After election losses, Republicans are again feeling (and sowing) their wild oats.
South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford was already being talked about as a potential Republican Party standard-bearer in the 2012 election. Youthful, good-looking, a Southerner, and a Washington outsider, he seemed to have much of what the party needed to energize a comeback from the disappointments of the last two election cycles.…
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76 - roger nowosielski
Besides, the fact that the Reps may have discontinued the phrase, "family values," because they may have found it worn-out and no longer of political usefulness, doesn't mean that their thinking has changed: it's still a party of "family values," whether they call it so or not.
77 - Jeannie Danna
If Sanford doesn't resign as Governor of SC, then I want Spitzer back as Governor of NY and john Edwards so he can help eliminate poverty in the United States!!!!
Sorry, I'm not on Twitter anymore and I really needed to say this somewhere!
78 - Jeannie Danna
There will not be an apology this morning to the right wing.
I'm too bummed out by the stupidity I see on Sunday morning political TV!
BYE:(
79 - roger nowosielski
One reason why Spitzer was routed out had to do with his iron hand against the Wall Street crooks. (They called him the Major of Wall Street.) So the sex scandal was an excuse.
80 - roger nowosielski
"that's "mayor of Wall Street"
81 - roger nowosielski
Here's one link
82 - roger nowosielski
A better one
83 - Clavos
There will not be an apology this morning to the right wing.
I'm too bummed out by the stupidity I see on Sunday morning political TV!
OMG, I'm desolated.
I may have to slash my wrists.
Or perhaps immolate myself.
84 - zingzing
clavos, clavos, clavos.
what say you we drink enough gasoline to get good and combustible, slash our wrists, run around the room a few times, then set the initial blood-gas trails on fire, which hopefully should burn fast enough that they chase us around the room, until, when they finally catch up to our bodies, we explode in a glorious exhibition of our inner-most organs?
85 - roger nowosielski
It'd dead today, zing. No one wants to participate.
86 - zingzing
well, it's game day. us-brazil 2:30. fuck politics.
87 - roger nowosielski
I'd like to see it on TV, but haven't had one in years. Too bad can't watch it on the net.
88 - Cindy
84 - ick
86 - double ick
89 - zingzing
you're kidding, roger... so many pirates out there. it's easy to find if you look.
cindy. if you don't like sports, that's ok. there's nothing wrong with being uncultured. (smiley emoticon)
90 - Cindy
zingalingadingaling you don't do emoticons either?
ah these cool men and their fear of emoticons :-)(-:
(sports: wretch, gag)
91 - Clavos
The wretch, having drunk gasoline at zing's urging, retched.
92 - zingzing
i see that, clavos.
93 - Baronius
Jeannie, let's try this again.
Republicans/conservatives used the phrase "family values" occasionally between 1986 and 1988. But for the most part, they talked about specific issues: crime, abortion, the black family, education, and divorce. Thereafter, whenever the phrase was used, it came from people like you and Bob Schieffer treating it as a cliche. It would be like me saying that Democrats always use the term "great society".
94 - Jeannie Danna
Baronius, I see you are not going to be happy until Jeannie says that she's wrong and that you are right.
Am I right?
But if I say I'm wrong then you won't talk to me anymore..:(
so, Ill never admit defeat!
The right wing today on Face The Nation
Take a minute and watch, "shifting away from scandals." This is what the right always wants to do when it is theirscandal!
Let me tell you this Baronius,
Most people are concerned about putting food on their tables right now and they do want to see some domestic spending right now!
I like that saying of yours and I do want us to be a "great society."...:)
95 - zingzing
baronius, just look up "family values" in the news. sure, some of the hits come from left-wingers mocking right-wing bullshit, but some of them also come from the right wing. so... seems to be a valid term, no matter how much you want to deny it.
seriously, i wasn't even politically aware until the late-90s sometime and i remember being sick to fucking death of republicans wheeling out the term like it was some sort of badge or hat they could wear. maybe it meant something more substantial back in the era you mention, but it still means something today (even if those spouting it are being shown to be full of shit).
96 - Baronius
'Baronius, I see you are not going to be appy until Jeannie says that she's wrong and that you are right.'
I'd certainly prefer it, but only because you're wrong and I'm right. This is similar to your earlier statement that only Fox News was allowed in the Bush White House. I have this dream that if everyone stood up against inaccurate statements on the web, we could gradually make it reliable.
'Take a minute and watch, "shifting away from scandals." This is what the right always wants to do when it is their scandal!'
That's why the right set up a site called MoveOn.Org after the impeachment of their president...oh, wait, wrong party.
97 - roger nowosielski
zing,
Why don't you check out the link to a video (I posted in #69), which should be more than explanatory and ought to put this matter to rest. It goes beyond the matter of mere words but cuts instead into the underlying ideology.
So even if it's true, as Baronius claims, that the use of the words, "family values" has been discontinued (and we can think here of any variety of reasons), the very thinking which prompted coining the expression is still very much alive and in full force.
98 - Baronius
Gads, Roger! Are you saying that people still think that illiteracy, crime, and abortion are bad?
99 - roger nowosielski
I'm sure they do, Baronius. Did you watch Lakoff's video, though?
100 - Baronius
I watched the video. Pretty simplistic on political matters. I don't listen to Dobson, so I don't know about his analysis of child-rearing, but I somehow doubt that the whole "usually beat their wives" riff was fair.
101 - roger nowosielski
Well, Baronius, just because it's simplistic, doesn't mean it ain't so. Liberal ideas/philosophy is also based on (and can be reduced)few simple/simplistic ideas.
There's nothing really magical or incomprehensible when it comes to the decisive points of disagreement between liberal and conservative philosophy. It's more basic than most people suppose.
102 - Jeannie Danna
Baronius, Are you mad?and I don't mean angry...Bush and Cheney made it public knowledge that they preferred to watch Fox!
I don't have a link to show you [Ex-White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan exposed Fox News as a propaganda tool for the White House. Apparently the White House gives Fox News specific 'talking points' to ensure that their opinions and facts are broadcast through it.]because this video clip was removed ? hhm, by who I wonder
here's one for you
I have to go for now but I'll be back to fight another day..:)
103 - Baronius
Yeah, but Jeannie, that's not what you said. You said that only Fox News was allowed access to the Bush White House.
104 - Jeannie Danna
Baronius, This was my original comment-
#19 For the last thirty years we have been told that only the Republicans/Conservatives Really posses family values...HA!
I have reread all of my comments and cannot find the original reference to Fox news having exclusive coverage to the White House.
If you find it show me, OK?
later...:)
105 - roger nowosielski
A follow-up on the stalwarts of family values.
The saga continues.
106 - roger nowosielski
Breaking news: Palin resigns.
107 - Silas Kain
We are THRILLED that Sarah Palin has resigned. Now she's going to see exactly how the GOP machinery operates. It's a small fraction of the Right that is devoted to her. But with the fall of Ensign and Sanford, the pool of 'acceptable' candidates is shrinking. Does this mean that Pawlenty is in? Not a chance. What about Eric Cantor? Frankly, he acts too 'gay' to be acceptable. Nobody wants a whiny boy as President.
108 - Dan
Silas, The comment about Larry Craig as liberal penis was a hilarious zinger. (thought you should know)
Are you "thrilled" for the potential Palin has positioned herself for? I'm not following you.
Disenchantment with "hope and change" should overcome media cheerleading about early next year I imagine. If Sarah can grab some public exposure as Monday morning quarterback, displaying good policy comprehension, she'll elevate to maverick/stateswoman.
109 - Silas Kain
I am thrilled, Dan, because Sarah Palin will now crash and burn or she will become the darling of the Far Right. At which point she'll crash and burn. While I like Gov. Palin's spunk and folksy nature, she's not ready to be President today, tomorrow or 20 years from now. Either way, I am thrilled because her place pon the national scene will not last much longer. And as she's driven out of the political spotlight it is my deepest hope she takes the Far Right with her. Then, an only then, can moderates and the true Goldwater Conservatives march in like Sherman's troops and take out Limbaugh, Steele, Hannity and Coulter.
110 - handyguy
NBC's Chuck Todd, who is often quite insightful, speculated that Palin will spend the next 18 months making LOTS of money on speeches, maybe a radio show, maybe books.
Then in Dec 2010 or Jan 2011, she may decide to make her move. Or not -- if as some others speculated, she's just sick of politics.
I've been sick of her for almost a year, but I'm not exactly her target audience.
111 - Silas Kain
She's going to make a lot of money for a lot of politicians and not necessarily the ones we return to Congress. For the GOP to have a prayer against Barack Obama in 2012, they need someone articulate, attractive and with a keen sense of humor at the right points. The only GOP papabile who has those characteristics is Mitt Romney. The rest are either sleeping around and getting caught or, um, well Sarah Palin.
112 - Christopher Rose
She's going to be president alright, president of the local hockey mom's association.
If anyone is taking the notion that she is a contender as US President seriously, I want the commercial rights to whatever new drug they are taking.
113 - Dr Dreadful
Silas,
Out of interest, who do you think are the 'true Goldwater' candidates in the GOP who might be lurking in the wings? Who would you like to see as the party's candidate in 2012?
114 - Baronius
If this is a tactic to position herself for the presidency, it's a bad move for two reasons. One, her biggest liabilities have been her lack of experience and her poor articulation. You can work on your articulation while you're a governor, but you can't build experience on the lecture circuit. Two, the Republicans generally don't put youth at the top of the ticket. She's got a better chance at 2016 or 2020. Heck, she's in her 40's. She could have served as governor twice, taken two years off, served in the cabinet for four years, taken two years off to fundraise, and began her 2020 campaign in 2018, at age 54.
115 - Dan
Well, Obamas rise to power has shown us that all the best drugs have already been discovered and distributed to the electorate.
For further evidence, consider that Hillary was a serious contender.
As a final "koop de gracy" in the argument, consider Al Franken. In his personal case, there might even be a legitimate clinical application of the drug.
The notion that Obama will be a formidable opponent in 2012 is to assume a static national condition. It's much easier for a gullible electorate to be fooled into thinking good times are bad, than to think bad times are good.
Having less than half the people work for a living, while more than half the people vote for a living is unsustainable.
116 - El Bicho
There's other bad reasons. According to her resignation speech, she thinks lame ducks are a waste of the taxpayer's money, so if she still holds that opinion when she runs for President, she could only serve for one term. But if she is only going to serve one term, she'd be a lame duck upon her election.
Also, if the national media and her political opponents are too tough to deal with, it shows little resolve to handle the country's enemies who are likely a little tougher.
Time will tell, but right now it seems like a very poor political decision if she wants to be President.
117 - Dan
I took her resignation speech to mean that she didn't think she could serve Alaska well if she has to spend her energy swatting down frivolous partisan ethics charges.
Her virtue as a true reformer is bolstered by the disgraceful hounding she's endured.
The designed portrayal of her as an intellectual lightweight won't continue without substance, (realize that you can actually see Russia from Alaska) and as Obama's cookie crumbles, his unearned status as saviour will suffer. These two things will work in her favor.
118 - Silas Kain
Dr Dread, in answer to your question, I don't see a true Goldwater candidate in the pack. Ron Paul is closer to Barry Goldwater than Mitt Romney. I thought about these things today and I'm beginning to believe that the true definition of Conservative is Libertarian. The GOP is a shell of its former self. While formidable, the party's elite have created a rudderless rank and file. I like former Senator Linc Chaffee (RI), but he's no longer a member of the GOP. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins are akin to the "closet members" of the GOP, but those in the trenches are terrified to cross the establishment for fear of excommunication.
Ironically, and I'll probably get slammed for this, Barack Obama is more of a Republican than Democrat. Had he risen through the GOP ranks, the political dynamic of an Obama Presidency would have had even more impact. Those members of Congress with seniority and positions of power are equally worried about Obama as the Far Right but for different reasons. The Obama Presidency is not that far a departure from the previous tenant at the White House. The major difference? G.W. Bush was uninterested. Barack Obama is deliberate.