Well, his response was quickly corrected by Palin: “The chant is drill baby drill, that’s what we hear all across at our rallies.” She seemed to relish repeating those words, but the Ohio voters did not approve of that outburst. Mark Levin warned us to expect some stupid spouting from Biden; was this an example of what he meant? Or was it the fact that Biden used the term “fair” many times when juxtaposing the liberal laws enacted to protect the middle class.
That Cloying Sound
Rather than being the diabetic nightmare full of over-the-top sweetness, Sarah was sedate but robotic in her responses. It’s strange how she appeared to be reading from a teleprompter even though she was not. So it appears that throughout she was memorizing lines and then regurgitating them.
On an Iraq exit strategy, Palin offered, “Your plan is a white flag of surrender on Iraq. We will know when we are finished in Iraq when they can govern themselves.” She also flagged Biden on wanting to run on the Obama ticket, meaning that he supported the cut-and-run approach. She also went there: “You also said that Barack Obama was not ready to be commander-in-chief.” Her polling went down.
Biden's rejoinder: “John McCain voted to cut off funds to the troops ... John McCain has been dead wrong concerning the fundamentals of this war.” Biden received high marks from the undecided voters the entire time he talked tough on foreign affairs. Palin’s response: a sing-song “they [terrorists] hate America.” Her voice trailed up on “hate.” Biden nailed it with “John McCain won’t even sit down with Spain.”
Biden had much to say on the Mideast under Bush: “The only thing on the march is Iran… You must back Israel in letting them negotiate and not insist on policies of this administration."
Palin began her rebuttal: “I am so glad we both love Israel,” and ended with “change is coming.” It was a reminder that the McCain/Palin ticket has usurped the change mantel.
Ifill: "What should be the trigger when nuclear weapon use is ever put into play?"
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dr Dreadful
From what I've seen of her performance so far, Palin almost reminds me of Dan Quayle... except that Quayle, for all his endearing gaffes, actually had some experience of world and particularly Washington politics - something about which Palin appears to be disturbingly clueless.
2 - jamminsue
Heloise: A very good article, and quite reassuring.
I found Palin's comment that she wasn't going to answer the questions asked, but speak directly to the American People about who and what she is about. This shows a disdain for rules, politeness and just how lacking in substance she is. Much like the current President, I would think. I doubt many want a repeat of that kind of attitude.
We had a President like that, whose initials were RR, and look where that got us - the economic situation we are in now is the long-term legacy. I remember a friend telling me "but he has excellent advisors" when I pointed out the lack of substance. I was totally shocked and did not know how to counteract such myopia, and still don't.
3 - Baritone
While Palin certainly did not fall on her face in the debate, neither did she distinguish herself with even one original thought or unrehearsed answer. She deftly steered away from topics of which she obviously had no knowledge. I suppose, were she on the U of Idaho debate team, she might have gotten a few points for that, but she's auditioning for a job as the fucking VP of our country. Is that what we want? Do we want a VP, or possibly a P who is unwilling or incapable of tackling certain subjects? There is nothing extraordinary about Sarah Palin. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence coupled with some experience at public discourse could have pulled off what she did Thursday evening.
She is totally ill equipped to handle the myriad of issues that could and likely would confront her as either VP or P. She has no depth nor breadth of knowledge of world affairs, history, economics and other domestic issues. She has no more than a superficial grasp of the whats, the whos, the whens or the wheres.
Obama has shown repeatedly and with alacrity that he does possess such knowledge. Palin may be a really cracker jack governor, but that hardly qualifies her for the national and international stage. Let her go back and lord over the caribou and the licensing of dog sleds and sled dogs. Alaska hardly serves as a microcosm of the U.S.
You betcha!
B
4 - DaveNalle
All of which raises the question of whether you'd rather have someone as VP who is perhaps a bit naive and inexperienced but well meaning, or someone who is deeply enmired in the culture of Washington and Wall Street corruption which most of us want to see curtailed.
Too often experience comes at the price of corruption, and while Biden is hardly the most corrupt figure in Washington, he's certainly more than sufficiently tainted.
Then there's the issue of the presidency. Again, your choice is between young and old, but in this case between young and ideologically corrupt and old and cantankerous and well intentioned. I'd rather take the old, angry and disgruntled guy than someone who was raised in a subculture which is fundamentally anti-american and who has walked hand in hand with some of the most dangerous and corrupt groups in the nation.
Dave
5 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
All of which raises the question of whether you'd rather have someone as VP who is perhaps a bit naive and inexperienced but well meaning, or someone who is deeply enmired in the culture of Washington and Wall Street corruption which most of us want to see curtailed.
Too often experience comes at the price of corruption, and while Biden is hardly the most corrupt figure in Washington, he's certainly more than sufficiently tainted.
Then there's the issue of the presidency. Again, your choice is between young and old, but in this case between young and ideologically corrupt and old and cantankerous and well intentioned. I'd rather take the old, angry and disgruntled guy than someone who was raised in a subculture which is fundamentally anti-american and who has walked hand in hand with some of the most dangerous and corrupt groups in the nation.
Dave
Nice spin. Not fooling anyone here.
6 - handyguy
Would Dave care to elaborate on who/what "subculture" he is referring to as "fundamentally anti-american" [with or without caps]? In context it could be read as including anyone whom Democrats have ever nominated for office, and/or anyone who holds any position to the left of Himself.
Democrats [hey, I'm one] are as fundamentally American as you are, bub. So are Community Organizers and, yes, peaceniks. You have no monopoly on freedom or the constitution.
If the above is not what you meant, try not pretending you are an oracle or a sphinx, and just speak plain English instead of obliquely accusing people of treason.
7 - DaveNalle
Handy, you're a regular mainstream democrat - or so I assume.
What I'm talking about is the marxist activist subculture which Obama comes from. His entire career has been in the extreme fringe of the left, who are Democrats only because they would not be politically viable if they admitted their socialist/communist objectives and associations.
Come on, Handy. Have you been to local Democrat party meetings? You know the folks I'm talking about. Surely you've seen the alinskyites and greenies and 'grassroots' movement types, whose objective is not a better America, but an entirely different kind of country and government occupying the same space.
Dave
8 - Baritone
Of course he means Willaim Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. This is the same crap that Tundra Barbie is now spewing in her stump speeches. By being coy though, Dave let's the reader's mind wander back to the even more ludicrous crap that Obama is a muslim trained in a medrasa and other bogus blather.
Curious, if Biden is so corrupt, why is it that he's not rich? Is he both corrupt and stupid as well?
The only "ideologically corrupt" part of Obama is that he isn't a conservative.
How is it that people believe McCain has not himself been corrupted by his long exposure to beltway politics? McCain has shown plainly that he is more than willing to sell his soul to win this election. He has tossed out all of his pre-campaign rhetoric about running a purely positive campaign. He has jumped head first into Rovian tactics, the same tactics used by the same people to savage him back in 2000. McCain may have been relatively clean back then. If so - and that's a big "if," that is no longer the case.
Also, McCain has shown that he not only has a short fuse, but is now obviously becoming more and more a loose cannon within his own campaign. Desparation is bringing out his penchant for incoherence and inconsistency. These are dangerous traits for someone seeking to have his itchy finger on the nuclear button.
And Palin? "naive and inexperienced but well meaning?" I fully agree with the "naive and inexperienced" part. Well meaning? How do we know that? Why are her motives considered to be any more honorable or less corrupt than any of the other candidates? Because she looks good? Palin is obviously highly ambitious, viciously aggressive, and it has been reported from numerous sources in Alaskan government that she is ruthless and unforgiving. If all that equals "well meaning" then, well, okay, uh, I guess.
B
9 - DaveNalle
Of course he means Willaim Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn.
Did I say that, Baritone? The Ayers/Dohrn connection is telling, but hardly significant compared to his years employed by the alinskyites at Project Vote, where his salary was paid by ACORN, or his later work as one of the many lawyers defending ACORN from prosecution for the mass of frauds they have committed, from obtaining federal funds on false pretenses, electoral fraud, tax evasion and racketeering.
I agree that that Obama is a Muslim bullshit is ridiculous, but the fact that Obama is part of the marxist fringe left is too well documented to laugh off.
Curious, if Biden is so corrupt, why is it that he's not rich? Is he both corrupt and stupid as well?
I would argue that yes, he is both corrupt and stupid. His stupidity is demonstrated almost every time he opens his mouth. His corruption is well documented in his dealings over his home - which makes up the greater part of his wealth - and was purchased with legally questionable support from credit card giant and massive campaign contributor MBNA. See this article.
Dave
10 - Franco
"Of course he means Willaim Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. This is the same crap that Tundra Barbie is now spewing in her stump speeches."
It aint crap old B-tone. There's lots more to this coverup story, which I recommend you read in full.
Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools
Founding Brothers
Barack Obama and Bill Ayers: Stanley Kurtz Makes the Connection
The real crap is this......
"just a guy I know who lives in my neighborhood."
11 - Franco
Oct 4, 2008 - NY Times Confirms Ayers' Role in Obama Appointment as Chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
The partial story of the Ayers/Obama relationship told by the New York Times today is collapsing of its own weight but has likely added to the confusion. Since I am one of the "bloggers" referred to without an explanation in the Times' story I thought I would summarize the top ten highlights of the current state of play.
See full summarization at the "blogger" link.
By Steve Diamond: Democrat, lawyer, political scientist and law professor.
You can also see his full archive of indepth work on Obama/Ayers at the same link.
12 - Franco
Baritone
I didn't chase you off did I?
13 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Oct 4, 2008 - NY Times Confirms Ayers' Role in Obama Appointment as Chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
The partial story of the Ayers/Obama relationship told by the New York Times today is collapsing of its own weight but has likely added to the confusion. Since I am one of the "bloggers" referred to without an explanation in the Times' story I thought I would summarize the top ten highlights of the current state of play.
See full summarization at the "blogger" link.
By Steve Diamond: Democrat, lawyer, political scientist and law professor.
You can also see his full archive of indepth work on Obama/Ayers at the same link.
BIGWOOPTEEDOO. Ayers had at his disposal tens of millions of dollars. If I was Barack Obama and I were looking to reform Chicago schools I would be a MORON to not apply for the position. The fact that Ayers declined to disapprove of the Obama choice means nothing, even if the series of events is exactly as described. The fact still remains Ayers controlled 10s of millions of dollars of grant money for an organization looking to improve education. Obama was the man for the job. The fact that the Bill Ayers agreed with this doesn't mean squat. Even the sick and twisted logic of a terrorist like Bill Ayers can make good decisions. It is POSSIBLE believe it or not to agree with improving education and DISSAPROVE of terrorist bombings. This is just another attempt at guilt by association. I don't really care who Obama knew or whose feet he licked to get a foot in Chicago politics. I care what Obama did and what he advocated for. If you can find Obama advocating for terrorism.. then I would take you seriously.. but good luck with that!
The irony is Obama is being held guilty for joining a group to help CHILDREN READ.
14 - Baritone
Dave,
"Did I say that, Baritone?"
Yes, you have.
Interesting that all of the articles both you and Franco cite are written by and for conservatives and conservative organizations. Hardly unbiased reporting.
The CAC characterization as being "radical" is bogus. Is it left wing? Yes. Are about 99% of all fundamental religious schools in this country right wing? Yes. Inculcating young children into right wing politics is fine. Doing so from the left is "radical." What bullshit.
Gosh, Biden's house increased in value? Why that low life son of a bitch! What pains that article went to in order to provide nothing more than innuendo. Why don't we all sit down and see just how much McCain's 7 or 10 or 85 homes have faired over the years. Of course, McCain is more or less sheltered in that regard because his wife has more money than god. How many Senators do you suppose live less well than the Bidens? If that's the best you guys have got, you got nothing.
And, Biden is hardly stupid. He wins his elections, Dave. How about you?
And, no Franco, you didn't scare me off. I have a life.
B
15 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
The Ayers/Dohrn connection is telling, but hardly significant compared to his years employed by the alinskyites at Project Vote, where his salary was paid by ACORN, or his later work as one of the many lawyers defending ACORN from prosecution for the mass of frauds they have committed, from obtaining federal funds on false pretenses, electoral fraud, tax evasion and racketeering.
1) Sure ACORN is radical. But they're hardly evil. They have rebuilt 1,850 homes in New Orleans. That's more than Ray Nagin can say.
2) Being paid by ACORN to do a get out the vote campaign is hardly a winning point. Obama was working to get out the vote. Sure some people in ACORN are radical, especially its high level leaders, but on a community scale it's mostly just disgruntled residents, none of home have a serious political ideology, never mind reading anything about Marx.
3) You know Obama had nothing to do with defending against voter registration frauds. If you had any evidence of this you would have given it. A just read an NRO article by Kurtz. He has no evidence of it either. This accusation is a flat out lie. Most of the voter registration frauds you are talking about occur outside the time Obama part time as a lawyer and none occurred in his area and he certainly did not defend or attempt to defend them in court. That's a load of horse **** and you know it. Shame on you Dave.
I agree that that Obama is a Muslim bullshit is ridiculous, but the fact that Obama is part of the marxist fringe left is too well documented to laugh off.
Yeah if going to Harvard or any other college these days makes you a member of the marxist fringe. I'm afraid you're confusing the socio-economic theories of Karl Marx with community activism to get rid of asbestos in schools. The two seem entirely unrelated to me.
16 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Even Kurtz - a radical right wing writer for NRO - agrees that Obama was just about the only man for the job in Chicago. The fact that Bill Ayers declined to express his disapproval means SQUAT. God you people are desperate.
17 - Clavos
So, is Kurtz voting for BHO?
Neither am I.
18 - Doug Hunter
Same old story. If McCain had worked closely with an organization or person linked to some racist killing or the KKK in the 60's who hadn't repented well 'that'd be different'. The left team would be squawking up a storm and Nalle et al would be playing it down.
The most striking thing I've noticed here reading comments at blogcritics is the apparent inability for partisans on either side to put themselves in the shoes of the other. I don't know whether that is contrived or people really are just that closed minded. I suppose it's easier to to assume the other team's position is based on desperation, evil, greed, jealousy or some other character fault thereby obviating the need to address it intellectually.
19 - Cannonshop
#18 Doug, most Obama supporters can't identify his record when challenged. The CAC thing, for instance-nominally intended to help children read, it didn't do the job after sixty million dollars were spent. The records on HOW that sixty million were spent have been witheld-one wonders where it went. (ACORN maybe?)
Ayers is unrepentant and only failed to be convicted due to prosecutorial screw ups relating to a wiretapping warrant that got the evidence thrown out-this is NOT exhonoration, it's simply getting away with it in public, and then being smart enough to avoid getting caught AGAIN.
A Republican with ties to violent radicals would be simply unelectable-not even Republicans would vote for him, (y'see, the Right doesn't lionize their violent, domestic terrorist fuck-heads as heroes, there is no equivalent of Bill Ayers on the right... WE cheered when McVey was put in the execution chamber, rather than trying to defend him as a vanguard.)
Obama gets a pass.
20 - Heloise
You bad, bad bloggers, better stop the Palin-bashing because just this morning according to Morning Joe "Palin is a very, very bright woman." And Pat B. thinks she is sheer genius. Why? Because she will get up to speed, just like our Hillary in a few months! They were analyzing the debate. And yes we should get a few linguists to analyze her style.
PS: If you want to read an excellent writer who wrote about the Buckley/Phaget connection read a NYT article by Diane McWhorter. I will post link later, but you can google it. Spelling on the guy's name, not sure, but RFK Jr also wrote about this guy whom Palin quoted in her acceptance speech. He is a rabid, rabid rascist. Kinda like me--just kidding.
Sarah Palin comparison to Hillary.
Heloise
21 - Lisa Solod Warren
Ah, Diane is a very good friend of mine.... her stuff is always right on!
(PS I wrote about the racist RFK wrote about, too...check my piece:))
22 - troll
...calling Ayers a terrorist for blowing up a statue and smashing up some cars and storefronts (and then watching his compadres blow themselves the fuck up) is quite Hooveresque - it all took place in the context of Vietnam and COINTELPRO
you want to see terror - ?
look at the faces of Vietnamese villagers after a bombing in pictures from that government sanctioned slaughter
23 - Cannonshop
#22
Troll, it was a WAR, and wars are horrible for anyone in the war-zone. Don't you find it kinda-sorta-interesting that over a million Vietnamese had to (Felt the need to)escape from their "liberators" coming down from the North (and that's only the ones that had the ability to flee, not the ones that wanted to, but were too far from exit-points, or lacked the necessary resources, physical ability, sneakiness, or friends-willing-to-aid-them).
Ayers and his ilk succeeded in pressuring the U.S. to abandon an ally in exchange for a "Peace of Paper" in true Chamberlain fashion, after another Democrat (LBJ) set the course of the war by crippling said ally's ability to govern themselves (Supporting the overthrow of Ngo Dinh Diem's elected government, exchanging them for Generals who would play ball), then restricting support in such a way that the PRVN to the north had a free in-ward flow of arms from the Soviet Union (the bombing missions hit rice paddies and villages in the rural areas, instead of the docks and warehouses where the arms were coming in).
24 - troll
...and then the commies took over the world
fucking weathermen
25 - Ruvy
I ran into an interesting article today on Obama and a fellow named Saul Alinsky. This link is just one example of the 63,000 that one could have picked on the subject. Had I truly believed in overthrowing the American government, Saul Alinsky would have been the fellow I would have followed. He was contemptuous of the New (now the Aging, Arthritic and Loony) Left with all their bullshit about this "liberation" and that "liberation", their loose sexual morals, their drug use, etc. etc. Alinsky was a serious revolutionary who meant to overthrow the society he lived in. He was, in essence, what Lenin would have been had he never left the Café Internationale in Vienna. I honestly hadn't known until today that Obama was a disciple and student of Alinsky. But I do now.
So now we see the shades of "Lenin at the Finland Station". In other words, while Obama is the best candidate for Israel (for the reason that he would inspire the overthrow of the shmucks here who are mere puppets of the United States), he is the worst possible candidate for the United States.
While Russia is no longer "communist", it is still an enemy of your country (and mine) and Obama will deliver you into the hands of the Russians, slowly but surely, if elected. Putin is an unreconstructed Russian imperialist, but the totalitarian ideology he follows is very much to the liking of 'New left" types, no matter how they prattle on about "liberation" and roll fourth generation joints.
Mind you, I still prefer Obama to McCain. I have my country to worry about. But you in Yankee-land, if you have any brains at all - do not want the likes of Barak Obama trying to run your country.