After election losses, Republicans are again feeling (and sowing) their wild oats.
South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford was already being talked about as a potential Republican Party standard-bearer in the 2012 election. Youthful, good-looking, a Southerner, and a Washington outsider, he seemed to have much of what the party needed to energize a comeback from the disappointments of the last two election cycles.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Baronius
OK, I walked into that one. Serves me right for trying to be serious on a Satire thread on a Friday.
27 - Baronius
Ike freed Europe, and Mamie waited patiently for him. Let 'em doink. They earned it.
28 - Silas Kain
Dang, Baronius. I think Dwight & Mamie made even YOU uncomfortable!
29 - Baronius
Not as long as I don't have to watch. Hey, that gives me an idea for a parody: the release of the Nixon sex tapes!
30 - Silas Kain
Which Nixon? Tricia Nixon & Ed Cox (snicker)? Julie Nixon and David Eisenhower (in the Dwight & Mamie Memorial bed - double snicker)? Or Pat and Dick? Next thing you know you'll bring up Jimmy and Rasalynn.
31 - Clavos
Oral sex, Roger.
32 - Clavos
Jimmy did it with rabbits -- but only crazed ones.
33 - roger nowosielski
If you're referring to #18, it was a subterfuge. There was a posting by JOM.
34 - Jeannie Danna
Well you all missed the point of my #19, but what the hell it's Friday so talk about four little words...
They still do it!!! :* /_____[
35 - roger nowosielski
I think Silas or was it Jordan rather that dealt with it, Jeannie.
36 - roger nowosielski
See, Clavos, I've told you.
37 - roger nowosielski
Where's everybody? The lunch is over!
38 - Baronius
Jeannie, if you want to discuss your comment, fine. Why the humble pie? I didn't cheat on my wife; I've got nothing to feel bad about.
And it isn't like Republicans are lining up to make adultery illegal. They're talking about things like abortion. How do Sanford's actions make abortion any more moral? Also, there are plenty of Democrats who oppose abortion, and a majority of them favor some restrictions on abortion. So there are plenty of "family values", if that's what you mean, on both sides of the aisle.
Incidentally, I've never heard a conservative use the term "family values", and I've only ever heard it used ironically by liberals. So I'm only guessing that's what you mean by it.
I've got one more question: why doesn't the article mention John Edwards? Probably the same reason I think of him as short. The guy could be an Olympian in bed, but no one would ever think to call him "virile".
39 - Silas Kain
Baronius, I don't view abortion as immoral, I view it as a very personal decision. I understand all sides of the issue, especially with regard to when life actually begins. If it is true that life begins at conception, then I ask about all of those fertilized eggs a woman expels from her body. It seems to me that there are billions of those every year. So, the issue of when "life" actually does begin is far more complicated than our little minds can perceive.
I also agree with your assessment on hearing a conservative use "family values". The Far Right uses the term religiously. They are not conservatives, they are American Taliban. A real conservative leaves family values as a personal decision, believes in conserving the environment and certainly supports a women's right to choose. On second thought perhaps there IS a conservative party in this country -- Libertarian.
I don't know why the article leaves out John Edwards and I agree with your assessment. I do see him as virile though I think my virile vision of him is diametrically opposite to what's acceptable.
40 - Baronius
Silas, I've gone out of my way to try to find examples of other conservatives, far right, religious right, whoever - you know who we're talking about - using the term "family values". I've never run across it. We tend to be much less vague.
41 - roger nowosielski
Wasn't that, though, a rather common phrase used by people like William Bennett and George Lakoff during "culture wars"?
42 - roger nowosielski
Dan Quayle, too, comes to mind in the "Murphy Brown" affair.
43 - Baronius
Never happened, as far as I can tell.
44 - Jeannie Danna
Baronus, Go back and look at the platforms Reagan and both Bush's ran on! The words "family values" being the corner stone.
Incidentally, I've never heard a conservative use the term "family values", and I've only ever heard it used ironically by liberals. So I'm only guessing that's what you mean by it.
What liberals? I didn't know there were any Liberals in politics. The only liberals I ever wanted to work in politics refused. Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky (I think I spelled their names right.)
I would like to apologize for the humble pie remark. I do have a tendency to fly off the handle a bit...:( Sorry Baronus.
I am working for the season so I am not here all the time like before. My comments have become like little hit and runs..:)
45 - roger nowosielski
Just a little reminder for those who're too busy look:
"The use of family values as a political term became widespread after a 1992 speech by Vice President Dan Quayle that attributed the Los Angeles riots to a breakdown of family values. Quayle specifically blamed the violence in L.A. as stemming from a decay of moral values and family structure in American society. In an aside, he cited the fictional title character in the television program Murphy Brown as an example of how popular culture contributes to this "poverty of values", saying: "[i]t doesn't help matters when primetime TV has Murphy Brown"a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent, highly paid, professional woman"mocking the importance of fathers, by bearing a child alone, and calling it just another 'lifestyle choice'". Quayle drew a firestorm of criticism from feminist and liberal organizations, and was widely ridiculed by late-night talk show hosts for saying this. (In an interview years after the incident, Quayle said it was an off-hand remark and that he had no idea it would ignite such controversy, nor had he intended for it to. Ironically, the show's star Candice Bergen herself said in an interview after the show was cancelled that she agreed with him.) The "Murphy Brown speech" and the resulting media coverage damaged the Republican ticket in the 1992 presidential election and became one of the most memorable incidents of the 1992 campaign. Long after the outcry had ended, the comment continued to have an effect on US politics. Stephanie Coontz, a professor of family history and the author of several books and essays about the history of marriage, says that this brief remark by Quayle about Murphy Brown "kicked off more than a decade of outcries against the 'collapse of the family'".[9]
Others have used the phrase in such slogans as: Hate is not a family value. Jim Wallis, at the Sojourners Call for Renewal in 2006, titled his speech "Poverty is not a family value."[citation needed] Many Americans believe that access to health care and to education, and freedom from violence, are important family values."
Source: wikipedia
46 - Jeannie Danna
[Some have suggested that in today's world, the family has somehow become less important. Well, I can't help thinking just the opposite: that when so much around us is whispering the little lie that we should live only for the moment and for ourselves, it's more important than ever for our families to affirm an older and more lasting set of values. Yet, for all that, in recent decades the American family has come under virtual attack. It has lost authority to government rule writers. It has seen its central role in the education of young people narrowed and distorted. And it's been forced to turn over to big government far too many of its own resources in the form of taxation.] Ronald Reagan
47 - Baronius
Roger, the problem is that Quayle never used the phrase in the Murphy Brown speech.
Jeannie, the phrase appears once in the 1980 GOP platform, twice in 1984, and three times (all references to judges) in 1988.
48 - Jeannie Danna
I don't use wikipedia as a source because it can be edited by anyone.
49 - Jeannie Danna
Read # 46 Baronius and click on link it's Reagan's radio address
50 - Jeannie Danna
Radio Address to the Nation on Family Values
December 20, 1986
51 - roger nowosielski
Well, these things are verifiable. At least there's material here that if one wants to, one can dig deeper.
52 - Baronius
I read it. It's a Christmas address, which tend to be vague. Reagan was usually more specific.
53 - Jeannie Danna
Look what the top of the page says. This is not vague.
54 - roger nowosielski
I don't have a dog in this fight. But if you look this article up, you will see the phrase used by "the liberals" - Planned Parenthood, e.g. - but obviously with a different meaning/intent in mind.
55 - Jeannie Danna
Wait, there's more!
56 - roger nowosielski
Yep. I quoted only a passage. Click on the link.
57 - Jeannie Danna
[Family values don't stop at the Rio Grande River,] George W. Bush
How Bush has replaced natural rights with family values..
58 - Jeannie Danna
Baronuis, Wait, I'll go find more!If you don't mind...:)
59 - Baronius
Jeannie, I'm saying that Reagan was usually very specific, and tended not to use weenie words like "family values". But in a Christmas speech, a politician will use syrupy phrases.
60 - Baronius
Jeannie, you'll notice that in your GWB quote, he's using the phrase mockingly.
61 - Jeannie Danna
Pat Robertson on family values
62 - Cindy
Hi Jeannie,
Love Gore Vidal. I am not so sure Noam Chomsky could be called a liberal. Anarchist, libertarian socialist, leftist, radical left, far left? What do you think?
(He considers himself a Libertarian socialist same thing as an anarchist.)
63 - Jeannie Danna
What comes to mind when you think about what George W. Bush stands for? Family values/issues
64 - Jeannie Danna
Hi Cindy,
Noam Chomsky...
(He considers himself a Libertarian socialist same thing as an anarchist.)
well I'll be! I guess I am an Anarchist...:)
SORT OF
65 - roger nowosielski
Jeannie,
That comment about replacing natural rights with family values (#57), that's a good one.
66 - Jeannie Danna
Baronius, I don't want to bombarded you with links & quotes. Can you see my point of view at all? :)
67 - Jeannie Danna
Did anyone see my little stick body in #34?
ROTFLOL...:)
68 - Jeannie Danna
:#
69 - roger nowosielski
The following is a good discussion/video by George Lakoff, a linguist and the intellectual spokesperson for Republican thinking in the nineties (again, the general context is "culture wars" alluded to earlier). I don't understand why the memories are suddenly failing:
George Lakoff.
70 - Bliffle
Good satire, Jon. Brief, pointed and not heavy-handed. Pretty even-handed too, by getting in some appropriate digs at the dems.
Our pols are REALLY virile! They're bonking everything in sight.
71 - roger nowosielski
Jeannie,
When you get back on this thread, do check out the link I provided in #69. It lays it all out in fairly comprehensive term.
Baronius should look at it too.
72 - Baronius
Jeannie - I understand what you're saying, that the phrase "family values" is associated with the conservative movement. But the phrase had a really short life span, being used unironically for only about three years.
73 - Clavos
Our pols are REALLY virile! They're bonking everything in sight.
That's probably the one area where they're not much different from the general populace. They just get caught more because they are pols and in the public eye.
74 - roger nowosielski
Nice take on Sanford's late change of heart and split personality: Genius in the Bottle.
75 - Jeannie Danna
Baronius, In answer to your #72, Bob Schieffer this morning on "Face The Nation" referred to the Republican party as the party of Family Values...it continues! and so does our little tug of war:)