In what can best be described as political correctness on steroids, the New York City Board of Ed has established a school that focuses on teaching "Arabic language and culture."
I was a product of the NYC BOE, I went to NYC public schools nearly my entire childhood. Back then (a scant 20 years ago), people who wanted to get an education in a particular culture or religion would go to a private parochial school. Yeshiva for Jewish kids, Catholic school, etc. Back then the thinking was clear, there was a concept of separation of church and state. If you wanted an education centered around a religious and cultural ethic, you needed to find that type of study outside of the public(ly funded) school system.
However, things have changed quite a bit in the Big Apple. The very city that was attacked in 1993 and in 2001 by radical Muslims (to the tune of nearly 3000 dead innocent civilians) has in fact created a publicly funded school where everyone can learn about Arabic/Islamic culture. This means that so long as you live somewhere within the 50 states of this great country, you too are paying some small amount of your federal contribution to Islamic study. And if you live somewhere within the five boroughs, then you are paying more than a small amount.
But this is more than just an issue of separation of church and state, and it's bigger than just a budgetary concern. This is an insult to the melting pot society, which for well over a hundred years has defined the great city of New York.
Sure, some poor misguided folk, as featured in the linked article, might feel that attending such a school will broaden horizons and create opportunities. However, the vast majority of those attending will be of Islamic heritage. Just like Hispanic kids tend to take Spanish for the easy A, so will Muslim kids make the decision to attend this public madrassa. Add to that the concerns regarding Muslim assimilation into the American culture, their tendency to seclude themselves from the rest of Americana, and the concerns that such self-segregation is at the heart of local terrorist recruitment, the concept of such a school raises a much more negative specter.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dr Dreadful
While I agree that the New York school system could have found better things to spend taxpayer money on, it's a bit of a leap to call a school teaching Arabic language and culture a madrassa. Unless you can show that the school will be delivering religious instruction to its students, I'm calling this as a knee-jerk reaction.
2 - moonraven
Those schools and programs exist in other places besides New York.
Obviously, they are a good idea, as the current polarization of the planet is almost completely due to the ignorance of the West in regard to Islamic culture.
An ignorance clearly being promulgated by the ignoramus who wrote this piece.
Note: I wouldlike to know just what credentials as a writer and or thinker Obnoxious American waved in front of the eyes of DaveNalle&Co to post this complete drivel. This is not the THIRD outrageously inept opinion piece--complete with a glaring error in the title: SepAration, idiots.
3 - moonraven
NOW the THIRD....
4 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Can you just imagine if the largish Jewish population demanded schools like this for Jews in NYC? Bear in mind that when I attended the public schools in new York City, at the time some of the best in the nation, the Jewish population was over two million people, more even than the population of Israel (then)!!
There would be an uproar of liberal Jews screaming heresy, and non-Jews complaining of Jewish arrogance and contumely - what a geshrei there would be! But you can count on the cowardly and scared shitless American Jews not to demand such a thing for Jews in NYC. Rabbi Meir Kahane is so missed...
5 - Nancy
Clarification on this school: is it something like the German School, or the French School - i.e. magnets that specialize in certain language & cultural studies? or is it in fact a Muslim/Arabic school FOR primarily muslim/arabic students, & will religion be taught there? None of this is mentioned. I have no problem with a school that specializes in Arabic studies (language, cultural aspects, like the two European-centered schools above do) - altho frankly I can't see how one can study Arabic/middle eastern studies without inbibing a hefty dose of religion into the bargain, since Islam permeates the culture & language.
I wish OA had put in a few more facts about exactly what the curriculum is, & fewer opinions.
6 - moonraven
OA wouldn't recognize a fact if it bit him in the ass--nor does he want to recognize any.
7 - The Obnoxious American
Nancy,
Problem is there isn't much detail provided by the NYC BOE regarding the curriculum in this school other than to say Arabic studies. Although as you said, it would be very difficult to separate the religious aspects in this line of study.
Mind you that I would have less of a problem were this a school whose purpose is to focus on a particular language, although I'd have to wonder whether this fell into the role of public high school (this is really something that should be studied in College or post grad).
Moonraven,
Aside from the ad-hominem attacks of my intelligence, you might actually want to make a valid point here (or not, your choice). Note that I am fairly familiar with Islam, and have quite a few Muslim friends. This doesn't mean that our tax dollars should be paying for this type of study, just like I'd feel it was inappropriate for a public high school to teach Judaic studies (I am jewish BTW).
TOA
8 - moonraven
Your intelligence? You've gotta be shitting me.
Your intelligence is not even the issue: the issues are: Your bigotry, your wild use of assumptions (if you know NOTHING about the curriculum, as you clearly have shown, why not just keep yourmouth shut?) and your general lack of writing skills.
Being an asshole doesn't make you a journalist (although sometimes it helps....)
9 - moonraven
Now to the valid point, which I already made so will simply copy and post:
"Those schools and programs exist in other places besides New York.
Obviously, they are a good idea, as the current polarization of the planet is almost completely due to the ignorance of the West in regard to Islamic culture."
I would recommend contributing a large FRACTION of the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of tax dollars already spent invading the Muslim world to schools of this sort.
10 - JustOneMan
Ruvy...its already happend but even in a larger and more bizarre scale
The New York Village of Kiryas Joel is a religious enclave of Satmar Hasidim, practitioners of a strict form of Judaism. Its incorporators intentionally drew its boundaries under the State's general village incorporation law to exclude all but Satmars.
Tax payers money going to a orthodox jewish school that wont let non jews attend...
Imagine if this were a christian group..lol
More nonsense from the liberal left...
JOM
11 - The Obnoxious American
Moonraven,
One post fully dedicated to calling me names then a second, with some actual points. I guess that's some kind of progress :>
My comments are not rooted in bigotry, this is a clear violation of the concept of separation of church and state. That it's been done in other precincts does not make it right by any stretch.
I am all for more understanding in the world, of course I expect the same in kind (although it has not been forthcoming).
Note that we didn't "invade the Muslim world" until after that fateful day in 2001. Your position is in my opinion akin to appeasement. Are you screaming for schools that teach American culture in the northern areas of Pakistan or in Iran?
12 - JustOneMan
Obnox...
As a Jew are you also against the bullshit going on in Kiryas Joel in New York State?
JOM
13 - Baronius
Moon, correcting ObAm's spelling with typos was hilarious. Keep the chuckles coming.
ObAm, nice work.
14 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Obnoxious -
Are you also part of The Tribe as JOM alleges, or is he just blowing smoke up everyone's ass assuming that a New Yorker must, ipso facto, be a Jew?
I'm not going to jump all over your ass - though if you've looked at my other comments I've already jumped all over the American Jews still in exile.
As for the Satmar in New York, the less said about them, the better... They should live and be well - in Kiryas Yoel or Williamsburg.
15 - The Obnoxious American
JOM,
Based entirely upon what you are saying, I'd agree that it is not too kosher :> mainly from the standpoint of government money paying for jewish-only study.
However, note that you are talking about a small town in upstate NY which if you've ever been up there is a VERY jewish area, so there are not too many non-jews looking for basic education and getting forced out of schools. The same kind of scenario plays out in countless small christian towns across the US bible belt, which is in part what has spurred the whole prayer in schools debate.
Also, as a general rule, Jews do integrate into the society that they live in. The same cannot be said of Muslims, and with the question of terrorist recruitment (which does not happen in Jewish circles either), the idea of a Madrassa is of concern.
16 - JustOneMan
The Obnoxious American - you have outed yourself as a "fake, phoney, fraud" - Bob Grant
Hasidic Jews integrate into the society that they live in thats a blatant lie.. and this town in upstate New York is worse than the NY situation because it is all controlled by a looney cult pf Jews equal to the loony cult of Muslims..
I guess government money for jews is OK.. but for muslims and god forbid Christians it wrong..
You make me sick!
JOM
17 - The Obnoxious American
Usually when I get people sick it's with Herpes, but that's another story :>
Seriously though, if you want to make Hasidic Jews your cause, then by all means go ahead. Fact is that there is a huge difference between a small town in upstate NY that IS comprised mainly of jews getting fed money (just like many all catholic towns in the bible belt that also get fed dollars) versus an entire public school in New York City devoted to one religion, where there are thousands of children dropping out due to poor education. If you fail to see the difference here, then that's your problem but it is different.
18 - JustOneMan
"just like many all catholic towns in the bible belt that also get fed dollars"
Please name them...there arent any towns that have incorprated with the goal to subvert tax dollars to finance their religion..the only one in the US is a jewish community in New York...
In addition I guess your advocating that NY public schools do away with all those religious holidays - Christian and Jewish..ironically all of the Christian holidays are now called spring break and winter break rather tha Easter and Christmas.. but the jewish holidays yum kippor and roshashanna are called by their jewish name..
Doe we see a pattern here?
JOM
19 - The Obnoxious American
Please name all catholic towns in the US? Jews make up something like 5% of the US populace, with the majority of those living on the coasts. There are COUNTLESS small towns in this great country who are inhabited by people of a single denomination.
Why do you think the question of teaching creationism is even an issue? It's because the teaching of evolution is in conflict with christianity. Taxpayer dollars will pay for those classes, and tax payer dollars are paying for the debate. Remember the scruffle regarding the ten commandments in the courtroom? Taxpayer dollars put those tablets there, paid to take them down, and paid for the judicial debate. These are just the two that came to mind fastest, there are countless other scenarios.
As far as days off? I think the current set of days off should continue. I am fine with adding in Muslim holy days as well (although Ramadan might be a bit tough on the syllabus). There is a difference between the extreme that you are talking about, and common sense.
JOM, I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to put your nonsensical words in my mouth, and instead listened to the words I did say. Not sure what "pattern" your conspiracist mind is cooking up, but I am sure that I really don't care.
20 - JustOneMan
gee what a non-response to a question..
one more time
Name the towns?
there arent any towns that have incorprated with the goal to subvert tax dollars to finance their religion..the only one in the US is a jewish community in New York...
I rest my case..you cant have it both ways..if you stop the Arabic school you have to close the funding for the jewish religious school in ny..
JOM
JOM
21 - JustOneMan
Obnox...are you an athiest or a jew??
"Remember the scruffle regarding the ten commandments in the courtroom?" Wasnt Moses a Jew? Arent the 10 Commandments from the old testament?
hmmmmmm....something about you just isnt right...
JOM
22 - The Obnoxious American
>>>hmmmmmm....something about you just isnt right...
That's a sure pot calling the kettle moment. Listen my friend, obviously you have an axe to grind against hasidic jews, and that's your problem but not relevant to the article. If you want to cast me as biased, that's also your problem.
I am willing to engage in a sensible debate with you relating to this article. However, you are trying to turn this discussion into something that is not relevant. If you'd like to post a blog relating to the issues you are bringing up I'd be happy to give it a read and post comments on it. But don't come into this post trying (poorly I might add) to turn this valid concern I raise in my blog into your cause about an unrelated topic.
23 - Christopher Rose
Ob-Am, although I share your frustration with JOM's peculiarly uncharming ways, there is no requirement at BC for the comments to stay on topic to the original thrust of the article they accompany.
Graceless as he is, isn't JOM's question worth an answer?
24 - Graham McKnight
Obnoxious American, you state that 'this is a clear violation of the concept of separation of church and state.'
I would agree with you had the course on offer been named 'Islamic Studies', but we are dealing with something that the academics have labled 'Arabic Studies'. Arabic is a language, not a religion.
Considering that your nation has implanted itself upon a number of Arabic speaking nations such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia, you ought to see this move as a positive step. The questioning of 'Illegal Combatants' would be made all the more easier with the abundance of qualified translators soon to graduate from the establishment in question, no?
Seriously though, your argument is flawed from the outset as Islam and Islamic Studies will not play an integeral role in the syllabus of any institution that offers Arabic Studies.
25 - JustOneMan
lol lol..that didnt take long --- rather than defend your opinion you have to make some sort of claim of anti semitism...oh wow..that will scare me a way..LOL LOL I was right you are a phoney...
hey why dont you rename it Separation of Yeshiva and State
Maybe Ruvy is right and you are part of what he calls the "cowardly and scared shitless American Jews"
JOM