Protect Obama: The left-wing media is on "racism patrol," staking out protests and criticism, so that they can catch themselves some racists!
Dateline MSNBC series, with host Chris Hansen, “To Catch A Predator,” is known for its undercover sting operation to catch those sick individuals that prey on our youth via the internet. But did you know that MSNBC is now engaged in a scheme to protect our president? Yes, they are on "racism patrol," staking out protests and criticism so that they can catch themselves some racists!…
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— go to most recent comments26 - Dr Dreadful
And African is NOT a race, it's a nationality.
Nope.
There is no country or nation named Africa.
Try again.
27 - Baronius
Glenn, I did address your point when I said that your preoccupation with race is disturbing.
Christine, you can't shame these people. They walk into a room and count the number of people of each race, and think you're a racist because you don't.
28 - John Wilson
EJ, #16 sounds like a plea to ignore racism. But ignoring racism will not help getting rid of it.
29 - roger nowosielski
"Nor do you, desipite what any polls say, have any way of knowing the economic or educational composition of the Tea Party movement."
So what are they? Undifferentiated mass? People at large? What does that mean?
You mean the only affinity among them are cries for limited government and state rights?
30 - roger nowosielski
"Christine, you can't shame these people. They walk into a room and count the number of people of each race . . ."
Is that what Glenn intimated he was doing? A rather odd reading of the comment. But race and gender still appear to be one of the first things one notices about a person or a crowd. Anyone who denies that is an idiot.
So yet, one can tell right of the bat about the composition of a crowd, or whether one's interlocutor is a black, or a female, and all such things. Does that mean one has to resort to counting? Of course it doesn't.
Again, only a fool would.
31 - EJ
I caught that after I posted it. My mistake. It's a continent. However, I'm still correct in saying that there is no race of African. No, we shouldn't ignore racism. But we should stop attrubiting racism toanything bad that happens between people of different races. Just because a white cop shoots a black person, does that mean that the cop is racist? Not unless you have very specific reasons to believe so, such as the cop saying something like "I'm going to shoot the nigger". It could be any race, it doesn't matter. But people need to stop immediately screaming racism everytime something happens between different races, whether it's a poltical party predominately composed of one race, or a police shooting, or a crime statistic, or a protest, or whatever else you can think of. No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and you know it. You're implying that Tea Party members are racist because there aren't many, if any, black people among them. You're also saying that the Tea Party doesn't hold to beliefs that a lot of poor, black, or unemployed people believe. All I'm saying is that you have no real way of knowing that beyond your own speculations and a poll that you cited from a notoriously biased source.
32 - El Bicho
"Jesus never broke laws"
Because you know everything about him from reading a few stories that document a part of his life.
33 - zingzing
baronius: "They walk into a room and count the number of people of each race"
ha. sure. the noble conservative.
ej, while i understand what you're trying to say, you're making a rather pointless point. "african-american" is used to describe black americans when black americans need to be described as such. our olympic basketball team isn't the african-american basketball team. but michael jordan, when the question is on minority nba team owners, isn't just an american either.
34 - roger nowosielski
"You're also saying that the Tea Party doesn't hold to beliefs that a lot of poor, black, or unemployed people believe."
I think it's rather apparent that they don't, by and large. Now, how does it resemble the Civil Rights movement, for example? Who were the whites who marched along with the blacks then?
We know that George Wallace and the rednecks were not part of that crowd.
And on what basis do you ground your own conviction that the teapartiers represent the working poor, the blacks, and the unemployed? Doesn't it stand to reason that if by and large they did, they would be joined in the common cause by their brothers and sisters. But that wasn't and thus far isn't the case. So something doesn't compute here.
Either way, the country is divided along the healthcare lines and a whole bunch of other issues such as the role of government, of the "free markets," etcetera and etcetera. A call for unity is great and I'm all for it, but there has first got to be a common ground - points of common agreement. I don't see that happening as yet. Do you?
35 - zingzing
"Jesus never broke laws"
um... yes he did. you're kidding, right? why do you think they executed him?
36 - roger nowosielski
"but michael jordan, when the question is on minority nba team owners, isn't just an american either."
Nicely put, zing. Validates the use of the term without any racial overtones.
37 - roger nowosielski
"Crucified," zing, is the right word.
38 - EJ
@ 33. The term "African American" is ONLY a used because it's politically correct and probably won't offend people. Yet, it's incorrect. Neither Africans nor Americans are races, so you can't use that term to decribe a race. It's like calling someone an Native American Indian when describing his race. American Indians (as opposed in Indains from India) are of the red race. Describing someone as a Native American Indian when you want to describe his race is incorrect.
@34 I don't know where you've been, but I've seen a lot of different races and types of people at Tea Party rallies (btw, I'm not a Tea Partier). That's why I say that they do represent many different types of people. Maybe it's different where you are, but the ones that I've seen were composed of many different people, not just a few scattered races intermingled with white people.
39 - zingzing
ej, african american is what it is. you're thinking about it too much.
40 - EJ
So says the person who knows he's wrong..
41 - Dan
Don't look now, but whites are quite under represented in the Democrat party. Except in leadership positions of course.
My analysis for why there are so few blacks at tea party gatherings is cultural. A very large segment of the black population has a historical culture of dependency. Tea partiers are independent. the black people who are at tea party functions are typically self sufficient, able people same as the whites.
42 - roger nowosielski
EJ -
If the term such African-American (or Irish-American or Italian-American) were an anomaly, it would sound so - yes, to the ear. But they don't. In fact, they've become accepted as part of the lingo, especially when it comes to expressing one's ethnic pride.
Do you see a contradiction there - expressing a pride in one's original culture and their ancestors' and "being an American" at the same time?
43 - roger nowosielski
#41:
Ergo: Since only a minority of blacks are self-sufficient, only a small proportion of the total black population are teapartiers.
44 - EJ
I agree with Dan. Tea Partiers are, for the most part, independant and self suffiecient people. Black people, in general, aren't. If it's an expression of pride in one's origional culture, that's perfectly fine. I have no problem with that. You just need to recognize that it's NOT a correct term for race. Race is different than nationality, or culture. Just as saying "Hispanic" is not a correct term for race. Hispanics from from the island of Hispanola. It's a nationality, not a race. The terms Italian-American and Irish-American are the same thing. They do NOT desribe race.
@ 41. If that's true, what's racist about that? The people here who've been making an issue of black people not being Tea Partiers are implying that the Tea Party is racist because of the lack of black people.
45 - zingzing
dan: "A very large segment of the black population has a historical culture of dependency."
ew.
ej: "So says the person who knows he's wrong.."
sorry. no.
46 - roger nowosielski
"Race is different than nationality, or culture. Just as saying "Hispanic" is not a correct term for race. Hispanics from from the island of Hispanola. It's a nationality, not a race. The terms Italian-American and Irish-American are the same thing. They do NOT desribe race."
Great. We reached a point of agreement.
47 - EJ
@ 45
Actually, yes. "You're thinking about it too much". That's only an arguement someone would give when he knows he's wrong, but still wants to say something. It's an excuse to try to say that I don't know what I'm talking about, yet still allow you to look good by not saying exactly that.
48 - EJ
Exactly. That's why I refuse to say African-American. It's incorrect to say that when describing a race.
49 - Jeff Forsythe
It would appear to me as if an "African-American" values the "aftrican" above the American. Why don't you people just all say that you are Americans instead of all of the extraneous and unnecessary labels?
Frankly we do not have this problem here in Utopia
Mr. Forsythe
50 - roger nowosielski
In actual point of fact, Dan did provide at least one alternative explanation as to the rather poor participation of blacks in the Tea Party movement (and that's regardless of whether I agree with him about his rather general characterization of blacks as exhibiting a "historical culture of dependency."
So that's one reason for "poor participation" on the part of blacks (in addition to the overused "race argument")
Another possible reason: blacks simply don't see the objectives of the teapartiers as representing their objectives and interests.
A third possible reason: blacks themselves may regard the teapartiers as racists.
So there you are, ladies and gents. Choose your poison.
51 - zingzing
ej, it has become part of the language. it describes what it describes. get over it.
52 - EJ
That's why it only serves to divide us rather than unite us when we use terms such as that. We need to look at ourselves as Americans first and foremost. Then we can recognize our ancestry and heritage. 'African-Americans' value their African heritage above their American heritage, 'Irish-Americans' value their Irish heritage above their American herigate. That only leads to people valuing the heritage of their home countries or ancestry rather than their American heritage. If they value their ancestry so much, maybe they should move back to their respective countries.
Zing: Yeah it does describe something. That somethin that it describes is NOT what you mean when you use the term. You should really learn how to use the English language correctly.
53 - roger nowosielski
Zing, you and ej are closer to agreement than you think.
Re-read the first part of his #44 (except for the first two sentences).
54 - zingzing
roger, i'm saying he's making a rather pointless point. i understand what he's trying to say, but who gives a shit? he's arguing semantics. why? i don't know.
55 - EJ
You obviously don't know how important semantics is then.
56 - roger nowosielski
I don't know about other kind of motivation, but African-American, Irish-American, Italian-American are terms which have come into use (even before the advent of PC) as legitimate expressions of a person's ethic background, original culture, etc. - especially appropriate during celebration days - e.g., the Columbus Day, St. Patrick Day, etcetera. So EJ has not denied that; they are not terms which denote race.
As to the other point, whether the pride of being an American should supersede the pride in one's cultural origins - that's another question. One could well argue that for a long long time, the American blacks had very little reason to feel pride about being Americans (because they weren't regarded as such); but things are changing, hopefully.
57 - Jeff Forsythe
Please allow me to clarify. I never meant to imply that I agree with his "They should go back where they came from" line. I was only observing that pride in being american could come first obviously.
After all I'm proud to be a Utopian above all else as are we all here.
Mr. Forsythe of Utopia
58 - EJ
And if they're so proud of their heritage that they value it above their pride of being an American, why should they stay here? I'm not saying to kick them out. I'm saying have pride in THIS country above others. After all, why is it that people come here? Because this country is better than other countries that don't have freedom.
59 - roger nowosielski
Hey Jeff,
Can I get a one-way ticket?
60 - Christine
My my, what did I miss?
61 - zingzing
ej, one can be proud of both heritage and the nation one lives in. just because the "african" in african-american comes first doesn't change that...
62 - Baronius
"so says the person who knows he's wrong"
EJ, I disagree.
63 - Dan(Miller)
I wonder what "Minorities" living elsewhere should be called. African-Germans, Hispanic-Poles, Native American-Greeks?
"People?" Nah. That's too simple. "Citizens?" Nah. That's too exclusive. How about ape-descended carbon-based life forms? That might be OK for now.
In the interest of solving all of the problems of racism in the tea party movement, there must be racial quotas, with minimum standards for attendance by race. If those quotas, established by a new Bipartisan Uniformity in Racial Progress ("BURP") Commission are not met, meeting permits must be denied.
Dan(Miller)
64 - Dr Dreadful
Don't look now, but whites are quite under represented in the Democrat party. Except in leadership positions of course.
Probably without meaning to, Dan puts his finger on the real issue here.
Arguing over whether the Tea Partiers or anyone else to the left of David Duke are racist is, frankly, pointless. The days when it was acceptable for a mainstream organization to be openly racist are long gone. And quite rightly, the average Republican, or Democrat, or Tea Partier, will be appalled at anything racist he perceives going on in his organization.
But you can't get away from the fact that there is still racism at work in American society. It just tends to be institutional rather than individual. So it would benefit you much more to look at exactly why it is that a black American is more likely than a white American to go to prison for the same crime, for example, or why a white applicant has a better chance of landing a particular job than a black applicant with the same qualifications... or just why it is that there are so few black Republicans and so many black Democrats.
There's no one simple answer to any of these questions either.
65 - Dr Dreadful
Ooh look, another Dan!
Greetings, O Parenthesised One.
66 - Dan(Miller)
Thanks, Doc.
Here is another perspective on allegations of conservative "racism." I had wondered why leftist folks are so obsessed with race, and the linked article seems to explain it.
Dan(Miller)
67 - Christine
Interesting article, Dan. Thanks for the link. Interesting comments going on here as well. Catcha later, gotta go to my daughters softball game.
68 - EJ
So, Dr. Dreadful, what proof do you have to back up your claims?
69 - Jeff Forsythe
Interesting how Mr. E.J. presumes that we must accept his rambling consciousness as gospel, yet demands proof of others'
Good morning boys and girls can you say hypocrite?
No tickets available Roger but I will put you on the waiting list.
We had a hyphonated fellow here once. He called himself an intellectual-Utopian. We deported him of course.
Mr. Forsythe
70 - Dan(Miller)
Christine,
gotta go to my daughters softball game.(emphasis added)
Better watch your language; it could be construed as sexist, ageist and otherwise politically incorrect.
Here: I fixed it for you: gotta go to my age-victimized adult-status-deprived offspring's racially-and-ethnically-inclusive non-violent athletic event.
That's better.
Dan(Miller)
71 - EJ
@ 62: Why exactly do you disagree? Unless you explain your reasons, I don't really give a damn that you disagree. You might want to learn how to have a debate of discussion. Giving opinions without giving reasons why you hold those opinions is pointless, and frankly, stupid.
I'm not making claims about society like Dreadful is doing. If you're going to make a claim that black people are more likely to go to prison than a white person for the same crime, you should back up that claim. My opinion is just that, an opinion; and any claims that I have made are based on my observations. But claiming something as fact doesn't mean anything unless you provide some proof. All I'm saying is that, based on my observations, people who hyphenate their race or nationality really aren't patriotic because they seem to value the heritage of their home countries above their American heritage; or they're trying to describe a race using incorrect terms. If you describe yourself as an African-American when trying to describe your race, you're WRONG. As I said before, there is no race of African, nor is American a race. If you're using the term to describe your heritage, you're telling people that you're not an American first and foremost. You should be American first. You should be proud of this country and proud to be called an American, not an African-American, or Irish-American. Again, based on my obervations, people who (incorrectly) hpyhenate their races, or hyphenate their nationalities like that haven't assimilated into the United States; they seem to only care about the benefits of living here rather than actually being patriotic and loving this country. It seems to me that most people like that, who talk about how great their home country is and how proud they are to be from that country, should just go back to their countries, since they're so proud of them anyways. If you come to this country, you should assimilate into our society and should be patriotic; you shouldn't be here just because of the benefits of living here as I've seen many people who hyphenate their races or nationality names. I don't mean to say that you should be able to speak Spanish (for example), or display a Mexican flag, or anything like that. I'm saying that you need to be more proud of this country than other countries, that you need to consider yourself an American before anything else. Go talk to almost any legal immigrant from previous generations, and they'll tell you the same thing.
72 - Clavos
Nor is American a race. It's a nationality.
No, it isn't. Like African or European, it merely denotes what continent an individual is from. As a Mexican (which IS a nationality) by birth, I, (and all others born in the Americas) resent the arrogance of persons born in the USA referring to themselves as "American." You are no more American than I, or than a Canadian, or Brazilian, Argentine, Peruvian, Honduran, etc. ALL of us are Americans, even if we've never set foot in the USA.
73 - zingzing
"As a Mexican (which IS a nationality) by birth, I, (and all others born in the Americas) resent the arrogance of persons born in the USA referring to themselves as "American.""
yes, we're united statsians. the name "united states of america" obviously comes from the fact that individual states in america (the continent) were combined together. "america" is the only part of the phrase that makes sense to use. and, being that the us was the first post-colonial sovereign nation, we grabbed whatever name we cared to, i guess.
but, like "african-american," it's just a damn word. no use getting all upset about it. i assure you that there's no arrogance about it. it just is the way it is. has been for a long time. if you want persons born in the us to identify another way, invent a fucking time machine. it's too damn late.
either way, what would you suggest if not "american?" "united statesian" really doesn't work.
74 - zingzing
"the first post-colonial sovereign nation"
without looking up the history of every nation in the americas, i do wonder if that's true. is there another nation (in the modern sense) that has consistently been known by the same name longer than the united states? i know brazil was always brasil, but they didn't truly gain independence as brazil until the early 1800s. either way, people didn't give a shit about such trivial things back in the pre-revolutionary days. they had better things to worry about. like marauding europeans and the like.
75 - EJ
The full name of this country is the United States of America. We commonly shorten the name and call ourselves Americans.