"I am France," the Sun King, Louis XIV, famously said. Several candidates in an unprecedented Sun King-Reaganesque style struggled to claim consubstantiation with the nation last Sunday in a showing of what winner Nikolas Sarkozy and others called a victory for democracy.
The poll projections for the first round of the French presidential election have been crunched and, unlike the last election (in 2002), when Jean-Marie Le Pen freaked out the world by showing that a neo-fascist could win 17% of the vote, this time there were few surprises. Uh-huh, this time the savvy right-of-center Nikolas Sarkozy (of the Union Mouvement Populaire party) 
headed the pack with over 30 % of the vote, showing how a right-of-center candidate can poach the slogans of the extreme wing of his ideological sphere (as the Republicans in the U.S. have done so well at least since Nixon began the Southern strategy), speak in code about race, and try to scare or seduce undecided centrists into voting for him on hot button issues--especially Islamophia coded as immigration, law and order, and the candidacy of Turkey to enter the EU.
The Socialist Party candidate Ségolène Royal received just over 25% of the vote, placing her in the second and final run-off for the French presidency in early May. Francois Bayrou, the self-appointed bridge of right and left, ended up with a strong but still inadequate showing of almost 19%, while the right-wing surprise of 2002, Jean-Marie Le Pen, garnered just over 10% this time (largely because Sarkozy stole his fire).
The ministry of the interior at noon Sunday reported a record turnout thus far with over 30% already recorded. By eight Sunday evening news organizations reported it was, in fact, a record turnout in French electoral history with 85.5% of eligible voters heading to the polls.
Here's what it looked like when you slice the French block of voting cheese into 12 qualifying pieces.
SARKOZY Nicolas : 31.09%
ROYAL Ségolène : 25.78%
BAYROU François : 18.53%
LE PEN Jean-Marie : 10.55%
BESANCENOT Olivier : 4.12%
DE VILLIERS Philippe : 2.25%
BUFFET Marie-George : 1.94%
VOYNET Dominique : 1.57%
LAGUILLER Arlette : 1.34%
BOVÉ José : 1.32%
NIHOUS Frédéric : 1.17%
Source: France2 TV
The major issues were said to be government corruption, the economy, and crime/security/immigration. Aside from government corruption, these issues are heavily racially coded. And yet none of these candidates made any honest attempt to deal with the open wound of race in a France plagued with a post-colonial identity crisis. Au contraire, they appealed to nationalism in a way hitherto only reserved for the extreme right, residual supporters of Tyrannosaurus De Gaulle, and 30s fascists whose necks were spared after World War II (such as Le Pen).
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Al Barger
This is a weak excuse for a hit piece, with little but accusatory choice of adjectives to make any point. OF COURSE any candidate who wishes to deal the least bit seriously with crime and reforming one of the most socialized and thus sickest economies in Europe is simply a racist speaking code for "get the Muslims." Obviously, Sarkozy's words mean whatever YOU know they REALLY mean, rather than what he actually says.
And am I suppose to take it as evidence of Sarkozy's evil that some retards have been defacing his posters with Hitler moustaches?
2 - jayson
And that's the weakest excuse for an objection that I've heard...well, recently. There are links to his speeches in this article. If you can't read or speak French, then sorry. There's no claim in this piece that hitler mustaches are evidence that he's a racist or fascist, but no one's doing that to any other candidate but Le Pen. Makes one wonder. I've also gone over each newscast during the riots of 2005 and read several interviews with the man. His race card is sometimes just that, code, that everyone knows, but in France is hard to speak in political discourse because the State does not record statistics on race, due to laws after that practice under the Nazis in WW II. Other times he speaks specifically about muslims--it's hardly a conspiracy theory I'm offering. One is limited by the number of words publishable in these spaces. But I'm sure someone as bright as you knows all this, and I'm just wasting my time. Sorry. And thanks so much for your corrections.
3 - Al Barger
I'm not aware that there's any particular limit to the number of words you're allowed to use in a column. On verbose days, I've published articles here several times the length of this.
Or you could just wipe out a bunch of the meaningles ones you did use, and replace them with specific quotes and analysis. Telling me I'll just have to take your word for his racism if I don't speak French is not a very convincing argument.
Also, France has certainly had pretty much problem with rioting young Muslims. It's not a legitimate point of analysis to simply denounce any recognition of that fact as "racism." And you certainly ARE accusing Sarkozy of racism and fascism, of being Le Pen lite - "Islamophia coded as immigration, law and order"
4 - jayson
Go to the speeches I cited. Hire a translator if you're so bent on continuing to dispute me. When the main and repeated response you have to youth burning cars and schools in the banlieue is "law and order," "authority," "respect for the laws of the republic," when as I say ample evidence exists that a group of people of a certain culture and skin color is geographically quarantined, excluded from jobs for which some are equally qualified as those with non- Arab names, refused housing mysteriously even when they have references and steady jobs, and you do this in a climate of marked anxiety about this group (note the recent headscarf issue)and in a history you do not denounce even though the country's identity was partly based on the White Man's Burden (read some 19th century addresses by Jaures)--well then, you'll probably tell me that Wallace and Nixon's "law and order" and "state's rights" were not also coded appeals to racism, and there's really no point in arguing with you.
If you don't understand there are word limits, I suggest you write the editors. They'll be glad to tell you.
5 - Al Barger
Brother Harsin, it seems like you don't really have much specific complaint against this Sarkozy. It sounds as if you got some general idea that he is "right wing." Therefore, he must be an evil lying racist Nazi - just like our American Republicans.
We apparently should just understand that you have labeled him a "neo-Nazi" - and that settles it. Or I should hire a translator if I don't just accept your generalized assurances that he's BAD.
I'm considering adding a third option: That the author doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's just taking a cheap generic smear against a "right winger" with much particular knowledge. As you might guess, I'm leaning toward this latter interpretation.
However, if you want to convince anyone else of any of this, you need something considerably more specific. What exactly is he saying that is supposedly so "racist" or "neo-Nazi"? Also, are these supposedly "racist" statements true? Also, would truth be considered a legitimate defense against charges of racism, as it is against charges of slander? Enquiring minds want to know.
Jayson sez "ample evidence exists that a group of people of a certain culture and skin color is geographically quarantined, excluded from jobs for which some are equally qualified as those with non- Arab names."
Is this Sarkozy's fault? He's not an incumbent president seeking re-election. Also, how much of this is race, and how much is closed-off socialist economics just broadly excluding outsiders, much as early American unions excluded blacks? To the extent that the issues with the Muslims are because of economics and unemployment rather than internal cultural issues within their own community, a relative "right wing" candidate making even modest reforms to free the economy would seem likely to be their best help.
6 - D. Kahane Jr.
Shortly after the outbreak of riots in the suburbs around Paris, Nicolas Sarkozy, then Minister of the Interior, declared he would clean the streets of "racaille" (translation: "scum") with a Karcher (high-pressure water hose used for cleaning graffiti, bird shit and old gum). Now, let's not play games here and deny that anyone in the hexagon did not understand that the "racaille" he was speaking of had dark skin and lived in housing projects. Furthermore, he has never made any attempt to soften or qualify his statement in the thousands of interviews that have followed. This has been the slogan, more than anything else, that has defined his candidacy. He has added some further dimensions to his worldview by claiming in a recent interview that the behavior of homosexuals and kiddy fiddlers is genetically determined, an argument which, when applied to the "racaille" and taken to its logical conclusion...Well, you know the rest.
I would take issue with the idea that Sarkozy's brand of racism is "coded," though it is certainly true that the rules of the game necessitate some verbal gymnastics. But Al, your attempt to paint Sarko as a friend to the racialized underclass in France--as he writes, "a relative 'right wing' candidate making even modest reforms to free the economy"--is ideology rather than reason. If Al feels this way, the people Sarko is trying to help certainly don't. In fact, the most recent poll taken among Muslim voters revealed that a mere 1% intend to vote for him in the second round. And this is the man who attempted to befriend (and co-opt) the Muslim "community" by promoting the organization of France's first Muslim representative body.
Two other facts should be considered in any evaluation of how Sarko will "help" the french underclass. First as Minister of the Interior, he did away with the "police de proximite" (translation: local beat cops), a move that has made the French suburban police into an army of occupation. Second, as Mayor of the ritzy city of Neuilly, Sarko systematically refused to fulfill the city's legal obligation to construct a small percentage of low-income housing, choosing instead to pay the fines incurred by such actions. Now, what conclusion would you draw from this, Al?
Finally, there is the immigration question. Now, are you going to tell us, Al, that the decision of Sarko to propose the creation of a Minister of Immigration and National Identity has nothing to do with racial politics.
7 - jayson
Monsieur Barger,
I love your string of red herrings in your refusal to actually take on burdens of rejoinder in debate. As I said, nowhere in this article is a claim that Sarko is a neo-Nazi--no need for the exaggeration. Do you or do you not understand the analogy to the Southern Strategy of Republicans in the U.S. after Wallace and Nixon in 68? Do you or do you not agree with the testimony and scholarship demonstrating the use of racial (racist?) code words to appeal essentially to racist voters? Do you or do you not understand that "law and order" and "security" and "youth" in the context of violence and crime in France refers to people of a certain skin color with some different cultural practices? Do you or do you not understand that crime, violence, security, "law and order" are major issues in this election? Do you or do you not understand that if these are the issues, it is beside the point to ask whether Sarko created the conditions in the banlieue or whether socialist economic problems did? Do you or do you not understand that there are well-documented cases by the organization S.O.S. Racisme that show there is serious discrimination, which many people would call "racist," in housing, and job hiring? Do you know anything about the process of policy argument and proposals, identifying a problem, posing solutions, showing how your solution is better than others, and that it will work? Do you or do you not understand what colonialism was and the problems posed by its historical legacy in the "mother countries?" Do you understand what Reconciliation is, for example, in places like S. Africa? Do you think that historical race problems in countries can simply be solved by appeals to law and order and more police and harder sentences? Do you or do you not understand that if you are being interpreted as being a racist, you have to do more than just say "I'm not a racist; that's ridiculous." Or "I'm for France, not racism!" Your ad hominems that I know nothing about the events or issues and that this is just a mean-spirited attack on the Right in France are not going to convince many people that I'm not upholding my argumentative duty. Did you read part II of these two articles on the French elections, the second being more specifically about Sarko? My guess is...
8 - Al Barger
Jayson - You did use the "neo-Nazi" label in the very title of your previous post. That's where I got that. You're hollering about "ad hominem" attacks when it's nothing of the kind. You might be a fine fellow - but you're STILL not making any REAL specific criticism of Sarkozy.
Instead, your best shot is this general point - still not based on any specific quotes: Do you or do you not understand that "law and order" and "security" and "youth" in the context of violence and crime in France refers to people of a certain skin color with some different cultural practices?
I don't intend particularly to defend Sarkozy. I don't know much about him. But that statement is not in the least going to convince me that he's the least bit bad. The French do seem to be having serious issues with violent crime and out of control youth.
That the violent rioting dangerous criminal schmucks are Muslim does not make Sarkozy racist. How figure? Or is it that because they're poor oppressed Muslims he should let them be and politely ignore the problem, because it's racist to want to stop burning and pillaging?
Then you get off on completely irrelevant nonsense about "colonialism," as if Sarkozy was responsible for that or as if that was the reason for 20 year old post-colonial immigrants running amok. Do you or do you not understand what colonialism was and the problems posed by its historical legacy in the "mother countries?"
Mostly, when I hear phrases about the "historical legacy of colonialism," my ears glaze over. That pretty much just seems to be racist code for "white man BAD." Sometimes they are or have been, but I fail to see how it has a damned thing to do with Sarkozy. You need something more than largely meaningless catch phrases from academia to establish the point.
Do you know anything about the process of policy argument and proposals, identifying a problem, posing solutions, showing how your solution is better than others, and that it will work? No I don't. I'm just a dumb Kentuckian, so you'll have to educate me with some of your French sophistication. Trying to glean some educational insight from your comments, apparently that process consists of figuring out who you don't like and calling them a Nazi.
It certainly doesn't seem to include any particular proposals for fixing anything, nor even naming any specific proposals of this Sarkozy that you object to. About the most specific thing I can get out of anything in this is that Sarkozy is supposedly a racist because he seems to blame the rioting on the Muslim youth who are actually burning cars and rioting and such. There might be more to it than that, but that does seem like the natural place to put blame.
But then, that attitude probably just proves that I'm a neo-Nazi.
A small literary suggestion: Breaking up those big black blocks of copy into smaller bite-size paragraphs might make them easier to digest.
9 - Al Barger
D Kahane- Thank you for joining this discussion. I got more of at least beginning clues about actual facts and issues in France from your comment 6 than I did out of Brother Harsin's article and comments.
I'm sure Sarkozy has zilch support among the Muslim population. Angry Muslims are certainly not going to support any kind of Western "conservative" of any kind - even if it might actually be in their own interest.
But you give me at least some hint of a specific complaint about Sarkozy doing away with beat cops. That doesn't sound helpful, but that still doesn't sound like much real explanation. What does that mean exactly? Are you saying that you've got riots because Sarkozy has implemented the wrong type of police patrols?
as Mayor of the ritzy city of Neuilly, Sarko systematically refused to fulfill the city's legal obligation to construct a small percentage of low-income housing, choosing instead to pay the fines incurred by such actions. Now, what conclusion would you draw from this, Al?
The conclusion I would draw from that argument is that you think that your Muslims are rioting because France doesn't spend enough on the welfare state. I won't make too much judgment on that as I don't really know much about the specifics. However, France has the general reputation for being one of the most heavily socialized welfare states in Europe - so that definitely rings hollow.
A lot of this for you and Monsieur Harsin seems to be looking for every kind of way to blame Sarkozy for Muslim violence and hostilities on the basis of "racism." I haven't seen anything so far that seems like much of a convincing argument that way.
Perhaps y'all might consider placing some of the responsibility for the violence and hostility on the people who are being violent and hostile. Now maybe some of the perhaps negative attitude towards the Muslim community is based on prejudice - judgments not based on facts, but just hating them for being different. Then again, maybe your Muslims have EARNED some of this negative attitude by, say, rioting and burning and being hostile.
Plus, Muslim problems aside, France surely has other political issues. I don't have numbers at hand, but I get the general impression that you have one of the weakest, sickest and - not co-incidentally - most socialized economies in the Western world.
Again, not knowing Sarkozy's platform, I'd guess that the "right wing" candidate would likely be proposing at least some marginal pro-market reforms. You might have specific arguments against such things, but in a general "ideological" way that seems likely to be your best medicine.
Finally, a note on "ideology." I certainly have some general belief systems that tend to inform my thinking. Thus, I have "ideologies" - like any human. I do try to carefully let observed facts override my general beliefs - though I'm sure I'm not always successful in that. But don't think that all your and Jayson's efforts to paint Sarkozy as a "racist" are NOT your own ideologies at work.
10 - jayson
Al,
Where is "neo-nazi" in "the title of your [my] previous post?" I mentioned his posters had been defaced with a Hitler mustache. You're the one carrying on about neo-Nazis (even to the point of suggesting I or others would claim you are one if you don't agree with me/us--that's a bit much), and for which rhetorical effect is quite obvious.
Did you read Part II? "Sarkozy's French "Law and Order""? There are several quotes by him there about his authoritarianism, which some call his "fascism." It is of no use to cite soundbites of "law and order" here. You don't seem to understand the analysis of race in language. I do not mean that he is the French equivalent of the KKK towards arabs. This article, is really not about Sarkozy as a questionable racist or fascist. It's about the candidate's attempts to claim consubstantiation with the nation and about how slogans on posters are everywhere, but no one knows what the policies of these people are (at least not without a fair amount of digging).
Many people will say things that have racist implications (meaning the characteristics are essentially applied to all members of the group and usually because of their skin color or DNA), but they have no coherent program for the systematic subordination of a people. That's not what we're talking about.
You can carry on about how you haven't learned anything from my responses to you because I don't give you quotes, but you don't even respond to the points I make. For example, I say that your comment about Sarkozy not being responsible for conditions in the suburbs or for colonialism is a red herring. No one's saying he's responsible for that. The question is what is he going to do with this problem that has become one of race? When a pattern exists regarding a skin color and culture of people, as I've said, with housing, job hiring,even media representations, that pattern is referred to as racist. Just Google "SOS Racisme" and I'm sure you'll find the British press giving you all the quotes you want.
So what's the point in giving you more? This will be the last time I try and engage you.
Of course everyone is positioned in ideologies (if by that you mean particular ways of seeing the world, often ones that are not chosen but absorbed through family, media, school, other social institutions). But that shouldn't have a place in honest public argument. Otherwise, we just disagree based on suspicion and dislike for the other based on their religion, party membership, or music they listen to. Spare me your rhetoric about neo-Nazis, French sophistication, and dumb Kentuckians. I'm a dumb Kansan. Who cares? What's the claim? What's the evidence? That's all that matters. I have no problem with you questioning the claims, but the paths your reasoning takes, as I try to show above, make no sense.
11 - Al Barger
Jayson - My apologies. Your previous post did not have "neo-Nazi" in the title. It was "neo-fascist" in the sub-title headline. I was a little off there - but it's the same point.
Jayson sez: When a pattern exists regarding a skin color and culture of people, as I've said, with housing, job hiring, even media representations, that pattern is referred to as racist. That's a complete presumption. That pattern might be "referred to as racist," but that doesn't for a second mean that it is. Those patterns might be because of bad white male oppressors - or they might be because of the inadequacies of the under represented group.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go buy some bait so I can go fishing for some more of those red herrings.
12 - d. kahane jr.
Just one more thing, Al. Judging by the Israeli flag on your web page and your talk of group "inadequacies," I am going to hazard the guess that you have it in for Muslims. Isn't the underlying idea in all your comments that cultural (or is it racial?) "inadequacies" should be highlighled to explain why black and North African youths in France riot and perpetrate crimes, and that these explanations are constantly denied by "liberals" (like Jayson) who want us to believe that the forces of racism and economic marginalization are to blame.
Just a simple question (no animosity behind it, really): when you make such arguments about group "inadequacies," does it ever occur to you that Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s were making very similar arguments about Jews?
13 - Calvin
I have read these comments carefully. Al Barger has made his points more convincingly than either Kahane or Jayson. Just a simple example of the unthinkingness underpinning Jayson and Kahanes' ideas: Kahane says, "when you make such arguments about group "inadequacies," does it ever occur to you that Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s were making very similar arguments about Jews?" How about the arguments you are implying about French "inadequacies" for their (as you say) racism. Isn't this just a broad stroke, a negative stereotype, against the white people of France in general? We have the same "debate" in the United States. White people are made scapegoats for every problem of minorities. Demanding that blacks or hispanics take responsibility for their actions and their lives is looked down upon as mean spirited. Even mentioning that blacks commit more violent crime will brand you a racist. This results in more handouts to minorities, but does not really improve the situation. There are 30 million blacks in the US. This is a lot of heavy lifting for whites who are trying to lift blacks up out of poverty. It is much easier to help improve people when they are prepared to carry most of their own weight.
14 - Al Barger
Brother Kahane sez: I am going to hazard the guess that you have it in for Muslims.
No, not at all. A lot of Muslims do, however, have it in for US - and I'm not going to deny that or pussyfoot around it for fear of being called "racist." Nor am I going to bend over backwards and twist reason into a pretzel to try to be "fair" to the Palestinians. Pretty near entirely, they're wrong and Israel is right. When they start drawing Israel into their maps, and stop murdering Israelis - THEN I'll start to considering the possible merits of some of their claims.
Germans might have SAID that Jews were evil and and so forth - but they were simply WRONG. German Jews in the 1930s were simply not acting like Hamas. There's no legitimate comparison.
In a general sense, I'm less than impressed with the Muslim community in the world today - but that's obviously an extremely broad statement. There are certainly plenty of perfectly nice folks of Muslim heritage just trying to make a living and raise their kids. I try to assume the best of every individual on a case by case basis until or unless they screw it up.
As to Muslims in France today, I don't make real strong detailed judgments, on the grounds of not knowing near enough to do so. However, when I see rioting and burning, I'd be inclined to squash it hard without regard to their ethnicity. If some of our crackers here in this nearly all white Franklin county Indiana were burning cars and looting, I'd probably shoot a couple of them my damned self. Rioters being Muslim wouldn't cause me to be more accepting of such behavior.
Which is not to say that white Frenchmen are perfect and blameless and couldn't do anything better. Again, on the basis of my scant knowledge, I could imagine reasonable feelings of exclusion from Muslims. My prescription, again, would be more economic liberalization - tax cuts and free market reforms in labor laws. To whatever extent that Muslim unrest is due to economic frustration, a freer, more fluid and thus more prosperous economy would be the best medicine. Not that I'm expecting to see Muslim youth waving copies of The Wealth of Nations in the streets.
In short, I'm certainly willing to consider inadequacies by French natives. But Jayson here is just willfully blind to any idea that the rioters bear responsibility for rioting. It just strikes me as foolish and counterproductive to blame everybody but the actual obvious bad actors. And I obviously have little patience for calling someone a "neo-fascist" because they want to stop people from rioting.
Calvin- thank you for your kind words of support. I'll just add that there are a lot of white folks on welfare as well, and welfare dependency doesn't really ultimately benefit them much either.
15 - alessandro nicolo
Didn't the failing of Muslim integration in France come under the watch of the socialists?
16 - Baronius
Like Al, I didn't come away from this article with an understanding of the French election. The author uses language that made me believe he was lumping all non-socialists together as "the right". Reaganism, fascism, monarchy, whatever. The Right in Europe means any number of different, opposing ideologies.
I also got the impression that the author was trying to cushion against a Sarkozy victory. In the US, we are often urged to follow the leadership of the progressive European community on issues from gay marriage and euthanasia to Iraq and Kyoto. A sharp move to the "right" in Europe would embarrass the American left. This article seems to be saying, don't listen to the election results, French voters are stupid and easily persuaded by posters. (The American voter is often criticized similarly.)
17 - Calvin
Thank you Al Barger for your thoughtful commments. I didn't intend to imply that white people are all saints or that blacks are all in need of public assistance. But the political debate in the United States runs right along the racial fault line. For example, no one would really get worked up if I criticized white people for being on welfare. Amazingly, "white trash" is not a phrase that someone would generally be criticized for using publicly. The pressure to suppress thinking only arrises when one talks frankly about any problem that overlaps with race. When blacks or other other lower performing groups are brought up for discussion, otherwise well-meaning and intelligent people seem to turn off their brains to constructive criticism. Anything negative said about blacks produces the reflexive response among liberals and many conservatives that the speaker is a racist, or worse. This is a serious problem that needs to be brought up and discussed openly so that people can get beyong their paralysis and begin thinking again.
18 - Al Barger
Baronius was getting pretty much the same thing out of the article I did. It was basically a very generalized broadside against anything that might be labeled "rightwing." But exactly because of that rhetoric, I become skeptical of exactly what is meant when the evil "neo-fascist" Sarkozy is accused of "anti-immigrant and pro-nationalist rhetoric."
19 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I would suggest that another self serving comment by a French king is à propos here. "Apre moi, la deluge"
If Sarkozy doesn't get elected, that is what France faces - une deluge islamique.
Start dipping those baguettes in Humus, folks...
20 - Zedd
Calvin
There are 30 million blacks in the US. This is a lot of heavy lifting for whites who are trying to lift blacks up out of poverty
Stop with the insults and delusions.
There are 7mil poor Blacks 15mil poor non Hispanic Whites.
White TRASH is an awful way to desgnate a class. It makes my stomach turn. I wish you the best of luck in life :o)
Al
Kudos for clarifying things with Calvin. That is huge!! Those insults can be exhausting to face. Thank you.
21 - STM
the real worry here is not sarkozy, but the fact le pen has 10 per cent of the vote.
22 - STM
"Start dipping those baguettes in Humus, folks..."
Start?
Actually, that's not a bad thing that one.
23 - Al Barger
THE DEMONISATION OF SARKOSY
Zedd- I think you're reading too much into Calvin's comments there. Also, if we're going to be onto people for being on the public teat, poor folks on welfare are only part of it - white, black or other. The corporate farms pull down HUGE chunks of public money, and about a bazillion other types of corporate welfare as well. I'm a lot crappier over a sugar farmer with a million dollar federal subsidy than a welfare mom getting a couple hundred bucks a month in food stamps.
24 - m. d. kahane jr.
well, we see that al is suddenly manifesting multiple personality disorder. ruvy in jerusalem is obviously not an an israeli since no israeli in their right mind would attribute humus to North African Muslims.
the discussion about france by al and his "friends" in this string is so inane and so misinformed that it hardly merits a response.
just one last thing before al's multiple personalities come out of the closet again to applaud his brilliance.
when you are making the tow-the-party-line arguments about free market reforms, reduced government spending, and the white man's tax burden for black "inadequacies," you should consider just for a moment the very wide disparity between what the American people have paid to support welfare programs from what they have doled out for such ill-conceived Republican projects as star wars, the deregulation of the savings and loan banks (ah yes, remember this fiasco?), the deregulation of the stock market (i.e. Enron), and the War in Iraq.
they got you all huffing and puffing about welfare and racial problems, as they manage to redistribute wealth upward, to the few, away from you and the people you know i imagine. it's crony capitalism and as mortgage foreclosures in los angeles increase by 800%, you free market boosters will soon have some time to reflect on the wisdom of the reforms you propose.
25 - jayson
Al,
Neo-fascist and Neo-Nazi are not "the same point." You know that.
Al says: "That pattern might be 'referred to as racist,' but that doesn't for a second mean that it is. Those patterns might be because of bad white male oppressors - or they might be because of the inadequacies of the under represented group."
Al, sorry you seem to misunderstand what I've said. Plenty of experiments have been done in France with resumes that are identical in qualifications except for names, traditional French ones and obvious Arab ones. Guess who overwhelmingly got interviews? The same is true for applications for housing/rentals. It has nothing to do with white males; in fact, this sentiment appears to encompass large numbers of the white French population, men and women.
Calvin writes: "Isn't this just a broad stroke, a negative stereotype, against the white people of France in general? We have the same "debate" in the United States. White people are made scapegoats for every problem of minorities."
Well, no, Calvin. Here you're introducing a claim into our discussion/debate and attributing it to Kahane and me. I'm not sure why you'd do that. I'm sure you didn't mean to do so. IN fact, NOONE said "the white people of France in general." The fact is that enough of them have acted in a way to form a pattern. It's simple inductive reasoning from repetitive examples.perhaps start with this BBC article
Okay. Let me try to address your (sorry I don't have time to deal with Calvin and Al's comments separately; if Baronius actually wants to make some logical arguments I'm happy to engage him)comments in points.
1. You don’t respond to the claim that race coded language was, it is well-documented through first hand confessions, a successful strategy of the American Republican party beginning with Wallace/Nixon and running through Reagan, perhaps to the present. The analogy is with Sarkozy’s language that attempts to attract voters from Le Pen, a man who has made a researcher on the problem writes : “For the younger generations, ethnicity primarily signifies an experience of difference and discrimination (racism, social exclusion) simultaneous with the loss of cultural identity. In other words: even though the lifestyle of second-generation immigrants in France may have little to do with an “Arab” or “Algerian” way of living, they are constantly made aware of their background in the form of the stigma they experience in their day-to-day interactions. In effect, these young people are victims of the “post-colonial syndrome,” in which an Arab or Muslim background becomes a symbol overdetermined with all the negative imagery built up over decades of colonialism. In this way, social marginalization is also consistently reinforced by cultural inequality.
This cultural inequality translates to institutionalized discrimination in areas such as housing, employment, educational opportunities, and political representation.”
A fear of Islamic terrorism is understandable in a Post-9/11 world where attacks have followed elsewhere. But there is little evidence that these youth in France have any connection to radical Islam at all! Many of these youth listen to American hiphop and imitate the dress of that culture as well. I imagine they don’t like Bush, but then few people do in Europe. According to polls, only Poland, across the entire continent, would’ve voted for his re-election. That concern about islam voiced in some of the posts here is out of place.
5. No one is asking the “White man” to pull up an entire population of blacks, as you misrepresent this situation with straw arguments. One is asking the white French to pull himself/herself up morally. When people have the same qualifications for jobs (we’re not talking about affirmative action) and they have arab and black African names, then they should be given the same interview opportunities as people with names like Dubrois. Same goes for housing. Similar problems with quality of schooling. Economic misery in their areas,etc.
6. Lastly, there’s the issue touched on above that arab and black youth feel and perceive exclusion and hate toward them in French society, even though most of these youth were born there. Recently a major French soccer player has come out publicly in opposition to Sarkozy because he considers Sarkozy’s language to be preying upon racial hatred (which makes Sarkozy racist even if he’s not calling for the systematic annihilation or enslavement of arabs and blacks). Maghreb youth are frequently quoted in the French and international press on the issue of their alienation. Here’s one from a BBC article: “France, unlike Britain, tries to keep religion out of public life. Everyone is supposed to be equal, regardless of cultural background.
Try telling that to Ali, who is 24 and unemployed.
"France has betrayed the young people of the suburbs. When you're called Ali you can't get a job. The French don't accept Islam. Politicians promise us mosques and so on, but at the same time they smear us and call us terrorists."
Again, the question is what will a statesman/woman do to heal this situation? Sarkozy and Le Pen are volatile. There are more diplomatic and respectful ways to reconcile the situation, which will take years.
But hey, this is all just a bunch of puffery to cover up the fact that I’m anti-white. Would be hilarious if some weren’t implying it so seriously.