Secret Prisons, Torture, No Habeas Corpus: Are We Living In Cheney's Butt Instead Of In America? - Page 2

Worst of all is our suspension of habeas corpus. This is an absolute foundation of Western jurisprudence. It means this: when you lock me up, you’ve got to charge me or release me. If you don't, I have the right to challenge your detention of me in court. You can’t keep me in jail indefinitely without putting me in front of a court of law for trial.

Today we’ve got 14,000 people in jail in Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan and secret CIA prisons (probably in one of those Eastern Europe Dictatorstans), whom we keep there without bringing them to justice. Some of them have been in jail for five years without seeing a lawyer, and have no idea what the fuck they’re guilty of.

Cheney/Bush have created a special legal status of human, the so-called “enemy combatant,” who is outside the reach of legal jurisprudence. These guys can be tortured, isolated, and locked up for life without seeing the inside of a court, or even talking to their families.

Let’s be clear what “enemy combatant” means. It means a legal non-person. The Italian philosopher Giorgio Agamben likens them to the first humans to be so designated, under Roman law a few millennia ago. They didn’t call them “enemy combatants” then, they called them “homo sacer”. This was a human being who could be killed by anyone, without the killer ever being guilty of homicide.

In our time, another example of being a non-person was being a Jew in Nazi Germany. They were unter-menschen, sub-humans, who could be locked up and exterminated without anyone being guilty of homicide.

Now I don’t know whether we mean to exterminate “enemy combatants,” although keeping them locked up forever is tantamount to some kind of death.

But I do know we’ve suspended a basic law of our Western human tradition, one of the foundations of what makes us a democracy.

Since not many Americans have been declared “enemy combatants,” most of us don’t give a fuck. But we should. As far as I know, the only time habeas corpus was ever suspended in America before this was when Abraham Lincoln did it during the Civil War, and when Roosevelt locked up Japanese Americans in concentration camps during World War II. But when those wars were over, we went back to democracy as usual. And afterwards, these actions were mightily criticized.

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  • 1 - Arch Conservative

    Sep 29, 2006 at 1:26 pm

    The editors ought ot institute a 'redundancy rule" whereby anyone sinlge person who posts the same shit over and over in the same week is not allowed to post.

    How many times must the rest of be subjected to the lunatic rantings of Adam Ash and how Bush is repsponsible for all of the worl's problems.

    Oh and Adam.. is that the best picture you have of yourself? You look like a fucking heroin junkey with makeup on, on a bad hair day.

  • 2 - Nancy

    Sep 29, 2006 at 1:58 pm

    Better be careful what you wish for, Arch: that would let YOU out, because all you do is spout the same shit over & over, too. You'd NEVER get back on BC, at that rate. Now would a great many of us, me included, I suspect. BC would be devoid of bloggers.

    Adam, good points. I see all this as BushCo. setting up in preparation for 2008, when I think Bush is going to suspend the elections, citing a "national emergency" (& if there isn't one, he'll see to it one is manufactured to order) in order to stay in office indefinitely. I think this is BushCo getting their platform ready so that when ordinary rank & file US citizens protest, they can then extend the habeas corpus suspension to ANYONE who criticizes or protests their takeover, us ordinary whitebread, non-muslim, born-in-the-USA types as well.

    And before Arch & his ilk start slinging slurs & nasty names, I would strongly suggest they read up on the events in Germany from 1936 - 1940, just previous to when Hitler finally took over. The resemblence between the citizens' rights Hitler suspended & what Bush is doing is hair-raising. Those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it, yes?

  • 3 - ModerateTruth

    Sep 29, 2006 at 3:22 pm

    Ya Nancy das ist korrect! Der Bushehfuhrer is probubly plahnung da "natunul emurgency" noow. I really do agree. I think Adam makes some good points and I think that many of us forget that the president can maintain the office after an incident deemed a national emergency.

    I realize that it's the "new language" but I wish some of these guys would lay of the fuck this fuck that and so on. Language can be a beautiful thing and if you make your point without the expletives I think it can add to your persuasiveness. I am really the son of sailor who is the son of a sailor. I can run with the best of the them but I don't think it has a place in debate.

    Arch, you never offer anything but criticism. Ever. Do you actually have any understanding of politics or how the government should work? How did you get so brainwashed as to believe everything that Bush does and says is gospel? I was behind the man when he stood at the site of the WTCs and said we would smokem out of their holes. I cheered when we went to Afghanistan. Then he had to blow it with Iraq, secret prisons, New Orleans, illegal surveillance, etc, etc, etc. He blew it Arch. There are many of us who don't trust him at all anymore. The reason you don't see more of them here is because we don't want to scroll through all the fucks and rants to put their two cents in. They are called the silent majority and they are growing. I know a lot of hardcore conservatives who have changed their tunes on Bush. They think a Dem congress and senate would keep him in check for the next two years. I agree.

  • 4 - JustOneMan

    Sep 29, 2006 at 4:26 pm

    Now Arch...lets be understanding...pre-op transexuals tend to look a certain way...

    Oy my god! That damn stock market is the highest its been in 9 years and that fucking unemployment is the lowest in almost seven years...

    DAMN THAT GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!1

  • 5 - Dr. Kurt

    Sep 29, 2006 at 5:30 pm

    Stalin's ghost stands at Bush's elbow smiling.

  • 6 - Le mouton masqué

    Sep 29, 2006 at 6:26 pm

    Sheep love their shepherds. They are genuinely convinced that shepherds exist solely for the good of sheep and stand in awe of such selflessness.

    Shepherds persuade sheep they protect them from wolves. There’s only a slight price to pay. Every now and then, the farmer’s van comes and some sheep are never seen again. But that’s not advertised.
    The remaining ones could even be witnessed embolden enough to bleat in order to defend that very shepherd they view as the guarantee of their own safety.
    It also dissipates their doubts and calms their anxiety. Yet sheep are too intellectually lazy to contemplate taking on the hard life of their wild goats ancestors.

    Likewise, weak people are fearful of fighting for their own freedom. The easy solution for them is to look for someone to protect them. And they tend to relish strong Regimes (strong against the bad guys that is).
    There has been no shortage, in the history of human communities, of both consummate politicians and meek voters to re-enact this drama thousands of times.

    Today, the rest of the world is watching in total amazement the rapid sinking of formerly loved America and is left wondering how much more misery this is going to bring upon mankind.
    The current suicidal behaviour of the US seems to be rooted in the distinctively American belief that force is more efficient than smartness.
    Intellectual laziness again.
    Strength is for dummies instead.
    Strength is of no use to repair a watch… The more strength you apply, the more broken it becomes actually.

    Arch, do us a favour, stand in front of the mirror and say “baa”.
    Rings a bell ?

    The sooner you realize you’re a sheep, the better.
    For you and for the rest of us.
    For the herd, though dwindling, is still large !
    And every day writes many tragic pages of the world history.

  • 7 - Dave Nalle

    Sep 29, 2006 at 6:38 pm

    I do have to say that I don't get it. This is yet another of the same basic article from Adam. Seriously, Adam. We can turn it into a weekly column for you - pick a catchy title for it.

    Dave

  • 8 - Arch Conservative

    Sep 29, 2006 at 7:39 pm

    For all of you that are obvious oblivious to anything but the sounds of your own voices I actually have critisized Bush on BC many times. Just the other day I wrote a post in which I stated I believe he is partially to blame for 911.

    So it is not me who is a sheep or a blind Bush follower but rather Adam who is the montonous drone. Over and over blaming Bush for everything he can think of. Post after post that's all he has to offer to BC.



  • 9 - Adam Ash

    Sep 29, 2006 at 7:56 pm

    Nalle:
    What the heck are you talking about. This is a whole discussion about "enemy combatants" and habeas corpus. I have NEVER written about that before. Have you taken leave of your senses? What are you smoking?
    Adam

  • 10 - Arch Conservative

    Sep 29, 2006 at 8:14 pm

    Need you be reminded that Lincoln actually suspended habeas corpus and America did not fall apart Adam. Indeed Lincoln is viewed as one of our nation's greatest presidents.

    I think what Dave was referring to was the fact that you are incapable of writing an article without somehow finding a way to bash Bush. it would seem as if that is your only reason for getting out of bed in the morning. To find a new approach to bash Bush.

  • 11 - Arch Conservative

    Sep 29, 2006 at 8:16 pm

    Well that and to get your Sustiva at the free clinic.

  • 12 - Jon Sobel

    Sep 29, 2006 at 10:19 pm

    It's true, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, but what Arch doesn't seem to know is that history has judged that decision to be the great shame of Lincoln's amazing and, in so many other ways, heroic Presidency.

    Nalle perplexes me and always has. In his own articles, and often in comments, he makes cogent, well-supported arguments. Yet sometimes he comes out with an obvious piece of nonsense such as comment #7, and then, when called on it, he vanishes.

  • 13 - Baronius

    Sep 29, 2006 at 11:05 pm

    Moderate, we probably disagree on every political issue. Who cares. I'm so glad to see someone else objecting to swearing. The funny thing is, my dad was a Navy man too. He used language that I wouldn't, but he saved it for special occasions, and never used it in front of his kids.

  • 14 - Dave Nalle

    Sep 30, 2006 at 1:42 am

    I haven't vanished, I just have a life, Jon.

    Perhaps I was too quick with my comment in #7 and didn't explain fully.

    The reason that I suggested Adam make it a column/feature is that he's basically making the same point over and over again even though he's approaching it from slightly different contexts each time.

    His 5 most recent articles, boiled down:

    Bush has turned America into a fascist state.
    Bush has turned us into a laughing stock.
    Bush has embarassed us with incompetence.
    Bush has diminished us as a nation.
    Bush has has made a mess of the Iraq war.

    Now, the middle three are close to being the same article restated in different words. But all five have a common theme - they're all about how Bush and his cohorts are destroying America.

    Aside from that theme, the other thing the all have in common is the reliance on unproven assumptions and shaded/spun versions of facts, relentless negativism and a lack of interest in considering any of the events referenced from any perspective except for one in which Bush is the root of all evil.

    Yes, the ostensible subjects of this article and the one about Iraq are broader than just bashing Bush, but that's still what they come down to in the end.

    So what we have here is a coherent body of work. We could call it the Bushologue, and it would make a good regular feature.

    Dave

  • 15 - Jet In Columbus

    Sep 30, 2006 at 1:49 am

    Seems to me I just read/wrote this article somewhere before???

  • 16 - Clavos

    Sep 30, 2006 at 2:00 am

    So what we have here is a coherent body of work.

    Coherent, yes. Cogent? No.

  • 17 - Adam Ash

    Sep 30, 2006 at 8:16 am

    Nalle:
    What you don't appreciate is that my Bush-bashing stems from how much I love America. My rage against Bush will never cease, because my love for America will never die.

    That's why I have to keep going after Bush, article after article, to keep my love for America alive and well, and reaffirm it, and share it with others -- the outrage and the pride. The decent, big-hearted, full-of-dreams, can-do America that I love, the America that is great, the America of the Constitution and rock 'n roll and the 60s and civil rights and many dissident voices and feminism and nine-times improved marijuana and immigrants from all over and New York City, the greatest city on earth, this America is diminished and slandered and insulted and undermined and subverted and betrayed by our President in everything he says and does.

    I cannot think of a more important subject under the topic of politics today. If you can't appreciate that, I don't know which country you think you're living in.

    I care. Maybe you don't so much, and that may be our big difference.

    Adam.

  • 18 - charlo

    Sep 30, 2006 at 8:25 am

    Bush and his family and dick-chainey are nothing more than common criminals with money, which has allowed them to slither into high positions in this country. They have brought nothing but death disgrace embarrassment and worldwide distrust of what was once a proud and respected nation. All the name calling directed at persons speaking out against these atrocities and the blatant ways they are done are subjected a litany of name calling by the power blind, money hungry or just plain stupid Bush-Cheney supporters. Anyone supporting these two common assholes at this point aren't worthy of kissing Adam Ash's ares, or my own for that matter. I cannot believe this head tard has not been impeached, and the dick-head who reigns beside him as well. I have nothing but contempt for these two criminals, Keep on putting it out there Adam Ash!!!!

  • 19 - charlo

    Sep 30, 2006 at 8:28 am

    excuse me I spelled arse wrong, wouldn't want any Bush-Cheney supporters to be misled on what I meant

  • 20 - doubting thomas

    Sep 30, 2006 at 8:35 am

    Hey Adam,
    keep writing your articles. Great stuff.

  • 21 - Bliffle

    Sep 30, 2006 at 9:11 am

    Is it Daves point that we should have become inured to Bush' transgressions and no longer remark on a new one?

  • 22 - Nancy

    Sep 30, 2006 at 10:58 am

    It is time for all TRUE patriots to call for the impeachment & execution for high treason of George W. Bush, and every single congressman who voted to suspend habeas corpus in order to confer on Bush the position of dictator. As a loyal US citizen, I do so now. This is the outside of enough.

    I have little or no concern for the so-called 'rights' of terrorists. Everybody who's read my rantings on this site knows I think terrorists, insurgents, & illegal aliens are about on a level with cockroaches, and worthy of the same rights & protections as cockroaches; but this goes farther than terrorists, and strikes at the freedom of every single American citizen. It is nothing more than a prelude to a BushCo takeover as I said above. Those of you familiar with the details of the beginnings of the 3rd Reich & the rise of Hitler's absolute power will recognize the signs. This has stopped being a matter for just bitching, IMO. This has become deadly serious. And I don't mean for terrorists; I mean for every US citizen who doesn't want to live under a permanent Bush/Cheney dictatorship. Be aware Bush is also now actively trying to dismantle the independence of the judiciary; he and his flunkies have launched the precursor to this with the usual smear campaign that inevitably precedes the lunge for the throat. Even former Justice S. O'Connor has taken to speaking out against Bush - and in turn is being slandered by the BushCo machine. If this isn't a heads-up on the BushCo roadmap for the future, I don't know what is, and those who can't or won't see it are blind, deaf, and dumb in all sense of that word.

  • 23 - Adam Ash

    Sep 30, 2006 at 11:08 am

    A word about curse words in my pieces:

    Hey, I think of myself as an HBO guy -- trying to delivery quality TV with the way people really talk, like how they curse on the Sopranos & Deadwood.

    If the Anglo-Saxon vernacular is too fucking meaty for you genteel types, so fucking be it. You should read my blog every day -- the fucks fly like turds from an elephant's asshole afflicted with a bad case of diarrhee.

    Meanwhile, my petite aunties, keep on drinking tea with your pinkies out.

  • 24 - Clavos

    Sep 30, 2006 at 11:24 am

    Hey, I think of myself as an HBO guy -- trying to delivery quality TV with the way people really talk, like how they curse on the Sopranos & Deadwood.


    As if TV is a good model...

    Gangsters, rednecks, rappers, and other crude lowlifes talk like that.

    Polite people don't talk like that.

  • 25 - Clavos

    Sep 30, 2006 at 11:33 am

    Those of you familiar with the details of the beginnings of the 3rd Reich & the rise of Hitler's absolute power will recognize the signs.

    One of the first of which was the repeal of the citizens' rights...

    Everybody who's read my rantings on this site knows I think terrorists, insurgents, & illegal aliens are about on a level with cockroaches, and worthy of the same rights & protections as cockroaches; but this goes farther than terrorists, and strikes at the freedom of every single American citizen.

    Exactly.

    When you approve of the government denying anyone their rights, it's only a matter of time before your own rights are taken from you.

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