeps you under the rug like some hilarious mistake.
bush lost the popular vote, yet still won. obama cleaned up, handily. it was over 2 hours after the polls closed. (well, it was over when the polls closed, but still.)
56 - Clavos
maybe you just don't want to admit to yourself that conservatism is on the decline
"conservatism is on the decline," huh?
From a report published May 21, 2009 by Pew Research:
In more than 7,000 interviews conducted in the first four months of 2009, 37% of Americans describe themselves as politically conservative " roughly double the number who say they are liberal (19%). This ratio has remained largely stable over the past nine years, even while the balance of party affiliation has changed substantially.
Keep whistling past the graveyard, zing.
57 - zingzing
do you find those numbers comforting?
in 50 years, do you think this country will be more liberal than it is now? do you think it's more liberal than it was 50 years ago?
in 50 years, i'll be comparatively conservative compared to the rest of society. and i'm happy about that fact.
58 - Bliffle
"A rising tide lifts all boats (all tides float all boats)."
Except the ones anchored to the bottom, which will sink, drowning all on board.
59 - roger nowosielski
Ain' that the truth.
60 - Clavos
Except the ones anchored to the bottom, which will sink, drowning all on board.
Stick to something you know about, bliff.
All anchored boats "anchor to the bottom."
61 - Bliffle
I dislike analogies, similes and metaphors because they are simply contrived debating tricks. But I don't mind puncturing the obviously flawed ones.
The original point had nothing to do with boats, whether floating or anchored.
As for the reference to "tar baby", my recollection is that the tar baby was something that you couldn't let go of or get rid of: it stuck to you with the adhesive of the tar.
So, do you see how many wrong paths analogies can lead one down?
It's simpler just to address the original point.
62 - Bliffle
And another thing:
"All anchored boats "anchor to the bottom.""
As I recall from a few sailing courses I took many years ago, there is such a thing as a "sea anchor", IIRC, that consists of a sort of shroud that one deploys in deep seas (where one cannot possibly have enough anchor chain to reach bottom) that merely 'anchors' one against the sea to reduce drift caused by wind and current.
63 - Dave Nalle
To continue the side-track I think it's debatable that anchored boats will sink when the tide rises. Boats are very boyant. It's far more likely that the anchor will be pulled loose or that the mount for the anchor will break. Plus anchors chains usually aren't taught and have some extra length played out, so unless the tide is unusually dramatic -- like in a tidal pool or narrow channel it probably wouldn't lift the boat enough to risk sinking it. Consider that boats stay anchored in harbors for days at a time through high and low tides without being sunk.
dave
64 - Clavos
Bingo, Dave. In order to stay anchored (and not "drag" or pull it out), you must put out scope (extra length of anchor line). Under normal circumstances the necessary scope is approximately 5 times the depth of the water. And yes, if you had no scope out, the anchor would pull out long before the boat was pulled under.
65 - Clavos
bliffle,
A boat with a sea anchor deployed is not anchored. The purpose of the sea anchor is merely to keep the boat's bow (or stern, depending on how it's deployed) into the wind and waves in order to avoid broaching. The boat continues to drift with the force of wind ans wave, albeit at a slower pace.
66 - roger nowosielski
Now that we've got the mechanics right, we can use the metaphor to our hearts' delight.
67 - zingzing
that was like watching some OCD guy clean a kitchen. fascinating, yet kind of sad. or maybe the other way around. i mean really... anchors...
68 - Clavos
@67:
It's OK, zing.
As you've repeatedly pointed out in the past, your only real motivation in life is your puerile obsession with pussy.
69 - Cindy
I dislike analogies, similes and metaphors...
Oh well, my heart is broken, in that these are some of my favorite things. Still, the dissection was instructive and I'll have try to never turn my back on a metaphor again.
70 - Cindy
Roger, that is hilarious #66. I think you are a natural at humor.
71 - Jeannie Danna
:)
72 - Jeannie Danna
Cindy, I want to sign into your blog without street address so that I can read your writings is that possible?
73 - Cindy
Hi Jeannie,
We were like two ships passing in the night in the thread yesterday.
I think we should encourage Roger's sense of humor. For some reason, he has been keeping it under wraps. It reminds me of my Italian grandma. She kept her small number of beautiful linens in a hope chest. She never even got to use them.
Anyway, I am out the door into the sunshine. :-)
74 - Jeannie Danna
OK BYE :) scan time
75 - roger nowosielski
Thanks, Cindy. I have my moments.